346 réponses à ce sujet

[Les_Carver]

Admoniter wrote...

This IMO is the one problem minimalist or immersive HUDs run into quite often. I.e. not clearly displaying the required information. Blue, Yellow and Red are not enough to display how much health I have. Unless of-course there are only four states of health shields, no shields, hurt, dead; thankfully that is not the case. Color by itself does not display nearly enough information, it is just color, sure it works as a rough indicator good for a quick glance but beyond that it isn't uesful. Dead Space did get it right in that respect, you have bars of health which are augmented with the colored lights useful as a rough indicator of your status.

Yes I see your point there, I remember I saw something similar to that LED idea on splinter cell double agent (worked a bit differently) but in essence I think it could work maybe in adittion to the health bar or whatever they happen to add in the HUD. Specially for people complaining about having to look elsewhere in the screen to check Shep's health in the middle of action.

I am going to respectfully disagree, now this may be my own personal bias, but anything that blocks or heavily obscures (GOW cog) my FOV is bad. The veins are just as bad because they look horribly out of place with the art style of ME in general but also becuase the last thing I want when near death is tunnel vision. I think ME1 did it right Sheps heartbeat got louder, everything on the screen started to red shift, the edges of the screen became blurry, your health bar had a little ECG pop up. The only other things I could ask for is that when in Critical Health have Shep limp, or hold their sides while out of combat and obscure the players hearing.

I never had a problem with ME1's hurt/dying screen, sounds, etc, if they happen to bring this back in ME3 I'm perfectly fine with it . However, in case that wont happen, I think something like this Reapers flares, or a hologram apearing (it shouldnt necesarily darken the center of the screen, it can be rather transparent but still be there) could be better than those heinous veins

[88mphSlayer]

II J0SePh X II wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

II J0SePh X II wrote...
"Most third-person video games still give you an obtrusive HUD that pretty much takes away the feeling of immersion."

I find it an oxymoron to talk about 'lack of immersion' while wanting to stick to a 3rd person perspective.

3rd person perspective is to get a better feel for your surroundings , rather than immerse yourself in the game. If you want immersion, you go 1st person, otherwise you are just pulling stuff out of your rear. (and no, links to people saying something about a game that is totally different in both game-play as well as thematic perspective shouldn't have any bearing on a discussion pertaining ME mechanics)

 
I play third and first person games for different gameplay experiences, not levels of immersion. Even first person games vary in regards to immersion. Crysis 2 is far more immersive than Homefront atm, because of the way the story and missions are delivered. I don't think Homefront or the CoD franchise deliver an immersive experience at all. Too much "follow Mr Invincible who's immune to bullets" for those games to even register on the immersion scale.

I'd put Crysis 2 and Dead Space 2 on a par with each other. There's a viable reason for information being where it is from the point of view of both the player and the protagonist. In Crysis 2, it's the nanosuit visor - in Dead Space, it is the Holos. The only reason to have info on your screen is to help you play a video game - immersion broken - whether that be third or first person games.

either way this gen has made it a point to have a reason why you even have a static HUD anyways... case in point: Assassins Creed, they ended up justifying the HUD with the sci-fi elements of the story, so what exactly is it that's giving us a HUD In mass effect? the omni-tool? then make that the reason and give us something that looks like omni-tool information

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Never played DS1/2, but I like the idea of a graphic representation on the screen.

Health: Rips and tears in the armor. When you rest, it returns to full. Just do what everyone else does and say "A nano bot did it."

Heat/ammo: Have some kind of bright stripe on the weapon that glowed more and more red as your shot it. Or on the back pack or something along those lines.

[Shibibiba]

My two and only hopes for Mass Effect 3? Ditch the 'ammo/not actually ammo' system, and bring back some form of an inventory/customizable party system. One thing I loved about ME 1 was being able to mod a shotgun into a one shot-instant-overheat death machine.

And one thing that never made sense to me in ME 2 was the whole heatsync thing. Going from weapons limited only by the danger of over heating to a "it's not ammo it's just a number showing how many times you can shoot before you can't, it's totally better" just.... doesnt fly with me.

Modifié par Shibibiba, 29 mars 2011 - 01:43 .

[mavzn]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Never played DS1/2, but I like the idea of a graphic representation on the screen.

Health: Rips and tears in the armor. When you rest, it returns to full. Just do what everyone else does and say "A nano bot did it."

Heat/ammo: Have some kind of bright stripe on the weapon that glowed more and more red as your shot it. Or on the back pack or something along those lines.

Overall something like that's an interesting idea, but honestly... don't fix what's not broken. I mean they can either get it right or get it horribly wrong and ruin the game. 

[Cyllus]

I'm new to the ME community, bought ME 1 about two weeks ago and loved it. Just purchased ME 2 and having only played for 4 hours I'm ready to uninstall and delete it. I hate ME 2's hud. So much so that if ME 3's hud is anything like it I won't buy it.

[Failmaster9000]

I think the ammo count should be similar to DS and DS2. Also, health bars for the squad mates would be a lot better, because i didnt like the health HUD for them in ME2.

[Praetor Knight]

Cyllus wrote...

I'm new to the ME community, bought ME 1 about two weeks ago and loved it. Just purchased ME 2 and having only played for 4 hours I'm ready to uninstall and delete it. I hate ME 2's hud. So much so that if ME 3's hud is anything like it I won't buy it.

*looks at join date*

hmm...

[Ace of Dawn]

xiiz wrote...

I always hated the way they show the HUD in Dead Space... Looks rediculous, who runs around with a counter on their back like that? In my opinion that ruins immersion more than a standard HUD. It makes it look more like "Oh, I see the developers wanted to make a less intrusive HUD.." which draws attention away from the game world, for me anyway. I really don't hope it gets put into ME3..

I'd prefer something more akin to ME1 or some of the other ideas in here. Something more informative than ME2, without being too intrusive. (I think ME1 did this very well)

Actually, the RIG's HUD makes perfect sense, since all the holograms, in-universe, are not intended for you. Any person using a RIG has access to all their vitals and information either by the monitor on their chest (most mining RIGs) or a HUD in their helmet (most combat RIGs). The health, stasis, and oxygen meters on your back are for everyone elses convenience. In a mining or combat scenario, being able to quickly see the status of those around you is invaluable. Sort of a fridge brilliance since it does that for you, help you understand the status of Isaac at a glance. All that information being on your back would obviously be of no use to you, and have little reason for being done. But all the gear in Dead Space is designed for situations where others would be around, so really, the immersion stays. To me, anyway.

That said, it wouldn't work in Mass Effect. With Shepard constantly moving and changing position in relation to your camera, it would begin to get confusing or annoying. Maybe some holographic elements could appear or be used, but it would really only be the same as Dead Space's HUD in concept.

Like many others have already stated, ME2's hud wasn't horrible, just lacking in certain points in comparison to ME. Honestly speaking, I didn't mind not having a radar in combat since I rarely gave it that much attention in the first game (which is odd, since I typically always use them in every other game), though it did annoy me that it was present while the power wheel was active. Use it or drop it.

That said, I am a sap for the simpler HUDs, so ME2's HUD edges out a bit over ME1's... even if it was a little... unhelpful.

And forget Critical Annoyance. I'd be far more happy not knowing I was one shot away from dying than being consumed in red vines and not be able to see where cover is.

[diskoh]

Thanks for the posts, Brenon. I love hearing this stuff from devs.

[Praetor Knight]

Well I had found this posted in the DS2 wiki, so I thought I'd share it here:
http://images3.wikia...CEC_Armor_3.jpg

[Overlord1944]

Hey all,

just a quick idea concerning what I feel is one of the major concerns for the integration of the HUD into the character's surrounding: the lack of squad feedback.

To compensate for less visual information, you could increase the voice communication in combat situations. Visual details could then be given during the pauses, where the perspective would zoom in on the omni tool. I think this would be the most realistic option as well, as the concentration would remain on the fight itself and less on the HUD information.

Best, OL

[Homebound]

I think the HUD needs to be tweaked for hardcore.

[Chromie]

Hellbound555 wrote...

I think the HUD needs to be tweaked for hardcore.

I think the HUD needs to be tweaked for Insanity.

[Fraevar]

I think the HUD needs to stop having massive info boxes pop up whenever you pick up *anything* in the gameworld. more to the point, if you get a stack of these - like on the SR2 at the start of the game, it literally takes in excess of a full minute for them all to leisurely display. At least on PC, I'd like the option to simply right-click these and stop them from displaying, but I'd really prefer they be a lot more minimalistic.

[Terror_K]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...

I think the HUD needs to stop having massive info boxes pop up whenever you pick up *anything* in the gameworld. more to the point, if you get a stack of these - like on the SR2 at the start of the game, it literally takes in excess of a full minute for them all to leisurely display. At least on PC, I'd like the option to simply right-click these and stop them from displaying, but I'd really prefer they be a lot more minimalistic.

Yeah, I really hated those in ME2. They were too big and unnecessarily so. I preferred ME1's small pop-ups with just a subtle click sound and only showing you what you needed to know, rather than a big image and bunch of text that seemed to almost take up the entire lower right quarter of the screen (intentional hyperbole on my part I know, but still...). Ironic considering the HUD as it was didn't put enough info across clearly and then the pop-ups put too much across and got in the way.

[Jebel Krong]

SalsaDMA wrote...

So you literally feel that 3rd person is more immersive than 1st person, everything else regardless?

that's not what i said, again with the fail at reading comprehension.

SalsaDMA wrote...
Something tells me we have quite different perceptions of what the word 'immersion' means.

evidently i don't think you even understand the word, let alone the concept...

SalsaDMA wrote...
You are ofc entitled to your opinion that viewing yourself and your suroundings from an external angle/viewpoint is more 'immersive' than viewing out through your eyes; Just don't start saying it is of equal validity as a 'fact' by trying to claim facts are opinions.

again i posted that one or the other could be just as immersive as THE other, depending on other factors, which you have again - twice in the space of one post - ignored...

SalsaDMA wrote...
At this point, you sound like someone that would retort: "that's your opinion" when faced with the statement that "water is a liquid in its natural form".

oh dear: water - or H2O - is a liquid at room temperature - this is not a "natural form" as it can of course be a gas above 100 degrees C or a solid below 0 degrees C (plus or minus a few depending on purity), all of these are part of the 3 classic states of matter. and the thing is, if you just came out with your statement it would be opinion until you could back it up with, y'know, actual scientific proof of said statement.

[Powgow]

I don't think we should limit our vision to what dead space has done, but learn from it and see how it works in ME.

The biggest problem seems to be information when shepard is in cover. Maybe we should figure out how that could work?

And you know how a HUD could feel a bit more realistic? In crysis 2, the HUD bounces around when you run. This makes it feel less static, and more as a helmet element. Hence, bouncy HUD works in my opinion.

But this doesnt mean that you shouldnt move more info into the game world. I simply love it whens stuff is integrated. For instance, button pressing in DS was awesome, all info was projected on the door. It worked and can work in ME. Inventory projection, can work in ME.

But, health, shield, powers and crew status are a bit more difficult. So, all the combat info.
I think a "combat status" botton could work. You hold a button and a small holographic screen projects the health of your teammates.

[Terror_K]

Again... what the hell is so wrong with just "SquadmemberName: Healthbar - Shieldbar?" at the bottom left, just like ME1?

Seriously... it really was a case of the original HUD being "fixed" when it was never broken in the first place.

[Overlord1944]

But this doesnt mean that you shouldnt move more info into the game world. I simply love it whens stuff is integrated. For instance, button pressing in DS was awesome, all info was projected on the door. It worked and can work in ME. Inventory projection, can work in ME.

True, as seen on Illium in ME2, the trading screens floated in the air. This would be perfectly suited for the task, I think, and wouldn't even cause a style breach between ME1/2 and 3.

But, health, shield, powers and crew status are a bit more difficult. So, all the combat info.
I think a "combat status" botton could work. You hold a button and a small holographic screen projects the health of your teammates.

This is quicker than what I initially proposed, however it seems less realistic to have a screen pop up in a combat situation. This might however be a suitable idea for the pause menu during combat.


Addressing the cover issue: as no damage can be received during being in cover, no health bars are needed. When Shepard turns over to shoot oder perform biotic/tech actions, the HUD on his/her armor or around him would of course reappear. Might be tricky however.

Greets, OL

[Sable Phoenix]

Just bring back ME1's HUD, which had all your necessary information easily presented and readable at all times. Problems solved.

Unless you build the game around the HUD (like in Dead Space), trying to minimize it and "move it into the environment" not only ends up obscuring information from the player and making things confusing, but also feels totally contrived and actively works against the immersion that you're supposedly shooting for.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 29 mars 2011 - 09:54 .

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Agreed Sable. I honestly don't understand why Bioware chose to change the ME1 HUD, which was essentially perfect.

[Overlord1944]

How can it be less immersive to integrate the HUD into being an integral element of the game world (like projecting the Inventory on a screen in front of the player or displaying hacking games on the door to be hacked, which is what I would imagine it to be), than having an overlaying window every time you perform an action.

Moreover, these displays could be seemlessly integrated into dialogue / multilogue scenes, giving these a whole new dimension.

[SalsaDMA]

Jebel Krong wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

So you literally feel that 3rd person is more immersive than 1st person, everything else regardless?

that's not what i said, again with the fail at reading comprehension.

SalsaDMA wrote...
Something tells me we have quite different perceptions of what the word 'immersion' means.

evidently i don't think you even understand the word, let alone the concept...

SalsaDMA wrote...
You are ofc entitled to your opinion that viewing yourself and your suroundings from an external angle/viewpoint is more 'immersive' than viewing out through your eyes; Just don't start saying it is of equal validity as a 'fact' by trying to claim facts are opinions.

again i posted that one or the other could be just as immersive as THE other, depending on other factors, which you have again - twice in the space of one post - ignored...

SalsaDMA wrote...
At this point, you sound like someone that would retort: "that's your opinion" when faced with the statement that "water is a liquid in its natural form".

oh dear: water - or H2O - is a liquid at room temperature - this is not a "natural form" as it can of course be a gas above 100 degrees C or a solid below 0 degrees C (plus or minus a few depending on purity), all of these are part of the 3 classic states of matter. and the thing is, if you just came out with your statement it would be opinion until you could back it up with, y'know, actual scientific proof of said statement.

I don't think I need to say anything else than : Thanks for showing exactly what I wrote you would do.

There's no point in continuing this exchange of words as it's by now just meaningless words taking up the buffer space on the local hub.

[SalsaDMA]

Overlord1944 wrote...

How can it be less immersive to integrate the HUD into being an integral element of the game world (like projecting the Inventory on a screen in front of the player or displaying hacking games on the door to be hacked, which is what I would imagine it to be), than having an overlaying window every time you perform an action.

Moreover, these displays could be seemlessly integrated into dialogue / multilogue scenes, giving these a whole new dimension.

I always thought it was a bit artificial and breaking the 4th wall to see my inventory screen in a hologram which the character I was playing could look at.

I'm not sure which non-artificial world where items fit into small little boxes, regardless of the size or encumberness of the item in question. Also, these small boxes are seemingly magical, as you don't really know where they are, except that they are 'somewhere', and can hold anything you stuff into them, without displacing any amount of space.

Seriously, who in the real world ever looks at an 'inventory' when picking stuff they are carrying around? You don't. Simple as. Instead, you have your stuff in various pockets, bags, or attached to belsts and/or straps various places on your body. Picking the item consists of just grabbing it, not opening some sort of inventory checklist which you pick the item from.

I personally felt it was silly to claim immersion with such an inventory system, especially when I was carrying around several seemingly heavy or cumbersome weapons, yet only the one I was using was visible, the rest seemingly magically dissapearing. At least Shepards weapons (save the rushed smg) have fixed placements on the body where you can see they go to and from when selecting weapons.

DS interface was an aestethic choice, nothing more, nothing less.