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[Vukodlak]

Eire Icon wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Eire Icon wrote...

The manner in which Anders turned his back on the grey wardens really made me dislike him from the start of DA2. The Wardens are supposed to stay neutral and not involve themselves in the politics of the land. Anders slapped himself into the middle of the whole Mage v Templars war knowingly and subvertly and then blew up an innocent. For Shame Anders, For Shame

Well, Wardens are supposed to be free from Chantry involvement and the WC recruited a templar and allowed him to templar all over Anders. So to be fair, they shot first.

And it's not like he announces it, anyway. There are probably not that many people who know that The Mage Who Blew Up The Chantry is named Anders, let alone that Anders was a Grey Warden.

Anders turned his back on the Wardens, he certainly does not deserve the protection the title grants him. Once he turned his back on them he then went against everything they stand for.

The Champion of Ferelden knows what happened, and he's gonna slap the taste out of his mouth when he catches up with him

Not that becoming a Gray Warden ever protected him to begin with. The Templars still came after him refusing to accept the right of conscription. It was really "The Warden" protecting him not being one. That kept him from the Templars during Awakening.

[erilben]

SurelyForth wrote...

Well, Wardens are supposed to be free from Chantry involvement and the WC recruited a templar and allowed him to templar all over Anders. So to be fair, they shot first.

It's that short storty that claims the Wardens recruit a templar. I can't believe that short story happen though. Anders supposedly killed a couple of Wardens in it, but none of the Wardens you find in the game are concerned you have Anders with you. They act like that short story never happened.

Stroud says something like to Anders "aren't you suppose to be dead"? if Anders died in the Keep, or "didn't you quit being a Warden"? if he lived.

If you import a "dead" Anders save, and get Nathaniel's quest, Nathaniel is shocked (and seems happy) to see Anders alive. He says he saw Anders' body and everything. Anders explains that when the Keep fell, he just left the Wardens then. Nate just saw a badly burned body and assumed it was Anders. So how exactly did that short story take place?

Modifié par erilben, 22 mars 2011 - 06:56 .

[NedPepper]

Eire Icon wrote...

The manner in which Anders turned his back on the grey wardens really made me dislike him from the start of DA2. The Wardens are supposed to stay neutral and not involve themselves in the politics of the land. Anders slapped himself into the middle of the whole Mage v Templars war knowingly and subvertly and then blew up an innocent. For Shame Anders, For Shame

Anders only became a Warden so he didn't have to go back to the circle....we pretty much MADE HIM become a Warden...

[silver-crescent]

Actually I'm not sure if Anders really has 20 or so years like would be expected from the taint. Spirits/demons seem to affect people's lifespans so who knows. Wynne and Avernus certainly had their lives prolonged.

[berelinde]

What surprises me is that Anders never once tells the PC about his future as a Grey Warden. He never tells Hawke that he will eventually have to seek death in the Deep Roads or die slowly of the taint. He never tells a female Hawke that he will probably never be able to give her children. Maybe he doesn't have the dreams anymore, now that Justice has taken up residence, but the Joining is for life, even if Anders is no longer a part of them.

Then again, I can see how the conversation would go. "I'm an abomination, you know. And I'm also pretty close to sterile. And I'm dying." Maybe it was too much drama.

[silver-crescent]

berelinde wrote...

What surprises me is that Anders never once tells the PC about his future as a Grey Warden. He never tells Hawke that he will eventually have to seek death in the Deep Roads or die slowly of the taint. He never tells a female Hawke that he will probably never be able to give her children. Maybe he doesn't have the dreams anymore, now that Justice has taken up residence, but the Joining is for life, even if Anders is no longer a part of them.

Then again, I can see how the conversation would go. "I'm an abomination, you know. And I'm also pretty close to sterile. And I'm dying." Maybe it was too much drama.

Actually, where did that Grey Warden sterility idea came from? Thinking about it doesn't really add up, for three reasons

1) For starters, how could Alistair be made king if he couldn't have heirs?

2) The god baby's existance. If the Warden was infertile that wouldn't work.

3) And Anders actually even mentions having children with Hawke in the last romane convo.

It's probably not so much about Wardens being infertile and more about them usually not getting involved in relationships and thus not having kids.

Modifié par silver-crescent, 22 mars 2011 - 10:39 .

[Wulfram]

silver-crescent wrote...

Actually, where did that Grey Warden sterility idea came from? Thinking about it doesn't really add up, for three reasons
being infertile and more about them usually not getting involved in relationships and thus not having kids.

Wardens aren't completely sterile, except with other wardens, but they do have reduced fertility.

[Sabariel]

silver-crescent wrote...

berelinde wrote...

What surprises me is that Anders never once tells the PC about his future as a Grey Warden. He never tells Hawke that he will eventually have to seek death in the Deep Roads or die slowly of the taint. He never tells a female Hawke that he will probably never be able to give her children. Maybe he doesn't have the dreams anymore, now that Justice has taken up residence, but the Joining is for life, even if Anders is no longer a part of them.

Then again, I can see how the conversation would go. "I'm an abomination, you know. And I'm also pretty close to sterile. And I'm dying." Maybe it was too much drama.

Actually, where did that Grey Warden sterility idea came from? Thinking about it doesn't really add up, for three reasons

1) For starters, how could Alistair be made king if he couldn't have heirs?

2) The god baby's existance. If the Warden was infertile that wouldn't work.

3) And Anders actually even mentions having children with Hawke in the last romane convo.

It's probably not so much about Wardens being infertile and more about them usually not getting involved in relationships and thus not having kids.

1. Alistair can make babies, just not with another Grey Warden. He can have babies with a "normal" woman.

2. Morrigan is a "normal" woman so the chances of conception go up. The fact that conception took place during a magic ritual probably helped... a lot.

3. Hawke is a "normal" woman. Chances of conception go up.

[Wulfram]

Sabariel wrote...

2. Morrigan is a "normal" woman so the chances of conception go up. The fact that conception took place during a magic ritual probably helped... a lot.

Morrigan has a kid even if the warden slept with her even if you didn't do the dark ritual

[Sabariel]

Wulfram wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

2. Morrigan is a "normal" woman so the chances of conception go up. The fact that conception took place during a magic ritual probably helped... a lot.

Morrigan has a kid even if the warden slept with her even if you didn't do the dark ritual

...Who says Morrigan didn't use a different magical touch for that? :innocent:

[Inujade]

silver-crescent wrote...

Actually, where did that Grey Warden sterility idea came from? Thinking about it doesn't really add up, for three reasons

1) For starters, how could Alistair be made king if he couldn't have heirs?

2) The god baby's existance. If the Warden was infertile that wouldn't work.

3) And Anders actually even mentions having children with Hawke in the last romane convo.

It's probably not so much about Wardens being infertile and more about them usually not getting involved in relationships and thus not having kids.

Alistair tells you about the reduced Grey Warden fertility in DAO, and Gaider himself confirmed that two Wardens cannot concieve by normal means. A Grey Warden and a normal person have a chance, though slim.

Also keep in mind that the Wardens are a very secretive group. Alistair had been a Warden for six months and didn't know how he was supposed to kill an Archdemon! It's unlikely that anyone who had the power to assign a King even knew about his fertility problems.

Perhaps Anders doesn't even know, or he figures he and Hawke have a chance.

[silver-crescent]

Oh so they're only completely infertile when it's 2 grey wardens. That's more logical. But still unfortunate if Alistair ends up marrying the Warden

[Inujade]

silver-crescent wrote...

Oh so they're only completely infertile when it's 2 grey wardens. That's more logical. But still unfortunate if Alistair ends up marrying the Warden

This actually gets brought up in the convo after you get engaged! He worries about that, and you can put him at ease with a joke ("We might not be able to have an heir" "well, it won't be for a lack of trying!"), but I have a feeling this could be a plot point. Ferelden is a very unstable country, and with no heir to the throne (Anora seems to be barren as well) things could get Civil War-y.

But as far as F!Hawke and Anders, they might be able to have children. Especially since Morrigan proves that magic can help with these things.

[Heidenreich]

Anders only joins the Wardens because THE WARDEN is all "This prison isn't nearly so bad as the one you're running from. At least in this one, we can have pets. See? Here's a kitten!"

Trading one prison for another. Which wouldn't have been so bad, but once the Warden goes home to Denerim (or off with Morrigan, or disappears in to the sunset) and the wardens send someone else to take over - they make him give up his cat and put a templar on his ass. The Warden was his friend, and understood him. Once She (or he) is gone though, the Wardens are all "CRAZY APOSTATE, NO CATS 4 U".

Its right back to the prison mentality. Except now he's joined Justice.. and the whole "I'm just out for the right to love, live, and shoot lightning at fools" mentality gives way to "Everyone should have the right to be free to LIVE"

Thus he runs away from the Wardens, just like he runs away from the circle. One prison for another.

[Sharn]

Do you think Duncan was in his thirties? I certaintly don't. He sounded like late 40's. So Ander's probably has another 10 years or so.

When its time, he would probably rather go to Kittenmarsh to cuddle kittens for the rest of his life rather then fight in the deep roads I certainly would.

Modifié par Sharn, 22 mars 2011 - 03:50 .

[Autodoll]

Inujade wrote...

Alistair tells you about the reduced Grey Warden fertility in DAO, and Gaider himself confirmed that two Wardens cannot concieve by normal means. A Grey Warden and a normal person have a chance, though slim.

Also keep in mind that the Wardens are a very secretive group. Alistair had been a Warden for six months and didn't know how he was supposed to kill an Archdemon! It's unlikely that anyone who had the power to assign a King even knew about his fertility problems.

Perhaps Anders doesn't even know, or he figures he and Hawke have a chance.

What I want to know, is why did Anders even bring this up? They're fugitives, he's a terrorist and an apostate - Hawke may be also. They ignited a war and will be unwelcome in every nation apart from Tevinter - even the Qunari probably won't ally with them and allow them to keep their freedom. He's losing his mind, and losing control over the entity inside him. And he wants kids. Really? I find a life-on-the-run, hunted-by-everyone, and oh-by-the-way-I'm-an-abomination environment detirmental to a child.
Or was he simply refering to "our children" as in the children of mages in general? If he meant that then I suppose I could see what he means, but otherwise it seems like he's just moving super fast. "Thanks for not killing me, now let's have kids. Oh, you want to fight Meredith first? Well, okay. But after. While we're running for our lives."

[Asdara]

I could see Anders not knowing about the reduced fertility - or not thinking the rule would apply to himself, since that is something he tends to do a lot. It isn't like the Warden Commander had time to be explaining the finer points of the order during the Amaranthine crisis, and honestly I don't think any of my Wardens would know all of those finer points themselves. It isn't as though we got an instruction booklet sent over from the Anderfells to browse in our spare time once the Blight was over. Don't get me wrong, I love my Warden, but there's a lot of the blind leading the blind going on by putting her in charge of the Ferelden Wardens. Blight-ender status notwithstanding, we were only 1 year out of recruitment when we were hit with the leadership role and never got a full introduction into the mysteries or culture of the Wardens.

Anders turning his back on the Wardens kinda pissed me off though - and the "come and go as you please" policy that the Ferelden Wardens seem to have adopted - King Alistair being the precedent I do believe. I bet membership is hardly as optional in places that have a firmly established Warden order with actual infrastructure.