14 réponses à ce sujet

[Stardusk78]

I am not giving hard stats but the fact is Shield Bash is activated and costs stamina; Fenris, even without Claymore, has a rough 40% chance with his spec added to crit hit+ Sunder....I have noticed he is a much better staggerer than Aveline.

On my current build I am using Fenris as a Stagger tank; I don't use him to be a damager; he has been optimised to get crits that Stagger than Merrill or Anders can take care of via Chain Lightning or my own Rogue with enhanced lacerate and enhanced explosive strike...I find he staggers in a certain sense far more reliably than Aveline would with Shield Bash just because it is a passive for him, with larger mobs, he is FAR better but also in General; with Claymore, he is a Stagger Monster.

Test it yourself and you will see what I mean...

[theangryllama]

Eh its preference, 2h will get staggers from sunder on crits and hits in a larger arc. sns hits faster and so can get more claymore procs as well as shield bash which is 10s and a guarenteed stagger. Personally I'm running with aveline and going more for the sns route which nabs me pommel strike and sheild bash as guarenteed staggers on 10s cooldowns and tremor which is an AoE 40% chance over the random chance of sunder/cleave.
Basically its chance vs fixed it can be much higher at times but statistically theres also times you wish you had something staggered and it just hasnt procced

[Stardusk78]

theangryllama wrote...

Eh its preference, 2h will get staggers from sunder on crits and hits in a larger arc. sns hits faster and so can get more claymore procs as well as shield bash which is 10s and a guarenteed stagger. Personally I'm running with aveline and going more for the sns route which nabs me pommel strike and sheild bash as guarenteed staggers on 10s cooldowns and tremor which is an AoE 40% chance over the random chance of sunder/cleave.
Basically its chance vs fixed it can be much higher at times but statistically theres also times you wish you had something staggered and it just hasnt procced

Since Upgraded Chain Lightning hits multiples, I would argue Fenris is the better bet here.

[ezrafetch]

Shield Bash has a 100% chance to stagger every 10s. That plus giving Aveline Cleave + Claymore makes the argument pretty moot. About the same staggering capabilities. I've started rolling with Aveline a lot more since I don't want to get randomly obliterated by a friendly 2H attack.  It's about the same, really.  I would say Aveline overall is a bit better since Shield Bash allows you to reliably stagger bosses for stuff like Crushing Prison + Paralyzing Prison.

edit: Also, Shield Bash CAN hit multiples, but that's more gravy than mashed potato.

Modifié par ezrafetch, 21 mars 2011 - 11:41 .

[Malanek]

With a run through I did on hard with Merill + Primal/Force mage and Aveline, I gave Aveline Pommel strike and Tremor/Quake in addition to Shield bash and she staggered quite a bit. Its interesting but I assumed Shield bash was a single target skill, but when I was Pull of The abyssing large groups into a single point, Aveline would reliably Bash and stagger 3, 4 or even 5 enemies. Two-handed does result in a larger number of staggers than W+S, but W+S can control when you generate them which is important for combos.

[Stardusk78]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

You're a DW Rogue, no? Aveline requires much less FF management. Fenris often swipe me in the face. I use both though - both STAGGER pretty well with Claymore. I think the choice depends on if you're facing bosses (Aveline with Indomitable) or mobs (Fenris with Battle Tempo).

Never had that problem with Fenris to be honest...

[Rehwyn]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Never had that problem with Fenris to be honest...

Are you playing on Nightmare? Because friendly fire isn't an issue on Hard or lower, but Fenris has an annoying tendency to one-shot my party members with Scythe or Whirlwind if I don't constantly micromanage him.

[LordAsael]

Fenris is a rather neat tank if you have no other melee party members on nightmare. If you're playing a dw rogue he'll make jelly of you if you're not incredibly careful.

[Atmosfear3]

How do you guys tank with Fenris? What exactly is the build and strategy that keeps him sturdy as a tank?

[BloodyRaw]

When you are playing at range sometimes it is difficult to see the stagger symbols when playing a mage. On higher levels the stagger effect is short as well, so controlling setup for stagger is best for "me" with Aveline.

Pull of the abyss - shield bash (stagger) - chain lighting
Gravitic ring next group - shield bash - hemorrhage
Another group comes either taunt with aveline to getem surrounding her - shield bash - fist of the maker or chain lighting with merril

Also if shield bash only hits 2 out of 6 enemies a quick tremor can get maybe 2 more staggers for my mage set up. Like I said a mage is all about CCC, so having control of the staggers is very important. A rogue is whatever, the enemy is dead staggered or not.

[naughty99]

When he's not murdering my other party members, he's definitely a lot better than Avelline at moving around the battlefield quickly to keep straggling melee enemies away from my ranged and mages. And if Avelline can take more damage, great, but if you kill everyone faster you don't have to sit around and take so much damage.

@ Atmosfear, I put a lot of points into Constitution and Strength, with a couple in Willpower. He can use Bolster or 2nd Wind, so he doesn't need that much Stamina. And I found a powerful hammer that provides 22% healing to this character, that's enough to make Anders heal him to full capacity when he casts Revive. (Anders also uses a staff that adds %21 healing by this character

• Lyrium Ghost
• the upgrade that makes him move faster when he kills someone is very helpful,
• Sunder is essential as well as all the CCC combo upgrades for Pommel Strike, Mighty Blow, Scythe
• Rally to boost everyone else's Mana/Stamina
• the upgrade that makes his damage increase up to 200% in inverse proportion to his health
• I want to get Cleave, Massacre and the upgrade that provides stamina every time he offs somebody, but haven't had enough extra talent points yet

Modifié par naughty99, 22 mars 2011 - 04:00 .

[Zan Mura]

Problem is in that Nightmare diff especially bosses can shrug STAGGER off in a second or two. Basically by the time you see the effect, depending on your CCC finisher, it's usually too late to do anything about it. Aveline's Shield Bash is as reliable as it gets, which makes precise timing based on it easy. You give the command, you know a second from then the enemy *will* be staggered. For example my Vendetta rogue takes some 0.5 - 1 second to actually hit home with the attack. And it will ALWAYS miss the window unless I execute that command before Aveline's Shield Bash even hits.

I absolutely agree that dealing with large groups of mobs, it's better to leave the staggering up to Fenris or a 2h in general.

Modifié par Zan Mura, 22 mars 2011 - 11:34 .

[BY-TOR STORMDRAGON]

I like Fenris and Aveline- but Fenris is locked! Is it because he HATES the main character? (I never could say one damn thing to the guy to keep from pissing him off!) I really like him on the team- I think next time I'll gamesave just to appease the sonsa****!!!

[Jman5]

Friendly fire aside, I found Aveline to be a more solid tank and more consistent/predictable with stagger. I gave her pommel, shield bash, and tremor so she had a she had a stagger ability ready at any time. Second Wind helped with any mana issues, but the enemy were almost always dead before I had to use it.

Of course an alternative is to do what I did and use both Aveline and Fenris.