224 réponses à ce sujet

[Antikristine]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Antikristine wrote...

Has anybody explored whether it is possible to avoid Morrigan's offer? If you don't give her the book from the mage's tower, and don't do her quest? In that case, she wouldn't know the ritual, right?

No her mother taught it to her. You have 2 options no matter what you do.

Oh I see... Well, at least for me that supports the idea that her offer is part of a bigger and more sinister plan...

[AtreiyaN7]

Yes, I think Agni's post was quite insightful. I don't know why everyone calls her evil; I never saw her like that. Sneaky, yes, evil...not so much. She might not be concerned about people and their (to her) petty problems, but she did tag along to help save the world & all. Also, everyone keeps calling the child a demonspawn, etc. but based on what she said that doesn't sound accurate. She intends to bring back an Old God, its spirit cleansed of the taint. Doesn't sound like a bad thing (entirely) - of course, who knows what the ultimate plan is - could be bad, could be good. I just hope we get to find out.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 18 novembre 2009 - 10:10 .

[Antikristine]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Yes, I think Agni's post was quite insightful. I don't know why everyone calls her evil; I never saw her like that. Sneaky, yes, evil...not so much. She might not be concerned about people and their (to her) petty problems, but she did tag along to help saved the world & all. Also, everyone keeps calling the child a demonspawn, etc. but based on what she said that doesn't sound accurate. She intends to bring back an Old God, its spirit cleansed of the taint. Doesn't sound like a bad thing (entirely) - of course, who knows what the ultimate plan is - could be bad, could be good. I just hope we get to find out.

I completely agree that evil is not really the right word. Morrigan is a deeper character than fitting that narrow description. I think she has some agenda of her own, and I can't help but think that there's a bond between her and Flemeth. And I'm not able to think that what she actually wants to do is for the benefit for the world. Maybe she believes so, but I doubt it.

[ZGold]

Agni raises some good points; Morrigan isn't 'evil' or 'good' per se, but she IS driven. If she DOES have some deeper/hidden agenda for which the child is essential (whatever that agenda might be) then it makes even LESS sense that she goes off so quietly when you turn her offer down.

Of course, if, like Flemeth, she's got the potential of still being around (or having a daughter of her own) by the time the next Blight occurs, then it could be that Orlais (where the epilogue says she was seen at court iirc) is going to be where that Blight takes place, and she's setting herself up to 'try again'.

Another thing to think about: if you were raised by your mother, with little to no interaction with the world outside the wilds (maybe some contact with the Chasind and Templars hunting for Flemeth) beyond your mother's occasional 'company', would you have a broad understanding of key topics in the world, like the Chantry's stated aims and the Templar's purpose guarding against abominations, or would you be rather biased based on your mother's opinions and teachings?

I'm sure I remember Morrigan saying something about Flemeth having sent her with the Grey Wardens specifically so she could have this child with the Old God's soul, and if you don't do her personal quests and she still knows the ritual, then maybe it's just me, but I start to smell a set-up. Even if you do the personal quests and 'kill' Flemeth to get the other grimoire, Morrigan gives the impression that she doesn't think Flemeth is really dead, and for all Morrigan seems to believe the grimoire that claims Flemeth possesses her daughters to extend her life, I'm actually inclined to doubt the truth of those claims given Flemeth's response when you call her on it.

Modifié par ZGold, 18 novembre 2009 - 10:41 .

[OneBadAssMother]

This lays room for the plot in Dragon Age 2...



But looks like we have to wait TWO YEARS... to find out what our baby archdemon is gonna do. BTW, have you guys noticed in the codex that there have been 4 blights so far, in DA:O it's the 5th. So it's likely the sequels would be dealing with the 6th and 7th blights. Perhaps your baby 'god' would be a good dragon to aid you against the rest?



The Archdemon you slain in DA:O was the dragon of beauty if I recall after all.

[ZGold]

Yup, I would think there are definitely more Blights to come - the big question is what happens after the last archdemon (7/7) rises and is defeated? An end to the Blights at long last (unlikely imo), or is the Chantry going to have to do some quick thinking to make the situation and their teachings fit?



On the other hand, we've already defeated one Blight, and I can't see sequels going over what would pretty much be familiar ground, not unless they move you to, e.g. Orlais, or wherever the Qunari come from and give you other issues to overcome at the same time. Maybe the Qunari will even try and invade again in the wake of the Blight, who knows...

[OneBadAssMother]

I doubt we'll be in Ferelden in the sequels. Speaking of the Qunari actually, Sten at the epilogue did mention something about invasion... O.O



Sten's only reason for being in Ferelden was that his superiors asked "What is the blight?" Hmmm, meh guesswork

[CastorKrieg]

Sorry, in the land of cRPGs it will only end one way - Morrigan wants more power, and baby demon will give it to her. Will probably control next Blight as well. I think the baby will be more powerful than the next Archdemon, as Morrigan said she wants "pure essence of a God". Pure essence >>> tainted essence of the Archdemon.



She was last seen in the Frozen Mountains, Orlais here we come!

[Agni108]

I am hoping that Bioware will NOT have us play as the God Child of Morrigan in the expansion. However, that seems to have been their modus operandi in the BG series, and Dragon Age is billed as the spiritual successor to that game, so we have to wait and see.



But I seriously doubt that we will be able to continue the campaign by importing our current character. Gray Wardens die off after 30 years, and the story of the current campaign will probably be the stuff of legend in the expansion.



Regarding the aftermath of the current campaign, I also suspect that many of the loose ends will be tied up in subsequent DLC. The game does not really end with the finale, unless your character opted to go the sacrifice route. You still have a saved game at the camp, from which you can do additional DLC.



So, in principal, there could be additional content regarding the fate of Morrigan and her child, etc. If Bioware doesnt provide it, then perhaps the modders will.



At any rate, given the variety of different endings in the current campaign, it is difficult for me to see how the expansion could be a direct extension of the current campgain. I suspect, like others, that it will take place in Orlais with a new cast of characters, but it is not clear to me what it will involve.

[sandokas]

Well, i wish people stoped acting as they knew everything.



My point is, there's an evil side on thinking that you know everything and try to manipulate people's life accordingly to your prevision of the future. People have free will, either they are witches of the wild, have babbled in blood magic or anything. There is no way to know what the child will become, but opting to kill someone because you are afraid that the child might turn bad is acting "god like" and having little faith on human nature and free will. Look at Naruto, he has a demon inside and he turned out pretty much as the village saviour. Thinking that you can act godly like is the sin of the Jedi Council it self, and it served them good since they ended up fighting for the soon to be Empire.



I would be more worried that you left the kid to be educated by Morrigan alone, than the fact that he has a demon inside per si.

[sandokas]

I'm sure I remember Morrigan saying something about Flemeth having sent her with the Grey Wardens specifically so she could have this child with the Old God's soul, and if you don't do her personal quests and she still knows the ritual, then maybe it's just me, but I start to smell a set-up. Even if you do the personal quests and 'kill' Flemeth to get the other grimoire, Morrigan gives the impression that she doesn't think Flemeth is really dead, and for all Morrigan seems to believe the grimoire that claims Flemeth possesses her daughters to extend her life, I'm actually inclined to doubt the truth of those claims given Flemeth's response when you call her on it.

Well, how would you explain that Flemeth had several witches of the wild with her, only one at a time, and they are never heard off outside her scope. Is this something like Sith Master/Apprentice thing, they try to kill the Master and he gets a new one? She cannot make one apprentice kill the other to get the stronger since she raises them from childhood.

[ZGold]

uhuh, and what life expectancy do you think an apostate mage claiming to be the daughter of THE witch of the wilds would have, once they were outside of the wilds (Flemeth's 'territory')? I reckon maybe a touch longer than that of a snowball in hell.

[OrionUnas]

6 pages, and no search avliable for it. Has anyone mentioned that, during the conversation, she says that it is a way out for all the gray wardens, forever? Or did I just interput her wrong when she said this. Listen to the diologue she says. And after that night, when you talk to her, about what happened, she becomes, what we call in the writing world, a devoluping character. Someone who has gone through change during the story, rather then a static character... if you were to play a female lead, or refuse her offer, she will remain a static character, which is one who never changes through out the plot.

Keep in mind, she does say she doesn't make friends easily, and the voice actress who pulls this off really well, and had me choked up, said that she will always be greatful of this friendship, although she doesn't think she deserves it. I wanted to say, "don't worry Morrigan, you deserve all the friendship, and love I can offer," ... but she cut me off

(edit)
I would, however, like to see what happens when I don't kill Flemith.  And, the end, I'm sure might say something different, but then BioWare has been good at writting nothing at all, and letting us ponder on whats going on in anticipation for the sequal, or DLC, that won't be coming out for a good year or more.

Modifié par OrionUnas, 18 novembre 2009 - 01:10 .

[Vilegrim]

MBirkhofer wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

What you call destruction, I call cleansing.

My mage is totally on board with the idea of bringing an Old God back into the world. I don't know why Morrigan won't trust me to help out with that little endeavor, but I suppose the Old Gods need me to buy the DLC so I can find out.

Freeing this old power from the corruption is a fairly noble action, if you believe Morrigan.
Morrigan's character has alot of trust issues.  So its understandable, that she wouldn't trust you.

Should be noted however, every dragon in game, even noncorrupted is pretty evil.   Are the dragons mentioned reappearing in the codex the same one?  They are stated to have been seen near the Frostback mountains, so those all could have just been the false Andraste.   The "old gods" appear to be even higher level of dragons then the high dragons, much in the same way warcraft lore has dragons, and the aspects which head them.

it's made clear in the Dragon Cults codex entry that high dragons and old gods are not the same thing,  my take is that old gods where virtue spirits (ala Wynn) that had possesed high dragons.  At least some of them where, some may have been abominations from the start.

[ZGold]

OrionUnas wrote...

6 pages, and no search avliable for it. Has anyone mentioned that, during the conversation, she says that it is a way out for all the gray wardens, forever? Or did I just interput her wrong when she said this. Listen to the diologue she says. And after that night, when you talk to her, about what happened, she becomes, what we call in the writing world, a devoluping character. Someone who has gone through change during the story, rather then a static character... if you were to play a female lead, or refuse her offer, she will remain a static character, which is one who never changes through out the plot.

Keep in mind, she does say she doesn't make friends easily, and the voice actress who pulls this off really well, and had me choked up, said that she will always be greatful of this friendship, although she doesn't think she deserves it. I wanted to say, "don't worry Morrigan, you deserve all the friendship, and love I can offer," ... but she cut me off

(edit)
I would, however, like to see what happens when I don't kill Flemith.  And, the end, I'm sure might say something different, but then BioWare has been good at writting nothing at all, and letting us ponder on whats going on in anticipation for the sequal, or DLC, that won't be coming out for a good year or more.

I don't think anyone has mentioned the 'way out for all the grey wardens' piece... then again, I'm not sure that she's saying this specific instance is the way out for all the grey wardens, or just that the ritual offers a way out for each (remaining) Blight.  Given that she explains the process (roughly) as 'she gets pregnant with a tainted child (because of the Grey Warden taint) > a Grey Warden kills the Archdemon (she doesn't specify that it has to be the one who impregnated her) > the Archdemon, instead of being drawn to the its killer's taint is (for some reason that hasn't been explained) drawn to the taint of the child/foetus > instead of the child dying, its taint and the archdemon's taint somehow cancel each other out, leaving the child with the untainted soul of an Old God', I suspect you'd need a new child for each archdemon.

I'm very confused by Morrigan at the end of the game.  My (female, city elf) character didn't make any particular effort to be 'friends' - I only did her personal quests to drag her approval back up from negative 'neutral' into the positive 'neutral' range, and my actions usually caused more disapproval than approval.  Yet by the end Morrigan was somehow 'friendly'...  Granted she may have been putting it on in order to improve her chances of my agreeing to the ritual, and she certainly played the 'do you REALLY want your lover to die or have to live with your death' angle to a T, but I felt something in the scripting there felt...too forced.  Maybe I'm just imagining things

Modifié par ZGold, 18 novembre 2009 - 01:50 .

[sagefic]

angi, you are friggin brilliant.

THAT is the best explanation of morrigan's motives i have yet heard. i totally buy it - and yet it still makes the whole decision difficult.

before i was thinking that this was a simple case of demonspawn vs. saving my own hide. but put like that, it really is a completely up-in-the-air question. there's a very real possibility that morrigan's decision could save everyone OR could end up really hurting everyone in the end.

i only wish that it wasn't alistair's kid you're sending off. for some reason making that decision about your OWN child seems - hard, but could do it. asking that of someone else - meh...not so much.

Eshaye wrote...

If anyting this ending has the potential to be the most interesting if ever it's brought into a sequel/expansion.

so here's some ways i'm thinking it could/should play out in DA2:

1. aren't the grey wardens semi-infertile (morrigan's magic night aside)? that leaves the supposedly barren anora, older loghain, and probably infertile alistair and/or the pc as the ones potentially responsible for siring an heir to the throne. seems clear to me that next game we're gonna be right back at the landsmeet figuring out who should rule now

2. morrigan is so gonna get her dragon child no matter who gives it to her. even if you kill the archdemon, surely she's going to figure out some other way to carry out this ritual

3. morrigan will be back. she just will.

4. You meet seemingly ordinary party member and it turns out to be morrigan's dragon child (romance-able? that would be pretty wild*)

5. THIS time around, if you sacrificed yourself LAST time, you get a totally happy ending, no string attached AND the taint is fully lifted. if you didn't, you can get a semi-happy ending, but the taint remains.

just...thinking...

*edit: this is assuming you play a new PC 30 years later. NOT that you play the old PC  - that would just be...no, not going there.

Modifié par sagequeen, 18 novembre 2009 - 06:00 .

[sagefic]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

This lays room for the plot in Dragon Age 2...

But looks like we have to wait TWO YEARS...

2? okay.

*twiddles thumbs*

[sagefic]

Agni108 wrote...

I am hoping that Bioware will NOT have us play as the God Child of Morrigan in the expansion.  

really? cause...i kind of thought...that would be sort of cool-like...

am i the only one who thought this? i was thinkin' maybe you'd have different abilities based on who was your father. (PC, Al, or someone else who Morrigan got her claws into later on)

[Dussan2]

Who here thinks that the Morrigan kid scenario is canon?

I think so. Because of a couple of things.

Refuse her offer and she ups and leaves. No Morrigan in the final fight, for me it would have BLOWN cause she DPS'd the holy **** out of that weak ass Archdemon. I mean Spell Might, Hex, then Blizzard and finally Tempest. I never seen that large a group of numbers fly up in the air that fast in a while. Dumb bastard never saw that one coming.

Also think of this. Morrigan's purpose from the beginning was to have a Warden child WITH the soul of the Old God.

Agree with you Sage, for teh sequel it would be insanely cool if the PC was teh offspring of the PC from the last game using the same saves.  So you basically continue what your Father or "step-mother" did.  Origins in this game would be incredibly intemate and knowledgeable because these are events I experied.

Modifié par Dussan2, 18 novembre 2009 - 06:29 .

[LdyShayna]

Dussan2 wrote...

Who here thinks that the Morrigan kid scenario is canon?

I suspect that later games will require her to have found SOME way to have this child, yes.  It's part of the meta-gamey way I'm convincing myself to take this offer, anyway.  It might suck, but some hero will rise in the future to deal with it.  Heh.

[Lord Shitzu]

jimmyw404 wrote...

don't you want your son to be cool like this? http://media.photobu...Naruto_Cool.jpg

Hah! Good point.

[Jacks-Up]

CastorKrieg wrote...

Sorry, in the land of cRPGs it will only end one way - Morrigan wants more power, and baby demon will give it to her. Will probably control next Blight as well. I think the baby will be more powerful than the next Archdemon, as Morrigan said she wants "pure essence of a God". Pure essence >>> tainted essence of the Archdemon.

She was last seen in the Frozen Mountains, Orlais here we come!

If they decide to continue this characters tale I have a feeling in order to have Morrigan as a PC again you may have to refuse her off she goes to Orlais anyway.

[Akka le Vil]

sagequeen wrote...

This is total speculation, but speculate with me - what exactly IS she taking off with her? Is this just a sort of queasy proposition, or the start of something really, really bad (like, epic "swooping")?

Honestly, do you really wish to give the potential power of an Old God to someone who get a "Morrigan disapproves" anytime you do something that could vaguely be considered decent ?

Let's say that I think I'll rarely survive the encounter with the Archdemon. I guess Ferelden will be laden with hero's tomb by the time I finish all the storylines.

[sagefic]

Dussan2 wrote...



Also think of this. Morrigan's purpose from the beginning was to have a Warden child WITH the soul of the Old God.

Agree with you Sage, for teh sequel it would be insanely cool if the PC was teh offspring of the PC from the last game using the same saves.  So you basically continue what your Father or "step-mother" did.  Origins in this game would be incredibly intemate and knowledgeable because these are events I experied.

that would be cool. and your point about the "step-mother" is well taken.  is the dragon-child at all connected to the femPC? maybe taint essence or something? or is there no suggested link do you think?

Akka le Vil wrote...

Honestly, do you really wish to give the potential power of an Old God to someone who get a "Morrigan disapproves" anytime you do something that could vaguely be considered decent ?

i totally don't think she's evil. neutral, like angi implies, yes, but not evil. questionable - maybe. i find when i play my human noble i totally don't trust her. i play as a mage, i totally trust her. weird - my chars are influencing my view of her. though she does treat mages with more sympathy, i think.  and she only gets annoyed at needless delays. heck, you give 30 silver to the chantry just cause the rev. mother in lothering asked and morrigan stands by without disapproving. she even takes the rev. mother's blessing and kneels (totally shocked me). she gets annoyed when you do QUESTS that take away from the main plot.  and she completely approved of me letting jowan go again - again, not because she approves of blood magic, per se, but because she wants freedom. i guess that's her battle cry - freedom!

[Driveninhifi]

The problems with continuing the sequel as the child are a) it doesn't always occur and that's the freaking setup for Baldur's Gate.



Also you can't say Grey Wardens die after 30 years as you can meet one that's like 200 years old. Plus if there's a magic ritual to prevent you from dying as you kill the demon, there could easily be one to clean the taint.



Anyway, I think the story is way more interesting if you continue as your PC. Morrigan really has the best development in the game and it would be a shame to not let you find her and continue it. And for those that want to get rid of her, perhaps you could hunt her down and fight.