231 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

sammcl wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
It's a factual statement. Knight-Commander Meredith orders the templars, "As Knight-Commander of Kirkwall, I hereby invoke the Right of Annulment. Every mage in the Circle is to be executed -- immediately!"

You misunderstood me, I completely agree with the point your making, I just can't stand that phrase. It's just used to make something sound worse, genocide is already horrific, you don't need to repeatedly use "men, women and children" we all know the group "mages" consists of those subcategories, neglecting one of the categories would not make genocide at all better

Considering how people repeatedly refer to the mages and the Circle as evil or cursed, I addressed it because it was a point that needed to be made. The Kirkwall Circle is more than simply the few blood mages we encounter - there are hundreds or thousands of people who are completely innocent of any wrongdoing in the attack against the Chantry.

sammcl wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
Well if you see some people argue here they seem to believe all the mages in the circle are bloodmages and of the worst kind. So you just have to make a point who they are going to annull. Same people who call Anders a terrorrist for killing innocents who were in the chantry at the time it blew up support Meredith in her genocidal crusade. If there is any logic behind that kind of reasoning it is 'angry mob' logic.

Yep, I understand the need for a counterpoint but being a man, woman or child and being a blood mage are not mutually exclusive states of existence. Honestly, it didn't bother me in LobselVith8's first post, but in almost every subsequent post when he/she used the phrase over and over it was like teeny, tiny men, women and children (oh no!) crawled into my ear and started tickling the inside of my head!

Again, absolutely agree with defending the mages, just that phrase bothers me Something simpler and less "Current Affairs programme-y" like "slaughter of innocents" gets the job done. Mix it up a little

Maybe you should try directing that towards the people who repeatedly call Anders a terrorist?

Modifié par LobselVith8, 24 mars 2011 - 07:27 .

[Vukodlak]

The Templar are good at only a few things, Oppressing mages and killing them when they turn bad. Of course the oppressing mages appears to be a major source of the bad ones. Remove every blood mage from the game who became one to fight the templars and your left with Quintin, Merrill and possibly yourself.

So beyond acting as a police force how do the Templar's help anyone? And when is a police state ever justified

[AlexXIV]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Maybe you should try directing that towards the people who repeatedly call Anders a terrorist?

Well I myself said it is an act of terrorism and it is, basically. Whether Anders is a terrorist though is maybe not exactly clear. There is a banter between him and Merrill I think. And they talk about doing something in the name of justice and thereby killing innocents, wouldn't the innocents also deserve justice? And Anders agrees. I am just curious how he is planning to bring justice to all those innocents who died and die because of him. I don't think Anders death will do them any justice. Basically I think Isabella is right saying that justice is a good idea in a world of ideas. Meaning, in the Fade, but probably not in our world.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 24 mars 2011 - 07:43 .

[CRISIS1717]

I believe siding with the Templars is the best choice, they maintain order which the mages are incapable of doing. Better to maintain order with an iron fist then let it descend into chaos and even more bloodshed.

It would be like getting rid of the moderators, for about 5 minutes it would be "yay freedom!" and then the forum would be unsalvageable as trolling, flaming and spamming descends upon it.

[Vukodlak]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

I believe siding with the Templars is
the best choice, they maintain order which the mages are incapable of
doing. Better to maintain order with an iron fist then let it descend
into chaos and even more bloodshed.

How do they maintain order? The ironfist of the templars led directly to the chaos and bloodshed at the end of act III. Most of the blood mages you fight in this game became so to fight the templars. What evidence do you base the assumption that mages can't? Rebelling against an oppressive reigme isn't evidence they can't have the same rights as everyone else.

Modifié par Vukodlak, 24 mars 2011 - 08:22 .

[Finnish Dragon]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

I believe siding with the Templars is the best choice, they maintain order which the mages are incapable of doing. Better to maintain order with an iron fist then let it descend into chaos and even more bloodshed.

It would be like getting rid of the moderators, for about 5 minutes it would be "yay freedom!" and then the forum would be unsalvageable as trolling, flaming and spamming descends upon it.

I agree. I will add that mages turning abominations or making treaties with demons can be much more dangerous than any templars. Just remember what kind of havoc Connor was able to do at Redcliff. Theoretically freedom for mages may sound good but the almost every member of the Kirkwall Circle is too immature to gain such a responsibility. I think only Bethany, after becoming a member of the circle, is mature enough to have such a freedom. 

In the end, mages can be very dangerous to the ordinary people. A mage, who is an abomination or who doesn´t know he/she is doing, can can be able to kill dozens of innocent people. I think that is the reason why Templars and the Chantry exists. In the end, I wonder how many people would like to have a mage who is specialized in fire spells to be his mentally unstable neighbor and being unable to buy a fire insurance at the same time.  

I wouldn´t trust the members of the Kirkwall Circle to have freedom without supervision. Meredith is a poor leader because she is too oppressive. The proper Knight-Commander should have compassion towards ordinary mages and at the same time that person should relentlessly hunt down abominations. I think the best possible Knight-Commander should be someone like Ser Gregoir from Dragon Age. He took his duty seriously and he didn´t oppress mages.

[sammcl]

Esmerella wrote...
This is a dark fantasy.  Mages are not respected or looked at as enlightened, they are feared.   The circles are in place as much to protect the mages from the populace as much as to control them.   Given that fear when the mob learns that their beloved religious leader, a women of tolerance and love was killed by a mage, do you think they will only hunt the one responsible?  They would want to kill all mages. That is mob mentality.

From my perspective that's not really justification for annullment, the mages aren't free in the city for mobs to hunt and endanger themselves. They're locked in the Gallows with an army of Templars protecting/oppressing them, Meredith has the resources to make her decision work.

LobselVith8 Wrote...
Maybe you should try directing that towards the people who repeatedly call Anders a terrorist?

The difference between use of "terrorist" and "men, women and children" is that terrorist is the concise term, it has become a scary word in recent times but it doesn't exist to make someone who is a terrorist seem even worse than they are. To do that you need to extend it to something like "freedom hating, war instigating, innocent murdering bastard" or something.

"Men, women and children" aims to inspire disgust by telling you women and children will die, the disgust is supposed to come from women and children being defenseless, so their deaths are even more horrific than if it was just the men. At least in the context of the game, female mages are no less capable than males, I don't think there's any physical requirements to casting magic that would give men a higher possible potential. The children are another story but that's not the point I was trying to make.

My point is that the annullment is bad enough as it is, people shouldn't need the deaths of children to sway their judgement. Apparently, however people do need the involvement of a family member O_o I've seen numerous responses saying they only sided with mages because Bethany was with them. And others saying they sided with the Templars because of Orsino's possible involvement in Leandra's death. It's pretty amazing how people will side with the crazy zealot just because one person happens to be on the other side, totally disregarding all the law abiding circle mages.

I won't reply about the phrase any more because I don't want it to devolve into an argument, lets just leave it at I hate the phrase, and you think it's necessary >_>