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[highcastle]

Anders in the earlier acts has some good one-liners. Walk around with him and Varric and listen to them talk about various ways to get revenge on Bartrand. Or hear him and Izzy discuss their past history at the Pearl. He also drops the age-old "A wizard did it" in a conversation with Bartrand. The old Anders is there, but as the game progresses, he loses himself.

This is done intentionally, IMO. Anders' big moment at the end would not have been so effective with a character who was naturally grim and motivated. But Anders used to be light-hearted and kind and funny. That's how far he's fallen. That's the toll his possession and obsession have taken. It's supposed to be tragic and sad. If you miss the old Anders, good. I believe you're supposed to feel some kind of loss for what he's become.

[Heidenreich]

Oh anders was a whiney pro-mage in awakening too.. he was just so much more "pro-me" in awakening then in DA2. Justice makes him "pro-terrorism" ;p

[SurelyForth]

highcastle wrote...

Anders in the earlier acts has some good one-liners. Walk around with him and Varric and listen to them talk about various ways to get revenge on Bartrand. Or hear him and Izzy discuss their past history at the Pearl. He also drops the age-old "A wizard did it" in a conversation with Bartrand. The old Anders is there, but as the game progresses, he loses himself.

This is done intentionally, IMO. Anders' big moment at the end would not have been so effective with a character who was naturally grim and motivated. But Anders used to be light-hearted and kind and funny. That's how far he's fallen. That's the toll his possession and obsession have taken. It's supposed to be tragic and sad. If you miss the old Anders, good. I believe you're supposed to feel some kind of loss for what he's become.

This, exactly. I'm someone who found him quite amusing in Awakening, as an entire package of sarcasm, kitty-loving and punning. By the end of DA2, when he's been completely stripped of his humor, I feel like I have been through the wringer, too. And it's awesome when a game can accomplish that with a character.

But he's not all unfunny in DA2. Besides Varric, he and Isabela have a cute banter about abominations and whether or not they go "Grrrr. Argh." and he jokes around a bit with Aveline.

And I love his musings on the Black Divine, stalking Thedas and making it unsafe for kittens and virgins.

[Aeowyn]

Anders’ sense of humour still pops up now and then, but not in the scale it was in DAA. However, considering what has happened between Awakening and DA2, I don’t see how people can expect him to be the same guy who rarely took anything seriously.
In DAA he’s more concerned about himself, and how he would stay away from the Circle. Even though he was against the Circle and the Chantry even then, it was only himself and his own freedom that he put first. When Justice asks why he isn’t fighting to free his fellow mages, Anders says that it is too much work and not worth the risk of being caught. He does not like being trapped anywhere, as shown if you choose the “Joining the Wardens is for life” option during the “What would you do if you didn’t have to be here (Vigil’s Keep)?” – conversation.
Now between DAA and DA2 the following happened:
• The Chantry sent a Templar to the Wardens to keep a watch on him.
• He’s given more thought to the plight of the mages.
• He let Justice use him as a host.
Justice became corrupted in the process due to Angers’ anger and Anders feels guilty because of this. Now add the fact that he still has Justice there, and Justice gets angry when he sees something he doesn’t like. Like the issue with the mages and the Chantry. There is a power struggle, and I imagine it’s not an easy struggle either.
Given the above, I can perfectly understand why he’s not the same old, joking Anders. Personally, I would find him very annoying if he was his old self after that. It would just make it look like he wasn’t taking it seriously.

[Goldens]

I think that since we get moments where Justice takes Anders over, the character would've been better served if they had traded in some of his whine-time for more moments of the old Anders. It would've given him some continuity and made him a fuller character.

[Bann Duncan]

Aeowyn wrote...

Anders’ sense of humour still pops up now and then, but not in the scale it was in DAA. However, considering what has happened between Awakening and DA2, I don’t see how people can expect him to be the same guy who rarely took anything seriously.
In DAA he’s more concerned about himself, and how he would stay away from the Circle. Even though he was against the Circle and the Chantry even then, it was only himself and his own freedom that he put first. When Justice asks why he isn’t fighting to free his fellow mages, Anders says that it is too much work and not worth the risk of being caught. He does not like being trapped anywhere, as shown if you choose the “Joining the Wardens is for life” option during the “What would you do if you didn’t have to be here (Vigil’s Keep)?” – conversation.
Now between DAA and DA2 the following happened:
• The Chantry sent a Templar to the Wardens to keep a watch on him.
• He’s given more thought to the plight of the mages.
• He let Justice use him as a host.
Justice became corrupted in the process due to Angers’ anger and Anders feels guilty because of this. Now add the fact that he still has Justice there, and Justice gets angry when he sees something he doesn’t like. Like the issue with the mages and the Chantry. There is a power struggle, and I imagine it’s not an easy struggle either.
Given the above, I can perfectly understand why he’s not the same old, joking Anders. Personally, I would find him very annoying if he was his old self after that. It would just make it look like he wasn’t taking it seriously.

This!

He's an abomination with a Fade spirit inside of him. How can you blame him for not being funny when his mind is being twisted by vengeance?

Anyway, for those of you who still can't figure that out, I suggest that you take a look at this. I think it will make you understand the situation better.

[EvilEresh]

DiscipleofUranus wrote...

People change, would have been a bit boring if he was a copy and paste from what we had in Awakenings

He was a funny son-of-a-**** in Awakening.  There was very little that was boring about him.  I keep switching between Awakening and DA:2 to remind myself why I liked him so much.


If you listen to nothing else, listen to Oghren and Anders.  

[Jmaru7]

"A wizard did it"

[Vhalkyrie]

He lost his cat, and he's possessed by a fade spirit. While Justice was a 'good' spirit, he was corrupted and changed by Anders' issues. Justice is gone, and Anders is gone. Now there is only Anders-Vengeance. Personally, I would have been upset if they kept the same Anders personality.  It would have been out of place for him to be happy, jokey. 

Especially the cat thing.  I'd go all righteous angry if my employer made me get rid of my cat.  My Warden-Commander wants to know who was responsible for this.  She was pro Warden-cat, since she gave him Sir Pounce-A-Lot in the first place!

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 22 mars 2011 - 02:04 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

I would have started a war if someone took my cat.

No, really, I'm not joking.

[Inujade]

Man, I don't get the people who say DAA Anders = Alistair. Sure, they're both blondes with a silly sense of humour. But...

Anders is clearly sexually confident, whereas Alistair is a bumbling virgin.

Alistair wants to help everyone who can be helped, Anders mostly looks out for himself.

Alistair doesn't agree with ALL the things the Circle does, but he believes controlling mages is necessary. He even suggests that it's not worth trying to save the mages trapped in the Circle. Anders is completely Anti-Circle and would have been disgusted with the Templars there.

Anders starts crap with his companions WAY more often than Alistair does. Alistair really only starts crap with Morrigan.

Finally, what Anders wants more than anything is freedom, and to not be tied down to anything. Alistair's greatest wish IS to be tied down, because he wants a family (and monogamy, if you romance him).

So yeah, what?

I do wish we got to see some more DAA Anders in DA2 though...not that I hate the changes, I just wish they were more...gradual.

Modifié par Inujade, 22 mars 2011 - 02:03 .

[LadyJaneGrey]

casedawgz wrote...

I didn't even think he was all that funny in Awakening. Especially not when compared with Sigrun, Oghren, and some of Nathaniel's dry humor.

Agreed.  When Anders made a comment about Nathaniel "finally finding a sense of humor" while talking with Delilah, this player wanted to bark that Nathaniel was always more amusing than Anders was in Awakening.

Edit: pronoun clarification

Modifié par LadyJaneGrey, 22 mars 2011 - 02:11 .

[Vhalkyrie]

I thought Anders and Nathaniel were both funny. Nathaniel's dry wit, versus Anders' sarcasm.

[aznsoisauce]

danteliveson wrote...

No Greg Ellis David Gaider.

Fixed that for you.

loljkomg 

But seriously...I'm not really bothered by what Anders turned into after DA:A, but I do feel like it could've been done better. Except that blowing up the chantry thing. That was perfect.

[Serelir]

If you spare him at the end, do you think he'll re-appear in the next game? I hope there will be some way to exorcise Justice out of him. I liked how Justice was a metaphor for the way people can become possessed by a cause, in contrast to the people who become possessed by Pride, for instance. We don't get to see many of the "good" demons in action.

I also never would have made him give up his cat. We carried that kitty through thick and thin!

[Vhalkyrie]

Tuilinn Celeborne wrote...

If you spare him at the end, do you think he'll re-appear in the next game? I hope there will be some way to exorcise Justice out of him. I liked how Justice was a metaphor for the way people can become possessed by a cause, in contrast to the people who become possessed by Pride, for instance. We don't get to see many of the "good" demons in action.

I also never would have made him give up his cat. We carried that kitty through thick and thin!

Wow...that's great.  I hadn't thought of it that way, that Anders was possessed by a cause by taking in the Justice spirit, but you are right. Wynne, however, had a similar connection to a spirit, but it didn't corrupt her.  Perhaps because she was already at peace with herself.

I don't know if Anders will return if you free him.  I made playthroughs both ways, just in case.  One in which he runs off as fugitive revolutionaries with my mage Hawke.  Another in which he was executed by rogue Hawke.

[Johnsen1972]

I loved the original Anders much more, its a shame what Justice did to him

[Patriciachr34]

Anders used to be Anders and now he is not. You get more Anders in Act 1. However, from Act 2 to Act 3 Anders starts disappearing forever. Anders knows he is losing himself, who he used to be, to Justice/Vengeance. This is his conflict. I personally think that in the end he knows that all he was will soon cease to exist and that his only release from this inevitability is death. He makes one grand gesture to catalyze the conflict, and ensure his ultimate release. I'm just not sure if when he died, Justice died as well. his death scene shows him lingering for a split second, then he seems relieved, and he dies. Whether this means he is finally free of Justice or that Justice has died with him, I do not know. Dadgum writers and their open endings!

[UltiPup]

Heaven forbid that a character from an expansion that was pretty one dimensional have a character development.

[WidowMaker9394]

danteliveson wrote...

No Greg Ellis.

This could be the reason. This new guy is simply boring to listen to.

[blackwolf_majik]

SurelyForth wrote...

highcastle wrote...

Anders in the earlier acts has some good one-liners. Walk around with him and Varric and listen to them talk about various ways to get revenge on Bartrand. Or hear him and Izzy discuss their past history at the Pearl. He also drops the age-old "A wizard did it" in a conversation with Bartrand. The old Anders is there, but as the game progresses, he loses himself.

This is done intentionally, IMO. Anders' big moment at the end would not have been so effective with a character who was naturally grim and motivated. But Anders used to be light-hearted and kind and funny. That's how far he's fallen. That's the toll his possession and obsession have taken. It's supposed to be tragic and sad. If you miss the old Anders, good. I believe you're supposed to feel some kind of loss for what he's become.

This, exactly. I'm someone who found him quite amusing in Awakening, as an entire package of sarcasm, kitty-loving and punning. By the end of DA2, when he's been completely stripped of his humor, I feel like I have been through the wringer, too. And it's awesome when a game can accomplish that with a character.

But he's not all unfunny in DA2. Besides Varric, he and Isabela have a cute banter about abominations and whether or not they go "Grrrr. Argh." and he jokes around a bit with Aveline.

And I love his musings on the Black Divine, stalking Thedas and making it unsafe for kittens and virgins.

This.
I literally cried from the explosion until the final fight.
I had been a fan of Anders since Awakenings and a staunch mage/apostate supporter. I was dissapointed in DAA where he wasn't a romance option, so I was really excited to get a chance at him this time. 
But when he went all 'Cortez' on things - I could't let him slide.

It tore holes in me to kill the mages I had defended and helped for so long.
I was glad that Cullen sided with me in the end. He has come a great way from the last time we see him in the Ferelden Tower.

And seriously - i'm sure this has been asked a million times already - if Greg Ellis was already in the recording booth for Cullen, would it have been quite so much to have him be Anders again too? I love his voice...

[Patriciachr34]

I always viewed Anders as fatally flawed, even in Awakenings. I always felt his humor was just a veneer to cover his own pain and suffering. Despite his twisted views and actions, I still believe the mage's cause to be just. This is why I sided with the mages and not the Templars. Anders simply went too far.

[Tamahome560]

Yeah they ruined him! I mean it's not like he has merged with his spirit friend and corrupted him turning him into demon that is now taking over him while he has no control over it effectively turning him into an abomination with the demon pulling out all of his hatred towards the circle and the templars and using it to make him go on a crusade against tyranny that mages are subjected to....

This is called character development. There are times when he does act like he did when he was demon-free.

[Helen0rz]

what everyone else said.

Sucks, was looking forward to his return and now, not so much. Anders 2.0 just...whiny.

He basically traded his humor for Justice but got Vegeance and a new face/voice instead

[ThatDancingTurian]

Tamahome560 wrote...

This is called character development. There are times when he does act like he did when he was demon-free.

I disagree on both points. I never saw any of DA:A Anders in this new character. And it's not 'development' if all the 'development' happens off-screen. It's just a rewrite.

I think the mantra for Anders' character was 'tell, don't show'. We're told he's lost his funny by Varric instead of shown a natural character progression from the beginning of the game to the end. We're told he was fighting the spirit inside of him between acts 2 & 3 so we can imagine there was some kind of arc there even though we don't see a lick of it in-game. All in all I think he was just poorly executed.

It reminds me so much of what happened to Deadpool in the Wolverine movie. Take a funny, interesting character that is incredibly popular, then have him disappear for a while and slap the same name on an unimaginative villain with nothing in common with his previous self. It's a very cheap way to tell a story.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 23 mars 2011 - 12:33 .