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Morrigan's "Offer" - how bad will this be?


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#101
Eshaye

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ZGold wrote...

If you're a female in a relationship with Alistair...she's a SHAPESHIFTER. Your character doesn't get the option to pay Alistair a visit that night unless you go to persuade him to sleep with Morrigan, so why wouldn't she just appear as your character and trick him? Yes, I know the game only gives you the spider/bear/swarm options, but she blatantly turns into a dog or wolf in the cutscene where you say no, so clearly she has other forms she's been keeping quiet.



You can actually ask Morrigan is she would/could change into human form. She says that she uses her animal shapes to learn from them and claims that another human shape would do nothing for her. But she doesn't deny that she can't if she wanted to.. So I guess that would be feasible, in a novel that would make for a delicious turn but in this game where you're supposed to make choices it wouldn't work so well.

Modifié par Eshaye, 18 novembre 2009 - 12:48 .


#102
Ninjaphrog

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hmmmmmmmmm....



*SPOILER WARNING, Don't read if you dont wanna know what is said during Morrigan's special quest*



Let an already passively evil witch make love to an ugly blonde morron with a sucky humor to give birth to a passively evil demon child with a badass evil altered humor....or sacrifice myself and find out if the Maker really is with good with Lego's as the Chantry lets on...



Now when I sat with this choice I had told Alistair to go F himself during the landsmeet just cause I find him that damn annoying...so Morrigan's secondary option is...Loghain...*Hurls in thigh thick streams*...*cough*...whatever floats your sinking boat I guess...



Anyway...I decided to sacrifice myself for 2 reasons....



1) Let loose a child with a tainted old god for a soul who's parents are a delusioned old maniac with an authority issue, and a mother who's incompetent, selfish, and a swooping nuisance...OVER MY DEAD DECOMPOSING CORPSE!



2) Morrigan could be posessed by Flemeth, as seems to be her way of looking young(HA! IN YOUR FACE EXPENSIVE POINTLESS YOUTH CREME COMPANIES!)....And since I really don't like Flemeth, I'd rather let Morrigan be possessed with me far far away....call me a coward...I suggested going back to Ostagar during the Warden test....lol



I don't know what will happen if you choose to let Morrigan breed...I advice you not to...but if you're daredevilish enough to try it...don't let me know....

#103
Jacks-Up

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This is a bad assumption though, because your character can literally be ANYTHING. You can be super evil, willing to burn down the world for fun. You don't exactly have any responsibilities after killing the archdemon in the Morrigan romance case. Maybe you'd help her because you want to cause havoc? The story can't project on your character this way, and I know Bioware holds this tenet dear - Mr Gaider has said as much many times.


This I agree with I think if you're Evil it should work out with Morrigan and if you're good it should End in Tragedy

Same for Leliana if you're good it works out is you're Evil it doesn't.

#104
screwoffreg

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 Whatever happens it is clear Morrigan is one of the central characters of the game, if not the series itself.  Even if you do not want follow her though, it seems clear that when word got out of her having a "god child", every major government, religion, and cult in the world would be after her.  She is literally a massive target and for someone supposedly so pragmatic she just put a sign on that says "capture/kill/manipulate me" .  I wouldn't be surprised if you have so save her ass (again) or are otherwise forced to search for her.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 18 novembre 2009 - 12:55 .


#105
gotthammer

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screwoffreg wrote...

   I wouldn't be surprised if you have so save her ass (again) or are otherwise forced to search for her.


I do certainly HOPE that that will be the case for any expansions/sequels.
IMHO, the game ended in a rather epic way.  It would be nice if that 'feel' would be expanded upon later by having your character go on a quest that, hopefully, will explore Thedas more.
In this case, hunting/pursuing Morrigan (regardless of your character's motive)

#106
Scarekrow_au

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One thing i keep reading is people worried about siring a 'demon spawn' or a 'demon child'. If you read carefully you can piece together that the child wont be evil by nature. Morrigan says that the child will not be a darkspawn and the taint wont effect it (except for drawing the archdemon). Also the Archdemon is 'An old god tainted by the darkspawn'. What it sound like is Morrigan is trying to give brith to an old god who is not controlled by the taint but instead controls it thus removing all 'evil' from it or putting it in control of its taint (similar to a Grey Warden sencing them). Even though i didnt like Morrigan that much, she still seemed like 'For the greater good' kind of person, ie. sacrifice thousands to save millions kind of person. I think one of her reasons is to destroy the Chantry (ruling over mages, constantly hunting mages casue they cant control them, obviously hates the idea of the Maker plus she mentions the child will be a 'symbol of freedom'). I guess 'evil' is a matter of perspective for instance one might see the Chantry destroyed as evil, though another ie. me would be dancing on its grave (i was a good guy and i defiled the ashes).



I do think Morrigan will try to pull a Flemeth on the girl (i think the child will be a girl, usually character weilding god like power are female, also flemeth could seem to choose the gender of the child who says Morrigan cant) but i think itll back fire. Trying to possess a god who happens to be the child of a Grey Warden doesnt sound simple to me. Maybe the opening for DA 2 will be Morrigan failing to possess the child and getting killed.

#107
Driveninhifi

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Man, I hope that they don't go the way of Morrigan possessing the child. That's too obvious, too easy. Using the child as bait for Flemeth I can see. Working on behalf of some organization that worships Urthemiel, sure.



But possessing the kid? The most compelling part of her character is when she shows she's NOT Flemeth. Having her do that would ruin her development.



She's got a greater role to play, and I think the PC does as well.

#108
Scarekrow_au

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Alright, i take back everything i said, i turned on my ipod and the first song it played was Awaken heres the lyrics



'I am the conqueror of demons,

Im the father of your death

I control an ancient evil

i control his every breath'



>> my mavhines scare me sometimes XD


#109
Mr.Skar

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I played a good character first, human noble rogue, and I couldn't help but take Morrigan's offer. Every great hero has a flaw right? It just made my character that much more interesting and believable. His desire to live made him more real. Also, I get the feeling that this is gonna be the more recognized ending, since the possibilities sequel wise are pretty rich.

#110
Agni108

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I presented this opinion in another post regarding Morrigan, but will summarize the main points here.

I think almost everyone is completely misreading Morrigan. Bioware has pulled the wool over our eyes, and has done so brilliantly. You have to understand what Morrigan represents, symbolically. She is perhaps the deepest and most enigmatic of all the characters in the game--and I suspect she will play a role, at least historically, in the expansion. There are several important points to consider.

1. First, Morrigan is a child of Nature. She has been raised by Flemeth, the "Witch of the Wild", who is Bioware's dark version of "Mother Nature". Nature does not know "good" or "evil". It only knows maximum efficiency. Physics thus tells us that all of Nature operates according to the law of least action = maximum efficiency. Nature is not all flowers and butterflies. It can also be heartless and cruel. But it always operates according to the law of maximum efficiency.

2. As a child of Nature, who was raised in the Wilds, far away from human habitation, Morrigan is alien to the false illusions of human society, with its flimsy notions of "good" and "evil". Morrigan is not "evil", nor is she "good". She transcends "good" and "evil". Remember, that (according to the Bible) Adam and Eve "fell" from grace because they tasted of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Morrigan is a characteristic Nietszchean character (uber mensch), who transcends petty human social concerns, as well as human notions of good and evil. Hence, to many she seems cold and heartless. But at no point does she appear "evil".

There is no support for the notion that Morrigan is some power hungry maniac--she has no desire to control other people and abhores all forms of societal control.. She does not revel in killing for killing's sake. Nor is she interested in "power" for self-aggrandizment. She is only interested in accomplishing the goal of saving the world, as quickly and practially as possible. Any attempt by the PC to "help" others, by putting putting the party at risk, or delaying the primary goal, is thus frowned upon by her. The fate of the world hangs in the balance, and that is her focus. She sees the forest, and does not want to be distracted by individual trees. In her mind, accumulating power is necessary to accomplish the goal--so yes, she desires for the party to accumulate power--at all costs.

3. Flemeth also transcends good and evil. Remember that Flemeth "protected" the treaties for centuries, encouraged the party to gather the allies to fight the Blight, and offered Morrigan to help in the fight. Flemeth is clearly against the Blight. She hates the "dark taint" that it brings to the world. And at no point does she threaten the PC, except when she herself is attacked. She may have taken on the "taint" in order to conquer it. The Gray Wardens have done the same thing.

4. Flemeth had two Grimoires. The first, found in the Circle, outlined her own history, which involved attaining semi-immortality by possessing the bodies of her daughters. While this may seem repugnant, it may have had a deeper purpose--revealed in the second Grimoire, found at her house, after Flemeth was slain. After Morrigan reads the second Grimoire, she learns of the "ritual" which is capable of binding the soul of an Old God to the body of her child. Ostensibly, Flemeth discovered this ritual through her research over the centuries, and that research was probably the reason she needed to continue her studies over the long course of time. It is only after Morrigan reads Flemeth's second Grimoire that she fully understands what Flemeth was up to, and apparently, she believes she must carry on her work--not for personal power, but in order to redeem the Old Gods, and free them from the taint.

5. The Old Gods, represent the Gods of Nature, (perhaps originally in dragon form), who have been corrupted by the "taint" and thus transformed into Archdemons. I believe that Flemeth sought, through her research, some way to redeem the Old Gods, and thus "redeem" all of Nature. When Morrigan fully understood what Flemeth was trying to accomplish, she changed her view, and decided that she had to fulfill her Mother's plan. If she did not do this, the world was ultimately doomed in the long run. I believe that the goal of both Flemeth and Morrigan was thus to finally and completely remove the taint from the land, and restore the Balance in Nature. They have a bigger picture of things than ordinary humanity. They are not only concerned with this particular Blight--but with removing the possibility of a Blight for all times to come.

6. This is the perfect set up for an expansion, which will could potentially revolve around the God Child of Morrigan, who would be faced with the task of "redeeming" and "awakening" the rest of the Old Gods, and removing the taint once and for all. But the God Child will also be faced with his/her dual history....as an Old God and as an Archdemon...now in human form. Will the God Child succumb to the taint, and thus become a new Archdemon in human form, or will he/she undergo final salvation and become the "God of Beauty" in human form? Stay tuned...this story is not over.

The story is very deep my friends...and in my opinion Bioware has created a masterpiece, where things are not as they appear on the surface. Morrigan, whom everyone thinks is "evil", may turn out to be the real "hero" of the story, who was willing to "sacrifice" her only begotten child for the salvation of the world. Does that ring a bell?

In the case where Morrigan is in "love" with the PC, she must also sacrifice her only personal love, for the sake of saving the world. In other words, Morrigan is not "selfish", rather she is "selfless". Like Nature Herself, she is both beautiful and potentially cruel in her one-pointed focus on maximum efficiency. What an awesome character.

The question as to why she renounces her relationship with the PC remains somewhat of a mystery. It is clearly not easy for her. But the feeling I got is that she did so for the sake of her and her child's higher purpose, which must be fostered in deep secrecy. By the end of the game the PC has become the most famous person in all the land, and if Morrigan were to continue to hang out with you, or allow you to find her, then there would be no secrecy--and the plan to raise the God Child in the midst of Nature, far from human habitation, would be thwarted.

Modifié par Agni108, 18 novembre 2009 - 03:39 .


#111
Eshaye

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Bravo, beautiful explained and put. I adore your post Agni thank you. ^_^

#112
Jacks-Up

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Eshaye wrote...

Bravo, beautiful explained and put. I adore your post Agni thank you. ^_^


You didn't actually read all that did you?

#113
TuringPoint

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I don't know what an Old God is. Morrigan seems to know that it's not evil, that it is worth preserving. That's enough for me. She makes a very convincing argument, and as cagey as it is, it sounds like a good thing for everyone. Morrigan and Flemeth don't want the blight taking over, they don't even seem to particularly want power as much as survival.



Now, what if the Darkspawn seek out her Old God son/daughter to corrupt it? What then? Oh noes...

#114
egervari

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sagequeen wrote...

Okay, so I'm contemplating Morrigan's "offer" - I haven't gotten there (so please no major spoilers) but I'm contemplating how bad it will be to take it.

On the one hand, impregnating witch with demon child in order to save a life = good, right?

On the other hand, if the CG Beowulf and the Morte d'Arthur have taught us anything, it's that demon spawn of witches ALWAYS come back to haunt you in about 25 years.

Of course, I'm only living for 30, but that seems awfully selfish to unleash THAT on the world.

This is total speculation, but speculate with me - what exactly IS she taking off with her? Is this just a sort of queasy proposition, or the start of something really, really bad (like, epic "swooping")?

 


I haven't read the 5 pages of posts, so bare with me.

If she's telling the truth, this would be a child that does not have the taint, so it wouldn't be ruling darkspawn. However, there's a lot of debate as to who the old gods were in the first place and how they came to be. I think it's safe to say that "we" as the player and as the characters inside of the game don't know the truth. It is possible that this child could just be an archdemon in human form. It can also be possible that the god is human and challenges the chantry and andreste. Or maybe Morrigan just wants to use power for her own ends. Who knows.

I myself did not take her up on the offer, however I did do a save just before to see what would happen if I did. I think accepting the offer gives the player better story-related content. As for lasting effects? Well, it definitely changes the ending I would imagine... although I didn't get that far to test it out.

The game does give some indications as to how your choices, even the little insignificant ones, affected the world afterwards. Perhaps this choice's consequences will be revealed as well?

#115
Brockololly

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Fantastic post Agni! I just finished the game and my head is spinning with questions but everything you said makes a bunch of sense. Although I'm not sure I would like playing as another god child again (Bhaalspawn anyone?). I just hope the inevitable DA2 lets you pick up as your PC and we get some more Morrigan answers!

#116
Volourn

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"She favours slaughtering the mages"



It should be pointed out that those mages would happily capture her, torture her, and then either turn her into a tranquil or flat out murder her. So, yeah, of course she hates them.

#117
Driveninhifi

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I like Agni's idea - though it doesn't explain why she insists on going alone instead of taking her extremely powerful lover with her to defend her while she is pregnant. Makes me think the writers wanted a bittersweet ending.



There are references to Cults of Urthemiel popping up (which is the baby's soul, I think), so that also lends credence to your idea - she and her mother could be associated with them. Also helps explain the whole dragon shapeshifting thing.



Also I see no reason why that plotline could not end with her and the PC working together. It actually works really well for that reason: you can have both. You can fight against her and stop the resurrection of the old gods if you believe the Chantry/hate her. Or you could be her lover/ally/whatever and bring back the old gods.



I do hope you don't play as the child though, since that's ground that was already covered in Baldur's Gate.

#118
Valfreyja

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Eshaye wrote...

ZGold wrote...

If you're a female in a relationship with Alistair...she's a SHAPESHIFTER. Your character doesn't get the option to pay Alistair a visit that night unless you go to persuade him to sleep with Morrigan, so why wouldn't she just appear as your character and trick him? Yes, I know the game only gives you the spider/bear/swarm options, but she blatantly turns into a dog or wolf in the cutscene where you say no, so clearly she has other forms she's been keeping quiet.



You can actually ask Morrigan is she would/could change into human form. She says that she uses her animal shapes to learn from them and claims that another human shape would do nothing for her. But she doesn't deny that she can't if she wanted to.. So I guess that would be feasible, in a novel that would make for a delicious turn but in this game where you're supposed to make choices it wouldn't work so well.

Actually what she said was that she couldn't take on another human form because she already was a human(that of course doesn't deny the possibility of her taking on the shape of an elf or dwarf).

#119
Leonia

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I *just* read all five pages here, this decision has been on my mind for the last two days or so since killing the Archdemon with my first character (Female Dalish rogue). Agni is spot on, I thought similar about Morrigan's character.



Just wanted to emphasise why the powerful main character is not allowed to go with Morrigan: the powerful main character has turned into a major hero that all of Ferelden, perhaps all of Thedas, is aware of. Morrigan can't risk that sort of attention. I think she is genuinely upset that she must part ways with the PC, regardless of the PC's gender or romance choices.



In any event, who else can't wait for the next DLC or expansion?! I am so ready for more, whether it's the story of Morrigan, the gold-child, or any of the other party members. I am so attached to these characters through my PC that rerolling a fresh new character wouldn't be half as much fun in a future expansion.



I think the idea of pursuing Morrigan, whether for good or ill, would make a lot of sense in the next installment, perhaps that initial quest leads to more answers, or maybe it will just bring up more questions about the Old Gods, nature, darkspawn, the Maker, and everything else.

#120
Valfreyja

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With my human female noble who's romancing Alistair, she'll most definitely ask him to do the ritual with Morrigan. Why? She'd rather have him do something that might disturb and hurt her once if it saves both of them. Simply because she can deal with any pain from that a lot easier than having to mourn a dead lover. Not to mention she can't get over being dead anytime soon(and she believes that the chantry preaches a load of bull).

#121
screwoffreg

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 I can't wait for some expansions/closure to the story we began in this game.  I know we have to be patient...but I hope we are playing a sequel before the next election so I can drown out the political nonsense...

#122
Yakko77

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If Morrigan didn't want to run off with the kid then I'd consider it but she is clearly hiding her true motives.

#123
Antikristine

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Has anybody explored whether it is possible to avoid Morrigan's offer? If you don't give her the book from the mage's tower, and don't do her quest? In that case, she wouldn't know the ritual, right?

#124
Jacks-Up

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Antikristine wrote...

Has anybody explored whether it is possible to avoid Morrigan's offer? If you don't give her the book from the mage's tower, and don't do her quest? In that case, she wouldn't know the ritual, right?


No her mother taught it to her. You have 2 options no matter what you do.

Modifié par Jacks-Up, 18 novembre 2009 - 09:46 .


#125
Jacks-Up

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screwoffreg wrote...

 I can't wait for some expansions/closure to the story we began in this game.  I know we have to be patient...but I hope we are playing a sequel before the next election so I can drown out the political nonsense...



Regardless I got a feeling even if they do continue this characters story "Which is a big IF"  Morrigan's PC days are over.