103 réponses à ce sujet

[Bathead]

Perhaps Anders was still "in the closet", so to speak, In Awakenings?
My best frind in High School was a babe magnet, all the ladies loved him, and he pretty much dated a good number of fairly hot chicks. A few years later, after graduation, well ... I think you can guess where this is going. I can honestly say all that time in High School, even as his best friend, I didn't have a clue he was actually gay. (althought that may say more about me than him.,LOL)

Modifié par Bathead, 22 mars 2011 - 01:06 .

[solution_nine]

Bathead wrote...

Perhaps Anders was still "in the closet", so to speak, In Awakenings?
My best frind in High School was a babe magnet, all the ladies loved him, and he pretty much dated a good number of fairly hot chicks. A few years later, after graduation, well ... I think you can guess where this is going. I can honestly say all that time in High School, even as his best friend, I didn't have a clue he was actually gay. (althought that may say more about me than him.,LOL)

Possibly? He hooked up with Karl when he was still at the Circle, but I guess it's possible he hadn't come to terms with it. But just like your friend there, just because he's not running through the streets proclaiming it doesn't mean he doesn't feel that way.

[GoddessTiera]

There is always going to be someone hating. I love Bioware for being brave enough to have all the LI's romancable by both male and female. It gives everyone equal chance. In Origins there was only one gay option per gender. We just have to ignore the stupidity of some people and not let them ruin our fun.

[Blacklash93]

casedawgz wrote...

It does seem to be a bit of a retcon. He has a line in Awakenings about how all he wants to do is settle down with a nice girl and shoot lightning at people. Not saying he's not bisexual NOW, just that he wasn't written that way in Awakening.

True, it definitely didn't seem like he was concieved to be bi in Awakening.

But it's still not a big stretch of the imagination that he could have been bi all along when they decided to make him that way in DA2. A circle mage with a love of cats, an earring, and a rather flamboyant personality doesn't really scream heterosexual. As for his occassional comments on girls... really, anyone can go on about one gender but still like the other.

At any rate, Anders did seem more "prepared" on the writing side to be a S/S LI than Fenris. Fenris has only two or three comments on Hawke being a man, but we get a whole conversation about an ex for Anders and even get hit on by him. I wouldn't be surprised if he was supposed to be the only S/S option before Bioware decided to make all romances bi.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 22 mars 2011 - 02:14 .

[Medhia Nox]

The man had a cat named Ser Pounce A Lot - he was gay in Awakenings too.

[Russalka]

He was different in Awakening in that he did not feel the need to express all parts of his personality, back then. The way he asks if Hawke might be bothered by him being into men implies he might have not been open about it before.
The merger with Justice just stirred something he had suppressed or had not been very interested to tell about, like his concerns over the state of the world and the people or well... being into guys.

If people want to turn that into "Justice turned him into a pervert" thing, that is the problem of their lesser intelligence.

Modifié par Russalka, 22 mars 2011 - 01:58 .

[Bathead]

solution_nine wrote...

Bathead wrote...

Perhaps Anders was still "in the closet", so to speak, In Awakenings?
My best frind in High School was a babe magnet, all the ladies loved him, and he pretty much dated a good number of fairly hot chicks. A few years later, after graduation, well ... I think you can guess where this is going. I can honestly say all that time in High School, even as his best friend, I didn't have a clue he was actually gay. (althought that may say more about me than him.,LOL)

Possibly? He hooked up with Karl when he was still at the Circle, but I guess it's possible he hadn't come to terms with it. But just like your friend there, just because he's not running through the streets proclaiming it doesn't mean he doesn't feel that way.

I wouldn't know, I never did Awakenings (yet).
As far as my friend goes, he told me later he knew he was gay since before I knew him. He was definitely hiding that fact the whole time. He had enough hassles from idiot 50's leftover greasy haired leather jacket wearing Fonzie wannabes  who only wore black socks because any other colored socks (especially white) were for "F**s",  picking on him because he was a " long-haired hippie". Could you imagine what he would have went thru if they knew he was gay? He was quite deliberately  "in the closet". which is kinda why I suggested that about Anders. It's never really stated outright, as far as I can tell,  what the  prevailing attitude towards gays is amongst the general population of Thedas.

Modifié par Bathead, 22 mars 2011 - 01:58 .

[mesmerizedish]

Medhia Nox wrote...

The man had a cat named Ser Pounce A Lot - he was gay in Awakenings too.

This

[mesmerizedish]

CassolicFusion wrote...

When do we get to see him naked?

When someone releases a better sex scenes mod.

[the_baroness]

 Wait, he and Karl were involved?  Obviously, I knew Anders was bi, but I had no idea that Karl was his (ex?) boyfriend.  From reading the posts, I guess he only talks about Karl to an m!Hawke?  Is it a whole conversation he has, or just a passing comment?
Late to the party on that one, I guess.   

[frozenprince]

dude, at least there is the option for a gay romance, nobody BUT biowere even touches the subject. I think its great that you can romance everybody, regardless of gender. I think his character changed fluidly and that what happened to Karl, well it adds depth to him and that quest. I love the way EVERYONE (cept fenris when he was being Emo, which was a lot) was writen, they were REAL.

As a gay man, I love the added LI's and though they could have touched on the fact that he is Bi, or gay and in the closet DEEP (Which I know people like that). But I think it was still a very sweet and well developed romance.

Modifié par frozenprince, 22 mars 2011 - 02:23 .

[berelinde]

the_baroness wrote...

 Wait, he and Karl were involved?  Obviously, I knew Anders was bi, but I had no idea that Karl was his (ex?) boyfriend.  From reading the posts, I guess he only talks about Karl to an m!Hawke?  Is it a whole conversation he has, or just a passing comment?
Late to the party on that one, I guess.   

Yeah, if Hawke is male, Anders mentions that he and Karl were once lovers, and asks if it bothers Hawke that he has been with another man.  If Hawke is female, Karl is just a friend, no explanation given. In fact, if you're playing Fem!Hawke, there's nothing to indicate that Anders has not been straight his entire life, which is kind of sad, acutally. The decision to have Anders kill Karl becomes much more poignant when you consider that Anders is killing someone he once loved.

[Addai]

solution_nine wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...
That particular claim was pulled out of nowhere.

So it seems.

I love that people really believe that wishing away part of his past will make it so. The guy hooked up with Karl, regardless of whether or not he chooses to share that with Hawke.

As a writer, this is why I dig and dig and replay everything until I can root out every bit of important characterization I can. Playing through with only one romance option (friendship or rivalry, male or female) doesn't give you the full picture.

The problem with this is that the writers themselves have refused to say whether that's so, and have structured the game so as to leave it open to interpretation.  I am totally with you on full characterization.  I argued it with some posters til I was blue in the face, and got called homophobe in the process, but just face it that some people prefer the subjective route and that is what the devs took this time.

[panamakira]

solution_nine wrote...

panamakira wrote...

Ehh~
I never got a vibe of Anders being gay or bisexual in Awakening so I do think they made fitting changes for the sake of the game not his character in DA2. Also when you romance him as a female, he never talks about having being in a relationship with Karl. In fact, we found out only if we romance him as a male which leads me to believe he is supposed to be straight when you're female otherwise why omit his relationship with Karl?

This is the mentality I honest to god do not understand.

So if Merrill and Fenris, during an opposite-sex relationship, don't ever specifically bring up the point that "Oh hey, I wouldn't mind sleeping with someone who has the same genitalia as me," that means that they're straight by default?

Isabela talks up a storm about all the people of all races and genders that she's slept with, and nobody is giving her crap for it. Even Zevran, while he was the recipient of plenty of hatred, did not seem to get this much confusion and misunderstanding and anger.

No, I don't get your logic.

How the heck am I supposed to know he had a relationship with Karl if he never mentioned it during a 7-10 yr relationship with Lady Hawke? While as male Hawke, that's the first thing he tells you when you're flirting with him.

I never knew that until I played a male Hawke. Why would one gender gets some information that the other does not?

The Anders I met was probably straight for the simple fact his relationship with Karl was never mentioned to me. The same argument would be vaild to ANY character that does that.

I'm not hating on Anders. Please. I'm stating strictly what happened with him and my Lady Hawke. He never mentions Karl is a lover. What am I supposed to conclude from that? Karl wasn't his lover when you romance him as female.

Otherwise I see absolutely no reason for the writers to omit an important aspect of his character during the female romance. Having to kill someone that used to be his lover seems like a big deal to me, yet he says he was his friend?

Take up your frustrations with the writers.

Modifié par panamakira, 22 mars 2011 - 02:43 .

[the_baroness]

berelinde wrote...

Yeah, if Hawke is male, Anders mentions that he and Karl were once lovers, and asks if it bothers Hawke that he has been with another man.  If Hawke is female, Karl is just a friend, no explanation given. In fact, if you're playing Fem!Hawke, there's nothing to indicate that Anders has not been straight his entire life, which is kind of sad, acutally. The decision to have Anders kill Karl becomes much more poignant when you consider that Anders is killing someone he once loved.

Thanks for the info.    That's weird that the dialogue doesn't show up for f!Hawke; really wish it had.  Totally agree that it would have made Karl's quest more poignant and personal.  As it is, the selective backstory reveal kind of makes Anders' bisexuality seem more like a game mechanism (to be selectively acknowledged or ignored depending on Hawke's gender) rather than an organic character trait.

ETA: I should add that I am totally for Anders being open to being romanced by anyone.  I just wish it had been handled more like Zevran -- like he was more open about it.  If that makes sense.

Modifié par the_baroness, 22 mars 2011 - 02:45 .

[tanuki]

the_baroness wrote...

As it is, the selective backstory reveal kind of makes Anders' bisexuality seem more like a game mechanism (to be selectively acknowledged or ignored depending on Hawke's gender) rather than an organic character trait.

IMO that was the whole point of handling his backstory like this. I don't think Gaider actually confirmed that  Anders was Karl lover is a canon, he was very vague on that. And yeah, if it would be handled like with Zevran that would be better. Otherwise as I  mentioned before, in my game Anders either straight or bi, but Karl wasn't his lover.
And regarding him not telling femHawke about he and Karl were lovers because he afraids that may bother her - really? Oh btw I am abomination and slowly go crazy and lose control and can sooner or later go on rampage but I'll never tell you that I like men because it can scare you away?

PS. someone said in some other topic that it would be nice if they would make 2 straight LI, 2 bis and 2 gays in the next game. I think it would be the best route, actually. Without any subjective sexuality.

[CrookedAsylum]

Ashley_82 wrote...

IMO that was the whole point of handling his backstory like this. I don't think Gaider actually confirmed that  Anders was Karl lover is a canon, he was very vague on that. And yeah, if it would be handled like with Zevran that would be better. Otherwise as I  mentioned before, in my game Anders either straight or bi, but Karl wasn't his lover.
And regarding him not telling femHawke about he and Karl were lovers because he afraids that may bother her - really? Oh btw I am abomination and slowly go crazy and lose control and can sooner or later go on rampage but I'll never tell you that I like men because it can scare you away?

PS. someone said in some other topic that it would be nice if they would make 2 straight LI, 2 bis and 2 gays in the next game. I think it would be the best route, actually. Without any subjective sexuality.

Then that implies that there is a canon, which there is not, and that gay Male Hawke has no part in it. Which isn't cool. 

[solution_nine]

Ashley_82 wrote...
And regarding him not telling femHawke about he and Karl were lovers because he afraids that may bother her - really? Oh btw I am abomination and slowly go crazy and lose control and can sooner or later go on rampage but I'll never tell you that I like men because it can scare you away?

PS. someone said in some other topic that it would be nice if they would make 2 straight LI, 2 bis and 2 gays in the next game. I think it would be the best route, actually. Without any subjective sexuality.

If this thread and the whole damn board is any indication, the players seem way more okay with him being demon-rage-possessed than having sex with a guy years ago.

Six LIs would be quite a lot to write. DA2 had five, if we count Sebastian. I think that's already more than enough.

[tanuki]

CrookedAsylum wrote...
Then that implies that there is a canon, which there is not, and that gay Male Hawke has no part in it. Which isn't cool.

What do you mean? As I could see, most people complain here that femHawke is actually denied some part of the story, not guy Hawke.

[solution_nine]

panamakira wrote...
The Anders I met was probably straight for the simple fact his relationship with Karl was never mentioned to me. The same argument would be vaild to ANY character that does that.

I'm not hating on Anders. Please. I'm stating strictly what happened with him and my Lady Hawke. He never mentions Karl is a lover. What am I supposed to conclude from that? Karl wasn't his lover when you romance him as female.

Otherwise I see absolutely no reason for the writers to omit an important aspect of his character during the female romance. Having to kill someone that used to be his lover seems like a big deal to me, yet he says he was his friend?

Take up your frustrations with the writers.

Ooooor he didn't think there was any particularly good reason to tell the woman he was hitting on about all the buttsex he had as a teenager. Still doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[CrookedAsylum]

Ashley_82 wrote...

CrookedAsylum wrote...
Then that implies that there is a canon, which there is not, and that gay Male Hawke has no part in it. Which isn't cool.

What do you mean? As I could see, most people complain here that femHawke is actually denied some part of the story, not guy Hawke.

I mean that saying Karl being Anders' lover could possibly not be canon means that Male Hawke's romance with him could also not be canon. Isn't canon, in fact, if that's true so really it was all one big delusion if you're a dude Hawke who pursued Anders. So femHawke gets the special treament and gay/bi Hawke gets swept under the carpet.

As for femHawke, I played through the game as both and I didn't notice any lack of content due to PC gender. But I'm only in the middle of Act II with femHawke, so who knows.

[tanuki]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

I mean that saying Karl being Anders' lover could possibly not be canon means that Male Hawke's romance with him could also not be canon. Isn't canon, in fact, if that's true so really it was all one big delusion if you're a dude Hawke who pursued Anders. So femHawke gets the special treament and gay/bi Hawke gets swept under the carpet.

As for femHawke, I played through the game as both and I didn't notice any lack of content due to PC gender. But I'm only in the middle of Act II with femHawke, so who knows.

Why would you be upset if it's not canon?  Hawke male or female is not canon, sibling's fate is not canon, if in one playthrough Hawke happened to be born female, why Anders couldnt happen to be straight in the same playthrough? Isabela being bi is canon, and for other three LI, there's nothing can be said exactly. 

Modifié par Ashley_82, 22 mars 2011 - 07:40 .

[LilyasAvalon]

Not entirely sure if anyone mentioned this but.... the OP is aware that Gaider wasn't the writer of Anders in DA2, right? Jennifer Hepler wrote him, hence why he went all Twilight-esque on us.

Anders had a playful enough attitude in Awakening I actually always ASSUMED he was bisexual in some way, I don't get why this was changed in DA2 that he only 'becomes' bisexual if M!Hawke shows interest in him. Why not just make him fully bisexual to begin with? Isn't it just easier? ._.

[sassperella]

Why does it matter what everyone else thinks? From how your game plays you can choose to see the characters however you like based on the information given. Several things happen in origins, awakenings and da2 that pan out differently for different people. There is supposedly no cannon for a lot of things.

I enjoy the game as presented without worrying what decisions other people make and if I only get the info that a char is straight i'll see them as straight and vice versa. It's not about bias or bigotry for me it's about immersion in my game and how I see my game world through the information given. I don't feel the need to insist that because I experienced something one way and someone else didn't that they should see it my way.

Why not just enjoy your game, enjoy your immersion and base your experience on what you actually see.