Questa discussione ha avuto 367 risposte

[AKOdin]

You had asked if there was an upper ceiling on the Runes of Fortune. I hadn't hit one after applying 10 of them to my active party. Someone else posted that RoF's don't apply if they are on companions not in your active party. My own checking confirms that. Finally, all RoF's are not created equal.

The RoF's on companion armor generate roughly +10% each after rounding.

[Agenda42]

I'm interested in hearing people's opinions about wearing warrior or mage armor. Either way, how can we minimize the required amount of natural strength or willpower we need to still equip a reasonable set of gear?

Also, I wonder how others build the spell trees for their blood mage. I find that my results are better when I skip most of the upgrades and instead just pick up as many buttons as I can. I do grab Chain Reaction and Strikes Twice, because they're too amazing not to have.

My Hawke remains envious of Merrill, but I am finding that I like having One Foot In and Sacrifice available. It's at least not obvious that Merrill is the superior blood mage =)

[Colma]

Later on there is very little difference in the armor values between all 3 class armors. So going out of your way to wear items of a different class is just silly, especially if you consider the +25% you get from rock armor. My mage stayed at 70% or higher damage mitigation pretty much the entire game. I also don't understand the aversion to pumping willpower for gear. Sure you can't zomgpowerup your CON, but you don't need to. With the right high end gear you should be getting 7:1 mana conversion (or more if you gimp yourself a little) and still finish the game with no less than 250 health.

As far as a build goes, I prefer BM/FM with primal tree, winters grasp, and a mix from entropy and arcane.

[Vukodlak]

Within the gamefiles exists a rune called the Celestial Rune, near as I can tell this rune can not normally be acquired. Though if anyone has found it I'd like to know. The rune removes the ability requirements from items, If you applied it to say the Robes of Unblemished Cleanliness you could equip the rune then replace it valiance once its on.

But as I said the rune doesn't appear to be normally available.

[SuicidalBaby]

Vukodlak wrote...

Within the gamefiles exists a rune called the Celestial Rune, near as I can tell this rune can not normally be acquired. Though if anyone has found it I'd like to know. The rune removes the ability requirements from items, If you applied it to say the Robes of Unblemished Cleanliness you could equip the rune then replace it valiance once its on.

But as I said the rune doesn't appear to be normally available.

From every simple attribute test Ive ran, all requirement gear checks pulse. You would have to keep the rune on, if it was liberated via mod that is.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

I'm interested in hearing people's opinions about wearing warrior or mage armor.

I'll stick to Grount's opinion there, high level mage robes are pretty good, and playing a mage I don't get myself into close combat anyway. And I never ran out of mana with BM, so I don't get the idea of additional +20 health being mandatory. Physical damage bonus seems the only lead to wearing anything else, and we yet to see what's SuicidialBaby's planning with that.

Modificata da DamnThoseDisplayNames, 24 marzo 2011 - 06:16 .

[SuicidalBaby]

AKOdin wrote...

You had asked if there was an upper ceiling on the Runes of Fortune. I hadn't hit one after applying 10 of them to my active party. Someone else posted that RoF's don't apply if they are on companions not in your active party. My own checking confirms that. Finally, all RoF's are not created equal.

The RoF's on companion armor generate roughly +10% each after rounding.

I appreciate the out of your way responce.

[HippeusOmega]

Why is ppl so fancasticed by Force Mage? Is it the Fortitude+100? The Gravitic Ring? Anyone got a video of that being used? May have gotten hit by it in the game but not sure. Wouldn't Spirit healer be a better choice for a 2nd specialization as it would give us a total +75hps with SH's Passive ability and Blood Mage Specialization? Also what is usually better Elemental or Primal? Cause i like both trees.

We argue about armor and stats but isn't the champion armor sufficient enough? Put 31 points into Willpower and the rest into Magic and Constitution? That is what my Blood Mage is gonna wear. Is it practical maybe and maybe not. With Cold-Blooded and the items i have seen and Blood Lust I can get 7 mana per 1 health i think. I know the point is to augment our skills to their maximum but i'm not gonna wear stuff that is outdated in armor rating when i can look cool with the Champion Robe Set. What started this whole plate armor business is it the fact it has more health options?

Has anyone even seen a belt with 1:1 Blood Magic ratio yet?

Modificata da Panznerr, 24 marzo 2011 - 06:53 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Why is ppl so fancasticed by Force Mage?

Because of Gravitic Ring and Abyss that slows foes to the point where you can virtually slaughter entire groups with AoE's and Walking Bomb.

[HippeusOmega]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Why is ppl so fancasticed by Force Mage?

Because of Gravitic Ring and Abyss that slows foes to the point where you can virtually slaughter entire groups with AoE's and Walking Bomb.

I stand corrected. Saw a video on youtube of Force Mage in action and now i see why ppl enjoy it.

[Graunt]

If you manually aim Gravitic so that the reticle is actually hitting your target, the spell will cast directly on them with the center being where you cast it. The enemy cannot move at all for 20s. This works on 90% of the enemies in the game, including all of the dragons other than the High Dragon. This and Petrify are how you laugh at Assassins.

I've yet to really find much use for Pull at all though. I can think of some really good setups with it, especially with a Warrior, but the problem I have with it is that it's pretty much trash until you upgrade it's range.

Modificata da Graunt, 24 marzo 2011 - 08:08 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Its great to manipulate large groups, pull the tank with. Since everyone is piled, taunt right after.

[Graunt]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Its great to manipulate large groups, pull the tank with. Since everyone is piled, taunt right after.

Right, I know what it does, I've just never been in a situation where I thought "Hmm, if only I could pull this group together."  The main reason to do something like that for me would be to Assault or Scatter.  Walking Bomb is an obvious choice, except it's not that easy to setup, especially if you're using the tank to gather them up first.  I've been wanting to try out a 100% Spirit Resist tank setup with that, but it's a gimmick that's much later in the game.

I always just use Gravitic as a speed bump/snare if I don't need to lock something specific down and cast area of effect spells half way to the center of it and most of the weaker enemies are dead before they get out, and those that aren't are below half life unless they are an elite.  From there it's just range fire with the Tank picking up a few stragglers. Friendly Fire kills much of the awesomeness of the Force tree, because below Nightmare you can do some extremely crazy things.


Here's the tactic I use for Sacrifice on my Mage:

Self Health < 75%: Use current tactic in next line
Aveline Healh > 50%: Use Sacrifice
Aveline Healh < 50%: Use Heal

Also, I wonder how others build the spell trees for their blood mage. I find that my results are better when I skip most of the upgrades and instead just pick up as many buttons as I can. I do grab Chain Reaction and Strikes Twice, because they're too amazing not to have.

That's what I do initially, which is why it takes me a very long time to get Galvanism and especialy Dessicate.  As far as the Blood tree goes, I don't bother with One Foot or Blood Slave.  I grab everything else though.

We argue about armor and stats but isn't the champion armor sufficient
enough? Put 31 points into Willpower and the rest into Magic and
Constitution? That is what my Blood Mage is gonna wear. Is it practical
maybe and maybe not.

It's completely practical.  My last Mage has 382 health, 348 Mana and 80% Mitigation (that's the cap) in cloth with 7:1 conversion.  The only reason to go for more health than that is just to see what the maximum you can possibly get is without sacrificing your Magic score.  Functionality wise though it doesn't really serve much purpose if you can't die from two or three hits from some of the hardest hitting enemies.

Modificata da Graunt, 24 marzo 2011 - 08:44 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

My last Mage has 382 health

Care to explain how did you get around 45+ constitution? What level you ended the game?

Modificata da DamnThoseDisplayNames, 24 marzo 2011 - 09:31 .

[SuicidalBaby]

 I've been wanting to try out a 100% Spirit Resist tank setup with that, but it's a gimmick that's much later in the game.

only took 3 runes on Aveline to reach 97% on my first play through, which was NM. It just seem to be the only damage type I had to concern myself with outside of physical of course.

[SuicidalBaby]

Money Guide - Fast Rune of Fortune crafting added to basic theory section.

Modificata da SuicidialBaby, 24 marzo 2011 - 11:09 .

[Sriep]

Self hp <50% - Deactivate Blood Magic
Self hp <50% - Health Poultice
Self hp < 50% - set condition next tactic
Self mana <25% - Lyrium Poultice
Self Surrounded by 2 or more enemies - Mind Blast
Ally hp < 50% - Heal (Anders and Merrill will both be 50% deactivations on Vengence and Blood Magic)
Ally hp < 75% -  Barrier (if Merrill is in party 50%)
Self: Surrounded by 2 enemies - Set Condition for next
Self hp <75% - Grave Robber
Self hp <75% - Set condition for next
Tank hp >90% - Sacrifice
Self hp > 75% Activate Blood Magic
Enemy using magic attack > dispel/stonefist
Enemy nearest visable rogue > Horror/Petrify
Enemy Staggered - set condition next
Enemy Elite or higher - Crushing Prison
Enemy Staggered - set condition next
Enemy Clustered with 2 more - Chain Lightning
Enemy Staggered - set condition next
Enemy Clustered with 2 more - Hemmorage

I see that you start panicking about health, quaffing potions and stuff around 50% rather than 25%. Maybe will try but not convinced. The one thing I do think is that you should probably quaff as the last resort, and put Sacrifice and Graver robber above as I did in my first 4 tactics.
1 Health < 25% -> Sacrifice
2 Health < 25% -> Grave robber
3 Health < 25% -> Deactivate Blood Magic
4 Health < 25% -> Use Health potion
I should probably put a check for ally health when sacrificing, although I do not think you should necessarily limit yourself to the tank when sacrificing. Maybe use ally highest health.


I notice you only use zaps used in cross class combos only to complete that combo. So say instead of using chain lightning four times to hit 12 enemies for say 1200hp you use it twice to hit 4 enemies for 1400hp. However your might miss out on some early kills. Maybe try this, although you probably have to change your tactics if you do not have a warrior or rogue in the party.


Another thing I have tired is adding
Target Fenris → Winters Grasp
Except I only have him in my party about a third of the time. But if I have a free slot I think its worth it.


I have wavered on whether to use petrify on the highest health character or the nearest rogue. If there are free slots I would probably use both.

I notice you don't have blood slave? I am really unsure of the right conditions to use here.

You see to have a different philosophy about blood magic.
You
Self hp <50% - Deactivate Blood Magic
Self mana <25% - Lyrium Poultice
Self hp > 75% Activate Blood Magic
Me
3 Health < 25% -> Deactivate Blood Magic
18 Mana < 25% -> Activate Blood magic


I suspect how you spend your ability points might be relevant here. I have a mainly Magic/Con build with minimal points in willpower, so 25% of hit points is more actual hit points and there is not really much mana to restore, and health is the main casting resource.

If you could have a more even MAGIC/WILL/con build your approach makes more sense.

Modificata da Sriep, 24 marzo 2011 - 12:28 .

[SuicidalBaby]

the tactics are for those instances when Im not controlling, so its a survival set up. All advanced moves I do manually. Its a walking bomb/slave combo force/bm. I dont trust tactics to work properly with any ff capable spells.

Its min willpower, 100% blood magic uptime, this is a catastrophic condition tactic set up that generally sits at +85% health on average. With 100% sustains, in conditions that force bm off you have no mana, hence the lyrium. I have yet to buy any poultice outside of elf root.

Modificata da SuicidialBaby, 24 marzo 2011 - 07:08 .

[Graunt]

Sriep wrote...
I should probably put a check for ally health when sacrificing, although I do not think you should necessarily limit yourself to the tank when sacrificing. Maybe use ally highest health.

Highest health doesn't work very good simply because Sacrifice is based off of the base health for returns, not current health.  Using it on anyone other than the tank is typically a waste.  With my setup, I'm in almost no fear of dying ever and I'm using the 40% Heal on Aveline right after I Sacrifice.

I notice you don't have blood slave? I am really unsure of the right conditions to use here.

Blood Slave is a complete waste of a skill point, especially on Nightmare where it not only does not last for the listed 10s, the actual enslave has a much lower chance than what is listed and there are many better ways to CC.

@Suicidal: I didn't realize the Spirit Warding runes could be had so early in ACT2.  I do think though that if you really want your tank to be completely immune, you have to buy the three slotted shield as well as pick up Aveline's Long Road armor for the slot.  Having only three slots puts her at 85%, which isn't enough on many enemies.  You could always just force field ahead of time I suppose.  If you're using Fenris, that's another alternative and he can probably get away with just Deflect + three slotted chest.

I'm also finding it very difficult to actually get a Bomb build "running" before level 17 - 18 due to how cramped skill points already are, and I'm having Anders be the actual bomber again.

Modificata da Graunt, 24 marzo 2011 - 10:54 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Graunt wrote...

Sriep wrote...
I notice you don't have blood slave? I am really unsure of the right conditions to use here.

Blood Slave is a complete waste of a skill point, especially on Nightmare where it not only does not last for the listed 10s, the actual enslave has a much lower chance than what is listed and there are many better ways to CC.

The only repeatable opportunity I have found is to use it as a secondary device with Walking Bomb only after a Pull of the Abyss followed by an immediate Grav right after locking the entire group as 1 mass. Only use it on grunts to ensure detonation.

[Graunt]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Sriep wrote...
I notice you don't have blood slave? I am really unsure of the right conditions to use here.

Blood Slave is a complete waste of a skill point, especially on Nightmare where it not only does not last for the listed 10s, the actual enslave has a much lower chance than what is listed and there are many better ways to CC.

The only repeatable opportunity I have found is to use it as a secondary device with Walking Bomb only after a Pull of the Abyss followed by an immediate Grav right after locking the entire group as 1 mass. Only use it on grunts to ensure detonation.

Yep, I found out you could Bomb + Enslave as well, but I never felt like using it on a grunt unit simply because if they are already stuck in Gravitic (center/near center) there wasn't much point and if you're focus firing, it's going to die before it can run out too far from the group anyway.  The only worthwhile enemies seem to be "Normal" level enemies, yet they get controlled more like 75% of the time and it only lasts 3-6 seconds or so.

*edit - People actually buy any poultices in the game?  Use your storage chest and never run around with more than 1 of each unless it's a boss, and only start using them when you really have to in longer drawn out fights since as soon as you go below the 4 potion cap, the game will start randomizing them for you before you loot a corpse.  Same thing with injury kits.  Use them before you loot a corpse and you're almost guaranteed to get one back.

Modificata da Graunt, 24 marzo 2011 - 11:01 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Its about the explosive properties only. Using them as seperate tools working in combination against the elite/boss trapped with them. (Fatiguing Fog in combination of course.)

Modificata da SuicidialBaby, 02 aprile 2011 - 08:35 .

[SuicidalBaby]

(OFF TOPIC)

Should I concern myself with breaking down individual spells or just jump to advanced build guides for different set ups of controll / dps, tanking (pbaoe), & elemental/primal?

I think I answered my own question, but input is always good.

[Besetment]

Graunt wrote...

If you manually aim Gravitic so that the reticle is actually hitting your target, the spell will cast directly on them with the center being where you cast it. The enemy cannot move at all for 20s. This works on 90% of the enemies in the game, including all of the dragons other than the High Dragon. This and Petrify are how you laugh at Assassins.

I've yet to really find much use for Pull at all though. I can think of some really good setups with it, especially with a Warrior, but the problem I have with it is that it's pretty much trash until you upgrade it's range.

Yeah Gravitic Ring is mental but if I aim the "bulge" at the centre of the desired target, it tends to crap out and make a horribly loud noise. During this time I can't seem to reach the target and it cannot be attacked.

Gravitic Ring not only slows baddies to a crawl but if they are in the centre or very close to it, they don't even attack. Pull of the Abyss is highly situational I agree. I used to use it alot with Gravitic to slow enemies, then pull them close to the centre for a mega Walking Bomb. However, theres alot of point requirements for the Walking Bomb upgrades and now I don't think its worth it. I'd rather go with Petrify, Stone Fist etc and upgrades than have to sink 5 points in the Spirit tree since these spells have more utility. That and I'm tired of Pull crapping out and pushing everything away from the target. My walking bomb then escapes and blows up my whole party. WELP.

[SuicidalBaby]

Only use the bomb after group lockdown conditions are satisfactory. Glyph of Paralysis can assist with containment. Only upgrade damage portion of WB.