134 réponses à ce sujet

[scoville.unit]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

It's a deeper issue and more serious issue than body types, not accepting someone because of the colour of their skin is disgraceful. I see a lot of people say it is due to personal taste and then they go on to say I would never have a relationship with a black person, thats not a preference thats discrimination.. 

This
seems like an inconsistent position to take. Claiming that
"discriminating" against a person based on skin color is
somehow worse than discriminating against someone  for another
reason is making the same sort of hierarchical judgment you are
assigning to the mod makers. Also - your statement is completely an
unwarranted assertion that you've not supported at all. If you want to advocate treating people for who they actually are and not what they are, I would say that making qualifications prevents you from actually reaching that goal. 

I'd take further issue with whether or not one can actually discriminate against a video game character. I would say that you cannot. And it seems an especially odd complaint in a game where one can murder people for money and take a slave possibly (I dunno - I always hire her...) 

[Brimleydower]

Antinate wrote...

Personally, I agree wholeheartedly with the OP and most people that have replied to this topic who are saying that the OP is reading too much into it are perhaps not reading into it enough. On the one hand, I think society needs to ease it with being politically correct and recognizing issues when they're there, but where are the mods to give Anders, Fenris, Merrill, Aveline, etc. darker skin?

You guys need to understand the real implications here. You might not think it's racist to to be, "Yeah, I want to have this mod with Isabela having lighter skin; big deal, wanna fight about it?" But look at the message this is sending out. "Isabela would be so much better if only she had lighter skin." Being brutally honest, in this day and age, characters of color in most entertainment are generally considered the "token character of color." Notice that Isabela is the only character on the roster with darker skin, and apparently that was unacceptable enough to warrant such a popular mod to "normalize" this party member.

Some people these days are too rigid and quick to call the "racism" card, I agree. But acknowledge these little subconscious, unspoken messages that are communicated. Don't even attempt to say that there's nothing there and people are reading too far into it, because there IS something there. The only reason why it's ambiguous is because the mod author didn't flat out say, "This mod is because people with dark skin suck." You guys need to not let your attempts to halt hyper-political-correctness get in the way of acknowledging when there's a negative message being sent out when there IS one. And if someone feels that this message is being communicated to them, then it's there.

Also, the post before the previous post makes one of the stupidest claims I have ever read. /end thread participation

As has been stated a hundred times all ready, that implication only exists because you're trying to see it.  You're trying to twist someone having a "favorite look" into being bigots, and that's why you're wrong.  This mod isn't a slight on any one or any race, and it is beyond ridiculous that any one could see it as such.

[aduellist]

Oh fer...

@CRISIS1717 and Antinate

Warning:  this mod is liable to make your heads explode:

www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php

It swaps several companion heads.  Here's the tricky part.

Isabela is changed to Leliana.   Lighter!

Aveline is changed to Cassandra.  Darker!

In short, if you are perceiving a message that isn't there, the problem lies with you and not the message.

Drop the outrage, step away from the racial conspiracy theories, and nobody gets hurt.

Modifié par aduellist, 22 mars 2011 - 03:28 .

[Rhys1984]

I like Isabela all dusky and alluring, it fits her, she is a pirate captain, out in the sea getting lots of sun. She is Rivaini isn't she, presumably the skin tone is her native shall we say colouration.

[Sunnie]

How about this... use a mod to change any character you want, it is your prerogative. if someone wants to change a character, what does it matter? They aren't changing it in YOUR GAME. This thread is literally a waste of time and bandwidth.

[Sabresandiego]

Here is my take on this argument. I am a 30 caucasian male half white and half pakistani and look something like my avatar or you can see my pic at myspace.com/sabresandiego.

Even though I am half white, nobody that sees me would ever consider me white, and although pakistani is classified as caucasian very few whites would label me as caucasian. I also shave my head, which makes some people think I even have some black in me although I dont. I can relate very well to how minorities feel because of my appearance.

So here is my perspective on things: Everybody has different tastes and that is fine and is not racist. Some people love chocolate, other people hate chocolate and think its bitter. Some people love broccoli and others hate broccoli. Just like taste, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Some guys like rail thin women with very few curves, some guys like flat girls with bubble butts, some guys like busty asian women, etc... Everyone has their own tastes.

That being said, while having a preference for something is fine, I think it is wrong to exclude people of a certain race because you find that race to be ugly. I have seen beautiful people from every single race on this planet and when someone says "I only find white people attractive" then yes they are racist because it goes beyond preference.

The media portrays white as beautiful, and people are led to believe white is beautiful from a very young age. There are many beautiful white people, but also many beautiful people from other races as well. Having a preference is very normal, unfortunately it seems that white is the most common preference and its not because whites are actually the better looking race, its because most people that play this game are white, most people in media are white, and most people are brainwashed into believing white is beautiful from a young age. To me, that is preference that has been deluded by society and is a form of racism.

Look at this black girl PIC

How can any straight male, regardless of whether or not they prefer black women, reject her for being black unless they are racist? She is gorgeous.

Things like being obese are much different then race, because our genetics are coded to find healthy people attractive and being obese is not healthy. Being black, or asian, or philipino, or iraqi, or russian has nothing to do with health, and whether or not you find the race attractive has to do with your own genetic preferences and social influence. There are some races which I am not attracted to at all, but I do not blacklist them because even they will have someone who I find attractive because they are human and so am I.

So in the end, I think the mod is fine, but it does have unlikable racial undertones about it. Its popularity also reflects on how whitewashed most people are, and how little people see beauty in diversity in 2011.As for me Ill take the girl in the pic and the dark Isabella, thankyou.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 22 mars 2011 - 03:55 .

[svendigo]

Perhaps it's because I come from a part of the world where matters of race almost don't exist at all, but I find the original post of this thread ridiculous and petty.

To the OP: It seems that you're the one with the racial issues, not the modders. You see offence where there isn't any, and people are entitled to their own preferences... especially when it comes to physical attraction.

[Atrivion]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Here is my take on this argument. I am a 30 caucasian male half white and half pakistani and look something like my avatar or you can see my pic at myspace.com/sabresandiego.

Even though I am half white, nobody that sees me would ever consider me white, and although pakistani is classified as caucasian very few whites would label me as caucasian. I also shave my head, which makes some people think I even have some black in me although I dont. I can relate very well to how minorities feel because of my appearance.

So here is my perspective on things: Everybody has different tastes and that is fine and is not racist. Some people love chocolate, other people hate chocolate and think its bitter. Some people love broccoli and others hate broccoli. Just like taste, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Some guys like rail thin women with very few curves, some guys like flat girls with bubble butts, some guys like busty asian women, etc... Everyone has their own tastes.

That being said, while having a preference for something is fine, I think it is wrong to exclude people of a certain race because you find that race to be ugly. I have seen beautiful people from every single race on this planet and when someone says "I only find white people attractive" then yes they are racist because it goes beyond preference.

The media portrays white as beautiful, and people are led to believe white is beautiful from a very young age. There are many beautiful white people, but also many beautiful people from other races as well. Having a preference is very normal, unfortunately it seems that white is the most common preference and its not because whites are actually the better looking race, its because most people that play this game are white, most people in media are white, and most people are brainwashed into believing white is beautiful from a young age. To me, that is preference that has been deluded by society and is a form of racism.

Look at this black girl PIC

How can any straight male, regardless of whether or not they prefer black women, reject her for being black unless they are racist? She is gorgeous.

Things like being obese are much different then race, because our genetics are coded to find healthy people attractive and being obese is not healthy. Being black, or asian, or philipino, or iraqi, or russian has nothing to do with health, and whether or not you find the race attractive has to do with your own genetic preferences and social influence. There are some races which I am not attracted to at all, but I do not blacklist them because even they will have someone who I find attractive because they are human and so am I.

So in the end, I think the mod is fine, but it does have unlikable racial undertones about it. Its popularity also reflects on how whitewashed most people are, and how little people see beauty in diversity in 2011.As for me Ill take the girl in the pic and the dark Isabella, thankyou.

As far as im aware i dont think anyone in this thread said that nothing other than white people are gorgeous.
There is a ****load of gorgeous ladies from all around the world, i agree with you on that.
And on the subject of obese, and still some people prefere them over skinny, so yet again it comes down to preferences!

This thread should just die already.

[Atrivion]

Sabresandiego are you sabre17 on dragonagenexus? Just asking since i just saw a post that featured the same black girl pic.

The black girl in that post is more "hotter" than the white girl in the same post, in my eyes, yes.
That doesn't prove **** to be honest since I personally find say Lindsay Lohan to be more hot than that black girl.
So your point in trying to compare like that is moot. If it is you. Just an asumption and forgive me if im wrong.

Edit. spelling errors.

Modifié par Atrivion, 22 mars 2011 - 05:35 .

[Sabresandiego]

To be honest, while having aesthetic preferences is normal and fine, its just sad there there is already a mod to turn the only non-white character in the entire game white.

[Augtastic]

I agree completely with the OP.

Making a mod that changes the pixel colors of a figment of someone's imagination is equal if not worse to forbidding people who don't look like us or have the same ideals as we do from marrying, voting, going out in public with us, having equal rights, or using the same doors and bathrooms as us. It's outrageous really, we should drag the mod creaters before the supreme court and oust them for being e-racists!

[XJ347]

Augtastic wrote...

I agree completely with the OP.

Making a mod that changes the pixel colors of a figment of someone's imagination is equal if not worse to forbidding people who don't look like us or have the same ideals as we do from marrying, voting, going out in public with us, having equal rights, or using the same doors and bathrooms as us. It's outrageous really, we should drag the mod creaters before the supreme court and oust them for being e-racists!

I see you picked the sacrastic option number two on the discission bar, you choose well!

[ashwind]

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein

Modifié par ashwind, 22 mars 2011 - 09:07 .

[foxunit]

Sabresandiego :"To be honest, while having aesthetic preferences is normal and fine, its just sad there there is already a mod to turn the only non-white character in the entire game white. "

The thing is, you cant force somebody to find someone attractive. Maybe the modder likes Isabella, but doesnt find her attractive. Since this is a game, he is able to change that and that is that.

Oh and btw I dont find your pic attractive, I prefer tomboyish girls, so am I a racist? No I just dont feel attracted to her, period.

I dont care about race, what does the color of the skin matter anyway?

Modifié par foxunit, 22 mars 2011 - 09:25 .

[CRISIS1717]

ashwind wrote...

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein

There are EA account bans flying around and you still break the rules by flaming? 

[Fortlowe]

Mod or no, Isabela is caucasian, as is every other human within the DA universe. So although I am offended that even the suggestion that she is anything but white has to be eliminated by some people with a mod, it is not really suprising. Just like every other 'race' caucasians have a spectrum of different skintones, from the very fair to the very dark (see 'The Hills' and 'Jersey Shore' for examples). Deal with it. Frankly, as a black man that really loves this series, I've made my peace with the absence of black people in it, as I am sure consumers of similar backgrounds have as well.

Mostly, this is a hardware limitation, I think (or hope). There are only so many different skintones and hairstyles that can be included within the range. The range of consumers of African decent, or even those that would elect to play as a protagonist of African descent (because ultimately all of the NPC's come from the same character creator we use, even if that is more robust than the one we use), is simply not significant enough to include hair and skin models to support the amount of resources needed to properly reflect anything but a token* representation of that population.

This is sad. More so becuase it reflects the status quo of the real world. However, it is what it is. I hope, but unfortunately most definitely do not expect, for this to change in the future (2015). And not only cosmetically. But that is a different topic. For now, I just really wish one day Hawke and Warden could have hair and skin like mine. I do not think this is too much to ask, especially when more powerful hardware (2015) becomes available.


*Cornrows. (Really? Again? grown males of ANY 'race' don't wear those unless they are on vacation in Mexico or they are stupid. Please replace this with 'Jacob's haircut.)

Modifié par Fortlowe, 22 mars 2011 - 09:28 .

[atheelogos]

I haven't seen it. Can someone post some pics?

[atheelogos]

ashwind wrote...

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein

Nice:lol:

[scylis]

*chooses the Red option*

I don't care about any of this at all, this is a forum for modding ####! Go back to modding #### or go away!

[CRISIS1717]

foxunit wrote...

I dont care about race, what does the color of the skin matter anyway?

True it doesn't matter, why then does a mod exist to make Isabella whiter?

[foxunit]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

foxunit wrote...

I dont care about race, what does the color of the skin matter anyway?

True it doesn't matter, why then does a mod exist to make Isabella whiter?

Are you really that dense?

[ashwind]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

ashwind wrote...

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein

There are EA account bans flying around and you still break the rules by flaming? 

I am simply quoting Einstein. 

Flaming? So I find that you are making a big fuss out of nothingness for your own amusement AND attacking the mod maker and its users just because you do not approve????

You are entitled to your ideas and so do we all. I find a quote that best express my response to this non-existing issue. Make what you will about it.

And if you honestly think that I am flaming, feel free to send my post for review.

[CRISIS1717]

foxunit wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

foxunit wrote...

I dont care about race, what does the color of the skin matter anyway?

True it doesn't matter, why then does a mod exist to make Isabella whiter?

Are you really that dense?

Why is it that people in the modding section are far more hostile? as far as I know the rules apply here too, do people here think that mods are less likely to see it?

As for your comment you are contradicting yourself you say it doesn't matter what skintone they are and then you say people can't force themselves to be attracted. Clearly it either does or it doesn't matter to you but you haven't made your mind up lol...

[foxunit]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

foxunit wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

foxunit wrote...

I dont care about race, what does the color of the skin matter anyway?

True it doesn't matter, why then does a mod exist to make Isabella whiter?

Are you really that dense?

Why is it that people in the modding section are far more hostile? as far as I know the rules apply here too, do people here think that mods are less likely to see it?

As for your comment you are contradicting yourself you say it doesn't matter what skintone they are and then you say people can't force themselves to be attracted. Clearly it either does or it doesn't matter to you but you haven't made your mind up lol...

Oh man, ok let me explain this as simple as possible, since you do not seem to get it. You like certain aethetic aspects, like it or not, that is fact. If someone does not bear those traits, you might be not attracted to them, simple as that. That is not a matter of skin color, there are many aspects to it, skin is but one of them.

So what it boils down to in the modding scene is the following:

"You dont like it, you change it." If one is not attracted to a character, he changes that.

That itself is NOT an issue of race.

Modifié par foxunit, 22 mars 2011 - 09:52 .

[CRISIS1717]

ashwind wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

ashwind wrote...

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein

There are EA account bans flying around and you still break the rules by flaming? 

I am simply quoting Einstein. 

Flaming? So I find that you are making a big fuss out of nothingness for your own amusement AND attacking the mod maker and its users just because you do not approve????

You are entitled to your ideas and so do we all. I find a quote that best express my response to this non-existing issue. Make what you will about it.

And if you honestly think that I am flaming, feel free to send my post for review.

This is a mature dicussion about this issue if you want to try and derail it with comments which essentially amount to "this topic is stupid" and "you people are stupid" then don't bother posting at all. The mods aren't stupid and it's clear that you are troll baiting and if your defense is it's unrelated and you just felt like quoting Einstein then you are spamming.