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[Maclimes]

 When choosing between the Mages and the Templar, on my first playthrough, I went with the mages. It seemed the logical choice, when faced with Meredith's insanity and the constant messages of freedom for mages. But then the guy I was supporting turned evil, went bonkers, and there seemed to be no point to it.

For my second playthrough, I sided with the Templar instead. It was immensely more satisfying. Sure, the same events technically happen. But there's one major difference: Cullen.

He presented a reasonable, sympathetic side to the Templar. I wasn't siding with Meredith, I was siding with the Templar. There's a wide gulf there. Cullen was able to recognize when things went too far, and even argued for mercy for the mages. He made the choice seem ... less bad.

There's no equivalent character over on the mage side. Every single mage whose name you learn turns to blood magic and demons. There's no reasonable side to the argument from their end. The worst of the lot has even been hanging out with you for six years. I think the game could have benefited greatly from some sort of "second in command" for Orsino, too, who was disgusted with his actions and argued for peace.

Despite being a big supporter of mages, personally, I found that Cullen's character made all the difference. My, how he has grown since Ferelden.

[Big I]

I was actually surprised at how much I liked Cullen. He went from being a character I couldn't stand in Origins to being one I simply disagreed with.

[Hawkamania]

I agree, I liked the Templars ending much better than the Mages one for the reason you listed above, Cullen. Being that you stop most of the mages that turn to blood magic, still remove Meredith from power, and even lay forth stability by becoming the Viscount which is what the people of Kirkwall wanted.

[nubbers666]

both endings were boring as heck to me but that tends to happen when game is rushed

[dujh]

Hawkamania69 wrote...

I agree, I liked the Templars ending much better than the Mages one for the reason you listed above, Cullen. Being that you stop most of the mages that turn to blood magic, still remove Meredith from power, and even lay forth stability by becoming the Viscount which is what the people of Kirkwall wanted.

me to

[The Big Nothing]

I loved the mage ending.

You and your group are among the few mage-sympathetic survivors. You defeat the mad leader of the templars, and then her subordinates allow you to flee.

[Mahtisonni]

I preferred mage ending mainly because those religious zealots annoyed the ****** out of me.

If every city guard could use templar powers then people would have little to fear from mages, but NOOOOOO!
Chantry secrets u can not has.

[Akron1983]

Cullen on the other hand is rather coloured by what happens in the circle in ferelden. His opinion of mages isnt exactly the best and I wouldnt even really call him sane.

[TexasToast712]

Templar cuz you getz to be duh ViscoUnt. LoL

In all seriousness I felt more satisfied going Templar as you find out Orsino could have essentially preventing your mother's death by informing the Templars about the mad man. It also felt real good to openly challenge Meredith and tell her "NO you will not kill my sister."

[TexasToast712]

Akron1983 wrote...

Cullen on the other hand is rather coloured by what happens in the circle in ferelden. His opinion of mages isnt exactly the best and I wouldnt even really call him sane.

When you choose to spare the surrendered mages going pro Templar he reveals he isnt totally heartless and redeemed himself in my eyes by openly challenging Meredith.

[Oneiropolos]

Templar ending. It felt like I wasn't leaving friends out to hang... like Varric and Aveline. Their lives are in Kirkwall now. What happens when they have to run with you? We don't know, and we aren't told. We do know Varric STILL hasn't changed clothes three years later... So at least he's not down to selling the shirt off his back. Then again, playing through as a mage, I kinda felt some hope for Anders when I let him live. I still kinda wanted to kill him. But his reaction at me letting him live felt like "Anders" and not "Janders". Also, I felt like if Justice was still so predominant, he'd have surfaced against Meredith. But he didn't. At least, Anders eyes weren't glowing blue in that fight that I saw. It seemed like maybe Vengeance had finally calmed down. I dunno. Doesn't excuse what Anders did, but it seemed like Anders was hoping for a better future instead of feeling like things were a lost cause.

So there's ups and downs to both, but man, having all the templars kneel to you in the Templar ending is epic. I have to go with that one. Plus it means my friends can keep living where they want even if for some odd reason, Varric says they all leave me. It's like "Eh? They left between three years ago and now and I disappeared some point between then and now? What does leave mean? What about Aveline and Varric? The others don't have attachment to Kirkwall, but Varric's always really lived there and Aveline is captain of the guard and married to a guardman. You don't just up and leave!" It makes me wonder, since we're given no chance to talk to companions AFTER the defining battle at the end.

[MaglorArcanist]

The endings are exactly the same, you fight orsino and meredith and flee and witout control of the event in some way, and after the game end, with all doors open for da3.
By a story point of view you have no choice and ending da2, is a da 1.5, who introduce you to the next sequel.
Stop.

The ending isn't designed to satisfy you, but only to make you angry for the sequel.

[TexasToast712]

Oneiropolos wrote...

Templar ending. It felt like I wasn't leaving friends out to hang... like Varric and Aveline. Their lives are in Kirkwall now. What happens when they have to run with you? We don't know, and we aren't told. We do know Varric STILL hasn't changed clothes three years later... So at least he's not down to selling the shirt off his back. Then again, playing through as a mage, I kinda felt some hope for Anders when I let him live. I still kinda wanted to kill him. But his reaction at me letting him live felt like "Anders" and not "Janders". Also, I felt like if Justice was still so predominant, he'd have surfaced against Meredith. But he didn't. At least, Anders eyes weren't glowing blue in that fight that I saw. It seemed like maybe Vengeance had finally calmed down. I dunno. Doesn't excuse what Anders did, but it seemed like Anders was hoping for a better future instead of feeling like things were a lost cause.

So there's ups and downs to both, but man, having all the templars kneel to you in the Templar ending is epic. I have to go with that one. Plus it means my friends can keep living where they want even if for some odd reason, Varric says they all leave me. It's like "Eh? They left between three years ago and now and I disappeared some point between then and now? What does leave mean? What about Aveline and Varric? The others don't have attachment to Kirkwall, but Varric's always really lived there and Aveline is captain of the guard and married to a guardman. You don't just up and leave!" It makes me wonder, since we're given no chance to talk to companions AFTER the defining battle at the end.

Companions leaving will be retconned for the inevitable Expansion. Just like they did with the Epilogue for Origins. My Warden was supposed to be out running around with Sten stealing people's cookies but nope, it was retconned to my Warden going to clean up the mess at Vigil's Keep.

[Alexein]

I liked the templar ending more for Bethany actually.

If Bethany joined the circle and you fight for the templars you see bethany practically ball her eyes out when we find Orsino was partially responsible for Leandra's death (in helping Quentin). Then when Orsino died and bethany was wailing over the corpse you can step in to protect her from meredith. Then you two reconcile despite initially being on opposite sides.

That really tugged at my heart strings, even more so than the Grey-warden versions or templar-carver. Despite most of the game emotionally slamming us around that reconciliation sequence was the one shining moment that really made the game for me. Gave me a glimmer of hope that in that hell a tiny sliver of good can come out.

Cullen stepping in with reason and wisdom sealed the deal.

Templar ending with Circle-Bethany and Cullen!

[Shockwave Pulsar]

The Templar ending made me feel like a murderer because the Templars just killed every mage, even though they were just standing there not attacking or harming anyone. The cutscene where the Templars run into the courtyard and slash all the mages didn't look like a fight, but slaughter.
Meredith also feels very forced on the Templar side : 'Thanks for siding with me, meet me outside' *goes outside' 'Now I go insane and want to kill you for no apparent reason, just because you need a final boss, haha !!!'
But you can't really speak of two endings, because some dialog chances aside, they're the same.

Edit : As so many speak for the Templar side because of Cullen : He also turns against Meredith in the mage version.

Modifié par Balthamoss, 21 mars 2011 - 09:13 .

[Alexein]

Balthamoss its not so much as what he does that makes him interesting, but how deeply you can get into his story.

On the mage side you don't see cullen explaining how the circle can be saved. On the templar side you do and this casts him in a slightly different light cause you can see what he's thinking.

Same thing with bethany, She's the same person yes, but the perspective of each side casts her in a different light.

So no, they're not the same.

[Oneiropolos]

Balthamoss wrote...

The Templar ending made me feel like a murderer because the Templars just killed every mage, even though they were just standing there not attacking or harming anyone. The cutscene where the Templars run into the courtyard and slash all the mages didn't look like a fight, but slaughter.
Meredith also feels very forced on the Templar side : 'Thanks for siding with me, meet me outside' *goes outside' 'Now I go insane and want to kill you for no apparent reason, just because you need a final boss, haha !!!'
But you can't really speak of two endings, because some dialog chances aside, they're the same.

Edit : As so many speak for the Templar side because of Cullen : He also turns against Meredith in the mage version.

But the templar ending is the only ending that actually gives you a chance to go "Uh, no, you're not killing the mages that just came and begged for mercy from me." The mage ending, Orsino is the one who seems forced, "Yes, we're totally having no troubl...why are you becoming a huge.. GAH!" Plus, Cullen is awesome when you do decide to spare the mages that came to you for help in the Templar ending. He outright defies Meredith right there, saying they will be spared and to obey the champion. Meredith's look at you made her turning on you in the courtyard totally understandable. She wanted you -dead-. Her Templars were already picking you over her. Then they agree to arrest you, but stand up against her when she says she's going to kill you . I think Meredith's crazy is led up to rather well. Orsino's.... not so much. He was desperate, but it wasn't necessary. He didn't have to become a creature that tries to kill his ALLIES TOO. 

[Ealos]

What is the difference in the long run? I've sided with mages, which seems to mean that a tiny portion of mages survive and then the city is held by the Templars anyway... the other option seems to be Templars kill all mages and leave you in control. Is that the only difference (in terms of long term consequences)? Option 1 has some survivors and an exiled champ, option 2 no survivors and a viscount champ?

[Shockwave Pulsar]

Oneiropolos wrote...

But the templar ending is the only ending that actually gives you a chance to go "Uh, no, you're not killing the mages that just came and begged for mercy from me." The mage ending, Orsino is the one who seems forced, "Yes, we're totally having no troubl...why are you becoming a huge.. GAH!" Plus, Cullen is awesome when you do decide to spare the mages that came to you for help in the Templar ending. He outright defies Meredith right there, saying they will be spared and to obey the champion. Meredith's look at you made her turning on you in the courtyard totally understandable. She wanted you -dead-. Her Templars were already picking you over her. Then they agree to arrest you, but stand up against her when she says she's going to kill you . I think Meredith's crazy is led up to rather well. Orsino's.... not so much. He was desperate, but it wasn't necessary. He didn't have to become a creature that tries to kill his ALLIES TOO. 

I get that it's great to see Cullen's reasoning, but that's only one character and still doesn't make me want to slaughter all the innocent mages. I also get that it's great to tell Meredith not to kill those mages that come begging to you, but I rather not help her kill them in the first place.
Yes, Orsino makes little sense on the mage side, but that still doesn't make me want to kill all the other mages who have nothing to do with him. It's the overall 'Let's storm the building and kill every single mage because of one mage's (Anders) crime' attitude which *I* don't like about the Templar ending ;-)
What I meant with endings being the same: no matter what you decide the same stuff happens, you both fight Orsino and Meredith, one of them feels forced on either side, the Templars turn on Meredith and you get the same cutscenes (and Zevran randomly appears to help lol).

[TobiTobsen]

Balthamoss wrote...

Oneiropolos wrote...

But the templar ending is the only ending that actually gives you a chance to go "Uh, no, you're not killing the mages that just came and begged for mercy from me." The mage ending, Orsino is the one who seems forced, "Yes, we're totally having no troubl...why are you becoming a huge.. GAH!" Plus, Cullen is awesome when you do decide to spare the mages that came to you for help in the Templar ending. He outright defies Meredith right there, saying they will be spared and to obey the champion. Meredith's look at you made her turning on you in the courtyard totally understandable. She wanted you -dead-. Her Templars were already picking you over her. Then they agree to arrest you, but stand up against her when she says she's going to kill you . I think Meredith's crazy is led up to rather well. Orsino's.... not so much. He was desperate, but it wasn't necessary. He didn't have to become a creature that tries to kill his ALLIES TOO. 

I get that it's great to see Cullen's reasoning, but that's only one character and still doesn't make me want to slaughter all the innocent mages. I also get that it's great to tell Meredith not to kill those mages that come begging to you, but I rather not help her kill them in the first place.
Yes, Orsino makes little sense on the mage side, but that still doesn't make me want to kill all the other mages who have nothing to do with him. It's the overall 'Let's storm the building and kill every single mage because of one mage's (Anders) crime' attitude which *I* don't like about the Templar ending ;-)

Uhm.... on the Mage side you kill every single mage you encounter, just like in the templar ending.  Instead of convincing the other Templars and Cullen from your point of view they'll have to follow Meredith orders. The only sane mages in the mage ending (the group at the docks) will probably get slaughtered after you leave.

[jacksmedula1]

I liked the ending where Orsino turns into Chet and then Meredith goes crazy... oh, wait.. that IS both endings..

OP's question is about as dumb as asking someone if they like eggs and bacon or bacon and eggs.

[Shockwave Pulsar]

TobiTobsen wrote...
Uhm.... on the Mage side you kill every single mage you encounter, just like in the templar ending.  Instead of convincing the other Templars and Cullen from your point of view they'll have to follow Meredith orders. The only sane mages in the mage ending (the group at the docks) will probably get slaughtered after you leave.

There's only one single blood mage at the docks AFAIK, the rest are all abominations. And my point was killing all for one person's crime. It's like randomly killing every moslim on the street because a fanatical islamist blew himself up in Afghanistan.

Modifié par Balthamoss, 21 mars 2011 - 10:08 .

[Aigyl]

Balthamoss wrote...

I get that it's great to see Cullen's reasoning, but that's only one character and still doesn't make me want to slaughter all the innocent mages. I also get that it's great to tell Meredith not to kill those mages that come begging to you, but I rather not help her kill them in the first place.
Yes, Orsino makes little sense on the mage side, but that still doesn't make me want to kill all the other mages who have nothing to do with him. It's the overall 'Let's storm the building and kill every single mage because of one mage's (Anders) crime' attitude which *I* don't like about the Templar ending ;-)
What I meant with endings being the same: no matter what you decide the same stuff happens, you both fight Orsino and Meredith, one of them feels forced on either side, the Templars turn on Meredith and you get the same cutscenes (and Zevran randomly appears to help lol).

The Templars don't actually kill all the mages, they take prisoners if the mage doesn't use blood magic. They defy Meredith

Anyway, yes, I preferred the Templar side. I feel it was better executed than the mage side. It makes a lot more sense.
 

[The Lesser Evil]

Ealos wrote...

What is the difference in the long run? I've sided with mages, which seems to mean that a tiny portion of mages survive and then the city is held by the Templars anyway... the other option seems to be Templars kill all mages and leave you in control. Is that the only difference (in terms of long term consequences)? Option 1 has some survivors and an exiled champ, option 2 no survivors and a viscount champ?

Option 2 has survivors too. You'll encounter Mages that surrender in the courtyard, and while Meredith wants them dead you get the option to protect them. Cullen will then openly oppose Meredith and say that there's still Mages who can be saved.

I didn't actually notice any surviving mages in the Gallows when I sided with the mages on my Mage!Hawke... There's a few when you're making your way through Kirkwall, but once you're done with Orsino there's not a single mage left alive...

[vengerturtle]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

I was actually surprised at how much I liked Cullen. He went from being a character I couldn't stand in Origins to being one I simply disagreed with.

It was the same for me. I don't quite know why, but I find him a lot more interesting and fleshed out after DA2. I wouldn't have expected Cullen to be the voice of reason in the middle of the madness after DA1, but he grew up a lot, apparently.

I don't know, I didn't like siding with the templars because it feels like agreeing to murder a bunch of people, so I didn't really at first. It just bothered me to do that. But at the same time, siding with the templars gives you an in to stop it before everyone dies, which is not something I would have expected going in. I just wanted the ending that killed the least people, since there are good mages and good templars caught between Meredith and Orsino's insanity.