709 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabariel]

Link3521 wrote...

Sabariel wrote...


Yeah, I don't believe peace could or would ever override the near millennia of bitterness that has built up. As for Greagoir, he's perfectly okay with annulling Irving and the other mages despite the fact that they are not even compromised. He "cares"... but only to a point.

I think that's being a bit unfair to Gregoir, he's clearly conflicted about using the right of annulment, and he's clearly relieved when he sees Irving is well, but when you first get to the tower he's lost all hope of any survivors and so he chose what he thought was the only option.

I'm speaking of afterward, when you rescue Irving and bring him to Greagoir.  Greagoir doesn't protest against  or prevent the annulment of an innocent man. So, again, he "cares", but only to a certain point.

[Esoj16]

Iecerint wrote...

Link3521 wrote...

I guess I just think people like MLK and Gandhi accomplished sooo much more than any act of terrorism ever could, so I tend to admire their actions and views and try to find peaceful resolutions to issues, I do this with the admitedly few issues in my life and I always roleplay the goody two-shoes for my cannon character.

Orsino had been openly attempting that since at least the start of Act 3.  The Mother "defused" the situation.

Orsino was.....yeah.....he hid Quentin from justice, I can't see how that's attempting to find a peaceful solution, imo he should've turned him in and show Meredith that mages can police themselves and are responsible enough to not endanger the lives of common people.  He did just the opposite of that, he showed mages can't be trusted.  Thankfully not all mages are like that  like Bethany.

[Rinji the Bearded]

I think the beauty of this story is this: No one is correct. You pick your sides, make your decisions, and stick to your guns to get the full effect.

[Esoj16]

MorningBird wrote...

Just because someone agrees with Anders actions in a video game does not mean they must support/condone 'terrorism' in our modern day world. The world we live in now is vastly different than the world of 100--or even 50--years ago. Our views on what is 'moral' and 'unjustifyable' have changed.

Let's not forget that once upon a time, cutting off a child's hands for THEFT was considered a fit punishment for the crime, and that medieval warfare once targeted rural towns and villages where many 'innocent' lives were lost in the name of greed and conquest.

DA is a medieval fantasy role-play game. That being said, it's perfectly acceptable for a player to judge the events in the game by 'medieval' standards (the standards of the setting) without holding the same 'standards' to the modern era.

I agree with what Anders did because I accept that the game takes place in a different world, in a different time, and that the 'modern expectations' I've set in place for our world may not apply to Thedas in it's current state or time.

Implying that someone supports terrorism in the real world simply because they feel a video game character's actions (in a completely different time and place than our own) were justified, and that they have a 'ghastly take' on what happened, is ludicrous.

That actually makes some sense, but I still disagree simply because the people I'm talking about aren't the ones saying that Anders' actions were necessary, which I disagree with them as well, but I'm talking about the people saying they would gladly help Anders, that's what's ghastly to me.

Edit: anyway I'm going to get off now since I have to study for some tests, I still feel disgust to the people I mentioned, which is not everyone in this thread.

Modifié par Link3521, 21 mars 2011 - 09:38 .

[Miri1984]

Link3521 wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

@Link the problem with non-violent protests when you involve mages is that they're incapable of putting their weapons down.

They can't put their gift of magic down, but like the three mages I mentioned early, they can show their unwillingness to use forceful means.  I don't think the conflict could've been resolved without some use of force, but I do think there was a chance for a more peaceful solution.

However, if the world has been told that mages are dangerous and will "go off" at the slightest provocation, I can't see a gathering of mages being looked upon as "peaceful" by anyone who isn't a mage themselves. If I was a normal person in Thedas and saw more than two mages at a time I'd be leaving the area VERY QUICKLY.

Cullen puts it very well, even though he's a "reasonable" templar, when he says "Mages are not people, they have the power to set a village on fire at a whim". The world has been taught to see ALL mages as dangerous, no matter what. Anders says in Awakenings: "The problem is, mages are tolerated, barely. There's nothing a mage can do to prove himself. Everyone needs to be protected from you. The end." That they can CHOOSE not to use that power doesn't enter into the heads of the common people, or the Templars, or the nobility, despite the fact that many do. 

We're dealing with world-wide indoctrination here, perpetrated by the Chantry. Nothing is going to change the minds of the population as long as the Chantry is in power, preaching "magic is meant to serve man and not rule over him" from every pulpit and skewing that to mean "mages are meant to serve man, and not to rule over them."

[MasterSamson88]

MorningBird wrote...

Just because someone agrees with Anders actions in a video game does not mean they must support/condone 'terrorism' in our modern day world. The world we live in now is vastly different than the world of 100--or even 50--years ago. Our views on what is 'moral' and 'unjustifyable' have changed.

Let's not forget that once upon a time, cutting off a child's hands for THEFT was considered a fit punishment for the crime, and that medieval warfare once targeted rural towns and villages where many 'innocent' lives were lost in the name of greed and conquest.

DA is a medieval fantasy role-play game. That being said, it's perfectly acceptable for a player to judge the events in the game by 'medieval' standards (the standards of the setting) without holding the same 'standards' to the modern era.

I agree with what Anders did because I accept that the game takes place in a different world, in a different time, and that the 'modern expectations' I've set in place for our world may not apply to Thedas in it's current state or time.

Implying that someone supports terrorism in the real world simply because they feel a video game character's actions (in a completely different time and place than our own) were justified, and that they have a 'ghastly take' on what happened, is ludicrous.

Yeah this is basically my viewpoint as well.

I mean by all means someone could protest against the Chantry's treatment of mages but I doubt it would go very far. I'm sure people have tried to reason with them time and time again but when it comes down to it it's very hard to reason with an entity that is shaped by it's sometimes radical ideology. 

It's even harder when that entity also has a standing army of like-minded individuals backing it up...

Modifié par MasterSamson88, 21 mars 2011 - 09:45 .

[Oracle Thunder]

Vech24 wrote...

Wow it's tough to keep track of this thread with so many poignant replies. Fact is, there's a fundamental flaw in the ideology that "Magic is a curse from the Maker" that has lead to the failed systemic construct of the Templars and the Circle. Until that single belief is changed AND accepted then the plight of Mages will continue and war will ensue.

@ihsmaeltheforsaken, Upsettingshorts, and GamerFTW: I agree and Ishmael's example of organized healing clinics would've further earned the support of the general public by illustrating that, while there's apparently Blood Mages hiding in every corner of Kirkwall, there are those that choose to resist and admonish the darker side of Magic. So when the inevitable Templar seeks to apprehend Mages that support non-violent reform, the PUBLIC bears witness. This would begin to shine a light on the flaws of the Templars and the Chantry.

What Anders has failed to realize is that his actions FURTHER CEMENT the flawed belief "Magic is a Curse, Mages need to be controlled" that has been institutionalized. You do not change acts of injustice and atrocity by becoming them. That's not Justice...that's Vengeance.

The problem with peaceful clinics is that the mages that are caught will be either imprisoned until they die (or someone busts them out) or made Tranquil because all apostates are maleficarum according to the Templars. Remember Karl at the beginning of the game? We're not talking about Templars beating mages and using hoses on them like during the freedom marches for black rights or anything. These Templars are taught to see apostate mages as tainted (because if they can exist blood magic free without the Chantry teaching them to resist demons then the justification for locking them all up goes down the drain). They aren't going to politely escort the mages to the Gallows. They will attack them, subdue them and possibly Tranquil them when they refuse to give up.

Also, aside from my earlier post on page 3, the fact is that 'good' Templars like Cullen have years to speak up  and help mages in this game but they never do so. They are trained to obey the Chantry and their CO. Even with their own beliefs they aren't going to go against the status quo. The Templars are military. Military does not put up with insubordination and they make sure you understand that during basic training or boot camp.

[Sarielle]

Just got back from work. Let's see.

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

Did they work? We don't know.

=====

A mother is buying goods in the market section of High Town, her daughter is playing on the steps of the Chantry - Andraste and the Maker watching over her - surely she is safe in the hands of the sisters.

Then, the Chantry explodes. The mother drops her basket full of fresh vegetables and cured meats. She runs to the site - only to see people fleeing. Covering their mouths with their hands or spare cloth. Covered in blood - they don't even give her a sideways glance as she cries for her daughter. The screams within the great plumes of smoke are deafening.

She disappears in the cloud. It swirls around her and she can swear there are "things" in the mist. Clawing, maddening, "things" of rage and pride and... justice.

Then, thanks be to Andraste the mist clears... but the horror before her is too much to bear. The Chantry is gone. Great coils of blackened smoke issue forth from the crater like dragons taking flight after terrible vengeance wrought upon mortal men.

She ignores all this and searches for her daughter. Her hands become bloody as she tears at the great stone blocks that are now strewn across the steps of the Chantry. Her nails splinter and break, but still she continues driven on by the strength of a mother who must save her daughter.

And there she is - a broken rag doll amongst all that marble. She clutches to the twisted arm of a cleric who's body disappears beneath a half-melted statue of Andraste that collapsed upon her. Your daughter. The pride of your life. The Maker's own gift... dead.

And the question is... why?

====

But hey, you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs right?

Are you trying to make me somehow feel guilty?

Lol, yes, for what Anders wanted to achieve, it appears to have worked. By Varric's accounts, the Chantry is falling apart. Even ANDERS acknowledges he has to pay for what he's done, if you tell him that. He just says, "I know." Doesn't mean the mages aren't winning their freedom now.

The emotional bit about some little girl dying was both unnecessary and irrelevant.

Edited for clarity. And, time to go to work.

It was neither unnecessary nor irrelevent. 

1)  It was the real cost of Anders' "victory". 
2)  It shows why it's not likely to be a victory for Anders.  Whenever someone asks why the Chantry is fighting to subdue and imprison the mages, why Templars must hunt them down and cage them, they will be told the story of how an apostate used a spell of mass destruction to destroy a Chantry, kill anyone in it or nearby, and start off the entire war, in a city that was full of malificar.

...no. None of what you said changed a SINGLE THING I said.

1) I'd have had no problem if they'd decided to show old Elthina and whoever else having a good prayer right before things go boom. Go for the pathos. That's fine. The game doesn't suggest there are no casualties -- quite the opposite. Everyone knows the grand cleric bought it.

2) If Cassandra hadn't been desperately seeking the champion to fix things, I might agree with you. As it stands, mages seem to be doing pretty damn well for themselves. Anders' actions incited FELLOW MAGES to action, which imo was his desire all along.


All that little tear-jerker of a scenario did was attempt to play on emotions instead of appealing to logic. I take exception to that.

[Iecerint]

Link3521 wrote...

Iecerint wrote...

Link3521 wrote...

I guess I just think people like MLK and Gandhi accomplished sooo much more than any act of terrorism ever could, so I tend to admire their actions and views and try to find peaceful resolutions to issues, I do this with the admitedly few issues in my life and I always roleplay the goody two-shoes for my cannon character.

Orsino had been openly attempting that since at least the start of Act 3.  The Mother "defused" the situation.

Orsino was.....yeah.....he hid Quentin from justice, I can't see how that's attempting to find a peaceful solution, imo he should've turned him in and show Meredith that mages can police themselves and are responsible enough to not endanger the lives of common people.  He did just the opposite of that, he showed mages can't be trusted.  Thankfully not all mages are like that  like Bethany.

I should clarify -- I'm talking about the scene at the start of Act 3 where Orsino leads a peaceful protest that Meredith threatens and then that the mother defuses.  My point is that MLK-like protests DID exist in the game and had already been attempted and failed by the time Anders did his thing.

(Whether Orsino had ulterior power-grab motives is beside the point I'm trying to make, though another point worth noting.)

Off-topic -- regarding the Quentin issue -- how much do we know that Orsino knew about Quentin's behavior?  The letters that I remember show he knew something was going on, but not that he was murdering people.

[Dan-mac RI]

Anders didn't want compromise. He purposefully removed the peaceful third option. He wanted a war. He hated doing it and I'll give him no out, it wasn't justice or vengeance that made him do it, it was him.

Even in Thedas, slaves are not freed by disobedience, Andraste fought to free them. Fenris was not let go, he had to free himself. The rest of the chantry would not let the mages go even if Elthina sided completely with them. The divine in Orlais would definitely call for an Exalted March and denounce Elthina. Meredith also wouldn't have accepted this and would claim a blood mages' influence on her.

The comparisons drawn to MLK and Gandhi make no sense. They both had a far larger percentage of the population definitely on their side. Hell, Gandhi had a whole country. When you have those numbers, peaceful protest works, better than violence usually. MLK had masses of followers too. There is no such massive amount of mages. Also, because they are separated from the population, if you kill all of them, or make them tranquil, normal people will likely not notice or care. They might disapprove but most of that number would do nothing to try to effect change, just say, that's kinda screwed up and go about their day. Besides, how exactly would the mages protest peacefully? The second they leave the circle without permission they are branded apostates, and thus, fair game for a templar to kill, not just arrest or return to the circle. That is especially true of Meredith, she would probably have given the order to annul the circle if there was ever a unified show of peaceful disobedience. This is by endgame when she is lyrium idol crazy of course. she might have restrained herself when she was rational.

Modifié par Dan-mac RI, 21 mars 2011 - 10:24 .

[fn_outlaw]

I honestly skimmed through the whole "supporting Anders is like supporting terrorism IRL" because its a game, not to be taken seriously. Many of the things I did in ME1 and ME2 made Shepard out to be quite the terrorist. I didn't do it because I have latent terrorism tendancies. I did them because they were entertaining.  Again, it's only a game...
Not saying I agree with Anders at all, because my hawke was trying for a peaceful solution that would have worked had he not blown up the damn Chantry, so OP, yes I was upset and surprised by what he did. I can't believe he would do such a thing...

Modifié par fn_outlaw, 21 mars 2011 - 10:40 .

[Medhia Nox]

Sarielle - if all you are, is a thing of logic, I have no problem disagreeing with you at all.

And Pro-Terrorism logic isn't even that sound.

What Anders did was incite the Chantry and the nations of Thedas to put down mages for the terrorists that Anders proves to be. Now, whether they wanted to or not, mages are forced to defend themselves.

What about Circle mages that weren't unhappy? Now they have to fight for their lives - because some psychopath supervillain demands it. Not all mages agree with Anders. Wynne, Irving, and any Mage on Thedas I make - are now forced to fight for their lives.

He has not only betrayed Hawke, but he betrayed Justice be perverted it into Vengeance, and he betrayed his fellow mages by putting them into a position they won't likely survive.

Anders has become little more than a boogey man - a cautionary tale why they will need Circles in the future. Or, why mothers will drown their children when they find out their mages. ((What if my son turns out to be like Anders?))

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 21 mars 2011 - 11:42 .

[Sarielle]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Sarielle - if all you are, is a thing of logic, I have no problem disagreeing with you at all.

And Pro-Terrorism logic isn't even that sound.

What Anders did was incite the Chantry and the nations of Thedas to put down mages for the terrorists that Anders proves to be. Now, whether they wanted to or not, mages are forced to defend themselves.

What about Circle mages that weren't unhappy? Now they have to fight for their lives - because some psychopath supervillain demands it. Not all mages agree with Anders. Wynne, Irving, and any Mage on Thedas I make - are now forced to fight for their lives.

He has not only betrayed Hawke, but he betrayed Justice be perverted it into Vengeance, and he betrayed his fellow mages by putting them into a position they won't likely survive.

Anders has become little more than a boogey man - a cautionary tale why they will need Circles in the future. Or, why mothers will drown their children when they find out their mages. ((What if my son turns out to be like Anders?))

Well, I agree that Templars/the Chantry would definitely try to crack down that much harder on mages after what Anders did. I also agree that the mages who were happy in the Circles are now forced to fight.

I don't think he cares. He did what he did so EXACTLY this situation would happen.

I don't think Anders "betrayed" Justice any more than Justice betrayed Anders. They're just themselves, and they didn't mix well. The road to Hell and good intentions and all that.

No, what I particularly disagree with (and this is really the only thing I disagree with, aside from your previous methods of persuasion) is that it doesn't work.

By everything we see from the Varric/Cassandra interactions, the Chantry is worried. There's no indication the mage revolt is the collossal failure you seem to think. We know other Circles have risen up. Was it threat of the Rite of Annulment there, too? Maybe. Probably. But the result is the same. They're fighting for freedom whether they originally wanted it or not. And the Chantry doesn't appear to have control anymore.

[solution_nine]

 The very notion of freedom for mages is not a cause one can support half heartedly, and I am 100% there with him on it. What he did was drastic, yes, but there are no half measures. There are no compromises in a revolution.

[LioTheAwesome]

Haha no, I support Anders 110%
He is the man, in Awakening & DA2.
I mean if we would told me, I would of helped, no doubt.
& when that bomb went off, I was like " Andraste's ******.... Anders this ain't 4th of July "
xD

[LioTheAwesome]

I mean if he would of told me*

[cglasgow]

Actually, I have no problem with people who go 'I supported Anders in the game because I wanted to role-play one of the bad guys'. I mean, I've totally been in tabletop superhero RPGs that were supervillain campaigns.

As long as its admitted that Anders did a villainous thing, hey, knock yourself out. Its when people try to whitewash him as some kind of misunderstood hero that I go 'waaaaaaaaaaaaait a minute'.

[Sabariel]

Medhia Nox wrote...

He has not only betrayed Hawke, but he betrayed Justice be perverted it into Vengeance, and he betrayed his fellow mages by putting them into a position they won't likely survive.

Betrayal would imply that Anders knew that Justice would become corrupt, but he did not. Neither of them knew what would happen if Justice "possessed" him. It was a risk they both took.

[sassperella]

Sabariel wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

He has not only betrayed Hawke, but he betrayed Justice be perverted it into Vengeance, and he betrayed his fellow mages by putting them into a position they won't likely survive.

Betrayal would imply that Anders knew that Justice would become corrupt, but he did not. Neither of them knew what would happen if Justice "possessed" him. It was a risk they both took.

IMO Justice was not pure when he merged with Anders to begin with. If you play Awakening  you can already see the signs in conversations with both Anders and Nate.

Demons want to see the mortal realm through living eyes - check
Demons offer a deal of power to be allowed to do this - check

Anders was seduced into a deal with a spirit that was already becoming a demon because he saw that spirit as his friend and because it appealed to the thing he desired most - mage freedom.  By joining together, the anger that Anders had toward the Chantry perverted Justice even further, but I fully believe that Justice wasn't the innocent spirit he'd been in the fade at the time they joined.

[Sabariel]

sassperella wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

He has not only betrayed Hawke, but he betrayed Justice be perverted it into Vengeance, and he betrayed his fellow mages by putting them into a position they won't likely survive.

Betrayal would imply that Anders knew that Justice would become corrupt, but he did not. Neither of them knew what would happen if Justice "possessed" him. It was a risk they both took.

IMO Justice was not pure when he merged with Anders to begin with. If you play Awakening  you can already see the signs in conversations with both Anders and Nate.

Demons want to see the mortal realm through living eyes - check
Demons offer a deal of power to be allowed to do this - check

Anders was seduced into a deal with a spirit that was already becoming a demon because he saw that spirit as his friend and because it appealed to the thing he desired most - mage freedom.  By joining together, the anger that Anders had toward the Chantry perverted Justice even further, but I fully believe that Justice wasn't the innocent spirit he'd been in the fade at the time they joined.

Yeah, I can see that as well; Justice being somewhat corrupted from his time in Kristoff's body.

[MorningBird]

Medhia Nox wrote...
Sarielle - if all you are, is a thing of logic, I have no problem disagreeing with you at all.

And Pro-Terrorism logic isn't even that sound.

It's perfectly sound logic.

What you have to remember is that Hawke is not from our world or our time.  Hawke was raised in a medieval setting, and endured a medieval society built upon medieval principles.

I don't think anyone would argue that you can't find many 'terrible' acts of terrorism committed throughout history.  However, I would point out that (for the times) such acts were often justifiable and deemed necessary.

It's easy to look back on history and say, "Those ruffians!  Surely they could have settled their differences peacefully without getting all of those innocent people caught in the crossfire?"

However, that's because as a society, our way of thinking has evolved since then.  The entire Dragon Age universe, however, is still firmly rooted in those 'ends justify the means' principles.

I think it says something about Anders as a character that he didn't WANT to harm innocent people DESPITE the hostile 'kill or be killed' setting of the Dragon Age universe.

You, however, have chosen to hold a medieval fantasy universe--and Anders' actions--up to modern day standards.  This isn't wrong, mind you.  As Cassandra says, not EVERYONE wants an all out war.  However, that doesn't mean someone is using 'faulty logic' when they oppose mage oppression and believe that a war is EXACTLY  what Thedas needs.

Medhia Nox wrote...
What Anders did was incite the Chantry and the nations of Thedas to put down mages for the terrorists that Anders proves to be. Now, whether they wanted to or not, mages are forced to defend themselves.

I really consider this flawed reasoning on the Chantry's part.  As far as I can tell (and I may be wrong) Anders didn't use magic to blow up the Chantry.  He used explosives, the ingredients for which could be found, gathered and packed by just about anyone, including the mundane, who don't have magic.

Heck, if Anders didn't make it VERY clear that he was behind the Chantry's destruction, would anyone have even known that a mage was behind it?

To me, the idea that, "All mages must suffer due to the actions of one man who just so happened to be a mage!" does nothing but prove how deep the Chantry's corruption runs.

As many have pointed out, Meredith had Anders right in front of her, but she couldn't even be bothered to put a knife in him herself.  Heck, it's a templar's duty to not only to protect the mundane from out of control mages, but to protect the mages from out of control mundane who would persecute people solely on the grounds that they were born mages. 

That is one of the very reasons the chantry gives as justification for locking mages up.  That it's just as much for 'the good of all mages' as the 'good of everyone else.'

Meredith could have easily killed the apostate and then told the people that the one responsible had been delt with.

However, she completely turns her back on this particular duty (the one that pertains to PROTECTING the mages against the mob) and, in fact, uses it as justification for annulling the circle when the circle wasn't even involved.

Medhia Nox wrote...
What about Circle mages that weren't unhappy? Now they have to fight for their lives - because some psychopath supervillain demands it. Not all mages agree with Anders. Wynne, Irving, and any Mage on Thedas I make - are now forced to fight for their lives.

Hadriana's slave girl wasn't unhappy being a slave.  I guess that means my Hawke shouldn't have given her a paying job, since she was already so happy with her lot in life, and all.

Point being, I find it telling that mages like Anders and Bethany, who spend ample time living as both free apostates and circle mages, prefer freedom.

Medhia Nox wrote...
He has not only betrayed Hawke, but he betrayed Justice be perverted it into Vengeance, and he betrayed his fellow mages by putting them into a position they won't likely survive.

Anders has become little more than a boogey man - a cautionary tale why they will need Circles in the future. Or, why mothers will drown their children when they find out their mages. ((What if my son turns out to be like Anders?))

If you ask me, Justice was perverted long before he entered Anders (wow, that just sounds like terrible innuendo.)  The moment Justice decided to 'take up the plight of the mages' he was changed, and on that note, let's not forget that Justice also changed Anders.

That being said... how do we know the mages 'won't survive'?  If they stood absolutely no chance of winning, then how did they break free of chantry/templar control in the first place?

What, was it a fluke?  I would maybe believe that if only ONE circle managed to break free from the chantry (before being crushed under the boots of templar reinforcements), but all of them broke free?  And they're still free?

They have a better fighting chance, and are more united, than you may think.

Modifié par MorningBird, 22 mars 2011 - 01:52 .

[Medhia Nox]

Actually - medieval Europe was not a place of great social upheaval. At least, not on the level of the common man. Common men almost never revolted in the way they did around the Age of Reason. The common peasant of Europe was property of a local Lord. Feudalism officially begins when the Carolingian Dynasty collapses in the 9th Century.

Feudalism was the primary form of European government during the medieval period. In this time, the common man was almost universally illiterate. They were property of land owners by varying names: Barons, Lords, etc. To hurt one was not an issue with "human rights" it was a matter of property damage.

So, before we start adding "human civic rights" to an argument - and then stating something about how medieval Europe was, let's cover the facts.

It was probably not until the advent of gunpowder that the common man had any chance of truly overthrowing their government. Commoners did not have the resources to craft weaponry and armor. They could not assault castles, fight knights on horseback, or trained militia. There were no "armies" in the modern sense in medieval Europe. All the military groups were paid by local lords (the knights) and would likely not even think of assisting rebel commoners in overthrowing their meal ticket.

That doesn't mean that some countries did not attempt to revolt against other countries. Scotland is notorious for its many revolutions, and William Wallace was a peasant (although notably educated in many subjects - probably including warfare). He was also a violent madman at least as cruel as his English oppressors (not that any of you have a problem with violence evidently). There is precedence - but it is few and far between - and most important NOT successful.

The revolution of the colonials of America were the first significant group of commoners who rebelled against a monarch. Foolishly, the King of France (a mere teenager) Louis the XVI, assisted the Americans in their revolution which is often to be a direct catalyst to a revolution in his own country (which lead to his beheading). It wasn't until 1905 that revolution finally reached Russia, but the Tsars would not be removed until 1918.

These are fantasy worlds that are almost ALL so polluted with modern day sentimentality that they have nothing but a weak appearance of "medieval" behind them.

Mages are powerful, but they're also preyed upon by demons. This is a huge weakness as they are consumed by rage and pride spirits. Those spirits won't discriminate who they hurt. They will hurt villages, nobles, and soldiers alike.

The mages have no supplies, they have no support. Towns, cities, everyone will likely turn them away. Those Towers in cities might be "annulled" the old fashion way. We haven't seen them, it's true - but just turn ballista and catapults on the towers - and you won't have to fight the mages inside.

Of course - Bioware has decided to take a modern view and have this revolution work somehow. I say it's poor writing and a lack of knowledge of how historical events have traditionally played out - but I'm positive they could find at least one example in history to prove me wrong (probably ancient history moreso than medieval).

I still believe you will have families despising their magical children for decades - if not centuries to come - from the backlash this revolution with cause. You will have mages completely ostracized from society - and when mages can't be targeted, the families of mages will be.

But it's change for the better in some people's minds I suppose.

I'll just hold up in the Ferelden Circle with Wynne (if she's still alive) and Irving - and the rest of the free Circle mages there (because my Warden freed them without terrorism).

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 22 mars 2011 - 02:29 .

[Sabariel]

Your Warden didn't free the mages at all. As Wynne herself says, "Mages will never be free."