46 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

You're assuming the Qun has explicit political and policy requirements. It's based on a book of philosophy.

Does the Arishok have the authority to break the accord? Unlikely.
Does the Qun support his position? He would argue it does.

What matters is if the other two leaders agree with him or not.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 21 mars 2011 - 03:45 .

[Beerfish]

The Qunari are like a persons parents. "Don't do as I do, do as I say." In their minds they can do whatever the heck they want when they want and always come up with some justification.

[upsettingshorts]

Maria Caliban wrote...

You're assuming the Qun has explicit political and policy requirements. It's based on a book of philosophy.

Yes I am.  Though wouldn't that inevitably result in something akin to common law?

Maria Caliban wrote...

What matters is if the other two leaders agree with him or not.

Does it matter? 

Beerfish wrote...

In their minds they can do whatever the heck they want when they want and always come up with some justification.

I don't agree.

Also: Edited thread title to better reflect the flow of discussion/ask a more conclusive question.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 21 mars 2011 - 03:52 .

[_Aine_]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

You're assuming the Qun has explicit political and policy requirements. It's based on a book of philosophy.

Yes I am.  Though wouldn't that inevitably result in something akin to common law?

very likely a form of common or sacred law guided by their philosophy.  Not a guarantee of it of course, but  a great liklihood.  

[upsettingshorts]

I understood the Accord is treated as an armistice by the Qunari, and a peace treaty by Thedas. The difference being more or less what you describe - that the former is simply a recognition of the cessation of hostilities and not a commitment to peace.

[mesmerizedish]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I understood the Accord is treated as an armistice by the Qunari, and a peace treaty by Thedas. The difference being more or less what you describe - that the former is simply a recognition of the cessation of hostilities and not a commitment to peace.

I don't think that's something anyone can say without actually knowing the wording of the accord. What we do know (from writers' comments on the subject) is that the Qunari don't view "treaties" the same way humans do. On the one side, you have a promise. We know that Qunari are very honorable, and so they keep their word. Yay! Except that the Qunari don't view the document as any sort of honor-binding promise. It's just words on paper to them.

[EDIT] Raina's cute

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 21 mars 2011 - 04:18 .

[Maria Caliban]

shantisands wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

You're assuming the Qun has explicit political and policy requirements. It's based on a book of philosophy.

Yes I am.  Though wouldn't that inevitably result in something akin to common law?

very likely a form of common or sacred law guided by their philosophy.  Not a guarantee of it of course, but  a great liklihood.  

I doubt common law covers what to do when you've been sitting around a Bas city for 3 years looking for your most holy relic.

A sacred law would be up to the interpretation of the priesthood. The Arishok is not the priesthood.

[sonofalich]

Taleroth wrote...

Who says he's making and not following?

i had this in mind the entire time.

[Beerfish]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

In their minds they can do whatever the heck they want when they want and always come up with some justification.

I don't agree.

Also: Edited thread title to better reflect the flow of discussion/ask a more conclusive question.

They don't like lies but they are more than happy to be as decpetive as possible (The accord, not mentioning anything about wanting the book thief until the book is returned and lie about why they are in the city in the 1st place.)

They dislike the foulness of the city they are living in and yet they decide to wipe out innocents and take hostages. (Not to mention Sten in DA killing a whole family of innocents and stealing a fat kids cookies.)

They talk about having to take action against the city but apparently have been sitting on their ass for years in their compound not looking for their book.

[_Aine_]

Maria Caliban wrote...

A sacred law would be up to the interpretation of the priesthood. The Arishok is not the priesthood.

Priesthood is not necessary for a system of sacred law.  If the people were governed militarily, but their societal organization was based on what they considered holy script or even more simply "ultimate universal" principles, then the sacred law could in fact not be dictated by any priesthood (in fact, they may not even have priests!)  Instead it could be dictated by one true way according to their beliefs.  Interpretations on WHAT is the true way of course could be likely mixed.  

Not saying it is this was with the Qun, just saying a people *could* be ruled by a sacred connection to their own philosophy rather than to a disembodied being needing translation through a priesthood.   As it is still a symbol of their faith or doctrine or perhaps more accurately a way of living in accordance of their beliefs, it could still be considered sacred law.  If the people are militarily governed, there may be two co-existing forms of law or one ultimate principle of behaviour that fits within their cultural philosophy.  

But again, our definitions may hold absolutely no relevance within the Qun. That is why I find it so facinating.   Hopefully we get more lore ( or a search function on here again to search out what the writers have already told us)  

Modifié par shantisands, 21 mars 2011 - 04:45 .

[Xewaka]

I believe the role of the Arishok stranded in Kirkwall is that of a field commander: He has the ultimate responsibility on how to proceed on his mission. In addition, the military and foreign diplomatic branches in Qunari rulership are one and the same, so he also has to consider that his procedure is part of the Qun diplomatic effort.
You will notice how, whenever a new piece of information is presented to him, he will consider it before posing an answer. That's because he has to considerate all the ramifications that comes from his statements as head of Qun diplomacy in Kirkwall.

[Mahtisonni]

The Arishok governs the soldiers, the Arigena governs the craftsmen, and the Ariqun governs the priesthood.

Arishok has within his right to begin a war should it be beneficial or necessary to the "nation that must be".

Beresaad's duty is to protect the people of the Qun to till their last breath, for to do less would be sacriledge to them.

Arishok at the head of the Beresaad has one task during peace and that is to protect Qunari and the Qun. Viddathari were being threathened, so the task was clear and they realized also that without seizing power of that city, would that power eventually destroy them, should they merely stay on defensive.

Modifié par Mahtisonni, 22 mars 2011 - 12:15 .

[jarnaez]

shantisands wrote...

IF there is only one Arishok, I find it hard to believe they would be abandoned in Kirkwall over a relic. Wouldn't they just kill the one who had it lost under his command and carry on with things? I too am interested in the answer, because I likened the Arishok to a Leader of a mission. A large mission mind you, more like a Qun-goal Leader and that there were many goals/mission for the people of the Qun so several Arishoks.

I understand the Triumvirate but didn't necessarily think they were simply one person, almost like a country ran by three governmental parties, who perhaps *did* have an ultimate representative of their faction but still was comprised of more than one individual...

Would be very interesting to know. Google searches provide more speculation than fact.

Everything I know about the Qun ( little, admittedly) makes me think that the Arishok at least fully believed he was acting within his role for his purpose there.  They were too unwavering in their conviction. I think they would, if even tempted to step away from the Qun, kill themselves rather than live apart from the Qun.  Outside interpretation, even from within their own society, of course, may disagree with him. Who knows. 

He was there to recover what was implied to be the original Tome of Koslun, the book upon which their entire society is based upon. I doubt very much they'd just leave it and carry on.

[blothulfur]

The body of the qunari were tasked with the retrieval of the book of Koslun by the triumvirate and of such import was this matter that the Arishok stood forth to lead the body in deed as he has long done in word, if we had known then that we would be stranded in the cesspit of Kirkwall for so long by a ****s greed we would have brought elements of the mind and soul of the people so that we might be better understood and armed but ultimately the body of the qunari were tasked with the retrieval of the relic and they have therefore the power of command.

Whether it was right to try and save the cesspit from sinking into the abyss of unknowing is another matter, but the arishok was always a compassionate man and his heart must have been moved by the suffering the bas impose upon themselves in their ignorance.

Anaan esaam Qun.

[Beerfish]

blothulfur wrote...

The body of the qunari were tasked with the retrieval of the book of Koslun by the triumvirate and of such import was this matter that the Arishok stood forth to lead the body in deed as he has long done in word, if we had known then that we would be stranded in the cesspit of Kirkwall for so long by a ****s greed we would have brought elements of the mind and soul of the people so that we might be better understood and armed but ultimately the body of the qunari were tasked with the retrieval of the relic and they have therefore the power of command.

Whether it was right to try and save the cesspit from sinking into the abyss of unknowing is another matter, but the arishok was always a compassionate man and his heart must have been moved by the suffering the bas impose upon themselves in their ignorance.

Anaan esaam Qun.

Yeah the Qunari love to save people from themsleves by killing most of them.  Another in a long line of massively hypocritical aspects to them.  As I said earlier in this post they always find a way to justify their actions when they really do what the hell they want but want others to do the opposite.  Another case last night as I was playing the gunpowder quest.  My character complains that I haven;'t been paid, the Arishok dismissivley says that there really was no bargain and thus he is not going to pay up.  He then demands that the dwaf pay me or he will kill the dwarf.

The Quanri and the Arishok must all have brown eyes because they are full of s***.

[blothulfur]

Such rage against us friend beerfish, in the Qun there is calm and there is purpose for we are a passionate race that have known rage and must bind ourselves to the Qun lest we tear apart all we have built and love.

Anaan esaam Qun.

[Beerfish]

True Arishok blothlfur, the Qunari way is to have purpose and strike out when it suits them but to preach for others not to do the same thing. It seems that binding to the Qun allows one to tear apart others as if it is a right and yet expect others to follow a different set of rules. (By the way one of your horns is bigger than the other one....a sign of unbalance perhaps?)

[Legbiter]

It makes more sense to think of the Arishok as just a general, not THE Arishok of the Qunari. At least to me.

Modifié par Legbiter, 22 mars 2011 - 04:29 .

[NinjaRogue]

If he had the authority, he doesn't now. I lop of his head in every playthrough for a few reasons

1. He ain't getting Isabela
2. To send a message to the Qun that I can use the Fist of the Maker at anytime.
3. BRING IT!

[TJSolo]

Yes it seems that the Arishok role allows one who holds it to be able to assess what the need of the Qun is at any given time.

[Vilegrim]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

It could be that he had the same type of authority as Ambassadors had before global communications (vestiges of this can be seen by how complicated it is to  appoint one) that is, in a foreign land to take actions in ine with known policy, up to and including declaring war or making alliances.  Roman Governors and Generals with sufficent imperium certainly could and did make that kind of call.

Indeed it could, I'm not doubting that he could possibly have authority, just wondering publicly if Act 2 is:

• A case of the Arishok following a pre-existing doctrine or policy
• The Arishok exercising unilateral authority to make foreign policy decisions
  
• Or even the Arishok violating his role within the Qun and stepping outside his authority to make that call

Because it could reasonably be interpreted by the player as potentially any of these things. 

Heres a thought.. it had been years before he finally decided to unleash his warriors, nothing suggests he didn't have communications with the rest of the Qunari during that time (no obvious ship ofc, but since when has that been an issue? Is covert ops part of the Qun, say for converts?)  So he may not have had the authority up to around the point he acts, he was told if x happens you can do y, and X was blatant attack on troops under his command.  Actually in that case he probably wouldn't have NEEDED any more authority, his command had been attacked, by a force at least nominally loyal to the city (And certainly supposedly under the command of someone in it) so he defended his command with extreme prejudice, at a time that suited him

(And whats with having to log back into the forums every 30 seconds? Getting really annoying)