709 réponses à ce sujet

[turian councilor Knockout]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

his views aren't misguided.

No, Kirkwall wasn't filled with blood mages ?, will his actions make it easier for mages in kirkwall?.
Mages are not just ready to be free yet  but are locked up for a reason which is to protect people from them (abominations,demon and blood mages where everywhere in kirkwall).

Modifié par turian councilor Knockout, 15 avril 2011 - 09:26 .

[Gamer Ftw]

His actions were supposed to force a war they did.
The chantry needs to be taken down they are mass murders and oppressors of the innocent.

[turian councilor Knockout]

His actions will also force both the chantry and templars to act against the mages even harder or do you believe that they will just stand and watch after what happened and not every one in the chantry wants a war as Cassandra stated, I can understand Anders goal but i can not agree with his methods to achieve what he wants ( i mean Anders even go so far and use you to blow up the chantry if you do his quest).

Modifié par turian councilor Knockout, 15 avril 2011 - 10:11 .

[Plaintiff]

I'm totally thrilled. The chantry is toxic and needs to be eradicated.

[Serelir]

The more people defend the Chantry, the more I consider the Chantry an abomination for the following:

1. Taking children from their mothers.
2. Keeping them locked up for their entire lives..
3. Forbidding them to marry.
4. Forbidding them to have children.
5. Profiting off their labor.
6. Keeping them under constant surveillance.
7. Raping and abusing them.
8. Keeping them in a constant state of fear.
9. Lobotomizing any mage who doesn't obey.

How is this any different from slavery? Those who keep arguing that mages are dangerous don't understand the concept of Innocent Until Proven Guilty. They also haven't read all the posts explaining that mages turned to blood magic in their desperation to be free.

The Chantry also destroyed the Dales, land given by Andraste to Shartan and the elves for aiding her. Those elves who didn't become homeless migrants were rounded up in alienages, made to serve humans, and treated as inferior creatures.

The Chantry is completely hypocritical. The Divine Mother, as the head of this institution, did NOTHING to make life better for the mages and therefore prevent a war. Kill them all and let the maker sort them out is her attitude. The Templars are a bunch of leeches.

If you played DAO, you know that the Mages Collective is perfectly capable of hunting down and destroying any maleficars, and they don't need to be addicted to lyrium to do it. Rivain has free mages, and it hasn't turned into a Tevinter-like tyranny. Rivain also does not follow the Cult of Andraste, fancy that! Duncan was from Rivain, which is probably why he was so open-minded about mages. I will always be grateful to him for rescuing me from the Circle and Alistair from the Templars.

I think I'll play the game over just to blow up the Chantry again.

[The Baconer]

I'm no fan of the Chantry, but I will say Anders sentenced a large number of mages to death with his actions.

[Kawamura]

The Baconer wrote...

I'm no fan of the Chantry, but I will say Anders sentenced a large number of mages to death with his actions.

The Rite of Anulment had been called and Leliana mentions the Divine considering an Exalted March against Kirkwall. Also, numerous mages were fleeing, being killed while fleeing, or being made Tranquil.

[The Baconer]

Kawamura wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

I'm no fan of the Chantry, but I will say Anders sentenced a large number of mages to death with his actions.

The Rite of Anulment had been called and Leliana mentions the Divine considering an Exalted March against Kirkwall. Also, numerous mages were fleeing, being killed while fleeing, or being made Tranquil.

Uh. Yes? Is this a debate or an agreement?

[sonoko]

Tuilinn Celeborne wrote...

I think I'll play the game over just to blow up the Chantry again.

Yes, that explosion was awesome!

( I hated all those hipocritical zealots back in Origins and was overjoyed seeing Chantry went "kaboom"
. Why why why there was no option to hug Anders after that?!)

[Kawamura]

The Baconer wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

I'm no fan of the Chantry, but I will say Anders sentenced a large number of mages to death with his actions.

The Rite of Anulment had been called and Leliana mentions the Divine considering an Exalted March against Kirkwall. Also, numerous mages were fleeing, being killed while fleeing, or being made Tranquil.

Uh. Yes? Is this a debate or an agreement?

It means they might as well have been dead anyways, at least the ones in Kirkwall.

[Addai]

sonoko wrote...

Tuilinn Celeborne wrote...

I think I'll play the game over just to blow up the Chantry again.

Yes, that explosion was awesome!

( I hated all those hipocritical zealots back in Origins and was overjoyed seeing Chantry went "kaboom"
. Why why why there was no option to hug Anders after that?!)

Because that's sick and kind of creepy?

[Addai]

Kawamura wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

I'm no fan of the Chantry, but I will say Anders sentenced a large number of mages to death with his actions.

The Rite of Anulment had been called and Leliana mentions the Divine considering an Exalted March against Kirkwall. Also, numerous mages were fleeing, being killed while fleeing, or being made Tranquil.

And now even the "moderate" Circles elsewhere will become Kirkwall.  Not to mention what the common folk will likely do to anyone they suspect of being a mage.

Modifié par Addai67, 15 avril 2011 - 03:40 .

[Ryzaki]

Yeah Anders screwed over loads of people. He had no right to make that decision because frankly all mages don't want to be free. He just imposed his own view on countless people.

[The Baconer]

Kawamura wrote...
It means they might as well have been dead anyways, at least the ones in Kirkwall.

Perhaps, but we don't know if the Divine would end up initiating the Exalted March or approving the Rite. Anders removed any reason to give her pause for consideration, and gave Meredith the authority to Annul the Circle by removing Elthina. And in the case of mages fleeing, being killed while fleeing, or being made Tranquil, now all the Circles get to experience the same thing thanks to Anders.

[LobselVith8]

Addai67 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

The Rite of Anulment had been called and Leliana mentions the Divine considering an Exalted March against Kirkwall. Also, numerous mages were fleeing, being killed while fleeing, or being made Tranquil.

And now even the "moderate" Circles elsewhere will become Kirkwall.  Not to mention what the common folk will likely do to anyone they suspect of being a mage.

All fourteen Circles of Magi were under Chantry control over nearly a millennia, and I can see why Anders thought it was better to die on your feet than live on your knees. The only person in a position of authority who tries to help the mages is King Alistair (and possibly Queen Anora) since he harbors apostates from the Chantry (and he also fights for the Magi boon).

As for "moderate" Circles becoming Kirkwall, the Circles of Magi seem to have rebelled against Chantry and templar control, which is why Varric addresses that they have lost control of the Circles and that the templars left the Chantry to hunt the mages.

[Kawamura]

Addai67 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

I'm no fan of the Chantry, but I will say Anders sentenced a large number of mages to death with his actions.

The Rite of Anulment had been called and Leliana mentions the Divine considering an Exalted March against Kirkwall. Also, numerous mages were fleeing, being killed while fleeing, or being made Tranquil.

And now even the "moderate" Circles elsewhere will become Kirkwall.  Not to mention what the common folk will likely do to anyone they suspect of being a mage.

You mean do what they always do?

It's a bad situation no matter what. It's not like Anders destroyed a paradise of correct policing and gentle, if untrusting, feelings between mages and non mages. He just made things worse in the hopes that, when the smoke cleared, they might be better.

[Poetics124]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

The Rite of Anulment had been called and Leliana mentions the Divine considering an Exalted March against Kirkwall. Also, numerous mages were fleeing, being killed while fleeing, or being made Tranquil.

And now even the "moderate" Circles elsewhere will become Kirkwall.  Not to mention what the common folk will likely do to anyone they suspect of being a mage.

All fourteen Circles of Magi were under Chantry control over nearly a millennia, and I can see why Anders thought it was better to die on your feet than live on your knees. The only person in a position of authority who tries to help the mages is King Alistair (and possibly Queen Anora) since he harbors apostates from the Chantry (and he also fights for the Magi boon).

As for "moderate" Circles becoming Kirkwall, the Circles of Magi seem to have rebelled against Chantry and templar control, which is why Varric addresses that they have lost control of the Circles and that the templars left the Chantry to hunt the mages.

Which is what I found the most interesting.   Not just some of the Circle broke free.  Not just a small minority.

All of them broke free.  Which tells you what the majority of mages in the circle feel like and they would rather risk death together than live under the chantry any longer.  Which means that Anders was not alone in his need to break free from the chantry and rebel.  And the fact that they are inspired by Anders to do it says a lot about the state between the Circles and the Chantry.  A lot.

[Kawamura]

The Baconer wrote...

Kawamura wrote...
It means they might as well have been dead anyways, at least the ones in Kirkwall.

Perhaps, but we don't know if the Divine would end up initiating the Exalted March or approving the Rite. Anders removed any reason to give her pause for consideration, and gave Meredith the authority to Annul the Circle by removing Elthina. And in the case of mages fleeing, being killed while fleeing, or being made Tranquil, now all the Circles get to experience the same thing thanks to Anders.

If I was her, and seriously considering a March, I'd most likely go for the Rite as a way to try and stop things there without having to go to the extreme of a March.

It doesn't look good for mages in Kirkwall no matter what. Besides, personally? I'd rather the waiting be over than have every day some of my peers killed or otherwise removed.

I would wonder, though, with two Circles going down in less than a decade, even without the Chantry exploding, things may have gotten worse for the mages anyways.

[The Baconer]

Kawamura wrote...
If I was her, and seriously considering a March, I'd most likely go for the Rite as a way to try and stop things there without having to go to the extreme of a March.

It doesn't look good for mages in Kirkwall no matter what. Besides, personally? I'd rather the waiting be over than have every day some of my peers killed or otherwise removed.

Good thing the mages of Kirkwall have Anders to make that decision for them!

He even fully expects to be martyrd after blowing the Chantry up, essentially spilling everything onto their laps and leaving. He gets the glory with none of the work. What a prig.

[Kawamura]

The Baconer wrote...

Kawamura wrote...
If I was her, and seriously considering a March, I'd most likely go for the Rite as a way to try and stop things there without having to go to the extreme of a March.

It doesn't look good for mages in Kirkwall no matter what. Besides, personally? I'd rather the waiting be over than have every day some of my peers killed or otherwise removed.

Good thing the mages of Kirkwall have Anders to make that decision for them!

He even fully expects to be martyrd after blowing the Chantry up, essentially spilling everything onto their laps and leaving. He gets the glory with none of the work. What a prig.

So you're angry at him for being responsible and then... not?

He did a bad thing in hopes it would bring about good things, even though that bad thing would probably get him killed by a loved one (friend or lover or even a really obnoxious git that he can't help but stick around with).

Would you have felt better if your Hawke was given the choice to do it?

Modifié par Kawamura, 15 avril 2011 - 04:31 .

[Addai]

Poetics124 wrote...
All of them broke free.  Which tells you what the majority of mages in the circle feel like and they would rather risk death together than live under the chantry any longer.  Which means that Anders was not alone in his need to break free from the chantry and rebel.  And the fact that they are inspired by Anders to do it says a lot about the state between the Circles and the Chantry.  A lot.

That's quite an assumption.  My guess is that the Chantry started clamping down and possibly seeking annullments for other Circles, so the rebellions were self-defense.  I'm sure Anders wasn't alone but he and his jihad buddies decided to drag everyone into it.

[Addai]

Kawamura wrote...
So you're angry at him for being responsible and then... not?

He did a bad thing in hopes it would bring about good things, even though that bad thing would probably get him killed by a loved one (friend or lover or even a really obnoxious git that he can't help but stick around with).

Would you have felt better if your Hawke was given the choice to do it?

When does Anders ever act responsibly?

And he has no idea of the "good" he hopes to bring about except vague platitudes about the lion lying down with the lamb.

[Kawamura]

Addai67 wrote...

I'm sure Anders wasn't alone but he and his jihad buddies decided to drag everyone into it.

Anders wants to be a better Muslim?

D:

[Kawamura]

Addai67 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...
So you're angry at him for being responsible and then... not?

He did a bad thing in hopes it would bring about good things, even though that bad thing would probably get him killed by a loved one (friend or lover or even a really obnoxious git that he can't help but stick around with).

Would you have felt better if your Hawke was given the choice to do it?

When does Anders ever act responsibly?

And he has no idea of the "good" he hopes to bring about except vague platitudes about the lion lying down with the lamb.

I would consider the bombing of the Chantry alone to be a act of responsibility, if a really twisted one.

He decided to be the one to fix things and he "knew" that a nasty thing was required, and he did it. Doesn't help that we're dealing with a being that's a bit off his rocker.