31 réponses à ce sujet

[UsagiVindaloo]

This is more of a speculation/debate question about possibilities for ME3, not an outright "will this happen?" Interested to find out people's opinions.

I'm sure that many people ended up "leaving" their ME1 love interest for someone in ME2, whether it was with an outright break-up in LotSB with Liara or just not remaining faithful. I'd imagine that if both LIs are alive in ME3, either the ME1 relationship is toast ("You cheated on me!" or whatever) or you might have a choice between both LIs.

However, it's also very possible that you could have a new relationship in ME2 with someone who ends up dead by the end. Some people deliberately (or accidentally!) killed their love interests in the Suicide Mission for drama or what have you. Also, in the case of Thane and possibly even Jack (she has neural degeneration), there's a chance that they may die of natural causes between ME2 and 3.

If that happens, do you think it would be possible or "realistic" for a bittersweet reunion and rekindling with your original ME1 love interest? Would that feel like a satisfying way to come full circle (i.e. two lovers parted, not able to be together again so decide to move on with their lives, but after a lot of heartache are brought back together again)? Or would it feel like a cheap copout where Shepard gets to have his/her cake and eat it too?

In my opinion, I think it should depend on the love interest. Liara? Definitely would make sense to get back with her. For one thing, it makes sense with the whole asari outlook, that you take the joys and sorrows of the person you're with for the short time you have them before they die (admittedly, that's more in a situation of lifespans, but still). For another, she strongly implies just such a scenario when you talk to her after romancing an ME2 LI. Paraphrased, she says, "You have someone, and I need to figure all this out. Maybe someday, it will be right for us, but until then, you deserve to be happy." Considering how easy it is to rekindle things with her while your LI is still alive, I can imagine it wouldn't be too hard to rekindle things after they died.

Kaidan is a different kettle of fish. I think there would be a lot of pain on both sides of that to work through. He obviously feels very hurt and betrayed when you see him on Horizon, which in turn can result in Fem!Shep feeling hurt and angry and turning to someone else, which then hurts Kaidan, which then hurts Shepard, etc etc. I suspect if Shepard went running back to Kaidan as soon as her ME2 interest died, the kneejerk response would be, "Oh great, I don't even rate above a dead guy." Having said that, I think it should be possible if handled delicately and *well*. I could easily see a very moving story where, after Thane's death (or Garrus or Jacob's), Shepard is mourning and struggling to deal civilly with Kaidan during ME3, but over a long, long time (i.e. entirety of the game) they prove to be of mutual comfort to each other and finally begin to forgive each other and decide that what they had is worth salvaging, even after all of the "betrayals".

Ashley... I'm just not seeing her ever taking Shepard back if he had ever "cheated" on her, regardless of if the person had died (in fact, their death would probably make her all the more intent on refusing him). I think Shepard would oddly enough have a better chance by breaking up with his ME2 LI and telling Ashley that *she* is the only one he wants; if he goes the death route, Ash would probably feel that he's totally sidestepping the issue and not actually "choosing", and she'd whap him upside the head for it.

[Commander_Adept]

What I should do is make a maleshep, romance Ashley, then betray her for Tali in ME2. That'd be great. Cheated on with an alien, a friend. Lololol

[Pwener2313]

Im a Maleshep who saved Kaidan, so in my point of view, the VS should get the boot. After everyone risks life and limb in ME1, he/she just abandons Shepard to his/her fate with Cerberus and the Collectors? That's outright betrayal in my book. If the VS returns in Arrival/ME3, Im telling them to go screw themselves. I considered Kaidan my Shepard's best friend (sorry garrus) in ME1 (Garrus in ME2) and it was a real shock to see him act like an idiot just because of Cerberus. He ranted just like the council did in ME1, and I killed those fools for it.

[UsagiVindaloo]

^ Oh yeah, I'm not saying that anyone MUST romance the VS or whatever if their ME2 LI came down with the death. ;-) Just that I can see some players/Shepards having moved on because they figured that that ship had sailed etc, and I'm wondering if it would be good game design, not to mention "realistic", if that ship returned to port after Thane/Jack/whoever had died, if only as an option.

[Pwener2313]

Forme, that fictional friendship is dead, and I would think the same if I had romanced Ashley.

[UsagiVindaloo]

I can understand that. In my recent Paragade Shepard's case, she was in love with Kaidan (he's part of the reason she grew to be less Renegade than she started out with) and was looking forward to reuniting with him. Then Horizon happened and while he admittedly was more angry about Cerberus than her (i.e. his concern was that she was being manipulated), she was still hurt enough that she lashed back at him and basically decided that he had obviously moved on and didn't want her any longer, so she wasn't going to wait for him either.

Then she meets Thane and it's pretty much love/lust at first sight; she never thought she'd ever get the chance to meet a man like him, and there he is all... drellly and sexy. ;-) I'm actually thinking she holds off for a bit because of the whole dying thing (even may try to get with Samara since she reminds Shepard of Liara) but eventually they get together and everything is good and perfect and awesome.

Of course, in ME3, there's a chance Thane might be dead, and *that* is when I could potentially see my Shepard reconnecting with Kaidan, depending on how it's played. Of course, it could easily come across as, "My first choice died, so I guess I'll settle for you," which would be horrible, but I wouldn't mind a more heartfelt and difficult path where Shepard is still grieving Thane, Kaidan feels simultaneously guilty for his behavior on Horizon and angry that Shepard moved on (though also realizing he set himself up for that), and initially neither of them are gung ho for getting back together. But over time, I could see the feelings starting to rekindle and they give it a second chance.


See, my male Shepard doesn't have as much of a problem because his ME1 romance was Liara, who aside from a snippy comment during LotSB doesn't give him much grief over it. Of course, he also saved his ME2 LI (Tali). ;-) Still, he felt rather sad and regretful during the last bit of LotSB, as he did care for Liara, knows she cares for him, and recognizes that they made (and still make) a great couple. If Tali ends up dying in ME3, if I didn't stop playing right then and there out of fangirl!nerdrage, I would probably have that Shepard return to Liara if possible.

[Jason_53]

I think is all a matter of choices: you can decide to remain faithful to yout ME1 LI after Horizon (both Ashley and Kaidan send Shepard apologies by mail) or not.
None of my femsheps remained faithful to kaidan, and one remained faitful to Liara.
All my malesheps remained faithful to Ashley and/or Liara. 
To have a new Li for ME2 I went to masseffectsaves.com and imported paragon and renegade shepards who romanced no one, problem solved.
Therefore Ash and kaidan will be dead in some of my ME3 playthrougs, and in others there will be a good fight between Kaidan/Jacob/Garrus  

I look forward to a reunion with my ME1 LI, specially Ashley, .
After all Bioware said they were too valuable to risk their lives on a suicide mission and that they would return in ME3.
I´m holding them to that promise

[UsagiVindaloo]

Jason_53 wrote...

I think is all a matter of choices: you can decide to remain faithful to yout ME1 LI after Horizon (both Ashley and Kaidan send Shepard apologies by mail) or not.
None of my femsheps remained faithful to kaidan, and one remained faitful to Liara.
All my malesheps remained faithful to Ashley and/or Liara. 
To have a new Li for ME2 I went to masseffectsaves.com and imported paragon and renegade shepards who romanced no one, problem solved.
Therefore Ash and kaidan will be dead in some of my ME3 playthrougs, and in others there will be a good fight between Kaidan/Jacob/Garrus  

I look forward to a reunion with my ME1 LI, specially Ashley, .
After all Bioware said they were too valuable to risk their lives on a suicide mission and that they would return in ME3.
I´m holding them to that promise

Unfortunately I am playing the XBox version of ME1 and 2 so the whole masseffectsaves.com thing isn't an option, nor is editing. If it was, I would totally go back and remove my main Shepard's ME1 romance with Liara in favor of him secretly having a thing for Tali. :3

I can sort of see your point about choosing to remain faithful or not. I suppose the question is, is it still within the realms of possibility for the relationship to survive if you're NOT faithful? Plenty of relationships in reality end up working out that way (e.g. couple is together, breaks up, each person goes and dates other people, then years down the line meet again, discover they've both grown and matured and end up getting back together). I could see it working in ME3, but I think it would have to be handled *very* delicately both in terms of how Shepard behaves and how the writers would structure it.

[betd2]

Rebounding with your ex? classy.

[UsagiVindaloo]

betd2 wrote...

Rebounding with your ex? classy.

Heh, hence why it would have to be handled with a deft touch. As you say, rebounding with your ex isn't too classy. Reconnecting with an old lover where things went sour and finding that, after lots of tragedy and heartache, you're both in a better place? I think I could live with that.

[Jason_53]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Jason_53 wrote...

I think is all a matter of choices: you can decide to remain faithful to yout ME1 LI after Horizon (both Ashley and Kaidan send Shepard apologies by mail) or not.
None of my femsheps remained faithful to kaidan, and one remained faitful to Liara.
All my malesheps remained faithful to Ashley and/or Liara. 
To have a new Li for ME2 I went to masseffectsaves.com and imported paragon and renegade shepards who romanced no one, problem solved.
Therefore Ash and kaidan will be dead in some of my ME3 playthrougs, and in others there will be a good fight between Kaidan/Jacob/Garrus  

I look forward to a reunion with my ME1 LI, specially Ashley, .
After all Bioware said they were too valuable to risk their lives on a suicide mission and that they would return in ME3.
I´m holding them to that promise

Unfortunately I am playing the XBox version of ME1 and 2 so the whole masseffectsaves.com thing isn't an option, nor is editing. If it was, I would totally go back and remove my main Shepard's ME1 romance with Liara in favor of him secretly having a thing for Tali. :3

I can sort of see your point about choosing to remain faithful or not. I suppose the question is, is it still within the realms of possibility for the relationship to survive if you're NOT faithful? Plenty of relationships in reality end up working out that way (e.g. couple is together, breaks up, each person goes and dates other people, then years down the line meet again, discover they've both grown and matured and end up getting back together). I could see it working in ME3, but I think it would have to be handled *very* delicately both in terms of how Shepard behaves and how the writers would structure it.

What you just said describes(and I remember that Mr. Priestly used the same analogy in the old forums about 2 years ago) the whole Indiana Jones Series: In the first movie Indy and Marion have a hot romance (both had an old crush for each other) then in the next two movies Indy has a romance with a cabaret singer and a **** archeologist and finally in the last movie he reunites with Marion (who had his child but married to another guy) and they, after finding that the flame was still burning, forgive each other, get married and live happyly everafter.
So is very possible that in ME3 both Shepard and his old flame can reunite if they decide that the love they feel for each other is stronger that any "adventure" they had in the past.
The opposite can also happen: they both decide to let it go and remain with their new (ME2) LI if he/she survived the mission.
I have the feeling the writers will follow that path: let you decide.
Very interesting post.
Thank you

[Liec]

While it'd be cool to have different dialogue play if the ME2 LI died in the suicide mission when talking to a romanced Kaidan... I'd be very surprised if they give that level of complexity to the script.

The most I actually expect is that something will happen if you have two characters romanced and both are still alive. If the ME2 character died or you broke up with him after the suicide mission, then it'll most likely be like it never happened :s (and how would Kaidan find out anyway ?)

[UsagiVindaloo]

Liec wrote...

While it'd be cool to have different dialogue play if the ME2 LI died in the suicide mission when talking to a romanced Kaidan... I'd be very surprised if they give that level of complexity to the script.

The most I actually expect is that something will happen if you have two characters romanced and both are still alive. If the ME2 character died or you broke up with him after the suicide mission, then it'll most likely be like it never happened :s (and how would Kaidan find out anyway ?)

Haha, good point. Suppose Shepard could just stay quiet. Though the potential for high-larity could ensue:

Kaidan: Thanks for inviting me up to your room, Shepard. I'm glad we could put all this behi-....
Shepard: What is it?
Kaidan: Shepard, why are there fifteen identical leather coats in your closet?
Shepard: Ummm... I, uh, decided to become a dominatrix in my spare time?
Kaidan: And what's with the photo of the lizard on your desk?
Shepard: Hey, that's not a lizard, that's my... um... er, I mean, yes, that is a lizard. His name is, um, Bane, and he's my favorite lizard. Why do you ask?
Kaidan: ... have you been licking this photo frame?
Shepard: ... I needed to get my fix somehow.


But in all seriousness, I do see your point that actually recognizing the difference between "No ME2 LI interest here, nosirree!" and "dead ME2 LI" may be a bit beyond what they're aiming for... although they DO say that there are supposed to be a thousand variables that are getting imported, so who knows.

Actually, here's an odd question; if you romanced Liara in the first game, what does she say in LotSB if you romanced an ME2 LI who got killed in the suicide mission? I know normally she makes some snarky comment about, "trying to get under Tali's helmet" or "replacing Thane's dead wife", as well as some LI specific dialogue during the talk in Shepard's quarters. The latter probably wouldn't happen, but if, say, you killed off Tali or Thane or whoever before doing LotSB and trying to talk with her about the relationship, does she still fire back with those comments?

[UsagiVindaloo]

Jason_53 wrote...

What you just said describes(and I remember that Mr. Priestly used the same analogy in the old forums about 2 years ago) the whole Indiana Jones Series: In the first movie Indy and Marion have a hot romance (both had an old crush for each other) then in the next two movies Indy has a romance with a cabaret singer and a **** archeologist and finally in the last movie he reunites with Marion (who had his child but married to another guy) and they, after finding that the flame was still burning, forgive each other, get married and live happyly everafter.
So is very possible that in ME3 both Shepard and his old flame can reunite if they decide that the love they feel for each other is stronger that any "adventure" they had in the past.
The opposite can also happen: they both decide to let it go and remain with their new (ME2) LI if he/she survived the mission.
I have the feeling the writers will follow that path: let you decide.
Very interesting post.
Thank you

Yeah, that was IMHO the best part of the fourth Indy movie, the reconnection of Indy and Marion (though to be honest, I'm not entirely certain why the heck they broke up in the first place, but whatever).

I do hope that the writers will allow people to "decide" in some form or fashion what they want to do about their LIs. They made a start with Liara in LotSB, but even then it's not entirely resolved (you can rekindle things with Liara... but doing that doesn't actually *end* your ME2 relationship, meaning that you can end up cheating on both of them at the same time!). I'm just going to be interested to see what happens to players who romanced dead ME2 LIs (either via SM or through illness like Thane). Will the game treat that like a decision (i.e. decide to remain single and grieving or return to ME1 LI?), or will it "lock you in" to the dead LI, or will it pretend that you didn't even have an ME2 LI at all and that you remained faithful?

[Liec]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Actually, here's an odd question; if you romanced Liara in the first game, what does she say in LotSB if you romanced an ME2 LI who got killed in the suicide mission?

They talk about him as if he were still alive. Makes no sense. Then again character deaths have very little impact on the story as far as ME2 goes. 

[Jason_53]

"I do hope that the writers will allow people to "decide" in some form or fashion what they want to do about their LIs. They made a start with Liara in LotSB, but even then it's not entirely resolved (you can rekindle things with Liara... but doing that doesn't actually *end* your ME2 relationship, meaning that you can end up cheating on both of them at the same time!). I'm just going to be interested to see what happens to players who romanced dead ME2 LIs (either via SM or through illness like Thane). Will the game treat that like a decision (i.e. decide to remain single and grieving or return to ME1 LI?), or will it "lock you in" to the dead LI, or will it pretend that you didn't even have an ME2 LI at all and that you remained faithful?"

I think that if an ME2 LI dies, then Shepard is simply free.
For example, if you romanced Ashley and or Kaidan in ME1 but left them to die on Virmire (one of my imported savegames was like that), Shepard has no picture of them in his cabin an can freely pursue a new relationship.
I guess the same will apply for ME3, a free Shepard can pursue any relatioship he wants, or none at all and the people who dies in the previous games won´t be seen at all.

I remember that in one of my playthrougs Shepard had romenced Liara. I did LOTSB in middle game and catched up with her on the Normandy.
After that I cheated on her with Tali and nothing happened.
Every time I visited the SB base Liara just said: "Shepard I´m glad you came" and nothing else.

I look forward to see the consequences of that action in ME3

[Telemachus78]

There are a lot of Ash fans that have remained faithful through all of their playthroughs and they deserve a chance to rekindle their relationship.

As for the VS not helping you in ME2 how is that betrayal? I would be more disappointed if after all of what happened in ME1 and between them and Shep that they leave the Alliance after a 2 minute conversation with Shep. It was clear that they had a mission of their own and they cannot abandon that.

[Simocrates]

Ashley for life!

[Fault Girl]

I have one save, where I'm faithful to Kaidan and another where I'm with Thane/Garrus.

Yes he was a bit of a **** on Horizon but then I'd be annoyed if he wasn't, people do stupid things when they are angry. Considering he thought Shepherd was dead and shes now with ceberus, it is understandable.

Just wish I had the option "it wasnt my choice"

Just hoping the romance can conclude/continue in ME3, not looking forward to him seeing Shepherd with someone esle...

[Telemachus78]

@ZombieGeisha: The whole scene on Horizon had terrible dialouge choices. The "Its been too long" dialouge made me cringe.

[Tennessee88]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Im a Maleshep who saved Kaidan, so in my point of view, the VS should get the boot. After everyone risks life and limb in ME1, he/she just abandons Shepard to his/her fate with Cerberus and the Collectors? That's outright betrayal in my book. If the VS returns in Arrival/ME3, Im telling them to go screw themselves. I considered Kaidan my Shepard's best friend (sorry garrus) in ME1 (Garrus in ME2) and it was a real shock to see him act like an idiot just because of Cerberus. He ranted just like the council did in ME1, and I killed those fools for it.

Agreed, wish I could throw them out an airlock and Anderson against a bulkhead in front of a firing squad.

[UsagiVindaloo]

Again, the main idea of the OP is not whether faithful people should get to rekindle their relationship - obviously I think they should! The question is whether it would make for a moving story for the two to "break up", fall in love with other people, lose said other people, grow in the process, then find themselves at a point in their lives where they can try again together. I think done well, it could be very bittersweet and moving... done badly, it might come across like "rebounding with the ex" like someone phrased it.

[Jason_53]

I have remained faithful to Ashley in most of my playthroughs and I look forward to continue that relationship in ME3, also to have her as a squadmate (Remember yor promise Bioware).
I felt very sad after Horizon but then her emotive email gave me hope.
Besides, is great to see Shepard staring at her picture just before the SM as if he was saying: "I´m doing this for you babe, so we can be together forever when all this is over" or something like that
My dream is a Shepard-Williams wedding in the end of the game

[Jason_53]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Again, the main idea of the OP is not whether faithful people should get to rekindle their relationship - obviously I think they should! The question is whether it would make for a moving story for the two to "break up", fall in love with other people, lose said other people, grow in the process, then find themselves at a point in their lives where they can try again together. I think done well, it could be very bittersweet and moving... done badly, it might come across like "rebounding with the ex" like someone phrased it.

As I said bebore that is a matter of choice, very personal, and both sides of the equation are moving:

1.- It will be moving to chose to get over with the los of your ME2 LI and try to fix things with your old flame, heal each other wounds, and be together.

2.- Also it will be moving to decide to stay single because you decide no one else in the galaxy compares to your lost love and that gives you strengt to resist any tempation, and thay single and in grief.

The problem I have is that I´ve never lost any crewmember in my playtroughs so I expect a lot of bitter recriminations, slaps on the face or being forced to choose, like it already happened in ME1.

Damm it, why can´t we invent a "Time Effect" relay so we can jump directly to christmas and get the game?

This wait is killing me   

[Ice Cold J]

I love how Bioware throws the word "cheating" around.

Think about this: if your "love interest" really "loved you," wouldn't they trust you when you told them that The Collectors were the real threat, or put aside their petty needs to topple an intergalactic crime boss to help you SAVE the very freakin' galaxy that he's trying to corrupt?

LotSB kinda corrects this, but in no way enough that I wouldn't consider taking someone who has my back all the way.

The same thing with Ash. If you're going to be mad with me because you feel I "cheated" on you, I'm gonna be pissed because you didn't help me in my hour of need.

If the "romance choice" scene is handled properly, it will be heartwrenching and a very emotional (possibly THE most emotional) moment in all of Mass Effect. If it's just a "you left me for her? What's wrong with you? Last chance to 'make right' " kinda-moment, it's REALLY gonna ruin either Ash or Liara for me.