168 réponses à ce sujet

[DariusKalera]

Nimrodell wrote...

The entire story is settled in Kirkwall and Free Marches... don't you think it would have been strange to have areas that are settled in one city and around it as always different. Many things happen on Wounded Coast, its beaches and caves... it would be strange indeed to constantly have change in surroundings even tho u r actually in the same place (even Varric comments on it when u return to Wounded Coast for millionth time). Hawke is not traveler as your Warden - Hawke is not visiting places like Cadash thaig or Orzammar, or Denerim etc... so well, it actually works like in real life, my own city's been recycling surroundings for me for some 20 years now.

While yes, it is only in one city, they could have done so much with that one city but didn't.

Take Athkatla from BGII for example.  A fairly large portion of the game takes place in that city but there is so much to see and do that you don't notice it as much.  Waukeen's Promenade "feels" totally different than the Bridge District, the Bridge district differs from the Docks, which is different from the Slums, etc.

This isn't counting the sewers, the areas beneath the sewers, hidden hideouts, and everything else that got crammed into there.  You had theives guilds, clerical orders, and a paladin order that you could join.

That city had far, far more depth to it than Kirkwall did.

As for your city, if it is fair sized, I can guarentee you that if you actively went out exploring you would find someplace new everyday. 

[Redsuns_]

Sen4lifE wrote...

Vali wrote...

So I have just finished playing the game, and despite the great moments in the story telling, I am just amazed at how much of this game is just layers and layers of the same recycled stuff.

When I first heard the claims of the recycled environments, I was worried.
When I first heard about the small gigabyte size, I was worried.

But people dismissed those worries! Bioware told us the small size was due to them having found ways to "refine" their programming techniques to make the space more efficient. They said that claims of  recycled environments was simply the story letting you revisit those locations, and nothing more.

Bunch of stupid, stupid lies. I don't think I have ever felt this cheated on a game before.

Oh that cave in Sundermount? Hey, this cave is exactly like all the other dozen caves in the area, and even like the caves in other areas!
That mansion in Kirkwall? Once you've seen one, you've seen them all!
That tunnel with the exact same layout, the same size, the same crevasse with the exact same twists and turns and even foliage? Oh, you only visit those about 20 times throughout the game.
That apostate/ qunari/ theives/ mercenary hideout with the same wooden structures and walkways? With the same chest locations and hidden passages? 10+ times, at least.

Recycled maps in games have always been somewhat of a tolerable thing best kept to a minimum. I thought I was used to it. DA2 essentially slapped me in the face with its disregard to keep things fresh. I really felt almost speechless when I finished the game. It used the cheapest trick in the book shamelessly and it was still half the length of Origins. This flaw to me is to fatal that I don't even have the heart to finish pointing out the other bad aspects of this ridiculous game.

I think I'm done with DA, permanetly. I can't see myself doing another playthrough; one was painful enough. This will be my first time doing a single playthrough in a Bioware game.

All games do this.  Get your research out.

Bioware overdid it this time. The excessive recycled environments  and waves of enemies really screw up the immersion and fun factor of an rpg. 

[Dermain]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Nimrodell wrote...

The entire story is settled in Kirkwall and Free Marches... don't you think it would have been strange to have areas that are settled in one city and around it as always different. Many things happen on Wounded Coast, its beaches and caves... it would be strange indeed to constantly have change in surroundings even tho u r actually in the same place (even Varric comments on it when u return to Wounded Coast for millionth time). Hawke is not traveler as your Warden - Hawke is not visiting places like Cadash thaig or Orzammar, or Denerim etc... so well, it actually works like in real life, my own city's been recycling surroundings for me for some 20 years now.

Poor excuse.

Realistic or not, it's boring.

And you wanted a game about "realism"!

How odd.

[Pinback87]

I honestly don't think that people could complain about the recycled maps enough (NOT being sarcastic here). This one aspect has made me lose faith in the games Bioware is willing to put out.

People make arguments that everygame recycles, but this game actually just copied and pasted. Minimaps don't even change depending on what routes you can or can't take. Can't go down a branch of the cave? How can you tell? Well, someone was kind enough to do a perfect cement job blocking off that path but apparently didn't bother to mark it on your map!

Shuffle the trees around or move some dirt. I'm no expert at the technical aspects of it all, but this is unacceptable.

They didn't even stop at recycling the maps though, combat (aside from bosses) is the same. DA:O distinguished between fighting spiders (which would stop you every 2 seconds with webs and tackle you) and people (which would do people-esque things). DA2 doesn't make me feel like I'm fighting anything different.

Al Gore could learn a thing or two from this game I think.  Of course, my disatisfaction with this game is my own fault. I bought this game based upon previous Bioware talent against other people's experience with the game. I never thought I'd be saddened by a Bioware game...

Did Pong even recycle this poorly?

[Spooky81]

They're really "Dragon" down the quality of the game ahahahaha

[Pinback87]

Spooky81 wrote...

They're really "Dragon" down the quality of the game ahahahaha

I normally hate puns.... but I'll give you this one. lol

[DungeonLord]

OP, I agree with you 100%. The recycled environments are the result of completely lazy development. You'd expect more from the supposed leader in "Cinematic Gaming"

I loved the characters, but the environments (and other things) made the game seem so small and claustrophobic.

[Ravenmyste]

Cody211282 wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

What? That's not true, there were at least 2 unique mansions in hightown.

One is DLC and the other you live in, and how does that make up for going into the same cave 30 times?

There is a DLC mansion? I am sure the Black Emporium is a store and Sebby lives in the Chantry.

The quest you do for him involves a unique mansion, sorta sad they put more time into the DLC areas then the actaul game.

wrong cody there is no dlc mansions
 there have been no DLC yet for dragonage2  if you got the sig edition you got the exiled prince for free. so no there is none and there are actully 3 unique mansions..

one is the dupis,harrimon, and hawke's mansion,

[nubbers666]

acidproof wrote...

Yeah, I'm not sure I'd preorder another DA game. ME3 will probably the last Bioware made game I preorder. Honestly, I never thought I'd say that.

lol this was frist bioware game i ever pre ordered and the last

ill wait for game play vids and reviews from now on before i ever consider another bioware/Ea game<_<

[Ravenmyste]

and we all know why it feels rushed look whats coming on the 29th and 2 weeks after that me3 comes. i forgive them if they messed up a bit due they already pushed da2 back when it was originally supposed to launch..

due they had the new dlc and the me3 that's supposed to come out 2 weeks after that so they been busy with everything and trying to meet deadlines.

if they can fix half the bugs and make a good dlc for me2{since it will be the last dlc} then me3 comes, durring that  2 weeks i expect that the da2 game will be fixed and some new things and tweaking some of the tree spells, some tree spells are really really weak and or does really nothing but look good for special effects i.e force mage

Modifié par Ravenmyste, 22 mars 2011 - 09:07 .

[DraCZeQQ]

Yea its recycled as hell
/thread

[ruttunenn]

Sen4lifE wrote...

Vali wrote...

So I have just finished playing the game, and despite the great moments in the story telling, I am just amazed at how much of this game is just layers and layers of the same recycled stuff.
...

All games do this.  Get your research out.

Yes all games recycle their art ASSETS , but almost allways they dont recycle whole levels in DA2 style.
Recycling art assets but still creating unique level layouts  = getting the game size down but creating world that feels alive.
Recycling whole levels without changing anything = lazy

Also DA2 does not seem to have even that many art assets , the levels are made from blocks , the level design is 
uninventive.
The few WHOLE levels that are recycled dont change in anyway they just lock few different doors.

So yes this is pretty much the worst case scenario of recycling in any game. 

[nicethugbert]

Well, Carver, why don't you write your own damn game then???????????

[AkiKishi]

Why did they not just write a random dungeon routine ? Diablo did it and how old is that?

[DotStain]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Why did they not just write a random dungeon routine ? Diablo did it and how old is that?

Heard that the random levels are also part of Diablo III... but i think its really really complicated to create random 3D levels!

I still don´t get it why they use recycled maps while they had the time to rebuild elf and qunari meshes and all that new armor stuff...

[MaglorArcanist]

Diablo random dungeons are another thing.
But the problem is probabily the editor choiced, and the problem to make the areas, but damm, you have a developer team for make the damm area.
And how is the problem to write some routines to weather and people? the witcher has make them with the damm aurora engines, why you bioware can't do this?

Pushed game is pushed, but somethings are a old problem of the bioware.

[Gaius Octavian]

Sen4lifE wrote...

Yes, and in those levels, they recycle all of their models such as trees in the scenery, buildings, textures, skyboxes, etc.

Shuffling things around is the same as recycling.  They do not start from scratch every level, no one does this.

It happens to be more noticable in an RPG due to the size.  Play an MMORPG, they are much, much worse about it.


Please people, educate yourself a little in how a game's enviroment is designed before you keep spamming the forum with "DA2 HAS RESYKLS!"

I sense butthurt in your post.

Modifié par Gaius Octavian, 22 mars 2011 - 10:39 .

[TaHol]

DotStain wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Why did they not just write a random dungeon routine ? Diablo did it and how old is that?

Heard that the random levels are also part of Diablo III... but i think its really really complicated to create random 3D levels!

I still don´t get it why they use recycled maps while they had the time to rebuild elf and qunari meshes and all that new armor stuff...

Hellgate London had (and still has, of course, single player exists) random levels in 3D, dx10 glory. Can't be that complicated. But then all the loot is random too.

Modifié par TaHol, 22 mars 2011 - 11:04 .

[Hawke123]

Sen4lifE wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...

All games do this.  Get your research out.

Oh not like this they don't hell at least FPS's have the comon decentcy to make new maps for every level.

Yes, and in those levels, they recycle all of their models such as trees in the scenery, buildings, textures, skyboxes, etc.

Shuffling things around is the same as recycling.  They do not start from scratch every level, no one does this.

It happens to be more noticable in an RPG due to the size.  Play an MMORPG, they are much, much worse about it.


Please people, educate yourself a little in how a game's enviroment is designed before you keep spamming the forum with "DA2 HAS RESYKLS!"

Yes all games recycle certain parts, such as trees and bushes. But DA2 is one of the few games were it recycles A COMPLETE MAP. This isn't subtle like using the same model tree in a different area, this is using the same cave, to represent 20 other caves, which are in different locations and have different names. Its stupid.

[FabMan_UK]

OP has a very valid point, it is recyled too far. For Oblivion dungeons and caves they had segments of enviroments (much like other games) and then built up a map using those parts. For Dragon Age 2 it's always the exact same cave with just doors blocked off. Why has someone concreted a doorway and why does my map say there is a tunnel on the other side of this concrete? Did they get planning permission?

It feels very cheap in many parts of the game.
High Quality: Voice acting, textures, models.
Poor Quality: Scripting (enemy's popping up from thin air), maps (layout and amount), character progression (levelling up and items).

Everything else has good and bad points to me.

[Moondoggie]

I think everyone forgot that ME recycles almost everything especially on side missions which are all identical locations with some different enemies dotted around.

The way some people go on you'd think this is the first time Bioware ever pulled the recycled locations with different enemies trick and it isn't at all. Not that it isn't a bad thing but some like to use it as evidence of some sort of forced EA policy when they were doing it way before they were bought by EA.

If i was going to gripe about recycling in the game i'd complain more about spiders which are used tons. In Origins we had wolves and even the odd Bear to fight in the wilds in the second game we had spiders and more spiders.

Oh and recycled animations from ME2 and recycled sound effects in the background from DAO

Modifié par Moondoggie, 22 mars 2011 - 11:23 .

[ongnei]

i went to alot of hidden cave,all the same for bone pit to sundermount...i wonder did they focus too much on the environment that they neglect the map....i just killed a bunch of darkspawn outside the dalish camp in act3...thats stupid to the max...and ya everywhere i go theres spider spider spider, corpse corpse corpse...i dunno abt u all but i dun give a hoot about environment...i love dragon age because of the story,beautiful armour set and character....they ruin it...

[Dubya75]

Sadly, OP told the absolute sad truth. Truly dire situation.
My only consolation is how fun the gameplay is and how nice the *recycled* environments look...

[Wulfram]

What annoys me is that I still get lost in that damn cave, despite seeing it 50,000 times

Modifié par Wulfram, 22 mars 2011 - 11:52 .

[Loc'n'lol]

Randomly generated 3D levels don't go hand in hand with pre-calculated lighting (why we can't have real-time day/night cycles in the first place)

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 22 mars 2011 - 11:57 .