43 réponses à ce sujet

[fluorine7]

So I've been hearing a lot of people saying "there's no choice", or "my choice doesn't make a difference". Also I heard people argue about LI's sexual orientation, people are either happy or upset about how Anders is gay or bi.  But the thing is, the only reason you know all of these is because

1, you played the game multiple times. 
2, you read about other people's comment about different choices. 

But the story is linear, without playing it twice, you won't know no matter what you do, Anders will blow up the Chantry, or you mother will get killed, you won't know Anders will hit on both male or female. Well, Isabella is openly bi, but all other LI are alternating between gay/lesbain and straight based on Hawk's sex. 

So I feel that it'd make more sense everytime you start a new play through consider it an alternative reality. Some event remain the same, but some event turns out differently. Your character can be a male, female, warrior. rough or mage... The people you meet is not the same people you meet last time. Although they might seem similar, but because you changed, they also changed. 

There won't be arguments about "meanlingless choice". You make a choice, and it has various impact. For a event like Thedas total civil war, no one can be solely responsible for it. Hawke is not reponsible to start it, he/she is definitely not capable of stopping it. Think about WWII, no one can pin point one crucial decision by one person, that if he decided differently, the war could be avoided. History doesn't work that way. For something like full blow continantal war to happen, it takes a series of event, a series of decisions made by different people based on various reason to achieve various results. 

If we can some how replay the history, even we play as President Roosevelt or Hetler himself, we would end up with the same World War, BUT, we probably have different enemies or allies. 

So I feel that all these talking about bad writing or design, or meaningless choices, all this upsets about who's gay or who's bi....... is a bit unfair to Bioware and to the players. 

[mesmerizedish]

They're all bi.

'Nuff said.

[fluorine7]

That's not true. Bi means they're attracted by male and female at the same time. Anders is not bi because within a play through, he only attracted to Hawke, if Hawke is male, he's gay, if Hawke is female, he's straight. That's what I meant by alternative reality. In another reality, he could be gay, but in this reality, he's straight.

[AlexXIV]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

They're all bi.

'Nuff said.

The OGB is bi.

[MasterSolo]

fluorine7 wrote...

So I've been hearing a lot of people saying "there's no choice", or "my choice doesn't make a difference". Also I heard people argue about LI's sexual orientation, people are either happy or upset about how Anders is gay or bi.  But the thing is, the only reason you know all of these is because

1, you played the game multiple times. 
2, you read about other people's comment about different choices. 

But the story is linear, without playing it twice, you won't know no matter what you do, Anders will blow up the Chantry, or you mother will get killed, you won't know Anders will hit on both male or female. Well, Isabella is openly bi, but all other LI are alternating between gay/lesbain and straight based on Hawk's sex. 

So I feel that it'd make more sense everytime you start a new play through consider it an alternative reality. Some event remain the same, but some event turns out differently. Your character can be a male, female, warrior. rough or mage... The people you meet is not the same people you meet last time. Although they might seem similar, but because you changed, they also changed. 

There won't be arguments about "meanlingless choice". You make a choice, and it has various impact. For a event like Thedas total civil war, no one can be solely responsible for it. Hawke is not reponsible to start it, he/she is definitely not capable of stopping it. Think about WWII, no one can pin point one crucial decision by one person, that if he decided differently, the war could be avoided. History doesn't work that way. For something like full blow continantal war to happen, it takes a series of event, a series of decisions made by different people based on various reason to achieve various results. 

If we can some how replay the history, even we play as President Roosevelt or Hetler himself, we would end up with the same World War, BUT, we probably have different enemies or allies. 

So I feel that all these talking about bad writing or design, or meaningless choices, all this upsets about who's gay or who's bi....... is a bit unfair to Bioware and to the players. 

Unfortunately constructive criticism is rare, here. I do agree with you,  this is indeed unfair towards Bioware, and a lot of the people just whine for nothing: "OMG THIS GAME IS SO BAD, DA:O WAS WAY BETTER! I HATE IT" and they end up having 4 or more playthroughs. Hypocrasy...

[fluorine7]

what's OGB?

[AlexXIV]

fluorine7 wrote...

what's OGB?

Old God Baby. Morrigan's Darkspawn.

[mesmerizedish]

fluorine7 wrote...

That's not true. Bi means they're attracted by male and female at the same time. Anders is not bi because within a play through, he only attracted to Hawke, if Hawke is male, he's gay, if Hawke is female, he's straight. That's what I meant by alternative reality. In another reality, he could be gay, but in this reality, he's straight.

Okay, first, that's not true. Anders is bi. Fenris and Merrill only talk about being attracter to Hawke, so they're the only ones whom you could say aren't bi, and even then it's only because of the lack of evidence.

Second, you clearly weren't paying attention to the forums during the week or three before release

[AlexXIV]

MasterSolo wrote...

fluorine7 wrote...

So I've been hearing a lot of people saying "there's no choice", or "my choice doesn't make a difference". Also I heard people argue about LI's sexual orientation, people are either happy or upset about how Anders is gay or bi.  But the thing is, the only reason you know all of these is because

1, you played the game multiple times. 
2, you read about other people's comment about different choices. 

But the story is linear, without playing it twice, you won't know no matter what you do, Anders will blow up the Chantry, or you mother will get killed, you won't know Anders will hit on both male or female. Well, Isabella is openly bi, but all other LI are alternating between gay/lesbain and straight based on Hawk's sex. 

So I feel that it'd make more sense everytime you start a new play through consider it an alternative reality. Some event remain the same, but some event turns out differently. Your character can be a male, female, warrior. rough or mage... The people you meet is not the same people you meet last time. Although they might seem similar, but because you changed, they also changed. 

There won't be arguments about "meanlingless choice". You make a choice, and it has various impact. For a event like Thedas total civil war, no one can be solely responsible for it. Hawke is not reponsible to start it, he/she is definitely not capable of stopping it. Think about WWII, no one can pin point one crucial decision by one person, that if he decided differently, the war could be avoided. History doesn't work that way. For something like full blow continantal war to happen, it takes a series of event, a series of decisions made by different people based on various reason to achieve various results. 

If we can some how replay the history, even we play as President Roosevelt or Hetler himself, we would end up with the same World War, BUT, we probably have different enemies or allies. 

So I feel that all these talking about bad writing or design, or meaningless choices, all this upsets about who's gay or who's bi....... is a bit unfair to Bioware and to the players. 

Unfortunately constructive criticism is rare, here. I do agree with you,  this is indeed unfair towards Bioware, and a lot of the people just whine for nothing: "OMG THIS GAME IS SO BAD, DA:O WAS WAY BETTER! I HATE IT" and they end up having 4 or more playthroughs. Hypocrasy...

Well I need 4 playthroughs. One for each sibling and one for each side in the endgame.

[fluorine7]

MasterSolo wrote...

Unfortunately constructive criticism is rare, here. I do agree with you,  this is indeed unfair towards Bioware, and a lot of the people just whine for nothing: "OMG THIS GAME IS SO BAD, DA:O WAS WAY BETTER! I HATE IT" and they end up having 4 or more playthroughs. Hypocrasy...

LOL, yeah... I often wonder, if they hated that much, why play it twice or three times just to find out your choices doesn't change the game outcome. It's funny when people say "I hated it in the first play through, so I played it again and hated it even more"....LOL... There's a lot of game I don't like, I stop playing them mid way. 

I'm personally not a big fan of Fall out 3, I played it once, and be done with it. 

[fluorine7]

AlexXIV wrote...

fluorine7 wrote...

what's OGB?

Old God Baby. Morrigan's Darkspawn.

why is OGB bi? I think I missed the joke somewhere....

Anyways...

I thought Anders only mentioned Karl was his lover if Hawke is male. I played fem-Hawke and Romanced Anders, he didn't show any sign about being gay or remotely interested in man. So I always thought he's straight. It's not until later I read stradegy guide that I know he swing both ways. 

[edit] Correction, he doesn't swing both ways. He's available for both male or female Hawke as potential Romanceable character. He's sexual orientation is set based on Hawke's gender. 

Modifié par fluorine7, 22 mars 2011 - 01:28 .

[TheBlackBaron]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

They're all bi.

'Nuff said.

They're Hawkesexual, actually. 

Anders in particular is highly egregarious in switching sexuality based on Hawke's gender. 

[MasterSolo]

fluorine7 wrote...

MasterSolo wrote...

Unfortunately constructive criticism is rare, here. I do agree with you,  this is indeed unfair towards Bioware, and a lot of the people just whine for nothing: "OMG THIS GAME IS SO BAD, DA:O WAS WAY BETTER! I HATE IT" and they end up having 4 or more playthroughs. Hypocrasy...

LOL, yeah... I often wonder, if they hated that much, why play it twice or three times just to find out your choices doesn't change the game outcome. It's funny when people say "I hated it in the first play through, so I played it again and hated it even more"....LOL... There's a lot of game I don't like, I stop playing them mid way. 

I'm personally not a big fan of Fall out 3, I played it once, and be done with it. 

Yes indeed, that's the way some people are. It was the same with ME2, in the first weeks there was a lot of flaming, about the last boss, and how the story was weak and unnecessary and there were no gay romances etc, and then the game ends up with so many awards, and people stopped flaming. Instead of enjoying the game, they keep screaming nonsense. That's the way it is.

[mesmerizedish]

fluorine7 wrote...

why is OGB bi? I think I missed the joke somewhere....

You did. I'm hurt

[Freeway911]

The end of the main story can't be changed thats all there is to it. As annoying as it is I understand why they made it like that. DA2 opened up the world for so many possibilities and expansions based on the main story line. If that is truly what they wanted to do with this game I believe they achieved that.

You can however change other small scale things in the game with the choices you make. Secondary and companion quests have the option to make things different. My wife refused to help Aveline with her get the guy quest which made her quest in act 3 funny. But these things don't truly impact the main plot of the game.

[Pandaman102]

fluorine7 wrote...

LOL, yeah... I often wonder, if they hated that much, why play it twice or three times just to find out your choices doesn't change the game outcome. It's funny when people say "I hated it in the first play through, so I played it again and hated it even more"....LOL... There's a lot of game I don't like, I stop playing them mid way. 

I'm personally not a big fan of Fall out 3, I played it once, and be done with it. 

So you're ignoring all the people who enjoyed it the first time through and only came to the realization that none of the decisions you make really change anything the second time through? What a nice way to stack your argument.

[mesmerizedish]

Filament wrote...

It all went down hill when we started putting you in our drinking water. Now we talk about this "alternate reality" mumbo jumbo like it makes any sense to anyone who's lucid.

Well okay, a reduced form of you, anyway.

Fluorine7 is the OGB.

[fluorine7]

From a production perspective, offering too much story arc choices is always messy. Especially if choices are carried to next installment. When a choice is offered and different results achieved, it's often "black and white" choices, either you kill this guy or you let him live; Either you destroy the collector base or you keep it.

For the players to actually see/feel the impact of their choices, the following stories needs to have significant variations. For example, if you let Anders live, and have him show up in the next game, either have him as party member or giving him side quests. All these design will get wasted if someone choose to kill Anders. It doesn't stop there, Anders' Party banter, people's reaction, quests progressing differently with or without anders.... You basically spend all that money to create a character who can only reach a certain percentage of players. While if I create a new character, his story and quest will likely reach all players.

So Anders' production value reduces if there's choice about him either live or die.

I actually totally understand why Bioware make the design choices to eliminate possible ending outcomes. I even understand the universal criticism about repetitive environments....LOL. If you consider this not as a living breathing fantasy world but rather a 3D world that created under budget under deadline, it make a lot more sense to reuse assets.

[fluorine7]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Filament wrote...

It all went down hill when we started putting you in our drinking water. Now we talk about this "alternate reality" mumbo jumbo like it makes any sense to anyone who's lucid.

Well okay, a reduced form of you, anyway.

Fluorine7 is the OGB.

And I thought my dad is a retired doctor.... LOL. 

[Suron]

fluorine7 wrote...

That's not true. Bi means they're attracted by male and female at the same time. Anders is not bi because within a play through, he only attracted to Hawke, if Hawke is male, he's gay, if Hawke is female, he's straight. That's what I meant by alternative reality. In another reality, he could be gay, but in this reality, he's straight.

no...even Bio (I believe it was Gaider) has said that there is no stupid sexual orientation based off your character.

they're ALL BISEXUAL.  FACT.

there's no reason for them to talk about that to an opposite gender Hawke..it just doesn't come up.

Anders still had relations with that mage friend of his even if you're female..he just doesn't bring it up.

again..this is FACT...BioWare THEMSELVES (again I believe it was King Gaider) has said so.

so you're wrong...as I said..all bi..deal with it.

[Suron]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

They're all bi.

'Nuff said.

They're Hawkesexual, actually. 

Anders in particular is highly egregarious in switching sexuality based on Hawke's gender. 

again..wrong.

all bi.

it was the thread someone posted with the title along the lines of "BioWare ignores their largest demograph-straight males"...again something along those lines..and no I won't look it up for you.

but again...yet again...all BiSexual..regardless of Hawke's gender.  FACT

Modifié par Suron, 22 mars 2011 - 01:46 .

[fluorine7]

Filament wrote...

It all went down hill when we started putting you in our drinking water. Now we talk about this "alternate reality" mumbo jumbo like it makes any sense to anyone who's lucid.

Well okay, a reduced form of you, anyway.

Well, there's no need to get all nasty about it. I know people feel strongly about this game. I just feel that it make more sense to think of it from a different perspective. 

If you have a different character every time, then it is a different reality. I couldn't think of a better way to address this. But I feel that it would be better to enjoy the story as it is. 

I enjoy the game, I still enjoying in on my second play through. I probably would enjoy it on my third run if I end up doing it. I acknowledge the lack of impact of your choices, but i don't see it somehow deminish the impact of the story. It is still a very strong story with very interesting compainions and NPCs. 

[Iecerint]

Regarding the issue of Anders' sexuality -- Anders is not gay in any reality, because he expressed interest in women in Awakening.

That aside, Gaider has commented on this issue. To paraphrase, the writers didn't approach the characters with sexual labels in mind, but you're encouraged to draw your own conclusions -- even if he may personally and privately find some of them a bit of a stretch.

[mesmerizedish]

fluorine7 wrote...

Filament wrote...

It all went down hill when we started putting you in our drinking water. Now we talk about this "alternate reality" mumbo jumbo like it makes any sense to anyone who's lucid.

Well okay, a reduced form of you, anyway.

Well, there's no need to get all nasty about it. I know people feel strongly about this game. I just feel that it make more sense to think of it from a different perspective.

Filament was joking... the not-adorable-at-all-new-avatar makes it difficult to tell*, but he's really quite cuddly.




*I guess?