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[upsettingshorts]

Miri1984 wrote...

From Wikipedia (I know, I'm such a lazy researcher, but it's late and the library is shut)

"Limited political terrorism – Genuine political terrorism is characterized by a revolutionary approach; limited political terrorism refers to “acts of terrorism which are committed for ideological or political motives but which are not part of a concerted campaign to capture control of the state."

Anders doesn't want to take over the Chantry, he wants to break it down. He's not a revolutionary as such.

He's a revolutionary in the sense he is demanding freedom for a "nation" - the mages of Thedas. He thinks bigger than a limited political terrorist in that he literally wants to bring about a new world order.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 21 mars 2011 - 10:54 .

[Gamer Ftw]

But does the label of terrorism really change the fact that this is just a man who wants to be free?
call him what you will he wasn't afraid to fly.

[upsettingshorts]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

But does the label of terrorism really change the fact that this is just a man who wants to be free?

It's not about labeling who he is, it's about labeling what he did.  He's a revolutionary (man who wants to be free) who used terrorism (what he did). 

And depending on your perspective the answer to your question is yes.  He didn't just decide it for himself, he decided it for everyone - and he doesn't have the right to.   It's why even he knows and admits he should answer for what he did.

...now that I've spent the last few pages condeming him, I think I'll take a break to go play a Hawke in DA2 who would have blown up the Chantry herself had Anders let her in on the scheme.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 21 mars 2011 - 10:58 .

[Aeowyn]

Nobody will like mages. Nothing would change if Anders hadn't done what he did. I don't agree with his actions, but I do agree that something extreme needed to happen to "set the wheel in motion" so to speak. This is a situation that would never be able to end without a war anyway.

[flexxdk]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Whacka wrote...

I also didn't really see the point in blowing the Chantry up...

It started the war Anders believed was necessary and just.  He was attempting to violently and unilaterally remove the middle ground from the political equation, and he succeeded. 

You mean the party as in supposed to keep peace between the Mages and Templars? Hmmm...

When you look at it that way, the Grand Cleric wasn't doing anything about the conflict between the two groups. She didn't want to choose sides.

Still, all this leaves me confused.

I understand that it was done so that the middle ground would be removed. But why, exactly? What did Anders hope to gain, other than the war he thought was necessary and just? How does it relate to the war? What did the removal of the Chantry allow?

Ugh, I think I'm gonna spend some more time reading this thread, to make my head hurt less.

Modifié par Whacka, 21 mars 2011 - 11:05 .

[Clover Rider]

Aeowyn wrote...

Nobody will like mages. Nothing would change if Anders hadn't done what he did. I don't agree with his actions, but I do agree that something extreme needed to happen to "set the wheel in motion" so to speak. This is a situation that would never be able to end without a war anyway.

I don't know I could think of some ways but what is done is done as they say.

[Aeowyn]

Some Geth wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Nobody will like mages. Nothing would change if Anders hadn't done what he did. I don't agree with his actions, but I do agree that something extreme needed to happen to "set the wheel in motion" so to speak. This is a situation that would never be able to end without a war anyway.

I don't know I could think of some ways but what is done is done as they say.

If Anders hadn't done what the did the Divine would've sent in her armies to Kirkwall to kill every mage (and I guess innocents would be killed then as well). War was inevitable.

[Clover Rider]

Aeowyn wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Nobody will like mages. Nothing would change if Anders hadn't done what he did. I don't agree with his actions, but I do agree that something extreme needed to happen to "set the wheel in motion" so to speak. This is a situation that would never be able to end without a war anyway.

I don't know I could think of some ways but what is done is done as they say.

If Anders hadn't done what the did the Divine would've sent in her armies to Kirkwall to kill every mage (and I guess innocents would be killed then as well). War was inevitable.

Well I could have try to make a political campaign of sorts to stop that but I can't the game will not let me=].

[Aeowyn]

A political campaign for which side? The Templars? Yeah that could work. The mages? As Senechal Brann said "Political malestrom"

[Gamer Ftw]

besides it's not only the mages the chantry has wronged have you forgoten the exalted march on the elves?

[Maria Caliban]

"Death is not justice." - Grand Cleric Ethina

The number of ironic statements in this game is amusing.

[Prince of Kemet]

It had to be done, it was the only choice that he had. His only mistake in my opinion was failing to kill Meredith as well.

[Clover Rider]

Aeowyn wrote...

A political campaign for which side? The Templars? Yeah that could work. The mages? As Senechal Brann said "Political malestrom"

You never know most nobles like Hawke and I was talking about trying to stop the deaths of the mages not for them to get full freedom or anything.

[Aeowyn]

Yeah Some Geth, but you have to think about the Chantry. In the end, the Divine in Val Royeaux is the one with the most power, and I doubt she would allow that to happen.

Edit: Just to clarify. If she wants the Right of Annulment, she will get the Right of Annulment, and I doubt anything would stop her. They do have their history of "Exalted Marshes" if they don't like the way situations are heading after all.

Modifié par Aeowyn, 21 mars 2011 - 11:24 .

[Gamer Ftw]

In would rather be dead than lobotimized or locked in a tower for life.

[Clover Rider]

Aeowyn wrote...

Yeah Some Geth, but you have to think about the Chantry. In the end, the Divine in Val Royeaux is the one with the most power, and I doubt she would allow that to happen.

Well I don't know her so hard to say if we could stop her or not makes me wonder what she is like.

[Zkyire]

Galagraphia wrote...

Not upset. I'm in awe and he's my hero now.

By blowing up the Kirkwall Chantry, killing a bunch of Clerics, innocent Chantry-goers, pushing the Templars into revenge against the Mages, and starting a war that will likely leave more people dead than the last Blight, not just Templars and Mages but a lot of innocents too.

Anders deserved to die for what he did.

[Gamer Ftw]

No the Chantry has killed aand will keep killing it needs to stop.

[sonoko]

I definetly wasn't upset with Anders in DA2, he is my hero now! He did in DA2 exactly the same thing that my Elf Mage Warden wanted so badly to do in DAO!!! I never hated templars, these poor lirium-addicts are as much victims of the Chantry as mages. Chantry in DA world is a rather sinister and militaristic structure with pretty facade, controlling its military forces by means of drugs. Don't forget Exhalted Marches and the fate of elves and that even a king in his own country (Alistair) couldn't go against Chantry's policy (Mages boon in the end DAO).

Terrorism aims at innocent people but since it was the Chantry who invented and supports current system of mages' slavery Chantry workers are not innocent party here, they are enemies to be destroyed.

But there was a person who could stop the tragedy - Elthina. I believe she was a good priest but a terrible official. In act 2 she passively watched how her own subordinates fanned the flames of hatred against Qunari and I believe she had plenty of opportunities to use her influence against Meredith. Instead she does nothing! Well, sometimes neutrality is a sin, a mistake which leads only to bloodshed. Elthina is so eager to die with her flock but doesn't even try to save it.

That's why Anders' act was perfectly justified. If it wasn't for it, well, Meredith would just sooner or later used the right of annulment and slaughtered mages, then everybody would just try to forget about this unfortunate incident as it already was before.

(sorry for my Enlish, it's not my native language)

[Aeowyn]

Some Geth wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Yeah Some Geth, but you have to think about the Chantry. In the end, the Divine in Val Royeaux is the one with the most power, and I doubt she would allow that to happen.

Well I don't know her so hard to say if we could stop her or not makes me wonder what she is like.

She's counted as the hand of the Maker or something isn't she? Considering how religious most of the Andastrians seem to be, I don't think many would dare going against her.

[Clover Rider]

Aeowyn wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Yeah Some Geth, but you have to think about the Chantry. In the end, the Divine in Val Royeaux is the one with the most power, and I doubt she would allow that to happen.

Well I don't know her so hard to say if we could stop her or not makes me wonder what she is like.

She's counted as the hand of the Maker or something isn't she? Considering how religious most of the Andastrians seem to be, I don't think many would dare going against her.

Well than she has to see mages as tools of the Maker so why get rid of some tools that work and you know are not blood tools=].

[Baldrick67]

I wonder how many people got killed by the torrent of huge ass stones that rained down from the explosion ?

What Anders did killed hundreds of people and turned the general distrust of mages into full blown fear and hate.

[Aeowyn]

Some Geth wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Yeah Some Geth, but you have to think about the Chantry. In the end, the Divine in Val Royeaux is the one with the most power, and I doubt she would allow that to happen.

Well I don't know her so hard to say if we could stop her or not makes me wonder what she is like.

She's counted as the hand of the Maker or something isn't she? Considering how religious most of the Andastrians seem to be, I don't think many would dare going against her.

Well than she has to see mages as tools of the Maker so why get rid of some tools that work and you know are not blood tools=].

Mages are not seen as "tools". Magic is seen as a curse. Something unnatural that the Maker did not allow his children to have. This is why mages are opressed.

[Gamer Ftw]

Magic is meant to serve man says andraste so they should be tools of the maker.

[Clover Rider]

Aeowyn wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Yeah Some Geth, but you have to think about the Chantry. In the end, the Divine in Val Royeaux is the one with the most power, and I doubt she would allow that to happen.

Well I don't know her so hard to say if we could stop her or not makes me wonder what she is like.

She's counted as the hand of the Maker or something isn't she? Considering how religious most of the Andastrians seem to be, I don't think many would dare going against her.

Well than she has to see mages as tools of the Maker so why get rid of some tools that work and you know are not blood tools=].

Mages are not seen as "tools". Magic is seen as a curse. Something unnatural that the Maker did not allow his children to have. This is why mages are opressed.

Yes I know but they use them as tools anyway.