168 réponses à ce sujet

[BY-TOR STORMDRAGON]

Of course the dungeons and underground (even Sundermount) are recycled...or this wouldn't fit on a $.05c DVD! I mean, Star Ocean has 4-disks, I wonder why? LOL.

[AkiKishi]

BY-TOR STORMDRAGON wrote...

Of course the dungeons and underground (even Sundermount) are recycled...or this wouldn't fit on a $.05c DVD! I mean, Star Ocean has 4-disks, I wonder why? LOL.

Really ? I had no idea, don't really notice with blu ray.

[DTKT]

I cant believe some are defending this recycling design.

There's literally no way you can defend it from a player's perspective. Sure, it's easy to say: "Well, Bioware ran out of time". That doesnt justify it from our end.

Modifié par DTKT, 22 mars 2011 - 12:10 .

[Deylar]

DTKT wrote...

I cant believe some are defending this recycling design.

There's literally no way you can defend it from a player's perspective. Sure, it's easy to say: "Well, Bioware ran out of time". That doesnt justify it from our end.

Thank you.

Goodness. Why doesn't anyone seem to understand this?

Why do people defend the company and outright insult the consumer just cause they didn't like a feature of a game?

Makes no bloody sense to me.

[Cuthlan]

DTKT wrote...

I cant believe some are defending this recycling design.

There's literally no way you can defend it from a player's perspective. Sure, it's easy to say: "Well, Bioware ran out of time". That doesnt justify it from our end.

I don't defend it, I'm just not bothered by it. I've played games that were worse about it, and with the exception of the very worst (City of Heroes) it's never bothered me.

[ToJKa1]

Cuthlan wrote...

I don't defend it, I'm just not bothered by it.

This. I just don't see what the big deal is.

[DTKT]

Cuthlan wrote...

DTKT wrote...

I cant believe some are defending this recycling design.

There's literally no way you can defend it from a player's perspective. Sure, it's easy to say: "Well, Bioware ran out of time". That doesnt justify it from our end.

I don't defend it, I'm just not bothered by it. I've played games that were worse about it, and with the exception of the very worst (City of Heroes) it's never bothered me.

Different games have different standards. You can expect recycling in most MMO's due to their size and the amount of content provided. DAII is a singleplayer game that has to rely on very few things to keep the player interested to continue playing. Interesting and unique environnements is the best way to keep a player engaged and interested. While dialogue and story are incredibly important, a large portion of your playtime is spent running from A to B.

What baffles me is that focus testing didnt flag this as a main issue. I wish it had since it was the most glaring thing about DAII.

[Irx]

But people dismissed those worries! Bioware told us the small size was due to them having found ways to "refine" their programming techniques to make the space more efficient. They said that claims of  recycled environments was simply the story letting you revisit those locations, and nothing more.

Someone should really compile a list of bioware lies about the game.
Like a tactical camera present in pc version or dx11 broken only in demo, but fixed in the full version.

[Eclipse_9990]

Vali wrote...

So I have just finished playing the game, and despite the great moments in the story telling, I am just amazed at how much of this game is just layers and layers of the same recycled stuff.

When I first heard the claims of the recycled environments, I was worried.
When I first heard about the small gigabyte size, I was worried.

But people dismissed those worries! Bioware told us the small size was due to them having found ways to "refine" their programming techniques to make the space more efficient. They said that claims of  recycled environments was simply the story letting you revisit those locations, and nothing more.

Bioware.. Bunch of ****ing liars...

Oh and the people who claim this is trolling, are just butthurt fanboys/girls.

Cody211282 wrote...

Didn't bioware say before the game came out that they had enough time to make it just how they wanted it?

Oh! So Bioware wanted their game to be crap. That explains alot. 

Sigh.. I hope they don't do the same to Mass Effect 3.

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 22 mars 2011 - 01:57 .

[mmu1]

You know, it would be one thing if Dragon Age 2 had nice, hand-made graphics, and they decided to use them as much as possible.

For example, if they made a big forest map, or a large and complex cave complex, and during the course of the game they'd send you back there - and you'd find a new bandit camp in a clearling that used to be empty, or that a cave entrance which had been buried under rocks had been excavated by dwarf miners - and all those things somehow tied into the story. Games do that all the time, and that's fine...

But Dragon Age 2 locations were pretty tiny, with lots of "corridors", and aside from a handful of them, they were very obviously thrown together from pre-existing tiles/assets in a level editor.  Inside, everything is at right angles. Every room (and every cave, when you look closely) is pretty much rectangular.  And they couldn't even be bothered to move that pre-fabricated crap around? 

[Eclipse_9990]

shayboy4 wrote...

100% Agreed.
Im kinda pissed off exploring the same freaking place OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.
seriously bioware, what the heck?
for a moment i wanted to actually defend you guys because of the poor reviews you had been getting, and now i know WHY you got these reviews.

The art designer should be SHOT.

Fixed.

[kinna]

I agree that they recycled the maps a bit too much. Personally I don't mind it that much because I love the other aspects of the game. What I do mind is someone saying the ENTIRE game is recycled when they are talking about the maps and dungeon layout. Can you give examples of other things that are recycled more in DA2 than in other games?

[inseeisyou]

To some degree the recycling was a design decision. Unlike many RPGs where you are journeying across the land on a great quest this story is more about the characters life in a new place. So to some degree it makes sense you are seeing the same locations.

That said, for a $60 game it would have been nice to see some more unique environments. By the third act I just felt like I had seen everything and was checking off the boxes. At least throw in some new levels in between the recycles.

[DTKT]

kinna wrote...

I agree that they recycled the maps a bit too much. Personally I don't mind it that much because I love the other aspects of the game. What I do mind is someone saying the ENTIRE game is recycled when they are talking about the maps and dungeon layout. Can you give examples of other things that are recycled more in DA2 than in other games?

When several elements have limited variety and they all are presented at the same time, it gets pretty annoying. ME2 also had the issue but it felt more "real". Blue Suns sharing the same armor was more believable than 34 bandits with the same exact model with zero variation.

Recycled areas for Main Quest and side-quests.
Areas that do not change in Kirkwall coupled with recycled NPC models. They are poorly modeled and textured.
Poor variety in hostile NPC design. The Quanari are well designed from an art point of view but they all share the same base model with the same paint scheme. That makes fighting a pack of them a bit strange when the same NPC is repeated 8 times.

To some degree the recycling was a design decision. Unlike many RPGs
where you are journeying across the land on a great quest this story is
more about the characters life in a new place. So to some degree it
makes sense you are seeing the same locations.

It might have been born out of the timeframe they had. You can call it a design decision but I dont think it was the right call. It doesnt not add to the story. It even hurts it.

Modifié par DTKT, 22 mars 2011 - 02:16 .

[DungeonLord]

The recycled environments are just awful. Nehrim, the total conversion for Oblivion, features an entire country with entire cities full of buildings with interiors you can explore, and the land is full of dungeons and interesting locations that all are unique. Even if some props are recycled, they're used in new and pleasing combinations. And this was done by volunteers. And it's MASSIVELY larger than the pathetically small levels in Dragon Age 2.

Really, there is NO excuse for the laughably small locations in DA2. 3d design software has come a long way as has level design apps. An experienced 3d modeler / level designer can design levels like those in Dragon Age 2 in a very short time. I bet it didn't take more than a month or two at most for a team of 3 or 4 to do all the design work for the locations and that's being generous.

Modifié par DungeonLord, 22 mars 2011 - 02:22 .

[kinna]

DTKT wrote...

kinna wrote...

I agree that they recycled the maps a bit too much. Personally I don't mind it that much because I love the other aspects of the game. What I do mind is someone saying the ENTIRE game is recycled when they are talking about the maps and dungeon layout. Can you give examples of other things that are recycled more in DA2 than in other games?

When several elements have limited variety and they all are presented at the same time, it gets pretty annoying. ME2 also had the issue but it felt more "real". Blue Suns sharing the same armor was more believable than 34 bandits with the same exact model with zero variation.

Recycled areas for Main Quest and side-quests.
Areas that do not change in Kirkwall coupled with recycled NPC models. They are poorly modeled and textured.
Poor variety in hostile NPC design. The Quanari are well designed from an art point of view but they all share the same base model with the same paint scheme. That makes fighting a pack of them a bit strange when the same NPC is repeated 8 times.

And the fact that most games have equally repetitive designs (except the level desing recycling) for NPCs, enemies and their armor does not bother you?

[lazuli]

MaglorArcanist wrote...

Diablo random dungeons are another thing.
But the problem is probabily the editor choiced, and the problem to make the areas, but damm, you have a developer team for make the damm area.

I am no professional level designer, but the DA:O toolset was an absolute bear.  Back to tilesets, I say, especially if recycled interiors are the only other option for Bioware.

[Rafe34]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Oh! So Bioware wanted their game to be crap. That explains alot. 

Sigh.. I hope they don't do the same to Mass Effect 3.

That is my biggest fear. I trusted Bioware not to screw up the ME franchise because they had given me no reason to believe that was what they were going to do. Now, I have ample reason to worry.

[DTKT]

kinna wrote...

DTKT wrote...

kinna wrote...

I agree that they recycled the maps a bit too much. Personally I don't mind it that much because I love the other aspects of the game. What I do mind is someone saying the ENTIRE game is recycled when they are talking about the maps and dungeon layout. Can you give examples of other things that are recycled more in DA2 than in other games?

When several elements have limited variety and they all are presented at the same time, it gets pretty annoying. ME2 also had the issue but it felt more "real". Blue Suns sharing the same armor was more believable than 34 bandits with the same exact model with zero variation.

Recycled areas for Main Quest and side-quests.
Areas that do not change in Kirkwall coupled with recycled NPC models. They are poorly modeled and textured.
Poor variety in hostile NPC design. The Quanari are well designed from an art point of view but they all share the same base model with the same paint scheme. That makes fighting a pack of them a bit strange when the same NPC is repeated 8 times.

And the fact that most games have equally repetitive designs (except the level desing recycling) for NPCs, enemies and their armor does not bother you?

As I said, it all depends on the entire package and how each location is differentiated. Batman Arkham Asylum had a lot of backtracking. But, they found a way to keep it fresh by changing the design(through the Poison Ivy escape and the final sequence with the Joker).

ME2 locations were visually different and were not as copy and pasted. Several of the side quests were also unique. It's far from perfect, we can agree on that, but it didnt discourage me from playing. That's what the copy and paste behind DAII did.

They could have done great things with the Night/Day design. Instead, they went for a slight light change and random mob of NPC. Quite a missed opportunity there.

Modifié par DTKT, 22 mars 2011 - 02:30 .

[Johnsen1972]

I mean I was already angry because the whole game just plays in a small village of Kirkwall, but doing the same maps again and again in each act, during day and nights completly destroyed all atmosphere and fun in the game.

When I play a fantasy RPG, I want to explore a new world and dont play in a small village that you can explore in 5 hours. After playing DA2 for just 3-5 hours you have explored everything. after that its all recycled.

Worst Bioware game I ever played.

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 22 mars 2011 - 02:29 .

[GodBID]

I'll bank all my money on Skyrim and GuildWars 2, i highly doubt ME3 will be better, i smell hardcore recycling and a even more dumbed down system for the FPSGOGOTARDS, and don't even get me started on SWToR the combat system alone made me want to kill myself.

[Johnsen1972]

Im waiting for the first reviews of ME3, Im definitly NOT preordering it. Maybe if it has some good reviews I will buy it 1-2 years later as a complete Ultimate Edition or much cheaper. Im not paying a full price for a short stripped "artfully" recycled game. Skyrim and Witcher 2 looks very promising for me and I dont think you can explore the whole game in 3-5 hours, because of recycled maps.

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 22 mars 2011 - 02:42 .

[macrocarl]

ToJKa1 wrote...

Cuthlan wrote...

I don't defend it, I'm just not bothered by it.

This. I just don't see what the big deal is.

Ditto. I mean, everything is VO'd for crying out loud and looks really great! Of course I'd want more and I hope they do so for the next game but let's not overreahhhhhh ahahaha never mind. Forgot I was on the internet for a sec:lol:

[Johnsen1972]

anyway your avatar is really cute

[lazuli]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Im waiting for the first reviews of ME3, Im definitly NOT preordering it. Maybe if it has some good reviews I will buy it 1-2 years later as a complete Ultimate Edition or much cheaper. Im not paying a full price for a short stripped "artfully" recycled game. Skyrim and Witcher 2 looks very promising for me and I dont think you can explore the whole game in 3-5 hours, because of recycled maps.

As much as I despise the recycling, it should be noted that Bioware has different groups of people working on Dragon Age and Mass Effect.  I'm not going to prejudice myself against ME3 when a different team is developing it.