367 réponses à ce sujet

[Ace Attorney]

WelshWarden wrote...

News on sustainables that makes them even more stupidly powerful.

They work multiplicatively meaning that you are not in fact limited to how many sustainables you are running. Tested on both Merril and myself by giving us all the sustainable abilities at the same time and having them all active at the same time. This ups Merril's powerlevel considerably since she can run her unique sustainables plus all the others instead of having to choose. This also means that Spirit healer becomes a little better looking as you don't have to wonder where the mana is gonna come from for healing aura so you don't have to choose to weaken yourself if you need to throw out a quick revive if things go to pot.

This means that the sustainables list for Merril looks like this
Blood of the first
Wrath of the Ehlvayn
Elemental weapons
Arcane Shield with upgrade for elemental resist boost
Rock Armour

For Hawke you get all the ones listed + Healing aura if you go Spirit healer as your second spec.

This effectively turns your Merril into an extreme tank as you can goad enemies onto her while using ensnare to inflict large damage and keep aggro.

Are you a PC player? My Hawke Mage can empty his mana bar with sustainable spells. If they where multiplicative, he should never have an empty mana bar.

[WelshWarden]

I'm on 360. You end up with around 1% of your mana bar left with every sustainable up. It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't meant to work this way but it currently does.

[WelshWarden]

Gah on iPhone so can't edit te above. It appears to be a side effect of blood magic that allows you to do this. If you activate it first you can stack all of the sustainables but if you activate it last you can't.

[Ruben Thomas]

So I decided to start a new mage.

i56.tinypic.com/9s9emr.jpg

i56.tinypic.com/24e6gs7.jpg

I guess I got lucky, I also find it amusing they cost different amounts, when they're identical.

[ShadowPlay 14]

Can I ask where your supposed to put your attribute points at lower levels? Are you meant to be putting one in con and the rest in Mag, or am I missing something obvious?

[Ruben Thomas]

ShadowPlay 14 wrote...

Can I ask where your supposed to put your attribute points at lower levels? Are you meant to be putting one in con and the rest in Mag, or am I missing something obvious?

Some people like going 2:1 magic and constitution, foregoing most gear in the process.

Most seem more comfortable boosting willpower too though, at least enough so that you can wear the high end gear with various +attribute gear.

You should definitely put points in both magic and constitution if you are a blood mage though, that there seems to be general consensus about

[dfscott]

WelshWarden wrote...

News on sustainables that makes them even more stupidly powerful.

They work multiplicatively meaning that you are not in fact limited to how many sustainables you are running. Tested on both Merril and myself by giving us all the sustainable abilities at the same time and having them all active at the same time. This ups Merril's powerlevel considerably since she can run her unique sustainables plus all the others instead of having to choose. This also means that Spirit healer becomes a little better looking as you don't have to wonder where the mana is gonna come from for healing aura so you don't have to choose to weaken yourself if you need to throw out a quick revive if things go to pot.

This means that the sustainables list for Merril looks like this
Blood of the first
Wrath of the Ehlvayn
Elemental weapons
Arcane Shield with upgrade for elemental resist boost
Rock Armour

For Hawke you get all the ones listed + Healing aura if you go Spirit healer as your second spec.

This effectively turns your Merril into an extreme tank as you can goad enemies onto her while using ensnare to inflict large damage and keep aggro.

I've been doing this with Merrill as well, but I discovered if she turns off Blood of the First (which I have her do via tactics if her health gets too low), I won't be able to turn it back on.  I get "insufficient mana" on the tooltip and it doesn't activate.  However, if I turn off Elemental Weapons, then I can turn on Blood of the First, and then turn Elemental Weapons back on.  Not sure why that works and the other way doesn't.

I haven't figured out how to do this via tactics yet so I just keep an eye on her and micro her when it happens.

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Rogue & Warrior CCC assumed for all builds: 

Primal + Force Mage base:

1. Mind Blast
2. Chain Lightning
3. Stone Armor
4. Heal
5. Horror

I'm starting a new mage using this method and at 5th level I was doing Isabella's quest in the Chantry (the one you do in the demo -- can't remember the name).  I found that just about everything resisted my Horror, my Mind Blasts got resisted about 50% of the time, and at the end I ended up kiting the mini-boss for about 10 min while Isabella and my dog chipped away at him ever so slowly (her damage during that encounter is just pitiful).  

Is this just the nature of this encounter and/or a low-level force mage in general?  After playing a 2h warrior and a rogue archer, I'm a bit discouraged, especially since Merrill rocks the house.   I know you said CCC's are expected, and I had Aveline and Varric but they died early in the fight.

Modifié par dfscott, 28 mars 2011 - 06:00 .

[blueyedsoul]

dfscott wrote...

I've been doing this with Merrill as well, but I discovered if she turns off Blood of the First (which I have her do via tactics if her health gets too low), I won't be able to turn it back on.  I get "insufficient mana" on the tooltip and it doesn't activate.  However, if I turn off Elemental Weapons, then I can turn on Blood of the First, and then turn Elemental Weapons back on.  Not sure why that works and the other way doesn't.

I haven't figured out how to do this via tactics yet so I just keep an eye on her and micro her when it happens.

This is true for Hawke and Blood Magic as well. It makes me wonder if the game tries to see the secondary pool that Blood Magic (and Blood of the First) unlocks as available for Sustained spells, but never actually dips into it.

[SuicidalBaby]

WelshWarden wrote...

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Rogue & Warrior CCC assumed for all builds: 

Primal + Force Mage base:

1. Mind Blast
2. Chain Lightning
3. Stone Armor
4. Heal
5. Horror

I'm starting a new mage using this method and at 5th level I was doing Isabella's quest in the Chantry (the one you do in the demo -- can't remember the name).  I found that just about everything resisted my Horror, my Mind Blasts got resisted about 50% of the time, and at the end I ended up kiting the mini-boss for about 10 min while Isabella and my dog chipped away at him ever so slowly (her damage during that encounter is just pitiful).  

Is this just the nature of this encounter and/or a low-level force mage in general?  After playing a 2h warrior and a rogue archer, I'm a bit discouraged, especially since Merrill rocks the house.   I know you said CCC's are expected, and I had Aveline and Varric but they died early in the fight.

If the original post is followed you would have ended up using the money guide to start your game, giving you the Bone Pit and Sundermount before this encounter. Leaving you well on your way to level 7 with a ccc possible from Aveline Shield Bash or Carver auto-attack. Gathering group members comes after laying the groundwork for improved gold revenues.

That paticular encounter has a set level for its enemies. Making your spells more likely to be resisted because of a lower magic level.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 28 mars 2011 - 09:51 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Concerning Sustaind Abilities: from the original post

Sustaind Abilities:
Mana? We don't need no stinking mana!
While you are gushing over your new powers, do not neglect a source of even more power! More power? Yes my son, more power. Suggested sustaind priority with-in 100% mana:Rock Armor, Heroic Aura, Elemental Weapons, Arcane Shield. see below

I will not suggest someone go beyond 100% simply because you can. In my view, this is another overlooked mechanic resulting from the rushed production of the game.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 03 avril 2011 - 06:17 .

[Johnsen1972]

nice guide thx :-)
Im a force mage atm, but I will obtain blood soon

[tonnactus]

Is Arcane Shield really worth it?(except for elemental resistances,but even then rings could be used)

[Johnsen1972]

it increases party defense 20% if you upgrade it. definitly worth it.

[SuicidalBaby]

tonnactus wrote...

Is Arcane Shield really worth it?(except for elemental resistances,but even then rings could be used)

Worth it in what sense?  If you were planning a solo run, yes of course.  Upgraded beyond the additional spell resistances? No. (see below)  Worth it in a sense that you want to feel more secure as a mage, sure.  It is not necessary to complete the game.

Johnsen1972 wrote...

it increases party defense 20% if you upgrade it. definitly worth it.

Actually it only increases party defense and resistances by 5%.  The tooltip is a lie.  Activate the sutstained and check your allies resistances.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 28 mars 2011 - 11:16 .

[AKOdin]

Yep, confirmed by Devs that the tooltip for that ability is wrong (Peter Thomas).

[tonnactus]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Is Arcane Shield really worth it?(except for elemental resistances,but even then rings could be used)

Worth it in what sense?  If you were planning a solo run, yes of course.  Upgraded beyond the additional spell resistances? No. (see below)  Worth it in a sense that you want to feel more secure as a mage, sure.  It is not necessary to complete the game.

20 percent defense didnt seem much and against bosses its far lower anyways(actually,defense didnt seem wo be worth it at all).Didnt see how it would help that much,even in a solo run.And even with high defense the rogues in the party are usually the first ones who go down.

Modifié par tonnactus, 29 mars 2011 - 12:06 .

[SuicidalBaby]

So, having answered your own question, what are your feelings on the matter at hand? Do you, you know... wanna do it? We can go around the corner, no one will see. It's a little flashy, but hey, its all good.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 29 mars 2011 - 02:33 .

[Graunt]

ShadowPlay 14 wrote...

Can I ask where your supposed to put your attribute points at lower levels? Are you meant to be putting one in con and the rest in Mag, or am I missing something obvious?

You're going to need 25+ WIL by ACT 3 anyway, and until level 14 (really more like level 16 - 17), having excessive CON doesn't really do much other than up your survivability against Assassins and the Rock Wraith.  Everyone has their own method, but for Nightmare I would go 2 MAG, 1 WIL and then 1/1/1 every other level until around level 10 or so, stopping points into MAG once it was at 24 and WIL at 21 for the Spiral Eye armor.

Also, on my third complete playthrough, trying to trim away all superfluous skills, I've found that I had absolutely no use at all for Grave Robber.  I had already come to the conclusion that One Foot In was a waste, but I had at least found a couple of fights where Grave actually did "something".  It's truly one of the most unnecessary abilities in the game, especially when you replace it with the superior Heal/Greater Heal with Grim Sacrifice.  There are literally only six "mandatory" Blood spells, the rest are for flavor, but are so situational that I don't feel they are ever worth it under any circumstance.

edit 2: Primeval Lyrium Rune increases the attack speed 31%, so yeah, spell spamming increases with that rune on

Hmm.  Lyrium Rune vs Devastation.  I ended up giving Aveline the Lyrium Rune for her Vague Blade (which worked great on "trash"...not so hot on bosses where I ended up using the sword you get from the Arishok...).

I stopped buying cantrips. Ring of Tranisitional power carry +4% fire
damage in addition to the blood stat. lower rate but worth every
silver. lowest 2 stat version Ive seen was 1.4 g

What was the base damage on that staff?

Are Transitional Power only +element% on top of the Blood Magic, or can they spawn health as well in the place of the damage modifier?  I've yet to see any BM ring with health on it, and that's a shame -- and makes no sense really.

Modifié par Graunt, 29 mars 2011 - 07:53 .

[SuicidalBaby]

epic brain fart

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 29 mars 2011 - 08:30 .

[Graunt]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Yeah Grave Robber is left to those people not comfortable draining their tank. One should never get Sacrifice and Grave Robber. It's either or, not both. If you pick up Grave Robber, One Foot In would be manditory so you can gain life from any target, not just the dead ones. This would also increase the tanks survivability from lack of being a battery, but too each their own.

I actually consider Grim + Heal (I always use heal directly after a Sac) to be all around much higher for group survivability.  Even better if you take Greater Heal, but it's not necessary.  Sure, that's three total skill points vs two, yet you also have the option of healing anyone else as well as a backup (including yourself).  10% health returned is a complete joke when there's barely any enemies left, and it's especially bad if it's on an encounter where you really need to be far away from whatever is left.

Modifié par Graunt, 29 mars 2011 - 08:06 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Its 10% for each dead or alive. It is viable IMO as I have used it. Without One Foot In it will be as limiting as you are describing. I have had no real issue using it all on its own.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 29 mars 2011 - 08:22 .

[Graunt]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Its 10% for each dead or alive. It is viable IMO as I have used it. Without One Foot In it will be as limiting as you are describing. I have had no real issue using it all on its own.

It only works once on any particular corpse though correct?  Or can you use it again on the same pile of corpses if the fight drags on long enough for multiple uses?  I also don't really like having to go out of my way to run clear across the field just to syphon a single corpse or two (or enemies) when I could instead be killing them. The radius of the ability is just awful too.  You can literally be right in the middle of a massacre, and only drain 2-3 corpses.

It's just way too limiting, especially when it has a 12% longer cooldown than Heal and it's also 125% longer than Sacrifice.  This is also why I wouldn't even bother with reaping the benfits from Death Vortex unless there was just no other alternative, even if that skill was "free".  To each their own though.

Modifié par Graunt, 29 mars 2011 - 08:49 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Corpses are consumed like Death Syphon/Vortex. Living enemies can be drained repeatedly and then again on their death.  It really isn't about corpses though, its abou the 2-3 that surround you giving 20-30% health.  I've gotten into a pack of 6 before with out risk.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 29 mars 2011 - 11:08 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

About your build, SuicidialBaby, can replace Force with Spirit Healer and some supportive spells, and it would be pretty much my build I made to play without Anders cause of cuttie Merrill.

Here's how I played it. It's nothing about being a specialist, but pretty much a headquarters of party, where I control all the course of battle without constantly clicking on people to do my orders. And if someone (or everyone) dies cause I was busy opening another can of beer, my guy just shouts "Back to yer feet, lazy arses!", and everyone continues fighting.
Also, there is +10 constitution bonus and 100 health regeneration so I only ended up with about +2 blood magic items (a ring and gloves) without any harm. I also yawned at 3-4 enemies attacking me and Meredith's sword to my stomach.
Merrill was a hexer/arcane mage. Fenris/Carver gave me STAGGER. Varric was just about damage.

I think a simple picture sums up everything better than text: pic.rapidshare.ru/1760808
Level 24 here.
I have my spells in three categories.
Damage: Frost Spells (these are actually for flavor only, did't know where to put loose points to make my mage do a little more in front lines. I stopped being afraid of it after I got my Spirit Healer health-passive), Stonefist, Chainlightning, Hemorrhage - pretty self explanatory, I guess.
Control: Horror (unupgraded) as a point-wonder spell, Glyph of Paralysis (Upgraded, I actually start every combat by placing green marker in front of my party), Petrify (self explanatory again)
Support: Heal (not upgraded, I think Horror+Heal should be starting spells for any Nightmare build, actually), Aura of Courage, Haste (the awesome spell. with Sandal's rune can hit them with staff to the face, repeat), Mass Heal + "Raise Dead" - spells for lazy guys like me who prefer to continue battle instead F9'ing it. I think Mass Heal is upgraded cause upgrading revive is stupid. The goal was to grab Spirit Healer 6 points bonus.

How to play: Glyph of Paralysis -> Party buffs up -> Haste -> Stagger them -> Hemorrhage -> Double Chain Lightnings. If baddie rogues -> Control spells -> double fisting (sounds scary, huh?)/freezing. If everything is bad -> Revive, Heal -> Start again.
I always played with Blood Magic on from about second part of the game.
When all the spells are on cooldown, I switch to spirit healer's aura.
If somehow (I don't know how, you should be the one strange chum to actually do this) you end up without health to cast, it's easy for me and Merrill both shut off blood magic -> group heal -> and show goes on..

Stats: Regular I guess, 1/1/1 Magic Willpower Constitution till Willpower hits 27-31 for items, bonus stats from books went to Magic. I made some respecs later to tweak with my HP. I ended up with about 27 basic Willpower. With items, my magic is 67, while constitution is 53. With items, it's 400+ hp. My Fenris had 250 hp. Gee, I can *tank*.
Items: Health regenerates pretty fast, and with large health pool, I only used Mark of the Fallen and Hands of Fate gloves.

That's it. Nothing fancy, but it got the job done, and pretty easy, without mashing buttons or fear for breaking the "character chain" (warrior falls -> rogue falls -> all support falls). I only had problems with Hybris, but twas cause I never fought him on my first playthrough.

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 29 mars 2011 - 02:11 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Here is what I am considering for the base build for my soon to be Blood Force Mage. She is at level 11 now with the mage escort quest left and the deep roads expedition so I'll have to make my decision soon.


Act 1: Tome of Technique (+1 talent) : Hubert’s Fine Goods, Hightown
Black Emporium: Elixir of Arcane Technique (+1 talent, Mages only)

Respec to the below at level 11: (Assumes Act 1 Tome + Black Emporium Elixir bought)

Chain Lightning (Requires Level 2)
Rock Armor (Requires Level 3)
Chain Reaction (Requires Level 6)
Spirit Bolt (Requires Level 2)
Walking Bomb (Requires Level 4)
Spirit Strike (Requires Level 6)
Force Mage (Requires Level 7)
Fist of the Maker (Requires Level 7)
Unshakable (Requires Level 8)
Telekinetic Burst (Requires Level 8)
Gravitic Ring (Requires Level 10)
Heal
Glyph of Paralysis (Requires Level 4)
Glyph of Binding (Requires Level 8)

Level 12: Save point (or spend them  and respec again at level 14)
Level 13: Save point

Blood Mage (Requires Level 14)
14.Blood Magic (Requires Level 7)
14.Sacrifice (Requires Level 9)
14.Grim Sacrifice (Requires Level 13)
15.Hemorrhage (Requires Level 13)
16.Paralyzing Hemorrhage (Requires Level 15)

If the Act 2: Tome of Technique (+1 Talent) : Ilen's Crafts, Sundermount is bought by level 15 the base build can be done at that level for maximum blood mage goodness.