260 réponses à ce sujet

[NedPepper]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

Anders = Magneto from the X-Men. Sorta. That's my succint answer.

I have a problem with that.

Magneto is a leader of an organization that operates worldwide. Plus he represents a large group of mutants (at some point, I think he attracted majority mutant opinion). Furthermore, he has some sort of plan in mind and demonstrated that he is a competent leader when he established the nation of Genosha. In other words, Magneto, despite arrogant tantrums every once in a while, has some political competence and can actually claim to represent a large number of mutants. 

Anders has neither. He has no plan in mind and no credibility. I doubt any mage has even heard of him. He is not a leader, has no political / practical qualifications and he represents no one but himself. And he is very probably an abomination who can't control himself. On what basis does he think he is qualified to make a choice like that to all mages? 

Magneto might exagerrates when he thinks he can speak for all mutants, but at least he has some basis for doing it.

Magneto had to start somewhere.  For him it was trying to blow up a military base in the first X-Men.  If you let Anders live, I'm pretty sure he's now famous or infamous for being the guy to finally strike back at the templars.  He's probably loved or hated through out Thedas by different people. 

And I said, "Sorta."  I know there are differences, but what I was implying is that there is more to Anders than just being a sociopath.  Look at his life, look at Magneto's life, and you can see why he might have made such a drastic decision.

[NedPepper]

GranitemonkeyX wrote...

DrZagreus wrote...

The Chantry sat back and did nothing when the Knight Commander was abusing her position and destroying the minds of innocent mages. Meredith was insane and even though the mages begged the chantry to resolve this issue they sat back and did nothing.  The Chantry blames the mages for every bad thing that happens in Thedas and probably would like nothing more, then to see the mage blight put to death.

Anders had to die because Sebastian threatened to destroy Kirkwall with his armies if he wasn't killed for what he did and let's not forget a martyr is more valuable than a living person it gives people reason's to fight on.

I loved what they did with Anders in Dragon Age 2 no longer was he Alistair 2.0 he had his own character and became a create character.

He is definitly his own character now. Anyhow Anders doesnt have to die, you can choose to side with him. If you don't Anders is still a coward for not fighting for what he claims to care so much about. 

Bottomline he is all talk and no walk. If he doesnt want Sebastion to rally his armies then at least try to kill him: you either die as originally planned and he doesnt attack or he dies and he can't lead anything then. He just ends it so passively its impossible to respect him
 

But that's the tragedy.  Anders, without Justice, would have never been a guy to do this.  He hates himself even though he felt compelled to do so.  How much is Justice and how much is Anders will be an interesting place to go from here.  

And I personally told Sebastian to f-off.  Self righteous noble brat.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Magneto already was the head of an organization by that point. And he had a plan. I see no political or any other kind of qualifications in Anders. He even says he is not the leader the mages need. If he admits that, then he should just worry about himself and wait for that leader to come. And I'd say Magneto suffered way more than Anders.

But yes I agree. Anders is not a sociopath.

[Urbanus Venator]

David Gaider wrote...
As for the other changes, we certainly did change his voice actor. The fact that he is no longer the same character, however, is because people change-- and he, in particular, has been through a lot since joining with Justice. He always had that streak of hatred towards the Circle. He just felt powerless to do anything about it.

If someone doesn't like the direction we take a character, however-- oh well. Wouldn't be the first time.

You changed his voice actor?! How the hell did I not notice that...

[Ghozt66]

Dont blame Anders.I blame it all on Flemeth....

[Melca36]

I think it depends on how you roleplay your character

In one game my mage killed him.................


In my last game, I let him live and ran off with him. Hawke grew up as an apostate all her life. She lost everyone and she got fed up with being considered evil.

Its funny how mages are to be feared but yet they are still needed when it comes to healing and such.

The Grand Cleric is not a total innocent...she didn't even flinch when Patrice was killed.

Also, people need to read the codex on the Divine...

There is so much more to the Chantry that WE DO NOT KNOW ABOUT. Varric even said the Templars started to rebel.

[NedPepper]

Urbanus Venator wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
As for the other changes, we certainly did change his voice actor. The fact that he is no longer the same character, however, is because people change-- and he, in particular, has been through a lot since joining with Justice. He always had that streak of hatred towards the Circle. He just felt powerless to do anything about it.

If someone doesn't like the direction we take a character, however-- oh well. Wouldn't be the first time.

You changed his voice actor?! How the hell did I not notice that...

I wonder why they changed the voice actor...must be an internal thing.  The original guy seemed to do a great job in Awakenings.  But I have no real complaints with the new guy either.  May explain the disconnect people feel, though.

[wyandell26]

I literally had the same reaction the first playthrough, but Anders is still Anders he is just much more vocal and willing to act, the only real reason I thought the move was BS was because in the end of Awakening he loved being a warden, and goes to the circle to give a lecture of darkspawn or some bs, and then goes back to the wardens

Then he says he leaves because he hates the wardens, but combined with Justice I feel like his focus on killing darkspawn would have been more acute than his concern for mages, especially considering justice is never ending (according to isabella) and neither are the darkspawn

Oh and who cares if he's gay, bi, or whatever

Modifié par wyandell26, 22 mars 2011 - 08:39 .

[wyandell26]

nedpepper wrote...

GranitemonkeyX wrote...

DrZagreus wrote...

The Chantry sat back and did nothing when the Knight Commander was abusing her position and destroying the minds of innocent mages. Meredith was insane and even though the mages begged the chantry to resolve this issue they sat back and did nothing.  The Chantry blames the mages for every bad thing that happens in Thedas and probably would like nothing more, then to see the mage blight put to death.

Anders had to die because Sebastian threatened to destroy Kirkwall with his armies if he wasn't killed for what he did and let's not forget a martyr is more valuable than a living person it gives people reason's to fight on.

I loved what they did with Anders in Dragon Age 2 no longer was he Alistair 2.0 he had his own character and became a create character.

He is definitly his own character now. Anyhow Anders doesnt have to die, you can choose to side with him. If you don't Anders is still a coward for not fighting for what he claims to care so much about. 

Bottomline he is all talk and no walk. If he doesnt want Sebastion to rally his armies then at least try to kill him: you either die as originally planned and he doesnt attack or he dies and he can't lead anything then. He just ends it so passively its impossible to respect him
 

But that's the tragedy.  Anders, without Justice, would have never been a guy to do this.  He hates himself even though he felt compelled to do so.  How much is Justice and how much is Anders will be an interesting place to go from here.  

And I personally told Sebastian to f-off.  Self righteous noble brat.

Sebastian is the anti-Shale

[Raltar]

I like the new Anders more than the old Anders. But they are nothing alike. So much so that if you didn't tell me he was Anders from Awakening, I never would have known.

[TurboTwistedFire]

I actually thought Anders' change enhanced the story. I loved Anders in Awakening. He got a laugh out of me on several occasions. So watching him descend into insanity and depression was heart-breaking for me. There were several moments, particularly in Act 1 when you see the old Anders. The first moment that springs to mind is when he remembers his "old friend dragging him around on adventures" (I'm guessing the Warden) and the "A wizard did it" comment. He also had a throw back moment if you're romancing him and Hawke makes the "Want a sandwich?" comment while he's trying to be all romantic. He also seems to enjoy hanging out at the pub with Varric, throwing back drinks and playing (or losing at) cards.

You start to watch him go down hill from there. The first time I remember it really striking me that he was losing it was when you talk to him after completing his quest in Act 2. He's obsessively tearing threw his stuff mumbling to himself, "Trash, trash, trash, keep, trash, keep, keep, don't need that." That's when it dawned on him that he has such little control.

Really my only objection to Anders' change was his change of voice. But alas, too late to go back on that now.

Modifié par TurboTwistedFire, 22 mars 2011 - 08:45 .

[rma2110]

Maybe I am the only who blames Justice\\Vengeance. Anders even says that he loses more and more of himself every day. I think Anders had enough hate in him to turn a spirit of Justice into a demon called Vengeance.

In other words, I do think Anders became an abomination. I also find his distaste of Blood mages and his judgment of Merill a little funny and hypocritical.

[Eva1346]

S**t happens. People change. Oldest story in the book.
Don't get me wrong I LOOOVED Awekening Anders and when I met him in DA2 I was upset. Not because Bioware "butchered" his character but because the poor guy has been to hell and back and then some. His character change was absolutely relate-able (is that a word?)... Uh oh guess what: Terrorists aren't born terrorists. Sometime along the line something happens that pushes them over the edge.
I wanna say: Kudos Bioware for transforming Anders so well.

[Eva1346]

Ghozt66 wrote...

Dont blame Anders.I blame it all on Flemeth....

HAAAA!!! Love it! (I do to btw, along with the gas prices)

[sami jo]

Edited to remove oddly truncated double post.

Modifié par sami jo, 22 mars 2011 - 11:53 .

[sami jo]

I find the change in Anders completely believable. Justice, while I loved the character, was a bit bloody-minded long before he merged with Anders and became a spirit of vengeance. Anders clearly hated the circle in Awakenings. He made no bones about how much he hated the system. Several of his anti-templar rants are simply longer versions of ones he gave in Awakenings He joked more, but a lot of it was clearly done to deflect scrutiny--much like Alistair. He's just better at it than Alistair. Listen carefully when he talks about Mr. Wiggums-- it's clear how very hurt he was by being kept in solitary, it's clear how much he hated the circle, it's clear how much he hated the templars (cat turns into an abomination "but at least he took out several Templars first"). he didn't love being a Warden. He made it clear that he saw it a less repressive prison.

As for him being bi, that was even less surprising. He flirts pretty indiscriminately in Awakenings.

Anders character in DA2 is deeply troubled and no longer entirely human. it's sad and troubling, but very believable. I wouldn't say that I *like* it, but it is believable. It's too depressing for me to like.

[AlexXIV]

Well it is not out of character to change. And it is not out of character to find out you're not as straight (in sexuality terms) as you thought you were. I assume. Not that I could speak of experience. Most of my protagonists are female anyway, and in DA2 I don't feel like I am going to play a male hawke since ... it makes no difference. So I never really realized that Anders was into women in DA:A and into guys in DA2.

Also he feels pretty much like the old Anders, just less joking and more serious. Which I welcome. Sometimes people just try to be funny because they don't want to show that they are actually worried about something. Also, despite the fact that his action to blow up the chantry was an act of terrorism and many probably feel reminded on 9/11 (not sure if that was Bioware's intention) I have a hard time to see Anders as a real terrorist.

Terrorism is based, as the name says, on spreading fear, especially among civilians. And he doesn't just blow up a random civilian object, he does it to the symbol of everything that he holds responsible for the injustice towards his 'kind'. Maybe one act of terrorism makes you a terrorist. Like one act of thievery makes you a thief. Or it just makes you a guy who blows up a building to make a point when talking doesn't seem a viable option.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 22 mars 2011 - 11:34 .

[DorgenHexor]

From what I can tell, that is not even Anders, its his evil twin using magics and the excuse of "spirit" possesion for his actions. I say this because Act I should be taking place less then a year after the blight ends, meaning that Anders and Justice should both still be at Vigils Keep. And from what I remember both stuck around for a while after the ending of DA:A meaning Anders would not of had time to take a shipto Kirkwall. Or should I file that under the "for the sake of the plot" pile just like how Merril has the same Eluvian in her little house that the Warden encounters in Withc Hunt back in the same ruins that Merril took hers from.

[demonpig]

he was the best this was just sad

[Zan Mura]

maegi46 wrote...Thoughts?

He seems close enough to the same to me. His goals are the same, only methods have become more extreme.  He's not psychotic, obviously, only situations of emotional stress bring out the spirit of Justice in him, which stresses him even more. He's also not gay, but bi / straight depending on which sex and how you play as. Yes, there IS a difference.

Personally I thought he was ok in Awakening, but there wasn't a whole lot of character development in that as it was. I like him a lot more in DA2 though, because characters with flaws and real goals tend to be more interesting to me. And I think the whole Justice "possession" aspect works rather well.

Modifié par Zan Mura, 22 mars 2011 - 12:20 .

[MICHELLE7]

I didn't play Awakenings so I don't have anything to compare the "new" Anders to but I liked the character. He wasn't one dimensional like some and I didn't see him as a sociopath at all. I thought the actions on the chantry was more the doings of Justice anyway.

I see him as a tragic figure. He was taken to the circle where he repeatedly tried to escape and finally succeeded by joining the Grey Wardens where once again he is held captive by his circumstances. Maybe he can leave the Wardens but he can't escape what becoming a Warden did to him.

He's angry at his lot in life and can't do anything about it and thinks that by joining Justice maybe he can change that...make things different for himself and others mages like him but it just leads to more bondage and captivity for him as Justice slowly begins to take over his life.

The one thing Anders wants...freedom... is the one thing that really stays just out of his reach no matter how hard he tries. He can even be set free at the end of the game but he's always going be held captive by Justice. Perhaps that's why he didn't mind dying at the end...maybe he decided the only way he would ever truly be free was if he was dead.

I thought the character was well written but I can understand where others may have grown attached to the Anders of Awakenings and may be disappointed.

[Kelleth]

Ander's died in Awakening... The thing that is in Dragon age 2, is NOT Ander's, it's some cheap imitation of him.
I shall miss you Ander's, I will take care of Ser-Pounce-Alot.

[AlexXIV]

Kelleth wrote...

Ander's died in Awakening... The thing that is in Dragon age 2, is NOT Ander's, it's some cheap imitation of him.
I shall miss you Ander's, I will take care of Ser-Pounce-Alot.

Ah sweet denial

I am always telling myself that Hawke's mom didn't die and it all was just a bad dream or that Varric lied about it. I hope it works better for you than for me though, because it doesn't really work well for me.

[Mabari Owns High Dragon]

He is alot different then what he was in Awakenings.. Now I know people aren't gonna like this but there are just way too many gay options in this game.. I mean I know there are people that call for it bu is it really necessary to totally kill a character just to appeal to a group of people? When he starting flirting with me at the beginning I wanted to punch him. I settled for turning him down...

As for his bonding with Justice, I can understand that. Hes a good person trying to do good in a world where if the Templars caught him he'd be thrown into prison. I think he may be a bit misguided in his beliefs but hes not necessarily wrong. I don't hate him but I think he was changed way too much.

Modifié par Mabari Owns High Dragon, 22 mars 2011 - 12:36 .

[Big I]

I dislike what they did with Anders. They took two great character (Justice, a noble spirit who comes to appreciate the beauty of the material world, and Anders, a happy go lucky free spirit) and made one bad one (Anders, crazy abomination). It's not even just what he does in Act 3; he's annoying the rest of the game. He's a ****** to everyone and all he ever talks about is one thing, mage freedom. In almost all companion dialogue he's rude and belittling, and then in Act 3 he goes crazy. When I finished Origins I was intereseted in where the companion characters would end up, and to some extent that's true about DA2. However, I'd be more than happy if Anders is never mentioned anywhere ever again.


What's really impressive about Anders is his time management. Assuming he joined the Wardens in Amaranthine, over the course of one year he:

- escaped from the Circle in Fereldan
- met the Warden Commander/Hero of Fereldan
- joined the Grey Wardens in Amaranthine
- met Justice
- helped deal with the Architect and the Mother
- was possessed by Justice
- abandoned the Grey Wardens
- fled to Kirkwall
- met Hawke
- helped Hawke with his Deep Roads expedition

Assuming any of his Awakening epilogue is correct, he might even have found the time between defeating the Mother and abandoning the Wardens to give a lecture to the Circle.