260 réponses à ce sujet

[David Gaider]

Unichrone wrote...
You have a very good point, but is this really the reason why the character was changed?

The reason? The reason we wanted to develop his character that way was because that's where we wanted to take him. I'm not sure we need more reasons than that, do we?

Or are you using meta-game, real-life principles to justify arbitrary in-game nuances?

I'm not justifying anything. It doesn't get more arbitrary than the decision of what a creator does with their character-- we are, in fact, the arbiters.

And if he changed so much in the span of one year, how come he changed so little in the span of nine?

Seven.

And he changed so much in that first year because he was possessed by Justice, an event that obviously was not replicated afterwards. And I would say that he did indeed change over the course of the game. Jennifer did a fantastic job with him.

If you disagree, like I said before-- oh well. Sorry you feel that way. There tend to be a thousand opinions regarding any story about how people feel it could be done better. You'll find most of them on these forums. (And that's not to say I don't agree with some of them-- I always look back on whatever we done and get the shoulda-coulda-woulda's, that's just how it is.)

Modifié par David Gaider, 22 mars 2011 - 05:54 .

[Suron]

David Gaider wrote...

MyKingdomCold wrote...
Plus, unless I'm mistaken you couldn't romance him or anyone in Awakening. He may have said he likes women in Awakening, but that doesn't mean he isn't bisexual. Or maybe Justice made him bisexual.

 Whatever someone chooses to perceive him as is up to them.

how in the WORLD can you say that when he (and all LI's in DA2) will romance ANY GENDER..that is BISEXUAL by definition..there is no "percieving" him as one or the other..he's bisexual.

coupled with your comment that his sexuality isn't tied to Hawke's gender....again...how can you even state this? it's a little...dumb don't ya think.

he's bisexual..end of discussion.  end of perception.

[Eva1346]

Yaaawn... Good morning every one..... Are we really still talking about this???

[Beerfish]

What I'm wondering is did the story change to suit the change in Anders or was there need for a character to do what Anders did and BioWare decided to use Anders for that purpose?

[Sanguinerin]

My personal style of play conflicted a lot with Anders, that's certain. My characters usually lean toward moral and neutral, meaning avoiding conflict, doing what they can to help, etc. It was difficult to like Anders as the story progressed, but he definitely changed throughout the game. His little descent into madness, as I see it, at the end was a shock. From the beginning, I could see that he was--damaged, perhaps?--but not quite that intense. His last personal quest began to worry me a lot.

However, saying that I dislike Anders is more so an indication of my disagreement with his actions. I think the character was wonderfully written. I don't like what the character does, but I like how well he overall was written in. I would have loved to see him change from Awakening to where we meet him in DA2, but I still found it to be drastic enough from beginning of the game until the end.

[sevalaricgirl]

Shadowknight12 wrote...

maegi46 wrote...

Shadowknight12 wrote...

maegi46 wrote...

[...] and gay. 

Correction: Bisexual.

That's all.

Bisexual means he likes men and women. My Hawke was a man and he made advances and flirted with me. Never saw him express any affection or desire to a woman. Therefore in my game he certainly exhibited gay tendencies. I don't care or discriminate against gay people. My point was that he was very much "straight" in Awakenings. People don't suddenly turn gay or bisexual. They either were to begin with or they were hetero. That's only one aspect of how he changed. Way to focus on that.

From Awakening:

Nathaniel: "You don't always wear robes, do you?"
Anders: "Not when I'm naked, I don't."

The tone of voice is crucial here, so I'm adding a youtube link:  around minute 1:11. Also, "Ser Pounce-a-lot" and his plethora of 'who's a little kitty?' moments. For the other half of bisexuality, I believe you've provided enough examples. In DA2, even if you play as a male, there is a party banter with Isabela in which it is implied that they slept together once. Mandatory link:  first banter, right from the start.

And yes, I'm focusing on this because everything else has been oversaid already. Yes, they changed him completely from Awakening. The official explanation is because he was possessed by Justice (who also changed into Vengeance). There's really nothing to discuss. Yes, his character was remade almost from scratch. There is an in-game reason for that. Whether that is satisfactory or not will vary from person to person.

Guess my hubby is bi then because he loves cats.  We have three of them and he's always talking sweetly to them and not only that, Anders is only gay if you are a male Hawke.  He shows no signs of being gay at all if you are a female Hawke.  Bioware handled that very well.  It's the same as Isabela and Merrill.  If you are a female Hawke, you can flirt with them.  Just don't.  They don't flirt with you, except Isabela of course, you have the option of flirting with them.

I also equate the chantry with the Roman church during the Dark Ages.  There was no way the Chantry was going to change anything the templars did.  They ran Kirkwall.  The only thing for mages to do, my Hawke included, was to start a holy war of their own.  Anders did it and rightfully so.  During the Dark Ages, the Roman church killed many, many people for no good reason.  The Chantry allows templars to kill mages for no good reasons or make them tranquil which really is the same as killing them.  To take away someone's emotions is a form of death or I could say a punishment worse than death and the templars did it for no good reason.  The Grand Cleric was more than happy to sit on her butt and allow the templars to do whatever they wanted until it was too late. 

Modifié par sevalaricgirl, 22 mars 2011 - 06:33 .

[The Angry One]

David Gaider wrote...

If you disagree, like I said before-- oh well. Sorry you feel that way. There tend to be a thousand opinions regarding any story about how people feel it could be done better. You'll find most of them on these forums. (And that's not to say I don't agree with some of them-- I always look back on whatever we done and get the shoulda-coulda-woulda's, that's just how it is.)

I demand an explanation for the lack of sexy earring.
I find this above all unacceptable!

[Alyka]

I never viewed Anders as soley being straight.Sure, he talks about settling down with the right woman in Awakening, but that doesn't necessarily mean he ONLY likes women.

My only gripe with Anders is his humor went from satirical (Awakening) to wry in DA2.I've said this in another thread, that maybe it was due to events/possession that his personality changed.The notion that "Justice made him gay" is silly IMO.I hardly think that a spirit of virtue is concerned with sexuality or preference thereof.

[The Angry One]

Anders talking about women in Awakening is really a non-issue. If he's bisexual he could just be taking the more "mainstream" angle when talking about sexuality.
Thedas may be more liberal than our world when it comes to it but in casual discussion the default is still heterosexual, like when Hawke's mother goes on about finding me a husband.

[_Aine_]

The Angry One wrote...

I demand an explanation for the lack of sexy earring.
I find this above all unacceptable!

Justice wasn't down with the bling. 

[Romanofski]

I don't know if it's been said but,

The big changing point for Anders was obviously losing Ser Poounce-A-lot,

[The Angry One]

Well that's another thing. Why would the Wardens complain about a gift from the Warden-Commander?
If they did why didn't Anders just go to the Warden-Commander and ask them to knock the Wardens into line?
And who takes a kitten into the Deep Roads anyway? Silly, silly man.

Modifié par The Angry One, 22 mars 2011 - 07:01 .

[ObserverStatus]

The Angry One wrote...

Well that's another thing. Why would the Wardens complain about a gift from the Warden-Commander?
If they did why didn't Anders just go to the Warden-Commander and ask them to knock the Wardens into line?
And who takes a kitten into the Deep Roads anyway? Silly, silly man.

Awakening's epilogue stated that the warden commander disappeared not long after the defeat of the mother.  The Warden Commander may have backed him up if he had found him.

[WhiteKnyght]

David Gaider wrote...
And he changed so much in that first year because he was possessed by Justice, an event that obviously was not replicated afterwards. And I would say that he did indeed change over the course of the game. Jennifer did a fantastic job with him.

It was interesting how Anders changed so much. I remembered him as a carefree joker who just wanted his freedom. Now he's a disturbed but generous(until he goes terrorist on the Chantry) character who rarely shows his old self. Its not a bad change. 

One thing I wonder is, what made him develop a dislike of the Grey Wardens? he never seemed to mind being one in Awakening and he had a lot more freedom than the Circle gave him. Was that because of Justice as well.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 22 mars 2011 - 07:09 .

[MJRick]

maegi46 wrote...

MJRick wrote...

Come back after you complete the game next time...

I did finish the game and that is part of the reason I am not happy with Anders. Blowing up the one neutral faction that might have helped find a peaceful solution and causing the right of Annulment to be called immediately was not a smart or good move to make "on the mages behalf" He appointed himself as some kind of saviour for all mages without thinking to ask them first or care about the consequences of his terrorist act. He brought only more hatred from an already close minded society towards mages by that one destructive act.

Ignoring that, and yeah that's hard to do, his character is NOTHING like the one we met and got to know in Awakenings.

So, come back when you learn to read a post and can comment and actually add to a discussion. Thanks.

Since when was the chantry a neutral faction? and the only reason the right of annulment went into affect was because merrdith is insane, and the reason he's nothing like he was in awakenings is because he's a new person know that him and justice joined. Try harder next time bro.

[The Angry One]

bobobo878 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Well that's another thing. Why would the Wardens complain about a gift from the Warden-Commander?
If they did why didn't Anders just go to the Warden-Commander and ask them to knock the Wardens into line?
And who takes a kitten into the Deep Roads anyway? Silly, silly man.

Awakening's epilogue stated that the warden commander disappeared not long after the defeat of the mother.  The Warden Commander may have backed him up if he had found him.

In my game, Alistair at 7 years after the events of DA:O refers to getting back to the Queen (the Warden) or the "ball and chain" as he put it (cheeky sod) soon, so obviously he's seen her recently.

[_Aine_]

distinguetraces wrote...

I had thought that Anders' Unfortunate Endgame Event could be forestalled by 100% Rivalry, but the wikia suggests that it's unavoidable. Which is right?

Actually THIS is the part that made me the most sad, that some endings are (seem) inevitable.  DAO had characters that, depending on your choices, had different endings.  I guess I missed that.  

IF there were even slim chances to change the end of this game... even through very difficult game-choice-dialogue-choice alchemy....

[Peterlinkdark11]

The Angry One wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Well that's another thing. Why would the Wardens complain about a gift from the Warden-Commander?
If they did why didn't Anders just go to the Warden-Commander and ask them to knock the Wardens into line?
And who takes a kitten into the Deep Roads anyway? Silly, silly man.

Awakening's epilogue stated that the warden commander disappeared not long after the defeat of the mother.  The Warden Commander may have backed him up if he had found him.

In my game, Alistair at 7 years after the events of DA:O refers to getting back to the Queen (the Warden) or the "ball and chain" as he put it (cheeky sod) soon, so obviously he's seen her recently.

Yeah, the warden was still present 7 years on after DA:), he/she dissapears around when cassandra interrogates Varric, or a little before that.

[Punahedan]

Romanofski wrote...

I don't know if it's been said but,

The big changing point for Anders was obviously losing Ser Poounce-A-lot,

Truer words have never been spoken.

[sth128]

Ander's change result from his joining with Justice. As for the sexual orientation, we know that Justice is totally gay. After all, Justice likes to be in other men, and they don't even have to be alive...

At least Anders still likes women...

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the epilogue of Awakening say that Anders "disappeared" if you left him to defend the keep instead of "dead"? It's the other guy who dies, you know, what's his name, son of the Rock Horror Show guy.

[AlexXIV]

Peterlinkdark11 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Well that's another thing. Why would the Wardens complain about a gift from the Warden-Commander?
If they did why didn't Anders just go to the Warden-Commander and ask them to knock the Wardens into line?
And who takes a kitten into the Deep Roads anyway? Silly, silly man.

Awakening's epilogue stated that the warden commander disappeared not long after the defeat of the mother.  The Warden Commander may have backed him up if he had found him.

In my game, Alistair at 7 years after the events of DA:O refers to getting back to the Queen (the Warden) or the "ball and chain" as he put it (cheeky sod) soon, so obviously he's seen her recently.

Yeah, the warden was still present 7 years on after DA:), he/she dissapears around when cassandra interrogates Varric, or a little before that.

But the Warden Commander had own stuff to deal with, in my case Leliana. Can't look after Anders cat all the time.

[Nathan Redgrave]

maegi46 wrote...

He was a great character in Awakenings. Funny, spirited. Loved WOMEN. Not crazy or any terrorist tendencies. He wanted freedom yes and he got that by joining the Grey Wardens. At least in my game he did. He was a trusted friend and someone you could depend on with your life. He was not joined with Justice. Justice possessed a dead grey warden...

Then in DA2 his voice is changed, the writer is changed and his character is a direct 180 from what he used to be. Now he's pyschotic , possessed and gay. A terrorist incident waiting to happen. Not amused and not happy with the changes at all. Thoughts?

He's not gay. He's bi. There is a difference, you know.

As for his character, yes, he's very different. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though. I thought it was well-executed.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 22 mars 2011 - 09:11 .

[Malanek]

I don't really get some of the angst in this thread. I'm guessing people really liked Anders in awakening and wanted to see more of the same character. That doesn't make his character in DA2 badly written, I thought he was brilliant and the change in personality is completely justified by the story. He is another tragic character, similar to Merill he had good, selfless intentions, but his plans backfired badly. I felt very sad for him.

[Camenae]

Hawkeyed Cai Li wrote...

Romanofski wrote...

I don't know if it's been said but,

The big changing point for Anders was obviously losing Ser Poounce-A-lot,

Truer words have never been spoken.

Win.