346 réponses à ce sujet

[InfiniteCuts]

Not a fan of HUD indicators being placed on the character's body.  With the exception of indicators on weapons in first-person shooters, this kind of thing takes the immersion away for me.  I also like to use peripheral vision while playing, so having to focus on Shepard's back while sniping reapers won't do.  I think BioWare should design a sleek, informative HUD that takes up as little space as possible.  ME2's character icons was a step backwards, IMO.  I don't really need the HUD for immersion so it doesn't have to be as literal as having a life gauge on your shoulders.

[N7Infernox]

I'm sorry but I hated the ME1 HUD (as an xbox player). Both ME2 and Dead Space however have awesome HUDs.
I wouldn't tweak too much in ME3 though; change the color scheme to red, keep the enemy indicator at the top, make the bleeding effect less intrusive and keep the character portraits (I don't wanna have to interrupt combat just to read and figure out if me or Ashley is the one about to get their **** kicked). And as much as I like the Dead Space Health-shown-on-body thing, I don't think it would work too well with ME combat (glowing biotics much); a less cluttered view would still be nice though. So, overall, other than some minor stylistic changes, I wouldn't want the HUD to be changed much from ME2.

Modifié par N7Infernox, 21 mars 2011 - 11:24 .

[Powgow]

Has anyone ever heared of the sixth sense technology?

It is, in short, a combination of a scanner and a projector. it scans the surroundings for recognisable objects, then the projector shows the information on the same object. Here is a vid:




Ive always imagined that, when dead space and mass effect made a baby, it would be the most awesome sci-fi game ever.

For instance, both have an awesome setting. And they both do something rpg-like very good, but in a different spectrum.

Dead space has a good equipment progression thingy (stores, suits, nodes), and good inventory system.
While mass effect has the stats and ability progression. Upgrades are kinda dull in mass effect.

BUT, what i like more in dead space, and see possible in mass effect is the following.

I love the camera angle in Dead space. It is the marriage of first person and third person. AWESOME!

I adore the way the HUD is incorporated in the game world and the suit. You really feel inside a world when you have to pop up your inventory in real time. It never breaks the time flow and makes it feel like you are in an interactive movie. There is no floating crosshair, It is a more realistic laser pointer. Everything is believable,

Maybe in mass effect they could add something like the sixth sense system. I wonder why no other game has done something similar (outside of DS2)

So i say, mass effect and dead space do 2 different things very good. They should learn from eachother.

[Tasker]

Arrow70 wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

I'd love it if ME3 used the ME1 style HUD. Complete with lack of stupid drawn by a 2 year old Crayola crayon damage indicator.

The ME2 system was a serious case of fixing something that didn't need fixing and making it worse.
.

I'm going to disagree with that. I personally, and others I know, preffered the ME2 HUD over the one from ME1. Its more simplified, and personally I felt like it gave more feedback. though I would like to see the radar return and get rid of the creepy faces at the bottom of the screen.

I'm sorry but on the whole, how the hell was ME2's HUD better?

Both had similar weapon indicators so nothing to moan about there.

ME1 had clear team mate health and shield bars for instant knowlage at a glance.
ME2 had washed out portraits that blended into the background, only indicated health and shield status when it was too late to do anything about it and turned grey when they were unconcious. -  Which you couldn't tell half the time as they weren't much different to the non grey versions.

ME1 had non intrusive rad flashes that actually told you which direction the incoming fire was coming from without getting in your way and getting you killed. Admitidley, they somethimes could have done with being a little more pronounced.
ME2 had crayon drawings by a 2 year old that obscured the whole screen and 9 times out of 10 resulted in you getting killed because you couldn't bloody see anything.

ME1 had non intrusive information popups that told you information without getting in your way.
ME2 had bloody big popups that took up half the screen and only displayed very slowly one at a time.

Fair enough, if you liked the ME2 system then that's your perogative, but it was in no way a more simplified easier to read system

[William Adama]

Powgow wrote...

Has anyone ever heared of the sixth sense technology?

It is, in short, a combination of a scanner and a projector. it scans the surroundings for recognisable objects, then the projector shows the information on the same object. Here is a vid:




Ive always imagined that, when dead space and mass effect made a baby, it would be the most awesome sci-fi game ever.

For instance, both have an awesome setting. And they both do something rpg-like very good, but in a different spectrum.

Dead space has a good equipment progression thingy (stores, suits, nodes), and good inventory system.
While mass effect has the stats and ability progression. Upgrades are kinda dull in mass effect.

BUT, what i like more in dead space, and see possible in mass effect is the following.

I love the camera angle in Dead space. It is the marriage of first person and third person. AWESOME!

I adore the way the HUD is incorporated in the game world and the suit. You really feel inside a world when you have to pop up your inventory in real time. It never breaks the time flow and makes it feel like you are in an interactive movie. There is no floating crosshair, It is a more realistic laser pointer. Everything is believable,

Maybe in mass effect they could add something like the sixth sense system. I wonder why no other game has done something similar (outside of DS2)

So i say, mass effect and dead space do 2 different things very good. They should learn from eachother.

I agree. Bioware should learn from the Dead Space series with regrds to immersion, atmosphere, and gameplay elements.

Dead space 2 has a MEH story but PHENOMENAL immersion and environement design as well as effects and sound editing. When it comes to immersion, dead space gets a 10/10. No contest.

Mass effect has a much stronger story, but far less immersion because of the odd loading screens and abysmal TIM end of mission screens.

Why can't the game menu be accessed from the OMNI TOOL? It's perfectly rational.

And with regards to HUD:

1) Ammo rounds should be ON THE GUN!

2) Player health should NOT BE VISIBLE ANYWHERE. It uses regen health now, its not needed.

3) Squad health should ONLY be shown when the player looks at his/her squadmember. When the squadmate is incapacitated, the armor computer should alert Shepard that " Operative Lawson is incapacitated." etc. 

4) Keep the power wheel, it works. We dont need an ingame justification for this, just think of it as the wheel of Shepards thoughts on tactical action.

5) SHEPARD SHOULD BARK ORDERS AFTER SELECTING THEM IN THE POWER WHEEL! There is no reason not to have this ingame! How else do the squadmates know what to do?

6) Weapon reticule. Bring back the circle reticule that projects recoil spread of rounds, I dislike crosshairs for shooters.

7) Keep the enemy shield and armor info. It was a great gameplay addition and worked. It should also only be shown when aiming at a target.

8) Helmets should automatically deploy when in combat situations ala Dead space 2 style. Its the only explaination for why we see a HUD at all in the first place...

There, I just got rid of the HUD. Now the game is more immersive.

Modifié par William Adama, 22 mars 2011 - 01:59 .

[Praetor Knight]

^ I like your suggestions.

[javierabegazo]

William Adama wrote...

Powgow wrote...
-snip-

I agree. Bioware should learn from the Dead Space series with regrds to immersion, atmosphere, and gameplay elements.

Dead space 2 has a MEH story but PHENOMENAL immersion and environement design as well as effects and sound editing. When it comes to immersion, dead space gets a 10/10. No contest.

Mass effect has a much stronger story, but far less immersion because of the odd loading screens and abysmal TIM end of mission screens.

Why can't the game menu be accessed from the OMNI TOOL? It's perfectly rational.
-snip-
8) Helmets should automatically deploy when in combat situations ala Dead space 2 style. Its the only explaination for why we see a HUD at all in the first place...

There, I just got rid of the HUD. Now the game is more immersive.

+100

I completely agree. I loved being able to see Isaac's helmet unfold and refold. I want to see more of Shepard's body reacting with the world

[II J0SePh X II]

I really enjoyed DS2, and was going to post a topic titled "Wouldn't mind some Dead Space 2 in my Mass Effect 3"

The HUDless aspect of DS2 is a giant leap forward in game design, and created a really immersive experience. I'd love to see BW take away the UI and convey all the info in the gameworld

Mass Effect is a much different game though, and you'd have to factor in squaddie info (which is currently lower middle of the screen) and the Power & Weapon wheels (which are the most immersion breaking imo)

[skiaDUDE]

Having played both dead space and mass effect, I can say that story>immersion. The fact that Issac's health is displayed on his suit is stupid, impractical, and breaks the immersion you are trying to create in the first place. What is great about dead space is the menu system. I completely agree it would be ausome to have the menu accessed through the omni-tool, but i enjoy the HUD system.

For weapons, I'm kind of on the fence, on one hand, weapon stats on the actual gun are cool and probably more practical/realistic, but there are times when it would be hard to see amongst the background images that you are shooting at.

All in all I think that a HUD is the best way to go, but with immersion adding.."stuff" to bring in that extra flair.

Modifié par skiaDUDE, 22 mars 2011 - 04:47 .

[KingDan97]

Honestly, I'm just going to say it. Dead Space is not Mass Effect. Okay, now with that out of the way let me articulate.

Dead Space is a survival horror third person action game. If they don't integrate you into the two senses they can as much as possible you aren't ever going to be scared. That is why when you focus your fire in Dead Space you're literally breathing down Issac's neck. This is also why the idea of ammo on the weapon works so well, as it does in FPS's and similarly placed TPS cameras.

Mass Effect is a Tactical Third-Person Roleplaying Shooter. It needs to convey much more information on a basic level because Shepard, unlike Issac isn't dealing with:
a) Being alone
Not having superpowers(Biotics/Tech)
c)Having no shields
In Mass Effect if they don't at least attempt to convey it in simpler terms, a way that you wouldn't need to get out of cover to see, than it just doesn't work.

1) Ammo rounds should be ON THE GUN!

2) Player health should NOT BE VISIBLE ANYWHERE. It uses regen health now, its not needed.

3) Squad health should ONLY be shown when the player looks at his/her squadmember. When the squadmate is incapacitated, the armor computer should alert Shepard that " Operative Lawson is incapacitated." etc.

4) Keep the power wheel, it works. We dont need an ingame justification for this, just think of it as the wheel of Shepards thoughts on tactical action.

5) SHEPARD SHOULD BARK ORDERS AFTER SELECTING THEM IN THE POWER WHEEL! There is no reason not to have this ingame! How else do the squadmates know what to do?

6) Weapon reticule. Bring back the circle reticule that projects recoil spread of rounds, I dislike crosshairs for shooters.

7) Keep the enemy shield and armor info. It was a great gameplay addition and worked. It should also only be shown when aiming at a target.

8) Helmets should automatically deploy when in combat situations ala Dead space 2 style. Its the only explanation for why we see a HUD at all in the first place...

Some of these ideas seem very good from a design perspective while others are fundamentally flawed.

1. Already adressed.

2.Player health is always a major concern to the player. Just because my health can recharge doesn't mean I can't die.(See Halo/any other game with recharging health that isn't CoD/GoW) If there isn't in some way a visible representation of my health in a tactical situation, the UI designers have failed.

3.See 2. It's the exact same concept because Mass Effect is built to be tactical.

4.This isn't even a point of contention for anyone who has used it.I don't think anyone looked at the combat wheel and thought it was intrusive because it works. And I don't need a damned justification for every gameplay feature.(WHY CAN I PAUSE! SHEPARD IS A GOD DUR HURR!)

5.No. Never ever ever ever ever do I want Shepard to start shouting order to a squadmate. Why? Because of Dragon Age. I cannot tell you how much I now hate the phrase "Should I get you a ladder? So you can get off my back!" I don't need other non-offending phrases such as, "Miranda hit them with an overload!!!" rotting in my brain. I currently feel their own declarations are enough.(e.g. "Hitting them with a Biotic field!")

6.Your dislike of a basic shooter construct is not reason for them to replace it with something that does the exact same thing. Many people are used to crosshairs, and it fits in better with the idea of an actual soldier. You want immersion, there it is. It wouldn't even be a shift to remove any UI.

7.Again, not a point of contention.

8. I think the opposite should be done. I think that if I choose to wear a helmet I should be wearing it except in conversation. Almost every conversation starts with Shepard walking up/being walked up to in some fashion, and it's not like it would be hard to do a simple folding animation within that period.(except in the case of visors where I feel they would be non-intrusive in conversation)

[Gethforceone]

Get rid of the tiny heads of my squadmates, it told me nothing about their health and shields and the heads just looked strange.

[Purgatious]

It should be clean, simple, RAZOR sharp and easy to understand information. All other points are trivial.

[Razgriz9327]

just want to agree with the earlier statements regarding ammo powers... i was always annoyed when I saw them during cutscenes on the gun... I love the idea of the ammo counter or perhaps crosshair changing color depending on ammo... . While i don't agree with dead space's helmet choice, as it makes little sense in that world(necros are giving physical tramau and that helmet wouldn't stop anything), Shep has shields, so it feels more plausible, and would satisfy someone like me who likes the idea of a helmet but wants to see facial expressions during dialogue. also, i would appreciate toning down the ridiculous bloody lines for regenerating health.  I preferred the old health system, but i understand their choices. Regen health is popular, and works pretty well ingame. But i don't need something that intrusive when my health is low. but thats just my opinion. thanks for all your hard work bioware!

Modifié par Razgriz9327, 22 mars 2011 - 07:56 .

[atheelogos]

"What are the pro's and cons concerning HUD free games? " To be honest I'm not sure it makes any sense for there to be no hud in a game like this. Augmented reality will be a part of a soldier's vision in the future just as it is in the present. There is not question about it.

In a game like Skyrim, however, I suppose it would make sense to go with as little as possible.

Oh and Dead Space's hud is amazing. I love how they explain it ingame. Saying "everything you see Issac sees."

And anyone who's been keeping up with Deus Ex Human Revolution should take note of their hud as well. They explain it through the use of Cybernetic Augmentations. Similar to Dead Space and Issac's helmet.

So with all that said I think Bioware should do something similar to said games above.

Modifié par atheelogos, 22 mars 2011 - 08:59 .

[Powgow]

William Adama wrote...

Powgow wrote...

-snip-

I agree. Bioware should learn from the Dead Space series with regrds to immersion, atmosphere, and gameplay elements.

Why can't the game menu be accessed from the OMNI TOOL? It's perfectly rational.

This!

And i think you can justify all the "health info on suit" stuff.

Imagine in a real war scenario, in a distant future, where field medics can easily asses the condition of the soldier by looking at their suits. Or, it could be a simple LED light on the shoulder that changes from blue to red according to your health, flashing when you are near death. 

It can be solved in other ways too. Instead of a health bar, the animations of shep change to limping (as in dead space also!). Breathing becomes labored, en you hear your heart thumping.

If you want to see all info that is not seen on your current, more immersive streamlined hud, you can always push a button and a chart rises from your omni tool.

Also, hacking in DS2 was cool, although it was the same thing over and over again. 

Btw, I think bioware is already looking at dead space, if you look at some of the dlc weapons. There was one pistol with a blue laserpointer. I think its awesome and use it all the time just cos it has that pointer.

Any other idea's?

[BlackAdder117]

How about using:
1) Shepard's red N7 stripe on the sleeve of his arm as the health bar, as it's not only part of the suit but also part of the story and the N7 marines,

2) Have some sort of flashing lights or blue bar on the right shoulder to indicate shield/barrier strength,

3) ME2-style ammo counter and ammo type on weapon,

4) And yes, make use of the omnitool! I think we need to start using it because of how central its use is to the ME universe.

Modifié par BlackAdder117, 22 mars 2011 - 09:47 .

[Terror_K]

To me the ME2 HUD was a classic case of not only making something worse, but a case of something being "fixed" that was never broken in the first place.

[Kasper Finknottle]

Rurik_Niall wrote...

Could we have an option to choose between the traditional HUD and this new HUD? I wouldn't object to it as long as I can choose not to use it. I'd much rather have my ammo, shields, health, squad health and shields, etc. laid out nice and neat in a traditional HUD, but I can accept if others would prefer the Dead Space 2 style, as long as it's not forced on us regardless of which we want.

I second this!

Kp

[Tarek]

Raizo wrote...

Wizz wrote...

Even if DS' HUD is good design decision it could break immersion as well. Every time see this health bar on his back I quest myself  "Who is supposed to see it? Zombies? Dragons? Reapers? What is the sense of it in routine  engineer life?".

You make a very good point. Why is his health meter on his back anyway, can Issac even mointor his own vitals if they are stuck on his back.

well the spine indecator is for you, Issac can tell his state of health by holdng his guts i his hands or noticing that his head is only hanging by a skin patch.

[William Adama]

Nyoka wrote...

I wonder if Mass Effect 3, the long expected and desired conclusion of an incredibly epic saga, is really the right place for experiments with HUDs and so far untested gameplay features. Not very reassuring, you know. We want it to be solid. Perfect. Memorable. I fear ME3 to end up being some experimental proof of concept like mirror edge that everybody praises in its originality but nobody actually loves.

Please don't ruin everything.

Hahah! Bioware changed ME2 from ME1, why not do the same thing for 3? The mentioned improvements would make a more streamlined game which = a better game.

[SalsaDMA]

Powgow wrote...

There is no floating crosshair, It is a more realistic laser pointer. Everything is believable,

ahem...

Have you actually worked with lasers or are you basing your asumption on generic random movies and/or games visualization here?

There is nothing 'believeable' about the laser 'pointers' in Deadspace (or beams, as the case actually is).
A laser is not a visible beam as usually portrayed in movies. Most of the time you only see it as a small dot where it points. The only times you see the 'beams of light' that movies like to throw in peoples faces all the time (because it looks cooler than just showing a dot at a target) is when you got heavy visual interference along the lasers 'shooting range'. In lightshows, this is most often caused by a smoke engine, and what people see is then the laser beam reflecting off the smoke.

I'm sorry, but I always instinctively do a facepalm whenever someone talks about laserbeams showing up everwhere, and realism in the same breath.

[Powgow]

There is nothing erronous about me saying that laser POINTERS are more believable. Never said laser beams.

Why? One may ask. They already use it in the military , like now. I dont mention a constant radiating string of light. Or "pew pew "star wars style lasers. I just think the dead space way is more realistic than a floating target reticule that happens to be there for reasons unknown. I never really liked huds because the never felt like "part of the game world".

And yes, I have worked with lasers on many occasions, including experiments in physics practicals.

[Mr.House]

The HUD was fine in ME, why they changed it to something worse makes no sense.