49 réponses à ce sujet

[naomis8329]

 Ok, played through quite a few times now and after my initial surprise and horror at what Anders did, I replayed the ending a few times and then played through three more characters.

Has anyone else noticed the ending yet, that Anders/Justice is not dead???

There are some give aways here. 

1st time I played it I romanced Anders and at the end ran off with him (I was a mage and we bonded, what can I say). I then played the same character and killed him.

2nd time I did the same thing but as a rogue ie romanced and ran then killed and stayed.

I've noticed two things.

1. When you "kill" Anders/Justice you do so with a toothpick and stab him in the back. To kill him wouldn't you behead him or at least cut his throat to make sure??? The other thing is in the cutscene his eyes do not glaze or close as they do with other NPC's.

2. When Cassandra finishes interviewing Varric and goes to talk to Leliana she says something along the lines of "the Champion has disappeared along with "that" mage......". You get this line whether you run off with Anders or stay, ergo "that mage" is Anders which then means that Anders is not dead.

There is something else here also, when I ran back up the stairs to grab a barrel I hadn't pilfered I noticed that all the other bodies were there but not Anders. I took a look with the other run throughs and this was the same each time. Also you don't get to loot him before you go.

These things at least say to me that Anders definitely mean that you haven't killed Anders. He's gonna come back at some point to carry on the revolution. Maybe he can't die because of Justice or maybe its Justice not Anders who now inhabits the body (remember folks that Justice does take over Kristoff's body and he was dead some time.).

Either way its a very interesting scenario and I can now rest easy knowing that I haven't actually killed one of my favourite characters and there may be a hope of redeeming him in the futre.

Let me know what you think...... 

[Maria Caliban]

Nothing survives the murder knife. Nothing.

naomis8329 wrote...

2. When Cassandra finishes interviewing Varric and goes to talk to Leliana she says something along the lines of "the Champion has disappeared along with "that" mage......". You get this line whether you run off with Anders or stay, ergo "that mage" is Anders which then means that Anders is not dead.

I did not get that line.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 21 mars 2011 - 08:44 .

[TexasToast712]

I killed him simply because I know Bioware and I know that just like Leliana, Bioware loves Anders to the point of resurrecting them both no matter what your import says. It will go down like this in DA3

*Warden and Anders bump into each other on a street corner*

Warden: Anders? Is that you? Hey, how have you been buddy?

Anders: Oh I went to Kirkwall and ended up getting stabbed in the back by some douchebag..........

*Hawke walks around the corner*

Vengence: ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!

Hawke and Warden:  ...........That cant be good.........

[TexasToast712]

The Anders I knew and was good friends with in Awakenings died at somepoint between leaving the Grey Wardens and coming to Kirkwall. That murderer of innocents in DAII was not Anders as far as Iam concerned.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 21 mars 2011 - 08:53 .

[naomis8329]

That was my thought exactly. Anders was the conscience of the group in Awakenings always striving to do the "right" thing without hurting those around him. This is so out of character I cried after the "event" I must admit as I couldn't believe what he'd done.

[Pandaman102]

That may not be a great honking "dagger" like the rogues dual wield, but it's long enough that it'll get anyone dead when jammed in the right place. Would've been nice to drop a statue on him to make extra sure though.

[Alexein]

Then get some mages together and go into the fade to hunt down and kill justice/vengeance.

make absolutely sure no piece of him gets off easy.

[Urbanus Venator]

This may be slightly off topic, but what I've always wondered is that if you take the option to kill Anders, does the spirit inside him return to the Fade as Justice? Or Vengeance?

[Maria Caliban]

Urbanus Venator wrote...

This may be slightly off topic, but what I've always wondered is that if you take the option to kill Anders, does the spirit inside him return to the Fade as Justice? Or Vengeance?

That's an excellent question.

[MICHELLE7]

Urbanus Venator wrote...

This may be slightly off topic, but what I've always wondered is that if you take the option to kill Anders, does the spirit inside him return to the Fade as Justice? Or Vengeance?

Interesting...I would think that Justice can't be Vengence without Anders so if he returned to the Fade wouldn't that mean that a part of Anders returned with him? just a thought.

[CrashTagger]

I believe Justice is far from dead... And I believe he's not Justice anymore, but Vengeance. But it'll be ridiculous to see Anders standing back up, but then again so did Leliana

[Urbanus Venator]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Urbanus Venator wrote...

This may be slightly off topic, but what I've always wondered is that if you take the option to kill Anders, does the spirit inside him return to the Fade as Justice? Or Vengeance?

Interesting...I would think that Justice can't be Vengence without Anders so if he returned to the Fade wouldn't that mean that a part of Anders returned with him? just a thought.

Ah yes, Vengeance fed off Anders anger. I vaguely remember Anders saying that Justice transformed when they joined, never did clarify whether it was a permanent change though. As for a part of Anders returning with Justice to the Fade, I'm not sure. The whole thing with what happens to a possessed mage in death is never really mentioned anywhere, as far as I can tell.

[Mox Ruuga]

I would guess the spirit remains Vengeance.

But does it return to the Fade? There's an irresistible option for cheap dramatics for DA3, having it possess another character.

The fangirls have been clamoring for Cullen to return. How about it devs? Have Vengeance possess Cullen, it'd be "awesome"...

Then they can have their LI!Cullen, now properly emofied and crazy, of course.

[EDarkness]

I wouldn't be surprised if Anders lives in another game. I guess in some way, it would make sense of the epilogue in Awakening. Anders does what he needs to do, fakes dying, then returns to the Grey Wardens to live out the rest of his days.

[Spooky81]

Neither Justice or Vengeance. After church goes bye bye, he says theyre merged as one being. Call it Justers or Angeance, either way if the spirit returns to fade he'll be carrying extra luggage.

[Pandaman102]

CrashTagger wrote...

I believe Justice is far from dead... And I believe he's not Justice anymore, but Vengeance. But it'll be ridiculous to see Anders standing back up, but then again so did Leliana

Why? Justice originally inhabited the rotting corpse of that Warden in Awakening, why can't he inhabit the fresh corpse of Anders?

[TexasToast712]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Urbanus Venator wrote...

This may be slightly off topic, but what I've always wondered is that if you take the option to kill Anders, does the spirit inside him return to the Fade as Justice? Or Vengeance?

That's an excellent question.

Technically, he could just take control of Anders body once Anders is truly dead. Justice mentions in conversation in Awakenings you cant kill him by normal means.

[Taleroth]

I demand trial by jury of his peers.

Get back to me when you find 8-12 abominations willing to sit through a trial.

[CrashTagger]

Pandaman102 wrote...

CrashTagger wrote...

I believe Justice is far from dead... And I believe he's not Justice anymore, but Vengeance. But it'll be ridiculous to see Anders standing back up, but then again so did Leliana

Why? Justice originally inhabited the rotting corpse of that Warden in Awakening, why can't he inhabit the fresh corpse of Anders?

Having the same concept again will "tire" the game. Make a cameo, like, Anders coming back from the dead for a fight, it's fine by me. But having an undead companion again...

[Rinji the Bearded]

Taleroth wrote...

I demand trial by jury of his peers.

Get back to me when you find 8-12 abominations willing to sit through a trial.

"May we pause the trial?  One of the jurors has gone into a violent twitching fit."

[naomis8329]

Now you're getting there lol. You've realised that Justice took a decayed body, why not overtake Anders in a fresh "kill". However, was Anders ever really there at all when you consider everything you did. He was either completely mad with anger and the lust for vengence, or his spirit was not strong enough to control Justice and they merged to become Vengence and Anders was no more.

Either way I truly believe we will be seeing a great deal more of our renegade mage and Cullen in DA3.

The feed back from you guys is amazing, and is helping me think through things from the game so keep it up guys.....

[naomis8329]

I think the point to be made here is that Anders will return either as himself or, most likely, as the spirit of Vengance and go on a rampage worth watching in his bid to set the mages free.

The battle with the Chantry is one I've hoped we would see and the fact that it could end up back in Fereldan is one I'd enjoy as I love Fereldan to pieces. Especially if the Champion is found and rallies the Templars to rout the blood mages and assist the true mages in their bid for freedom and equality.

Then Alistair could come back, Zev, Leli, Wynne and a cast of thousands and what fun that would be lol

[AlexXIV]

I think with Leliana and Anders Bioware thought ... hm how many people actually killed Leliana or Anders in their playthrough. Oh, 0.1%? Well in that case ...

At the end of DA2 though I think the percentage of people who killed Anders is much higher.

[Lithuasil]

Am I the only one thinking, especially with Merills "there's no such thing as a good spirit" banter in mind, that justice is, and has always been, a really, really clever rage demon?

[Taleroth]

naomis8329 wrote...

I think the point to be made here is that Anders will return either as himself or, most likely, as the spirit of Vengance and go on a rampage worth watching in his bid to set the mages free. 

I think the point is that you're really stretching.