25 réponses à ce sujet

[Axeface]

Is it possible to slow down the two handers? In Origins swinging some huge sword really felt like you were, anyone who has tried to pick up a claymore will know what I'm talking about. This new, what I consider anime style combat is not to my liking. Origins had a real-world feel to the combat, and fixing this two hander change would be a step in the right direction.

Oh, and where did cool finishing moves go? That was awesome

Modifié par Axeface, 22 mars 2011 - 06:28 .

[Whailor]

Finishing moves would be nice indeed, as for swinging them slow then no. Definitely not as slow as they were in Origins, that was just silly. It looked like they were trying to hit someone with a piece of railroad, not a sword. So speed is fine for me, but finishing moves would probably require for corpses not to disintegrate as soon as someone spits at them (don't like this exploding opponent mess, that's just way too weird).

[Axeface]

Thanks for the reply. Fair enough that you like the speed in DA2 but what do you mean 'no? It's not possible? Also like I said, anyone who has tried to pick up a real 6 foot sword such as a claymore or bastard sword will appreciate that swinging them IS like swinging a piece of railroad.

Yeh I dont like everything exploding all the time either, it would have to go to bring back finishing moves.
There really was nothing like seeing my Warden stop, grab a darkspawn and slice off its head. Extreme violence, but not every second enemy .

Modifié par Axeface, 22 mars 2011 - 06:56 .

[aduellist]

Axeface wrote...

Also like I said, anyone who has tried to
pick up a real 6 foot sword such as a claymore or bastard sword will
appreciate that swinging them IS like swinging a piece of
railroad.

Actually, no it's not. Having used replica weapons of accurate size and weight, they're not as cumbersome as one might think. Used correctly, they are fast and nimble.

Modifié par aduellist, 22 mars 2011 - 06:59 .

[Axeface]

A bastard sword? I've handled my fair share, granted i'm no body builder, but six feet of metal is damn heavy, even smaller swords (medieval) have got a lot of weight to them and were used to bludgeon as much as cut.

To expand on the overall aim here... If we had DA2's mechanics (Stam regen, abilities etc), with DAO's pacing and 'feel'.. I think we'd have something very special.

[scylis]

Ugh, not this argument again. I suggest both sides agree to disagree and the people who want it make the mod (if possible) and be done with it. I know this is the internet, and all, and my first instinct was to jump in and proselytize for the side I'm on, but this ain't the place for it.

I don't see it being done (or being possible) in the near future, but if we're given a toolset, things could change. If/when it is possible, I hope it gets made for those that want it so that they can have (hopefully) increased enjoyment playing the game while those that don't can go on enjoying the game without jumping down the throats of those that do, and vice versa.

Live and let mod, people.

[kotli]

Axeface, your wrong as no sword weighed more than 7lb if it was used in combat (that 7lb is the heaviest sword ever used in combat a Zweihänder which is more of a pike/sword hybrid)

The famous Longsword, bastard, hand and a half or greatsword (all the same type of sword) weighted between 2.2 & 4½ lb with the avg weight being 3.1 lb with a blade of between 35–36 in.

Now lets take a look at the Katana a sword that we know can be moved about fast they weight 2.5lb on average, so there's nothing wrong with 2 handed speed in DA2.

[Whailor]

Sorry, by "no" I did not mean that it cannot be done. I meant that I personally wouldn't want to slow them down since the speed in DAO was absolutely not realistic. Sure it's not realistic in DA2 either but that's fine with me, at least there's now some use for 2H weapons

As for the process of slowing them down itself then not sure whether it can be done without a toolset. Unless someone would check the parameters of abilities which slow a target down, convert them into item ability and then allow you to add it, like a hidden or internal attribute, to an item.. Yeah, don't know But I sure would like the finishing moves, just not sure how well that can be done with the way the opponents are gibbed like in some console games. I personally would love to see opponent bodys act more naturally, with applied physics and all, that would make beating them up way more fun, heh..

[MaaZeus]

I think there should be compromise. Yes, in DA2 they swing it bit too fast. Two handers are not incredibly heavy, but they are still heavy and while their balance point is close to grip (so it wont feel like swinging an axe) you still have to have some muscle AND good technique to swing it fast.

Hell, I own a fully functional Lutel bastard/handandhalf sword and even that is not what one could call "light" and wont swing it back and forth like a madman, momentum is definetly there.

DAO in the other hand is ridiculously slow and really looked like they were swinging a huge iron club. But then again the sword models even look like iron clubs with no balance what so ever. And DA2 is not exactly better in that regard, some look absolutely ridiculous. Hayders (sp?) Razor makes my eyes bleed...

Modifié par MaaZeus, 22 mars 2011 - 01:25 .

[MaaZeus]

doublepost

Modifié par MaaZeus, 22 mars 2011 - 01:22 .

[AreleX]

Where would the compromise lie, exactly? How much do you lower it?

Modifié par AreleX, 22 mars 2011 - 01:35 .

[Hawke123]

I don't think it would be a good idea to lower the attack speed of a 2 hander at all. That would lower the DPS a lot meaning a lack of balance between classes.

[MaaZeus]

AreleX wrote...

Where would the compromise lie, exactly? How much do you lower it?

That would have to be tested. Its quite hard to say some value how much it would have to be lowered. It is not much however.

Here is a Zweihander test cutting video to give an idea what kind of momentum is required to swing it.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 22 mars 2011 - 02:03 .

[MaaZeus]

Hawke123 wrote...

I don't think it would be a good idea to lower the attack speed of a 2 hander at all. That would lower the DPS a lot meaning a lack of balance between classes.

Then the attack power has to be increased to make up for the loss.

[t0mm06]

http://www.tv.com/vi...r--the-claymore
this guy seems to be swinging it pretty fast, not as fast ad da2 but 10 times faster then origins!

[Roma Victa]

Hawke123 wrote...

I don't think it would be a good idea to lower the attack speed of a 2 hander at all. That would lower the DPS a lot meaning a lack of balance between classes.

Exactly.  Slowing down only 2 handers would severely gimp them.  You would have to slow down everybody and reduce magic damage to maintain any resemblance of balance.

Not that I would mind everything being just a tad slower.  My reaction time isn't what it used to be.  Age and knocks to the cranium take their toll.

[Naitaka]

The problem with slowing down the 2-hander is that you have to increase weapon damage. However, since talent damage are directly tied to weapon damage then you'd have to lower the modifier on all the talents and well, that would invovle the scripts so it's probably not going to happen too soon.

[uncledolan]

come on, you're talking about realism in a fantasy game... where you can cast blizzards, conjure elementals and slay dragons..that being said i like the increase of twohanders but I agree that with attack speed upgrades it can be a bit excessive... i seriously hated how slow two handers attacked in DA;O but there was a mod to make them faster

[Dreadstruck]

What. Can't we get a proper middle ground, without people going into extreme hyperboles like "U want slower swords? OMG U WANT REALISM, realism sucks this is fantasy" and such.

In my opinion, I wouldn't mind slowing them down a bit.
But like guys above me said, it would require a bit more than just some simple speed editing.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 22 mars 2011 - 11:31 .

[Ykiu]

Axeface wrote...

Is it possible to slow down the two
handers? In Origins swinging some huge sword really felt like you were,
anyone who has tried to pick up a claymore will know what I'm talking
about. This new, what I consider anime style combat is not to my liking.
Origins had a real-world feel to the combat, and fixing this two hander
change would be a step in the right direction.

Oh, and where did cool finishing moves go? That was awesome

Shouldn't be hard to do at all.

First download the gff4editor and use 'daosavegame.exe' to open your save with your warrior.

Open the [+] Party tab and find your own character.

Look for 'Animation_Speed_Modifier' and edit the base value of 0.0 to something else. Perhaps -50.0 ?

Perhaps even edit the 'Damage_Physical_Bonus_Factor' to compensate for your slower swingspeed and simulate slow but devastating blows.

This is how I edit my mage to make his staff attacks less useless.


In case you cannot find the modifiers, make sure you equip your character
with an item that raises your attackspeed and/or physical damage.

Alternatively you could raise your crit chance to 100% and crit damage to (insert your balanced value here) % while just lowering your attackspeed? That should keep your base damage values intact and not affect your offensive skills?

Modifié par Ykiu, 22 mars 2011 - 11:38 .

[Ykiu]

Urgh, double post

Modifié par Ykiu, 22 mars 2011 - 11:32 .

[MaaZeus]

Avalla'ch wrote...

What. Can't we get a proper middle ground, without people going into extreme hyperboles like "U want slower swords? OMG U WANT REALISM, realism sucks this is fantasy" and such.

In my opinion, I wouldn't mind slowing them down a bit.
But like guys above me said, it would require a bit more than just some simple speed editing.

Indeed. It is comments like uncledolans that make me bit pissed off... They do not seem to get it what some of us hardcore (and conservative) fantasy fans are after?

Modifié par MaaZeus, 23 mars 2011 - 09:02 .

[Rockpopple]

You know, realism or no, if you slow down 2Handers they'll be sliced to ribbons by every enemy on the game higher than Casual.

[Nug Pie]

t0mm06 wrote...

http://www.tv.com/vi...r--the-claymore
this guy seems to be swinging it pretty fast, not as fast ad da2 but 10 times faster then origins!

From what I understand, big 2-handers were more akin to polearms than swinging swords, and were stabbing weapons at that.  People with shorter weapons couldn't get in range without being stabbed.  Sword-and-board or the clownish (by reality standards) dual wielding would just...die.  Trained 2-handed sword people with full plate armor were the height of battlefield tech just as guns and so on began to take over (3 Musketeers, etc. the best swordfighters were rewarded to be the first to receive the expensive, new muskets.)


The guy in this video, I suspect, would quickly die on the battlefield as he would tire quickly swinging it around in feints, then you could lunch in as he swung around and stab him with your own, shorter pigsticker.

The swords were the state of the art, but not because of what this guy is doing

[Nug Pie]

BTW, even allowing for that video, you can see how much warriors are gimped in games like this. They were more akin to Superman in that they were both tough and high DPS.

Yet it's "conventional wisdom" you can't have high toughness (defence, bag-o-hitpoints) and high DPS simultaneously, as then "why play a wimpy mage" or a thief, for that matter.


So this fearsome weapon is turned into basically a giant wiffle bat. Meanwhile the thief's backstab is blown all out of proportion (it's supposed to be powerful because they sneak up on you unawares from behind, and you are not moving, something doubly impossible on an actual battlefield) just to give the thief something to do besides picking locks.

In the "conventional wisdom" trade-off, they are worse toughness and even higher DPS, with wimpy mages being highest DPS and lowest toughness.

You'll note they also deviate from reality in preventing you from smashing open locks (again to inflate a thief's importance).  Then, finally, they give the thief a magical disappearing power denied other classes.


You can tell I'm not a fan of the several magnitudes difference of gimpitude given to standard fighters vs. simple reality, and the ridiculously bloated (again vs. simple reality) double-bonuses given to thieves, just to "balance" them in a gameplay sort of way. 



Should I try to go see Sucker Punch at 12:01 AM tonight?

Modifié par Nug Pie, 24 mars 2011 - 12:01 .