224 réponses à ce sujet

[Noone of Importance]

i think the basic aspect is that perhaps DA is not about Wardens + people vs the Darkspawn but actually the conflict between the 7 Dragon Gods of old Tevinter Vs the Maker in that the golden child will probably champion mages free of the chantry, elves free of humanity etc, basically bring forth the freedom from the yoke of the chantry

[sagefic]

JensenBakura wrote...

- Even if you're not, the child is proof that when a sacrifice was needed (a sacrifice countless grey wardens have been prepared to carry out over the centuries) you chose to save your own hide AND risk a major future threat to Ferelden's stability.

...

All in all, I think the best option is just to pony up and die a hero...or if you're really too attached to your character, let Alistair or Loghrain take the fall. 

i totally agree.  perhaps its the old anglo-saxon epic feel of this whole story, but i just keep thinking, all these types of stories end badly - either for the hero or for the whole kingdom. call my char a glutton for punishment, but i think i'd rather go down a hero. i'm ponying up right now.  here's my reasoning:

- demon spawn - whether an old god or what have you, is CLEARLY threatening to the safety of the kingdom. i don't care overly much for the chantry, but it seems pretty clear that whatever you're battling is dangerous and threatening to the kingdom. if you let it continue, you are essentially sacrificing the kingdom's future. that...is...bad.

- sacrifice kingdom to stay alive - LAME

- sacrifice companion to stay alive - also lame

- i joined the wardens to end the blight. if duncan thought it was worth all his manipulating and killing jory, surely it's not worth risking that for possible future blights

- you're only going to live 30 years more, tops. oh, and you're going to plagued by problems and dreams all that time. dude, fact it, you're a walking corpse. might as well make it count.

- IF you give morrigan the baby you're going to spend those next 30 years wondering what the heck happened to morrigan and her spawn OR living with your head in the sand pretending there is no threat out there.

- if playing fem PC: just TOO sick to ask that of Alistair. how could you be genuinely happy with your man if you had THAT between you? and i don't just mean the night with the witch thing. i mean the demon spawn of his out there and having had to convince him to do that against his better judgement thing?

- and (for my char) as a mage, i was stuck in a tower all my life, had a death sentence for helping a blood mage. other opening stories end with their chars have equal marks on their heads. the simple fact i got to get out of that and do some good is more than enough.

as for the "who should rule"? thing, i think that almost any option (even loghain, a bit) makes some sense and i can see the reasoning behind it. but on this one, it seems there really is only 1 answer:

so i see no real option but doing the noble-self-sacrifice thing. i wish doing the noble thing didn't suck so much.

Modifié par sagequeen, 17 novembre 2009 - 05:44 .

[Endurium]

As I recall Flemeth said something about causing the blights, so I wouldn't be surprised if this demon child was her way (through her tool Morrigan) of ensuring another blight. It keeps the Grey Wardens around, and allows the cycle to continue.

[RavenholmeCP42]

sagequeen wrote...

sigh.

this is what i was fearing. i can't believe i know how badly this is going to end and yet i can't give up this game anyhow. CURSE YOU BIOWARE!

Gahhh....steeling self for...final...sacrifice..... (so gonna have me some Alistair before I go)

edit: is there anyone else out there who opted to sacrifice self rather than take morrigan's offer? i just find it some completely revolting that i just can't even imagine doing that. i'm a mom though, so i just cannot imagine sending some little baby (Demon or otherwise) out into the world without knowing how evil it will become or what morrigan will do with it.

I'm opting to sacrifice myself (Not quite at the final battle though), but giving Morrigan the power over an old god/archdaemon reborn just seems like sheer lunacy, never mind the fact that my character has been romancing Leliana from day one.

I'm sorry, but it seems like a situation that'd give rise to BG1's Sarevok x100 evil. Like Sarevok crossed with Hitler, or something.

[Cammy2709]

JensenBakura wrote...

Yeah...very true. I really thought that the mirror gift cut-scene was going to lead to a softening.

I was wrong.

That's not necessarily the entire case. True she showed no signs of softness at the end but those who did "romance" her I presumed also spoke to her regularly near the end. ( When she was near 100 affection.)
She shows alot more signs of actually being in love than at any other point. I had a conversation with her where she explained to me that she might actualy love me and was scared because of it before begging me to end it and let her leave the party. I refused saying I needed her. Now I don't know if it was class voice-work or Morrigan's actual feelings but she sounded near to tears when she hurled expletives at me. Telling me " we would both regret it in the end".

Despite the obvious facts that she was doing it all for her own personal gain, I like to think what you can say/do does affect her more than she shows. It gives her at least that tiny thread of sympathy.

Modifié par Cammy2709, 17 novembre 2009 - 05:48 .

[JensenBakura]

sagequeen wrote...

- sacrifice companion to stay alive - also lame

The only example of the above I see as not lame is:

Convince Alistair to be king alonside Anora.

Spare Loghrain - Alistair leaves your party, but he still stays to rule the country.

Have Loghrain kill the dragon to attone for his misdeeds.

@Cammy:  I see what your saying...but I still think that if she really loved you she'd be willing to keep you in the loop...my second playthough was a complete free spirit, with no attachment to any of Ferelden's politics.  I'd have happily left it all after the dragon was slain and headed off to help raise the child and learn more of the old gods (I was not pro-chantry).  Wasn't an option.  She refuses to have anything to do with you, even when you've gotten the dialogue you mentioned, and +100 love.

Modifié par JensenBakura, 17 novembre 2009 - 05:48 .

[Noone of Importance]

that is beautiful in a giving him redemption way knowing that loghain will live forever as a hero and savior and willingly giving up your place in history to do that shows immense mercy and humility

[RavenholmeCP42]

Also, isn't one of the lines of the Grey Warden's creed:



"In Death, Sacrifice"? Or some such

[RavenholmeCP42]

JensenBakura wrote...
Spare Loghrain - Alistair leaves your party, but he still stays to rule the country.

Can you do that? Can you make Alistair rule and take Loghain?

[Noone of Importance]

yes its a little convoluted but you can make loghain undergo the joining at which point Alistair loses it cause lets face it Loghain murdered Duncan, bur Loghain is a Champion Sword and Board specd warrior so hey its not terrible swapping one for tother

[Mike Ventrella]

_____o_O___ wrote...

DA 2 Help raise the god child.

No, DA 2:  you ARE the god child.  Now that could be interesting.

[JensenBakura]

RavenholmeCP42 wrote...

JensenBakura wrote...
Spare Loghrain - Alistair leaves your party, but he still stays to rule the country.

Can you do that? Can you make Alistair rule and take Loghain?

According to the official guide you can, but you have to have hardened him via the sister side-quest.

[RavenholmeCP42]

Noone of Importance wrote...

yes its a little convoluted but you can make loghain undergo the joining at which point Alistair loses it cause lets face it Loghain murdered Duncan, bur Loghain is a Champion Sword and Board specd warrior so hey its not terrible swapping one for tother

Yup, but Alistair becomes King? I smell a reload coming, if you can. Sacrificing Loghain instead of my character, and having Alistair rule... well, that's my perfect outcome. Anyone got a guide to do this?

Edit: Ah, dang, too far back. Ah well, sacrifice Gideon it is.

Modifié par RavenholmeCP42, 17 novembre 2009 - 05:54 .

[JensenBakura]

RavenholmeCP42 wrote...

Noone of Importance wrote...

yes its a little convoluted but you can make loghain undergo the joining at which point Alistair loses it cause lets face it Loghain murdered Duncan, bur Loghain is a Champion Sword and Board specd warrior so hey its not terrible swapping one for tother

Yup, but Alistair becomes King? I smell a reload coming, if you can. Sacrificing Loghain instead of my character, and having Alistair rule... well, that's my perfect outcome. Anyone got a guide to do this?

Edit: Ah, dang, too far back. Ah well, sacrifice Gideon it is.

Yes...see my above post.

You have to have hardened Alistair during the sister quest with the "everyone is out for themselves" line.

Then you have to convince him to marry Anora.  Then spare Loghrain.

[marshalleck]

Mike Ventrella wrote...

_____o_O___ wrote...

DA 2 Help raise the god child.

No, DA 2:  you ARE the god child.  Now that could be interesting.

I'm pretty sure I've played that before.

[RavenholmeCP42]

marshalleck wrote...

Mike Ventrella wrote...

_____o_O___ wrote...

DA 2 Help raise the god child.

No, DA 2:  you ARE the god child.  Now that could be interesting.

I'm pretty sure I've played that before.

Yeah, it's too much like the Baldur's Gate Saga, what with the PC being a Bhaalspawn. I think it's more likely to be we're chasing in it's wake... (Of destruction, of that I've no doubt)

[Elwoodw]

Look at it from Morrigan's point of view. An available dragon soul doesn't come along every day. Here is her chance to go her own way and put Flemeth behind her. I'm surprised that she wasn't more forceful or persuasive in trying to do the deal. Immortality should be worth more than just a once off. If she was rejected by the PC then such a person would have approached Alistair as a last resort fer shur.



As to the Grey Wardens...meh....we kill dragons all the time. We could do this one too if she gets frisky.



So, this play I'll put my friend on the throne and run off with Leliana.

[marshalleck]

What you call destruction, I call cleansing.



My mage is totally on board with the idea of bringing an Old God back into the world. I don't know why Morrigan won't trust me to help out with that little endeavor, but I suppose the Old Gods need me to buy the DLC so I can find out.

[Ariella]

First of all, we don't know that the Chantry was right about exactly what happened. However, we do know that this will destroy an Old God, of which there are only seven. So after this there are only 3 Old Gods left for the Darkspawn to infect. And after that, there's nothing.... All we know is what the Chantry has told us, what what happens went they're infected. We don't know anything of how the gods acted prior for an unbiased source. I can understand Morrigan, who isn't any form of believer, might want to save such a creature. It's the same impulse as she had to suggest mercy for Sten.

[RavenholmeCP42]

Ariella wrote...

First of all, we don't know that the Chantry was right about exactly what happened. However, we do know that this will destroy an Old God, of which there are only seven. So after this there are only 3 Old Gods left for the Darkspawn to infect. And after that, there's nothing.... All we know is what the Chantry has told us, what what happens went they're infected. We don't know anything of how the gods acted prior for an unbiased source. I can understand Morrigan, who isn't any form of believer, might want to save such a creature. It's the same impulse as she had to suggest mercy for Sten.

It's giving Morrigan the power over the child that I object to. I don't doubt that the Old God is a lovely creature, despite the fact that the Darkspawn want to cosy up to them and posses them with Archdemons, but the universe has managed just fine without the other four, so it can live without this one if it means delivering it to her manipulative, self-serving, power hungry grasp.

Hell, I'd even give it to Zevran over her, and he's a bloody assassin.

If Wynne was raising it, I'd have no problem, but no, Morrigan runs away as well.

[sagefic]

marshalleck wrote...

What you call destruction, I call cleansing.

My mage is totally on board with the idea of bringing an Old God back into the world. I don't know why Morrigan won't trust me to help out with that little endeavor, but I suppose the Old Gods need me to buy the DLC so I can find out.

LOL!

omg, if only that NPC in camp had said "DLC and i'll let you keep alistair without the bargain with the witch" i'd be THERE! (with my dog barkspawn)

so really, there's no clear indication of how bad this little dragon baby is going to be. other than that the whole thing is kinky in a major way.

question: did you find your char was the major motivating factor here, or did you do the same across multiple plays?  i feel like my human noble would totally go for queen and sacrifice herself to protect al and the kingdom. i feel like my mage would more likely do anything to keep the guy and be like 'meh, demons? i've seen PLENTY of those - killed 'em too. what the hey?"

[sagefic]

RavenholmeCP42 wrote...

Ariella wrote...

First of all, we don't know that the Chantry was right about exactly what happened. However, we do know that this will destroy an Old God, of which there are only seven. So after this there are only 3 Old Gods left for the Darkspawn to infect. And after that, there's nothing.... All we know is what the Chantry has told us, what what happens went they're infected. We don't know anything of how the gods acted prior for an unbiased source. I can understand Morrigan, who isn't any form of believer, might want to save such a creature. It's the same impulse as she had to suggest mercy for Sten.

It's giving Morrigan the power over the child that I object to. I don't doubt that the Old God is a lovely creature, despite the fact that the Darkspawn want to cosy up to them and posses them with Archdemons, but the universe has managed just fine without the other four, so it can live without this one if it means delivering it to her manipulative, self-serving, power hungry grasp.

Hell, I'd even give it to Zevran over her, and he's a bloody assassin.

If Wynne was raising it, I'd have no problem, but no, Morrigan runs away as well.

if only we could set up some sort of grey-warden daycare for this demon-baby, i'd be more okay with it. it takes a village....

Modifié par sagequeen, 17 novembre 2009 - 06:17 .

[MBirkhofer]

marshalleck wrote...

What you call destruction, I call cleansing.

My mage is totally on board with the idea of bringing an Old God back into the world. I don't know why Morrigan won't trust me to help out with that little endeavor, but I suppose the Old Gods need me to buy the DLC so I can find out.

Freeing this old power from the corruption is a fairly noble action, if you believe Morrigan.
Morrigan's character has alot of trust issues.  So its understandable, that she wouldn't trust you.

Should be noted however, every dragon in game, even noncorrupted is pretty evil.   Are the dragons mentioned reappearing in the codex the same one?  They are stated to have been seen near the Frostback mountains, so those all could have just been the false Andraste.   The "old gods" appear to be even higher level of dragons then the high dragons, much in the same way warcraft lore has dragons, and the aspects which head them.

[MBirkhofer]

Ariella wrote...

First of all, we don't know that the Chantry was right about exactly what happened. However, we do know that this will destroy an Old God, of which there are only seven. So after this there are only 3 Old Gods left for the Darkspawn to infect. And after that, there's nothing.... All we know is what the Chantry has told us, what what happens went they're infected. We don't know anything of how the gods acted prior for an unbiased source. I can understand Morrigan, who isn't any form of believer, might want to save such a creature. It's the same impulse as she had to suggest mercy for Sten.

Maybe the Darkspawn always existed.  And it was the Old gods unchained, and uncorrupted that were gaurding against them.
But when whatever sealed the Old gods underground, be it the maker or the trickster, the darkspawn were left unchecked. and they found a way to corrupt the ones that were protecting the world from them.

Perhaps this free old god will be the only way to really stop the darkspawn.

Modifié par MBirkhofer, 17 novembre 2009 - 06:24 .