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[Pileyourbodies]

Wow Lith i thought all Mage supports had broken brains . Glad to hear people are still sane. The chantry is a lot more reasonable than the qun.
Tell the arishock you hate everything they are and he gets all pissy tell Ethinil about your dislike of the chantry and she basically says to each your own and will still tell you about your family.

[Dark Specie]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

Hey, the Tal-Vashoth have to survive that first year of exile somehow.   Maybe that's the real reason they cut 'em off?

Maybe. Must mean that the price for a Qunari horn (depending on it's weight, size and lenght) must be rather high then

[Gadarr]

Or what the mage did.  He know he risked taint, and instead of living on because he is afraid of death (such as 99% of all human mages you meet in the story) he accepts his death because he doesn't wish the risk of endangerous those around him.  All over the belief that he may be tainted.  It might be moronic decision, but it doesn't lack courage.  To call them spinless is inaccurate.

Actually, if I remember right, 'Katojan' didn't consider these things. He killed himself because this is the way of the Qun. Because it's the law. Not because he didn't wish to put anyone into danger - this might be the reason for the law to exist, but on an individual basis, it's not relevant at all. Nobody cares for his 'wishes', that's the whole point. Not even he himself. So it's not entirely wrong to call him spineless, as he simply accepts the Qun above everything else, thus dodging potentially difficult moral dilemmas on a personal level.

And it is exactly this which I find appalling. *g*

But then again, I might not remember correctly.

[_Aine_]

Their culture is fascinating to me because it is so different than my own.

And, what people are attracted to in video games is not necessarily even remotely what they would do or be interested in, in real life either. Sometimes, it is even the complete opposite.

[Lithuasil]

Pileyourbodies wrote...

Wow Lith i thought all Mage supports had broken brains . Glad to hear people are still sane. The chantry is a lot more reasonable than the qun.
Tell the arishock you hate everything they are and he gets all pissy tell Ethinil about your dislike of the chantry and she basically says to each your own and will still tell you about your family.

I'm actually more pro-circles then I am pro mage, I'm just against having the circles staffed by morons.

[JamesX]

Gadarr wrote...

Actually, if I remember right, 'Katojan' didn't consider these things. He killed himself because this is the way of the Qun.

If you did the quest right he would talk to you.  He choose death because he believed that is the right path.  

The Arrashad(sp) spell out the detail why it is this way, the Mage Certainly knows this basic information.  It is presented to the player/Hawke so you know what is the logic behind their actions.

That mage is not some mindless slave - which is what that whole scene is about.  He Choose to follow the Qun because he believe it to be correct.  Just as a person can choose to kill himself if he finds out he carries a virus that can kill millions.  Let say that person is wrong, he is only carrying the common cold.  But as long as the person believed it, and killed himself because he believed that his existence is a danger, it is a courageous action.

[Bondkakan]

Lithuasil wrote...

Bondkakan wrote...


I was just saying that the appeal of the The Chantry to me is on the same level as the Qun is to you.

With the decisive difference, that the chantry tolerates different levels of faith, where the Qunari have that whole "convert or kill" thing going on.

"The Chantry's goal is to spread the Chant of Light to all four corners of the world"

Tell me how that can be achieved without the "convert or kill" thing.

[Gentleman Moogle]

While I am in total opposition to the "Qun", I did like the concept of the Qunari as they were portrayed. A line from "The Last Samurai" springs to mind;

"From the moment they get up, they dedicate themselves utterly to whatever task is before them" (Paraphrasing).

I like the Qunari because they have that confident assurance in who and what they are. There's no room for second-guessing, no gray areas, just complete and total conviction in their beliefs and way of life. It is a world where respect must be earned, where loyalty is absolute, and where honor abounds.

There is a sort of purity in their way of life. That's why I like the Qunari. They're honest about who and what they are, whether you like it or not.

Granted, I'd still kill 'em all if it came right down to it, 'cause the Qun doesn't really leave much room for freedom in any form... But I respect them as enemies. They fight for what they believe, and they do it with the devotion borne of conviction. That makes them good foes.

[Foolsfolly]

You are your full potential in the Qun.

If you're smart, then you're building weapons and helping with agriculture and city design. If you're strong you're leading troops into battle. If you have no real skills you're a laborer.

There are no fat rich nobles having wonderful parties while people in the streets starve. The Qunari is the nation that must be.

That's what makes them interesting. And while I don't want to join them, I understand the desire for that option. The Templars are led by zealots and the Mages are corrupt. The nobles do nothing and the Viscount's a coward. You play the extremely capable Hawke and if you joined the Qunari you would be a high ranking officer, easily. And all this nonsense about Templars and Chants and Mage rights would go away.

Unless you are a mage. Then why would you want to join the Qun? They probably wouldn't accept you anyway since you could be tainted.

[Foolsfolly]

Bondkakan wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

Bondkakan wrote...


I was just saying that the appeal of the The Chantry to me is on the same level as the Qun is to you.

With the decisive difference, that the chantry tolerates different levels of faith, where the Qunari have that whole "convert or kill" thing going on.

"The Chantry's goal is to spread the Chant of Light to all four corners of the world"

Tell me how that can be achieved without the "convert or kill" thing.

They have great PR. They call it an Exhalted March, not a holy war where anyone deemed a 'heathan' is murdered. The Chantry exists because of strong arm tactics but they're weak and hide their intent behind words.

Qunari do not hide their actions or intent. They are correct and being correct does not mean they need to convince you that they are.

[Gadarr]

JamesX wrote...
That mage is not some mindless slave - which is what that whole scene is about.  He Choose to follow the Qun because he believe it to be correct.  Just as a person can choose to kill himself if he finds out he carries a virus that can kill millions.  Let say that person is wrong, he is only carrying the common cold.  But as long as the person believed it, and killed himself because he believed that his existence is a danger, it is a courageous action.

Indeed. However, he never stopped in order to think about whether this particular part of the Qun is actually right or wrong. He accepts what the Qun states, namely that mages in his situation need to die, no exceptions, individual circumstances or whatever else that might reasonably come into consideration elsewhere.

This, I believe, is cowardice in a very fundamental manner. It's actually the excuse for some of the worst crimes in history. 'Just following orders, abiding the law, ya know...'

[tanerb123]

arishok was probably the coolest character in the game plus he kicked my butt in 1-1 easily.

[Dangerfoot]

The only thing that really bothers me about the Qunari is that people in-game and out of it talk endlessly about Qunari nobility and honor. I'm sorry, but they are just as vile as (Dragon Age) humans. When I came to speak to the Arishok about the two convicts he'd let into his cult, he decided to ambush me with ranged forces while he looked on from his comfortable seat. Gee, doesn't sound like a badass, honorable leader to me.

They're a pack animals with some rules, none of which are honorable, just utilitarian.

[JW the Great]

"...and the worst are full of a terrible resolve." That's the Qunari right there. They deal in absolutes and are perfectly willing to murder anyone who disagrees with them.

The Chantry isn't much better; don't make that mistake.

[Dangerfoot]

JW the Great wrote...

"...and the worst are full of a terrible resolve." That's the Qunari right there. They deal in absolutes and are perfectly willing to murder anyone who disagrees with them.

The Chantry isn't much better; don't make that mistake.

They weren't that bad until all of the DA2 retcons.

[Foolsfolly]

Dangerfoot wrote...

The only thing that really bothers me about the Qunari is that people in-game and out of it talk endlessly about Qunari nobility and honor. I'm sorry, but they are just as vile as (Dragon Age) humans. When I came to speak to the Arishok about the two convicts he'd let into his cult, he decided to ambush me with ranged forces while he looked on from his comfortable seat. Gee, doesn't sound like a badass, honorable leader to me.

They're a pack animals with some rules, none of which are honorable, just utilitarian.

He withstood 3 years of aggression from the Chantry and the people of Kirkwall. His holy relic was stolen, dozens of his people have been murdered, people under his command had their bodies multilated to leave a trail so more Qunari would die.

And now, this cowardly filth dares to walk up to him and demand to arrest Qunari.

That was the last straw. You do not ask demands of the Qun.

[rei]

It's another generic "make an honor-prioritizing-race-similiar-to-the-Japanese" like Kilrathi.

[Foolsfolly]

Dangerfoot wrote...

JW the Great wrote...

"...and the worst are full of a terrible resolve." That's the Qunari right there. They deal in absolutes and are perfectly willing to murder anyone who disagrees with them.

The Chantry isn't much better; don't make that mistake.

They weren't that bad until all of the DA2 retcons.

What retcons? They were always bullies who jailed mages, led crusades against anyone who disbelieved in their vision of the cosmos, and their mission statement is to convert the whole world.

They're just as bad as the Qunari only without the cool.

[Lithuasil]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Dangerfoot wrote...

The only thing that really bothers me about the Qunari is that people in-game and out of it talk endlessly about Qunari nobility and honor. I'm sorry, but they are just as vile as (Dragon Age) humans. When I came to speak to the Arishok about the two convicts he'd let into his cult, he decided to ambush me with ranged forces while he looked on from his comfortable seat. Gee, doesn't sound like a badass, honorable leader to me.

They're a pack animals with some rules, none of which are honorable, just utilitarian.

He withstood 3 years of aggression from the Chantry and the people of Kirkwall. His holy relic was stolen, dozens of his people have been murdered, people under his command had their bodies multilated to leave a trail so more Qunari would die.

And now, this cowardly filth dares to walk up to him and demand to arrest Qunari.

That was the last straw. You do not ask demands of the Qun.

You know, accomodating a warparty from a country you're not exactly on good terms with, for three entire years, is rather nice of the Viscount? And decapitating him isn't exactly the most honorable way of repaying such kindness.

[Lithuasil]

Foolsfolly wrote...

What retcons? They were always bullies who jailed mages, led crusades against anyone who disbelieved in their vision of the cosmos, and their mission statement is to convert the whole world.

They're just as bad as the Qunari only without the cool.

With the minor difference in their extremes - the kind of minor difference where I'd turn myself in to a circle voluntarily as a mage, while I'd fight the qunari to my last breath, even as a mundane :|

[soignee]

shantisands wrote...

Their culture is fascinating to me because it is so different than my own.

And, what people are attracted to in video games is not necessarily even remotely what they would do or be interested in, in real life either. Sometimes, it is even the complete opposite.

^this. As fantasy races go, they're fairly unique.

[Heavensrun]

I disagree with their way of life intensely (I'm way too pro-individuality to ever endorse a society like theirs) but I respect their honesty, their sense of duty, and their sense of conviction. There are traits to respect there, I think. I never viewed the Arishok as an ally or friend, but I respected him as an enemy.

[Foolsfolly]

The Qunari sent delegates to peacefully talk, something the Qunari feel they do not owe anyone, and their way of repaying the Qunari for the peace talk? They murdered the delegates.

At every turn Qunari were being killed and plot against them were always active. The Qunari did not come for war, they did not come to convert. They were here for their relic.

[Zkyire]

Bondkakan wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...
they willfully give themselves into slavery to avoid having to find purpose themselves.  

And the followers of the chant find their own purpose, right? I mean, it's not like they follow the teachings of Andraste. That would be silly.

You can choose not to believe in the Maker and the Chantry wont hunt you down and execute you.

Unlike the Qunari. If you choose not to follow the Qun anymore, they make you their enemy.

Besides, the Chantry generally is an article of faith, the Qun governs every part of their lives.