58 réponses à ce sujet

[fanman72]

 Their selfishness and stupidity wasn't revealed until after you realized what has happened.  I wasn't going to give the Arishok Isabela, because the Quanari - although the best part of the storyline - are bat**** insane and deserved to be slaughtered.  But I really wish you could just throw Isabela off a building, and Meril the same during her Act 3 quest



It was fun knifing Anders at the end though

[EDarkness]

I agree to some degree. I really wanted to smack Merrill, because she was obviously being stupid. Which is why I maxed her out and then didn't give her the knife and told the tribe I was going to take her away and she'd never come back. I liked the character and she was my LI, but there were points where I couldn't help but smack my forehead.

[Casuist]

Just for the record, while Merrill's obsession with the Eluvian may reasonably be considered "stupid" - "selfish" is inaccurate. She honestly and sincerely believes that her actions will benefit her people, and she is willing to be exiled from her clan in order to do what is necessary for their prosperity.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Sounds like Merrill would have been better off being thrown off a bridge than staying with your characters.

[DarkestElian]

Well, you can always hand Isabela over to Castillon in act three.

[wyandell26]

Casuist wrote...

Just for the record, while Merrill's obsession with the Eluvian may reasonably be considered "stupid" - "selfish" is inaccurate. She honestly and sincerely believes that her actions will benefit her people, and she is willing to be exiled from her clan in order to do what is necessary for their prosperity.

Disagree Merrill could have dealt with the demon, the keeper didn't believe in her, and the keeper had no idea if the mirror worked that way?

[cglasgow]

It's important to remember that Merrill's blood magic or her eluvian project never actually kills a single person(*); everybody that dies around Merrill dies as a result of their own panicking over the idea of Merrill doing blood magic.  Her actual blood magic lab accident rate is zero.

And to spend six years fiddling around in the guts of very powerful and unknown magic, with only the half-truths and booby-trapped bull**** of a demon as your instruction manual, and not have anything blow up in your face even once?   That's a lot of skill.


(*) Although her regular magic probably kills a couple hundred people or so over the course of three acts... but its not like Hawke's anybody to talk, given that 'Death by Hawke' is probably its own entire statistical category on Kirkwall's annual mortality reports.

Modifié par cglasgow, 22 mars 2011 - 09:05 .

[Reidbynature]

Casuist wrote...

Just for the record, while Merrill's obsession with the Eluvian may reasonably be considered "stupid" - "selfish" is inaccurate. She honestly and sincerely believes that her actions will benefit her people, and she is willing to be exiled from her clan in order to do what is necessary for their prosperity.

Not really.  Whether Merrill intended to help others or just herself doesn't matter.  She knew that the clan and her keeper wanted nothing to do with what she chose to do and she wanted to do it anyway.  It's clear that she's doing it for herself and her own reasons because no one else wanted it.

As long as we're throwing characters of bridges I say Anders an Fenris can join Merrill.  They were equally frustrating to deal with.  Fenris and Merrill made me feel like I was babysitting them  Anders I liked up until a point, but he pulled that annoying "help me, but I can't say with what" rubbish.

I disagree about Isabella though.  Her character was pretty obvious.  I saw the whole betrayal thing coming a mile away, but I thought it fit her character (along with being a slapper lol).

[Lithuasil]

Merill wanted to help her clan, and she was smart about it. Nothing ever went wrong, for her dealings, and when she finally comes down to the last measure, she brings several other experienced mages as failsaves - the keeper ****ed up, the clan wouldn't listen, neither of which are poor Merills fault.

[Tleining]

@ Reidbynature
so? Merril isn't trying to gain personal glory/power/wealth. She is willing to risk her own life for the good of her people.
Just like Aveline is willing to go against the wishes of her Captain and the Guard for what she thought was right.
Just like Cullen was willing to stand up to Meredith and the other Templars for what he thought was right.

In Origins, the Keeper and the other Dalish wanted to study the Mirror to find a cure. Does that mean that Duncan was selfish?

Merril knew that there was a risk of the demon controlling her. And she wants you to kill her if that happens. How is that selfish?

Modifié par Tleining, 22 mars 2011 - 02:10 .

[Camenae]

Ugh, Merrill's naïveté is why so many falls prey to demons and becoming abominations. They all think their cause is great enough to justify the need, and they all think that they're somehow special, so all these bad things couldn't possibly happen to them! Paying lip service to the risks does not mean they don't still have this deluded sense that they are somehow immune to the risks--just talk to any teenager who wants to borrow your new car.

Isabela...I hated her. For God's sake, WHAT exactly was so scary about Castillon? How many gangs, blood mages, demons, and dragons has Hawke killed? Castillon was just another thug, but to hear Isabela prattle on about him, you'd think he was the Maker-incarnate. I understand something has to be done to build up to the Act II finale, but Isabela's motivation was just feeble. She killed more innocent people than Anders and Meredith combined by CAUSING the Qunari to come to Kirkwall and stay for years getting more and more pissed off the longer they stew.

WHY even steal the book to begin with? Pretty sure thieves only steal what they think they can fence easily, and NOT something that would take them years and years to find one buyer and causing war with an entire people in the meantime, as we see in the game. I think any thief would tell you that it's just not worth the trouble. A thief would steal your iPhone, your cash, your diamond ring and leave your grandmother's handmade quilt well enough alone. So, unless she has some personal vendetta against the Qunari, about which we are told nothing, I see no reason that a thief would want to steal anything whose appeal is limited to such a narrow audience. Sure, people fight over religious artifacts all the time, but her character is made out clearly to be in the for-profit category and not the religious-zealot-with-a-cause-greater-than-oneself category.

[Tleining]

@ Camenae
Merril asked you to kill her if the demon takes control. She knows that there is a risk and she prepared accordingly.
as far as Isabela goes, Castillon was a businessman, lots of contacts. With him dead, Isabela probably won't be able to work with any of her old contacts.
Did you notice how she was searching for the relic pretty much the whole game? Not to mention that not only the Qunari, but the Tevinter Magisters were interested in that book. Once she had it, there were more than enough people interested in it.

[Rockpopple]

You know, Merrill might have been overconfident, but she wasn't entirely wrong. She had prepared herself and she said repeatedly she knew how to handle at least that particular demon, and in my game she was never possessed by it. She did fall in the Fade but that was another matter.

If the other Dalish trusted her, none of what happened would have happened. Their own fear and paranoia was the death of them.

[NinjaRogue]

Merrill denies it even being a demon in the early stages of the game. >.> She doesn't have a change of heart until the woman who loved her like a daughter sacrificed herself for her (made me cry).

Isabela? She gets giantic kodos for being that flipping brave. She has the book and is on her way to freedom. OH WAIT! Let's turn around and take it to the people who want me dead, because it's the right thing to do. DAMN IT HAWKE THIS IS YOUR INFLUENCE!!!!! I honestly would like to say I would have the courage to do that, but I don't know....

[lazuli]

DarkestElian wrote...

Well, you can always hand Isabela over to Castillon in act three.

Not if you make the only reasonable choice and say, "Uh, no, I'm not going to let you have this artifact that could very well save an entire city." 

Metagaming aside, that is.

[Lulia]

Am i the only one that has no idea what Merrill was trying to be so helpful about?

Ok, so she has a mirror that she thinks she can fix... who wants it fixed? Who needs it fixed?! Why does it need to be fixed?!?!?!?!

No one else was bothered about Tamlen (sp) so it's not even that.

Makes no sense at all...

A bridge is too risky incase she manages to survive the fall and swim to safety <_<

Isabela i quite liked on my second playthrough when i actually tried to get to know her instead of judging her. She comes good in the end

Modifié par Lulia, 22 mars 2011 - 03:07 .

[Reidbynature]

Lithuasil wrote...

Merill wanted to help her clan, and she was smart about it. Nothing ever went wrong, for her dealings, and when she finally comes down to the last measure, she brings several other experienced mages as failsaves - the keeper ****ed up, the clan wouldn't listen, neither of which are poor Merills fault.

In on way was she smart.  Even from her in game conversations with other characters you can tell she's not all there.  Trying to summon a demon in Dragon Age is in no way smart regardless of what 'protection' she thought she had.  Even worse is that this quest can come after taking her into the fade to free the dreamer half-elf mage child where she turns on you because a demon promised her something she desired.  I'm sorry, but there's too much evidence in this game that Merrill is stupid and ignorant of her actions and responsibilities and the consequences.

[Reidbynature]

Double post because couldn't cut and paste.

Tleining wrote...

@ Reidbynature
so? Merril isn't trying to gain personal glory/power/wealth. She is willing to risk her own life for the good of her people.
Just like Aveline is willing to go against the wishes of her Captain and the Guard for what she thought was right.
Just like Cullen was willing to stand up to Meredith and the other Templars for what he thought was right.

In Origins, the Keeper and the other Dalish wanted to study the Mirror to find a cure. Does that mean that Duncan was selfish?

Merril knew that there was a risk of the demon controlling her. And she wants you to kill her if that happens. How is that selfish?

Really?  In what world is Aveline and Cullen good comparisons for what Merrill was trying to do?  They were responding to immediate or potential threats.  In Merrill's case, she was the threat.  How can anyone not see that?  The keeper stepped in because of the potential risk to save Merrill from herself.  So what if Merrill brought Hawke with her to kill her just in case?  There was no gaurantee that Hawke could contain the threat if it possessed her.  That's a stupid request on so many levels.  If someone asks you to stand by to kill them just in case then it's a good sign they're doing something wrong.  That should be plain to anyone.

And her actions did result in death (possibly her whole clan) whether you want to argue whether she killed them herself is another thing.  She still has responsibility.  Something she spent the whole game running away from.

Modifié par Reidbynature, 22 mars 2011 - 03:14 .

[Camenae]

If Merrill genuinely acknowledges that she could become a demon, then she should have realized that the main reason people are concerned about her becoming a demon is not limited to concern for herself, but concern about what a possessed mage is capable of doing to others. Using my teenager borrowing my car analogy: they might say to me "I know I might drive drunk/while texting and total your car, I promise my parents will pay for your car and they won't sue you for me dying." and I'll say that my concern is not about that, but the OTHER people they might kill with my car if the risks come to fruition.

[Robhuzz]

NinjaRogue wrote...

Merrill denies it even being a demon in the early stages of the game. >.> She doesn't have a change of heart until the woman who loved her like a daughter sacrificed herself for her (made me cry).

Isabela? She gets giantic kodos for being that flipping brave. She has the book and is on her way to freedom. OH WAIT! Let's turn around and take it to the people who want me dead, because it's the right thing to do. DAMN IT HAWKE THIS IS YOUR INFLUENCE!!!!! I honestly would like to say I would have the courage to do that, but I don't know....

Not to mention she couldn't be sure if Hawke still supported her in that case since you can just turn her over to the qunari. It took a MASSIVE amount of courage to go back to the qunari (who wanted you dead) in a city at war (with plenty of guys who want you dead) and meeting up with the arishok (who wanted her captured) and Hawke (who might hate Isabella at this point)

As far as Merril goes: I hate blood magic, I was kind of dissapointed there was nothing I could do to talk her out of her idea of fixing the eluvian (Like that would've done any good) but unfortunately I just had to go along with her. I never really thought of throwing her off a bridge though.

[Maria Caliban]

Lulia wrote...

Am i the only one that has no idea what Merrill was trying to be so helpful about?

Ok, so she has a mirror that she thinks she can fix... who wants it fixed? Who needs it fixed?! Why does it need to be fixed?!?!?!?!

The Dalish are the last remnants of the original Elven civilization. They've lost most of their language, customs, lands, and culture, and are slowly dying off.

As a Keeper, her job is to retain what knowledge they have left.

The Eluvian is an ancient, elven magical artifact. It's part of her people's history and she hopes that there's some benefit to be had by restoring it.

Reidbynature wrote...

There was no gaurantee that Hawke could contain the threat if it possessed her.

Are we talking about the same Hawke? The person who's been slaughtering demons and abominations by the bucketful for six years now?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 22 mars 2011 - 03:12 .

[Noatz]

Rockpopple wrote...

You know, Merrill might have been overconfident, but she wasn't entirely wrong. She had prepared herself and she said repeatedly she knew how to handle at least that particular demon, and in my game she was never possessed by it. She did fall in the Fade but that was another matter.

If the other Dalish trusted her, none of what happened would have happened. Their own fear and paranoia was the death of them.

Marethari seemed fairly confident the demon would have possessed her, as per its plan. Whether or not it would or not will never be known, but if Marethari couldn't resist/contain it then I doubt Merrill could.

[AlexXIV]

There is a way to give Isabella to the Arishok.

[Reidbynature]

Camenae wrote...

If Merrill genuinely acknowledges that she could become a demon, then she should have realized that the main reason people are concerned about her becoming a demon is not limited to concern for herself, but concern about what a possessed mage is capable of doing to others. Using my teenager borrowing my car analogy: they might say to me "I know I might drive drunk/while texting and total your car, I promise my parents will pay for your car and they won't sue you for me dying." and I'll say that my concern is not about that, but the OTHER people they might kill with my car if the risks come to fruition.

Yes, but the counter argument here seems to be "she knows she is doing something incredibly dangerous and stupid, but she has taken precautions and it is everybody else's fault they died". lol

Modifié par Reidbynature, 22 mars 2011 - 03:12 .

[AlexXIV]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Lulia wrote...

Am i the only one that has no idea what Merrill was trying to be so helpful about?

Ok, so she has a mirror that she thinks she can fix... who wants it fixed? Who needs it fixed?! Why does it need to be fixed?!?!?!?!

The Dalish are the last remnants of the original Elven civilization. They've lost most of their language, customs, lands, and culture, and are slowly dying off.

As a Keeper, her job is to retain what knowledge they have left.

The Eluvian is an ancient, elven magical artifact. It's part of her people's history and she hopes that there's some benefit to be had by restoring it.

My idea is that the ancient elves used the same bloodmagic Merrill uses. After all it is called 'elven pariah'. I am thinking that the ancient elves also had deals with demons etc, just that they were alot more careful and experienced than the humans. I think that Merrill shows that she is capable of using bloodmagic without losing control. Well with the exception with the fade sequence in which she turned on me.