49 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthSliver]

Well the Chantry maybe spewing words out its *** but Sebastian strongly believes in that garbage and i respect the character for actually having feelings on certain things. Bioware did a good job there with that one.
Oh and people only are saying DA2 is bad because it used real world type conflicts. You can compare the Qunari hate to way people treat illegal immigrates in the USA. Or you can compare it to religion Aspect too, the Holy Wars done back in the 1500 the Crusades.
But the fact is DA2 story felt real leaving it in the DA universe. Everything that happen you can say was based off what we saw happening in DA:O. Templars holding Mages on a chain leash, Chantry not really taking sides. Even the way the Qunari acted, based on what Sten tells us(the Warden). So fact is DA2 story was realistic for its universe. But I do admit Bioware couldve used more time to polish the game, you can clearly see its not a polished game like most Bioware games you play.

[Parrk]

Grahagogilala wrote...

Parrk wrote...

Grahagogilala wrote...

Parrk wrote...

Grahagogilala wrote...

Parrk wrote...

Is it your intent to roll a new DA2 hate thread every time you take any sort of action from now on?

"Guys, I just had a bacon cheeseburger at 5 guys, and here is my verdict (I like the use of "verdict" here because it properly conveys the writer's intense feelings of self-importance). I don't like the game."

I wonder will you at some point resort to pretending to have done things in order to justify yet another pointless hate thread. Like, will you claim to have just finished shoveling your driveway when in actuality your were finishing up 15th prestige on bops?

What you seem to have overlooked is that you really do not need to conjur up reasons to roll a hate thread, because they are ultimately of no consequence and no one is playing gatekeeper or fact-checking the legitimacy of your claims.

If you are unhappy with the game, then of course you should communicate that its creators. If there is any chance of them caring or acting on your views or advice though, they will do so in response to your first mention of the issue. You gain nothing from additional complaints.

Where else if not the official game forums would you have me discuss the game?

I never suggested that you should not use these boards, or that you should refrain.   You could have appended your initial DA2 hate thread though.

I don't really agree that "I still am unhappy" is a seperate topic.

If you would have read my previous thread you would have noticed that it covered the drastic change of DA:O to DA2, not the abundance of religion in DA2. Therefore I made a new thread

Perhaps I've mischaracterized this thread.   So you are saying that instead of "I still don't like it", that this thread actually says "hey look, I  was able to find a few more reasons why I  don't like it........ps. I still don't like it."

A complaint thread is never about reasoning and logic, because it is ultimately a statement of the authors opinion based on undefined criteria.  It is ultimately little more than one person's opinion.  I tend to think that if a thread exists already that does the exact same thing (state the same opinion of the same person), then there is strong justification for an op edit over a new thread.

This favors continuity, contributes to a more full account of your reactions and opinions, and also prevents unique topics from falling off of page 1.

It's a win:win.

I really do not agree with you there. "A complaint thread is never about reasoning and logic, because it is
ultimately a statement of the authors opinion based on undefined
criteria."
What do you want, scientific proof? I am staing my opinion and since I did not like it that would fall into the complaint categoty, and therefore it is bad? Please tell me what part of "My final verdict" you donot understand.
And also what does "reasoning and logic...undefined criteria" have anything to do with anyones opinion. An opinion is a personal thought which has nothing to do with certaion criteria, the reasoning and logic behind my opinion has been posted in the OP

As long as this is your final verdict then we are all green lights and blue skies.

I suspect though that you will revisit the verdict as soon as you decide that you'd like to complain some more.  Fish gotta swim right?

[KirinDave]

Ahh. Okay then. You don't like This Kind Of Story.

Is it okay if I really liked this story? As someone who's been caught in a tug-of-war between secular and religious forces all my life, I was very happy there was a story that mirrored in fantastic scale some of the issues I dealt with as a child.

That said, I'm not sure why you're mad about Sebastian ducking out. Is it like some sort of value proposition? "I bought and paid for you, Sebatsian! You're with me until the end!"

Modifié par KirinDave, 21 mars 2011 - 06:14 .

[sevalaricgirl]

I like the game very much despite it's flaws but I would have much preferred that Sebastian be a completely different character. I did his personal quest but then I leave him in the chantry to pray and never use him. If I had not gotten signature edition, I would never purchase Sebastian. I think what Bioware did was a waste of a potentially good companion and for those who think he's a LI, not. If that's love, Bioware needs some lessons from DAO. Actually the entire thing was too Mass Effect like for me. Where was the Alistair like romance, Bioware? It was completely lacking. I hope they address the multitudes of problems in DLC but I will be waiting for reviews before I buy it. I should say that I don't play for the romance only. I play for the story but I found that my Hawke had to kill the very people she was trying to help, mages. Most mages, even apostates, would be too afraid to use blood magic but every mage in Kirkwall seems to be a blood mage. It was ridiculous and there was also no way around fighting the Arishok. I would have love to hand over Isabela to him. She was inconsequential to the game ending since she was long gone. Bioware took away choices that should have been allowed even in a linear story line.

[Hank_Da_Tank]

I also disagree... I thought that this was the most thought-provoking, well-laid out, realistic and dark storylines I have ever come across in a game. Most people who dislike it are too used to the: "I am the super-warrior that kills anything and everything and I will save the world by ending an apocalypse..." or other shallow crap...

[Grahagogilala]

KirinDave wrote...

Ahh. Okay then. You don't like This Kind Of Story.

Is it okay if I really liked this story? As someone who's been caught in a tug-of-war between secular and religious forces all my life, I was very happy there was a story that mirrored in fantastic scale some of the issues I dealt with as a child.

That said, I'm not sure why you're mad about Sebastian ducking out. Is it like some sort of value proposition? "I bought and paid for you, Sebatsian! You're with me until the end!"

I am very much ok with that you liked it, in fact I'm thrilled you did not feel the same disappointment I did.
Why I am mad about Sebastian is because he has a clear opinion which will not suit me and many other I am sure because of the clear standpoints he has of something mirrored in real life.
In fact it was him and Anders which I would not accept as DLC chars in DA2, the rest have a good level of their dedication to their various causes.

And it might be related that on your comparison with real life tugs-of-war between secular and religious groups I am very much for a certain group and against another, guess which?

//Graha

[fluorine7]

Seriously....I think people just angry that there's no happen ending. There's no way they can save the Chantry, no way to avoid open civil war, no way to make everyone happy, there's no single evil they can vent their anger to.

So instead of appreciate the game took a very refreshing approach in story telling, they complain the story is bad.

[Grahagogilala]

Parrk wrote...


As long as this is your final verdict then we are all green lights and blue skies.

I suspect though that you will revisit the verdict as soon as you decide that you'd like to complain some more.  Fish gotta swim right?

I will probably not be in the DA2 forums any longer, this is a goodbye and official declaration of disappointement of sorts. And on "fish gotta swim", I'd rather say "Steam has to get vented"

[Grahagogilala]

fluorine7 wrote...

Seriously....I think people just angry that there's no happen ending. There's no way they can save the Chantry, no way to avoid open civil war, no way to make everyone happy, there's no single evil they can vent their anger to.

So instead of appreciate the game took a very refreshing approach in story telling, they complain the story is bad.

This has nothing to do with the cliffhanger-ish ending, I got what I paid for in length and content.

[Fredvdp]

xnoxiousx wrote...

Everyone agrees this is worst bioware game.

I don't agree. I think Origins wasn't as good as DA2 because of the cliché storyline.

[Gentleman Moogle]

Noatz wrote...

xnoxiousx wrote...

Everyone agrees this is worst bioware game.

Even sonic ds was better.

Yes, everyone agrees. Everyone. Let me just confirm...

*Hello, hello? Is that Jesus? Can I just get you to confirm that DA2 was the worst Bioware game and that even Sonic DS was better?*

*Yes my child, it was the worst Bioware game and even Sonic DS was better.*

There we are. Everyone agrees. Even Jesus.

I lol'd. 

[Milana_Saros]

Grahagogilala wrote...

*OP snip*

I'd have to say that I agree.  I just wrote my thoughts on the review thread. At first the story seemed like any other but Act 3 and epsecially the ending left me tired and sort of hollow. Granted, I'm tired from work atm too but finishing DA2 did not cheer me up one bit.

What appals me most is the Anders and bomb thing. I'm beyond thinking about the thing on real life standards, I personally spared my romanced Anders but to even have such a thing in a game, something so easily compearable to real life terrorism...why on Earth put something like that to a video game? That thing alone made this game leave a bitter taste in my mouth and not want to re-play...I hope they make future DLCs or expansions more cheerful.

[Funker Shepard]

xnoxiousx wrote...

Everyone who is smart and matters.

It's funny, my experience is the opposite.

[Danjaru]

Hank_Da_Tank wrote...

I also disagree... I thought that this was the most thought-provoking, well-laid out, realistic and dark storylines I have ever come across in a game. Most people who dislike it are too used to the: "I am the super-warrior that kills anything and everything and I will save the world by ending an apocalypse..." or other shallow crap...

So basically you're saying that people who prefered Origins story over DA2 are stupid and shallow? wow...

I did not care for DA2's story at all, instead of making it a difficult choice at the end about which side you should choose by making them both compelling and sympathedic. We got 2 incredibly crazy sides and I almost wished for a "I think I'll just kill you all" choice.

People seems to forget that Origins story was not all about "saving the world from the archdemon". That was the overarching reason yes. But the story was about a man who's uniting a country, by taking on the demented Dwarf that if killed won't give you the advantage of Rock-men. The crazy elf who has enslaved a population due to his anger, yet his anger is justified. The Arl who could help you but first you have to go on what could be a fools quest to get a remedy. Even the choice between templars and mages, do you side with the Templars by judging all the mages by the actions of a few or do you help them while being unsure how far the corruption has spread. And in each of these storylines you do have clear choices that can drastically change your experience. Even Awakening had really tough choices (which city to save, kill or not kill architect).

Dragon Age 2 boils down to "save the mages, who from what we've seen ALL are blood mages/abominations" or "Save the templars, who kill mages for sport, make them tranquil and even rape them". Or "Kill the Arishok 1 on 1 or kill the Arishock 4 vs 20+" all while your companions continously whine and moan about their lives. And no matter what you choose, you don't actually effect ANYTHING except the occasional cameo from a previous act, and even then no matter what you chose you'd still see the same result.

That said I personally don't prefer "save the world" type scenarios. But Origins did it so well and DA2 did it's story so poorly so the choice is obvious.

Modifié par Danjaru, 21 mars 2011 - 07:00 .

[Milana_Saros]

Danjaru wrote...
I almost wished for a "I think I'll just kill you all" choice.

Fealt like that too towards the end. When Orsino turned into the Harvester I was just...could I jump down from the platform alltogether? Please? Pretty please?

[fluorine7]

Grahagogilala wrote...

fluorine7 wrote...

Seriously....I think people just angry that there's no happen ending. There's no way they can save the Chantry, no way to avoid open civil war, no way to make everyone happy, there's no single evil they can vent their anger to.

So instead of appreciate the game took a very refreshing approach in story telling, they complain the story is bad.

This has nothing to do with the cliffhanger-ish ending, I got what I paid for in length and content.

Length and Content? This game runs somewhere between 40-45 hours based on how many side quest you end up doing. For fully voiced RPG games, it is decent length. So it's really not about length and content. 

And I personally don't consider the ending a cliffhanger. DA 2 explained how the civil war started. Hawke served as an unwilling fuse. For me, Hawke and Kirkwall story is over. Next stage could be a new hero or Hawke move on to another location, start new adventure. 

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

I hope Sebastian isn't lying. I want him coming back for some rough angry sex.

[fluorine7]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

I hope Sebastian isn't lying. I want him coming back for some rough angry sex.

Sebastian is a chantry boy, he'll never.... do rough angry sex. He wants a chaste wedding in the eyes of maker or something boring like that. 

[Hank_Da_Tank]

Danjaru wrote...

Hank_Da_Tank wrote...

I also disagree... I thought that this was the most thought-provoking, well-laid out, realistic and dark storylines I have ever come across in a game. Most people who dislike it are too used to the: "I am the super-warrior that kills anything and everything and I will save the world by ending an apocalypse..." or other shallow crap...

So basically you're saying that people who prefered Origins story over DA2 are stupid and shallow? wow...

I did not care for DA2's story at all, instead of making it a difficult choice at the end about which side you should choose by making them both compelling and sympathedic. We got 2 incredibly crazy sides and I almost wished for a "I think I'll just kill you all" choice.

People seems to forget that Origins story was not all about "saving the world from the archdemon". That was the overarching reason yes. But the story was about a man who's uniting a country, by taking on the demented Dwarf that if killed won't give you the advantage of Rock-men. The crazy elf who has enslaved a population due to his anger, yet his anger is justified. The Arl who could help you but first you have to go on what could be a fools quest to get a remedy. Even the choice between templars and mages, do you side with the Templars by judging all the mages by the actions of a few or do you help them while being unsure how far the corruption has spread. And in each of these storylines you do have clear choices that can drastically change your experience. Even Awakening had really tough choices (which city to save, kill or not kill architect).

Dragon Age 2 boils down to "save the mages, who from what we've seen ALL are blood mages/abominations" or "Save the templars, who kill mages for sport, make them tranquil and even rape them". Or "Kill the Arishok 1 on 1 or kill the Arishock 4 vs 20+" all while your companions continously whine and moan about their lives. And no matter what you choose, you don't actually effect ANYTHING except the occasional cameo from a previous act, and even then no matter what you chose you'd still see the same result.

That said I personally don't prefer "save the world" type scenarios. But Origins did it so well and DA2 did it's story so poorly so the choice is obvious.

I didn't mean it like that  . I mean that the save the world is a clichéd and over-used story idea; I loved DA:O none the less, but I thought this one was more deep and more realistic. Some people prefer Fantasy to be shallow/ have a happy ending to be able to escape the reality of the world which often has tragic endings, so it makes sense to me that there are people who wouldn't like a deep tragedy and would rather a comedy or 'fairy tale ending' to relieve them from their personal lives. (I don't think people that liked DA:O are shallow, I loved it, but I think that the quality of the story is much lower IMO.

[terdferguson123]

xnoxiousx wrote...

Noatz wrote...

xnoxiousx wrote...

Everyone agrees this is worst bioware game.

Even sonic ds was better.

Yes, everyone agrees. Everyone. Let me just confirm...

*Hello, hello? Is that Jesus? Can I just get you to confirm that DA2 was the worst Bioware game and that even Sonic DS was better?*

*Yes my child, it was the worst Bioware game and even Sonic DS was better.*

There we are. Everyone agrees. Even Jesus.

Everyone who is smart and matters.

This is the dumbest thing I have ever read.


this is for you

[AlexXIV]

terdferguson123 wrote...

xnoxiousx wrote...

Noatz wrote...

xnoxiousx wrote...

Everyone agrees this is worst bioware game.

Even sonic ds was better.

Yes, everyone agrees. Everyone. Let me just confirm...

*Hello, hello? Is that Jesus? Can I just get you to confirm that DA2 was the worst Bioware game and that even Sonic DS was better?*

*Yes my child, it was the worst Bioware game and even Sonic DS was better.*

There we are. Everyone agrees. Even Jesus.

Everyone who is smart and matters.

This is the dumbest thing I have ever read.


this is for you

Damnit because of you I ended up at a video with Tom Cruise preaching about Scientology.

[Serelir]

Danjaru wrote...

Dragon Age 2 boils down to "save the mages, who from what we've seen ALL are blood mages/abominations" or "Save the templars, who kill mages for sport, make them tranquil and even rape them". Or "Kill the Arishok 1 on 1 or kill the Arishock 4 vs 20+" all while your companions continously whine and moan about their lives. And no matter what you choose, you don't actually effect ANYTHING except the occasional cameo from a previous act, and even then no matter what you chose you'd still see the same result.

Having reached the final battle and not feeling enough enthusiasm to finish it, I agree with Danjaru's assessment. DA2 has a complicated story requiring tough choices. I certainly wouldn't want it all to be easy sailing. However, the whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Though I strongly identify with mages (and with freedom of religion as far as that goes), there's never a point at which my character can make the case for mages policing themselves. The only people trying to bring the sides together and get rid of the crazies, Thrask and Elthina, both get toasted, and my character is powerless to intervene. I'm also left without any two-handers in my party - is it jocks vs. nerds as usual? None of the romance options were satisfying, and Sebastian may as well not have been in my party at all.  I'm not complaining about his character, because we do need antagonists, but I wish I'd had a DLC character on my side.

I also can't say it's not a good story. It's a well-written tragedy that reflects some real life situations (Afghanistan, anyone? Seen the pictures in Der Spiegel today?). It's simply a story that  I don't wish to relive in another playthrough.

Edit: I'm feeling better about the game now that I've chosen sides and played through to the end. I still found it illogical that the blood mages turned on the person trying to help mages, but that's a game for you.

Modifié par Tuilinn Celeborne, 23 mars 2011 - 12:18 .

[Lulia]

Are you basically saying that you think that the concept of people having a religion in real life deserves more respect than for it to be used as a tool to create impact and controversy and drama in a computer game when it isn't necessary, especially when it seems to reflects badly on religions?

You want to be devout, but you feel that you are being forced into being a bad guy?

If that i what you are saying, then i'd have to say that i tend to agree.

I had no problem at all with Sebastian though. I know he went a little crazy at Anders, but his mother/grand cleric had just been blown to pieces for no other reason than Anders having a tantrum.

If that isn't what you are saying, then i have no idea what you are tyring to say

[ZombiePowered]

Mages should be watched. When they weren't they ended up ruling Tevinter and sacrificing slaves to impress their rivals. It may oppress some undeserving people, but it prevents a much greater evil that would be inflicted on the majority of people who aren't mages.

Also, religious conflict, both between different philosophies and within the religion itself, is an excellent conflict to bring into a game. The game is a story, and stories are art and are supposed to deal with conflicts in reality. There is no reason a game shouldn't make you think about reality, and in fact if it is made well it should. If you want mindless entertainment that doesn't force you make difficult decisions that bring real life conflicts into play, then don't play good RPGs.

And characters aren't there to support you all the time. They are there to represent differing views in the world and make you think about your position on these conflicts. I changed my mind from supporting complete freedom for mages to realizing the necessity of at least educating and watching them because of the actions of Anders and Merrill and the consequences they suffered. You can't, and shouldn't want to be, everyone's friend all the time. Sometimes you genuinely disagree with someone, and that should be (and is) represented in DA2.

[Serelir]

Guilty until proven Innocent (and keep 'em locked up even then)
- The Prison Industry of Thedas (PIT)