346 réponses à ce sujet

[davidshooter]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

Alright, seeing as how ME3 is in production, I would like to start a discussion on HUD Elements, and what we'd like to see in Mass Effect 3.

<snip>

Now seeing as how Shepard will have part of his back, if not near all of it covered up with Heavy Weapons and two primary weapons, I think there are other possibilities, like putting the Life guage on his shoulder, or perhaps his helmet.

Obviously I think Mass Effect 3 will have to compromise and cannot totally take advatage of Dead Space 2's gorgeous HUD free system because it still is a squad shooter, so we'll need some info for our squadmates.

We actually had the exact same thought during ME2 development and did a few prototypes of a health and shield indicator in world on Shepard's armour. The end result was not as great as we'd hoped...

It was ok when Shepard was out of cover, like in the image you linked. The issues started to crop up once you popped into cover, with the way that the camera was positioned and with Shepard's orientation changing we had to do some fairly crazy stuff to get the health indicator to display in a reasonable position. Even then it ended up being rather confusing to reference when you were in the middle of a fight. I think if we'd simplified our health system so we only had one meter or bar it might have been easier to represent it on the armour (like on Isaac's back in DS).

All that said, we're still really interested in trying to move information into the world. That's one of the things that I love about Dead Space; the interface... it feels really immersive. I just want to touch the hell out of those buttons :happy:. So we are still investigating ways of putting some of our HUD elements into the environment... we'll see what we end up with.

I'd be interested to hear what you guys think might be interesting though... even beyond simple health and shield indicators.

Very good to hear that the devs are thinking along these lines.  Dead Space 1/2 is not quite as good a game as Mass Effect 1/2 but there are some things it does very well and the Hud is definitely one of them.  Creating the feeling of actually being in space is another element that game does very well - particularly the feeling of the hostility of that environment.  It would be nice for Mass Effect to use this a bit more too.

As for the Hud, It would also be nice if the player could actually see shields and biotic barriers on enemies in the same kind of way that tech armor is visible (much more subtle though) and then have this visual cue vanish when the barrier or shields are taken down.  This kind of thinking could eliminate the need for all, or at least, some of the bars above the enemies.

Also, make different enemies visually identifiable so we don't need their title or species written above them in words.  Anything that removes words and bars from above enemies would be a real step forward in my opinion.  And please do not bring back the red triangles of ME1 some people are asking for .

I would also like to see the faces of the squadmates in the lower middle of the screen removed as well, or at least the option to turn them off.

lastly, the option to shut off whatever hud you choose to implement would be very welcome especially for those of us  who will play the game 10+ times and might be after a different type of difficulty upgrade.

Modifié par davidshooter, 26 mars 2011 - 10:52 .

[matteatspuppies]

this kind of goes back to the super ultimate edition but i was thinking of a N7 helmet you can wear and use as a monitor by attaching it to your game console and when you do you get a cool hud that would be what shep sees when he wears one.

it would have a shield gauge with a recharge timer under it. in a corner or something there will be a body outline for shepard that gives little stats about his armour and shows medi gel being released in certain areas. the more damage the crazier the stats start to cycle through and the body outline starts to glow. (either to show your basically swimming in medi gel or that your life signs are going critical) the current gun hub would be ok. for squad members there will be a little pic near the body outline of them or maybe just their name or both, but next to that it will give a little stat for them. havent thought of one for them but maybe: normal with a blue outline around it for shields, normal with just white text to show no shields but ok, and critical in red if they are about to die, and unknown faded out to grey or blinking yellow when they are knocked out to show you lost the connection to their suit after they got k.o.ed

Modifié par matteatspuppies, 26 mars 2011 - 11:40 .

[Estelindis]

Broadly speaking, I prefer ME1's HUD, though I recognise Brenon's point about the radar's performance demands. Personally, I'd like it if the little floating heads of the current squadmates were taken away - or only shown when the rest of the HUD is shown. I don't like seeing them at all times; it takes away from my immersion somewhat.

[Arijharn]

In ME3, the one thing I really want is a radar system clearly displayed on the HUD itself, without bringing up the tactical screen to see it.

[Brenon Holmes]

davidshooter wrote...

<snip>

Also, make different enemies visually identifiable so we don't need their title or species written above them in words.  Anything that removes words and bars from above enemies would be a real step forward in my opinion. 

This is something I wanted to touch on, (not totally related to HUD improvements)... as it's something I'm pretty passionate about (and it's sort of my job these days :happy:).

At the start of ME3 we put together a ME2 silhouette chart... some interesting stuff came out of that. Basically, it's very difficult to make out which enemy is which base purely on a lineup... some stand out a bit more (like Vorcha, Geth, Collectors, and the Oculus (dur, beach ball!)), but for the most part it's difficult to tell who's who...

Even if you were able to easily recognise a given enemy, what are they going to do in a fight? What sort of strategy should you be using when engaging them? Sooo... one of the things we're trying for ME3 is to make it a lot easier to identify the various types of enemies. Silhouette of the character is a huge component of that, and our character art/animator guys have done a pretty awesome job. I'm pretty excited for when we get to start showing off some of the really cool creatures we've been working on. :happy:

[Razagon]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Sooo... one of the things we're trying for ME3 is to make it a lot easier to identify the various types of enemies. Silhouette of the character is a huge component of that, and our character art/animator guys have done a pretty awesome job. I'm pretty excited for when we get to start showing off some of the really cool creatures we've been working on. :happy:

Maybe they all look the same but different colours. No seriously I think I could recognise a Reaper if I saw one in a fight.

As for what strategy should you use, I think it could be nice especially for new players that you get like a hint from EDI or something. Like "Enemy identified - Krogan. Recommending long range combat/avoiding close combat." Not that we already don't know what to do.

Modifié par Razagon, 27 mars 2011 - 03:51 .

[Brenon Holmes]

Razagon wrote...

Maybe they all look the same but different colours. No seriously I think I could recognise a Reaper if I saw one in a fight.

I don't know... Sovereign was kind of hard to pick out of a lineup... 

[Razagon]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Razagon wrote...

Maybe they all look the same but different colours. No seriously I think I could recognise a Reaper if I saw one in a fight.

I don't know... Sovereign was kind of hard to pick out of a lineup... 

"Shepard what is that? OMG! I think we're gonna need a bigger gun."

Back to the strategy, there was a game I loved to play where your AI combat partner would actually reccomend a subweapon for a situation you were in based on your enemies.

Modifié par Razagon, 27 mars 2011 - 03:59 .

[Epic777]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

<snip>

Also, make different enemies visually identifiable so we don't need their title or species written above them in words.  Anything that removes words and bars from above enemies would be a real step forward in my opinion. 

This is something I wanted to touch on, (not totally related to HUD improvements)... as it's something I'm pretty passionate about (and it's sort of my job these days :happy:).

At the start of ME3 we put together a ME2 silhouette chart... some interesting stuff came out of that. Basically, it's very difficult to make out which enemy is which base purely on a lineup... some stand out a bit more (like Vorcha, Geth, Collectors, and the Oculus (dur, beach ball!)), but for the most part it's difficult to tell who's who...

Even if you were able to easily recognise a given enemy, what are they going to do in a fight? What sort of strategy should you be using when engaging them? Sooo... one of the things we're trying for ME3 is to make it a lot easier to identify the various types of enemies. Silhouette of the character is a huge component of that, and our character art/animator guys have done a pretty awesome job. I'm pretty excited for when we get to start showing off some of the really cool creatures we've been working on. :happy:

How did you not notice a big shotgun wielding krogan?

[Razagon]

Epic777 wrote...

How did you not notice a big shotgun wielding krogan?

They all look the same after you fill them with a couple of dozen bullets.

[Brenon Holmes]

Epic777 wrote...

How did you not notice a big shotgun wielding krogan?

But does he have a shotgun, or a rifle? What kind of powers does he have? Is he going to charge you or hang back? How is he going to fight you? That's the only kind of thing I meant to imply with my comment on silhouette. Obviously some others are easy to identify, but I didn't think the point required an exhaustive list. :happy:

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 27 mars 2011 - 04:17 .

[Razagon]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

How did you not notice a big shotgun wielding krogan?

But does he have a shotgun, or a rifle? What kind of powers does he have? Is he going to charge you or hang back? How is he going to fight you? That's the only kind of thing I meant to imply with my comment on silhouette. Obviously some others are easy to identify, but I didn't think the point required an exhaustive list. :happy:

Interesting. Didn't think of that. Maybe you should headshot him and then watch his reactions and plan acordingly.

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 27 mars 2011 - 04:17 .

[Terror_K]

I personally think that a bit of ambiguity can also lead to exciting gameplay too though. If the player always knows what enemy is what, then they always have things under control because they'll always know how to deal with them if it's obvious. If a player has to think twice about an enemy it can add challenge and force them to think a bit. For example if a krogan approaching from the distance could either be assault rifle or shotgun but it's not obvious, it puts the players on the spot and they have to decide whether they wait and see and perhaps suffer for it, or take a chance on it being one or the other and act and it either pays off or doesn't.

This would also be a lot more realistic than krogan wearing a particular colour or style of uniform simply because they use a particular weapon. I can understand perhaps snipers being a bit different (e.g. perhaps a sniper would have a Garrus-style eyepiece or something and lighter armour), but beyond that I think enemies just looking different for the sake of looking different is a tad naff.

Modifié par Terror_K, 27 mars 2011 - 04:10 .

[davidshooter]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

<snip>

Also, make different enemies visually identifiable so we don't need their title or species written above them in words.  Anything that removes words and bars from above enemies would be a real step forward in my opinion. 

This is something I wanted to touch on, (not totally related to HUD improvements)... as it's something I'm pretty passionate about (and it's sort of my job these days :happy:).

At the start of ME3 we put together a ME2 silhouette chart... some interesting stuff came out of that. Basically, it's very difficult to make out which enemy is which base purely on a lineup... some stand out a bit more (like Vorcha, Geth, Collectors, and the Oculus (dur, beach ball!)), but for the most part it's difficult to tell who's who...

Even if you were able to easily recognise a given enemy, what are they going to do in a fight? What sort of strategy should you be using when engaging them? Sooo... one of the things we're trying for ME3 is to make it a lot easier to identify the various types of enemies. Silhouette of the character is a huge component of that, and our character art/animator guys have done a pretty awesome job. I'm pretty excited for when we get to start showing off some of the really cool creatures we've been working on. :happy:

Thanks for the reply Brenon - really looking forward to seeing the new creations and the new hud.  Looking forward to Tuesday's DLC as well!

[Razagon]

Terror_K wrote...

I personally think that a bit of ambiguity can also lead to exciting gameplay too though. If the player always knows what enemy is what, then they always have things under control because they'll always know how to deal with them if it's obvious. If a player has to think twice about an enemy it can add challenge and force them to think a bit. For example if a krogan approaching from the distance could either be assault rifle or shotgun but it's not obvious, it puts the players on the spot and they have to decide whether they wait and see and perhaps suffer for it, or take a chance on it being one or the other and act and it either pays off or doesn't.

This would also be a lot more realistic than krogan wearing a particular colour or style of uniform simply because they use a particular weapon. I can understand perhaps snipers being a bit different (e.g. perhaps a sniper would have a Garrus-style eyepiece or something and lighter armour), but beyond that I think enemies just looking different for the sake of looking different is a tad naff.

That is also true but in middle of a fight with a dozen or more enemies you can't take a risk with everyone and you can't plan long and focus on enemies with ease. As for different uniforms why not? Biotic based assault unit should look differently than engenieers or full-on-assault tanks.

[Praetor Knight]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

How did you not notice a big shotgun wielding krogan?

But does he have a shotgun, or a rifle? What kind of powers does he have? Is he going to charge you or hang back? How is he going to fight you? That's the only kind of thing I meant to imply with my comment on silhouette. Obviously some others are easy to identify, but I didn't think the point required an exhaustive list. :happy:

But that's part of the fun. Finding out for yourself.


Although, silhouettes certainly could be used to pin-point the most dangerous enemy on the battlefield, like that enemy Vanguard creeping up from a side of the battlefield you're not watching.

More info than that could be information overload in some cases, especially when a player has invested time and effort to figuring out what to look for in enemy movements. But if ME3 will use something like an AI Director, where enemy encounters can be randomized than silhouettes will be awesome.

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 27 mars 2011 - 04:17 .

[Terror_K]

Razagon wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

I personally think that a bit of ambiguity can also lead to exciting gameplay too though. If the player always knows what enemy is what, then they always have things under control because they'll always know how to deal with them if it's obvious. If a player has to think twice about an enemy it can add challenge and force them to think a bit. For example if a krogan approaching from the distance could either be assault rifle or shotgun but it's not obvious, it puts the players on the spot and they have to decide whether they wait and see and perhaps suffer for it, or take a chance on it being one or the other and act and it either pays off or doesn't.

This would also be a lot more realistic than krogan wearing a particular colour or style of uniform simply because they use a particular weapon. I can understand perhaps snipers being a bit different (e.g. perhaps a sniper would have a Garrus-style eyepiece or something and lighter armour), but beyond that I think enemies just looking different for the sake of looking different is a tad naff.

That is also true but in middle of a fight with a dozen or more enemies you can't take a risk with everyone and you can't plan long and focus on enemies with ease.

You can if you pause actually. And I doubt that's going in ME3.

As for different uniforms why not? Biotic based assault unit should look differently than engenieers or full-on-assault tanks.

It all depends. I just think that if they're going to have enemies that are largely the same for the most part aside from perhaps which weapon they use they shouldn't look obviously different "just 'cause" if you get me? There should be a real-world reason as to why they'd be different, and not just a difference purely for gameplay reasons alone. A krogan silhouette shouldn't be massively different just because one uses a shottie and the other uses an assault rifle, because that doesn't really make sense from a realistic standpoint. And I already kind of think ME2 put style over substance a little too much as it was sometimes and would desperately like to see this toned back down for ME3. A Blue Suns merc should always be in a Blue Suns blue set of armour for instance no matter what his/her speciality is, and shouldn't just have a different style because they're of a different class.

There should also be other ways to tell if somebody is a particular style of enemy aside from just plain looks. Movement should be one indicator: the way an enemy moves should perhaps suggest how they're going to act and thus what they are. A krogan who charges towards you is more likely to be a shotgun one for instance than the one still holding back and strafing towards cover that's a little further back. They both have the same basic look and silhouette, but from how they've acted the player can go "krogan A is a shotgun, krogan B is an AR"

[Brenon Holmes]

Terror_K wrote...

It all depends. I just think that if they're going to have enemies that are largely the same for the most part aside from perhaps which weapon they use they shouldn't look obviously different "just 'cause" if you get me? There should be a real-world reason as to why they'd be different, and not just a difference purely for gameplay reasons alone. A krogan silhouette shouldn't be massively different just because one uses a shottie and the other uses an assault rifle, because that doesn't really make sense from a realistic standpoint. And I already kind of think ME2 put style over substance a little too much as it was sometimes and would desperately like to see this toned back down for ME3. A Blue Suns merc should always be in a Blue Suns blue set of armour for instance no matter what his/her speciality is, and shouldn't just have a different style because they're of a different class.

There should also be other ways to tell if somebody is a particular style of enemy aside from just plain looks. Movement should be one indicator: the way an enemy moves should perhaps suggest how they're going to act and thus what they are. A krogan who charges towards you is more likely to be a shotgun one for instance than the one still holding back and strafing towards cover that's a little further back. They both have the same basic look and silhouette, but from how they've acted the player can go "krogan A is a shotgun, krogan B is an AR"

Man, need a thumbs up smiley emoticon.

This is well said, and I think is closer to a lot of the stuff we're trying to do. If someone's going to look different, it's because their gameplay is different (or should be), and there is an actual reason for them to look different. This should also be supported by their AI behaviours and general "feel". 

I'd really like to go into specifics, but I don't think it's really appropriate just yet.

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 27 mars 2011 - 04:31 .

[Razagon]

Terror_K wrote...

It all depends. I just think that if they're going to have enemies that are largely the same for the most part aside from perhaps which weapon they use they shouldn't look obviously different "just 'cause" if you get me? There should be a real-world reason as to why they'd be different, and not just a difference purely for gameplay reasons alone. A krogan silhouette shouldn't be massively different just because one uses a shottie and the other uses an assault rifle, because that doesn't really make sense from a realistic standpoint. And I already kind of think ME2 put style over substance a little too much as it was sometimes and would desperately like to see this toned back down for ME3. A Blue Suns merc should always be in a Blue Suns blue set of armour for instance no matter what his/her speciality is, and shouldn't just have a different style because they're of a different class.

There should also be other ways to tell if somebody is a particular style of enemy aside from just plain looks. Movement should be one indicator: the way an enemy moves should perhaps suggest how they're going to act and thus what they are. A krogan who charges towards you is more likely to be a shotgun one for instance than the one still holding back and strafing towards cover that's a little further back. They both have the same basic look and silhouette, but from how they've acted the player can go "krogan A is a shotgun, krogan B is an AR"

Agreed. Same Krogan who wields shotgun or rifle or switches to a sidearm should look the same if they are "the same".

[Terror_K]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Man, need a thumbs up smiley emoticon.

This is well said, and I think is closer to a lot of the stuff we're trying to do. If someone's going to look different, it's because their gameplay is different (or should be), and there is an actual reason for them to look different. This should also be supported by their AI behaviours and general "feel". 

I'd really like to go into specifics, but I don't think it's really appropriate just yet.

Go on, Brenon. You know you want to throw us all a bone. We're all starving for some ME3 info.

And if not for us, do it for this puppy...



You don't want to upset the puppy, do you? :innocent:

Modifié par Terror_K, 27 mars 2011 - 04:34 .

[Razagon]

We should indoctrinate him.

[Brenon Holmes]

Terror_K wrote...

Go on, Brenon. You know you want to throw us all a bone. We're all starving for some ME3 info.
You don't want to upset the puppy, do you? :innocent:

Oh wow... but... I like my thumbs. Preston would totally take my thumbs... and I need them to type... otherwise there'd be no spaces in my posts...

[Epic777]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Go on, Brenon. You know you want to throw us all a bone. We're all starving for some ME3 info.
You don't want to upset the puppy, do you? :innocent:

Oh wow... but... I like my thumbs. Preston would totally take my thumbs... and I need them to type... otherwise there'd be no spaces in my posts...

Well do the enemies have new voices.?"Sending in the drone", target has cloacked and my favorite "son of a ****" come to mind from me2

Modifié par Epic777, 27 mars 2011 - 05:20 .

[88mphSlayer]

i think a mixture of dead space and crysis 2 would be cool - both have a sense of "techno-immersion" like the sci-fi elements are bleeding over the video-gameness of the game itself, but it's not really essential