237 réponses à ce sujet

[Joe_8998]

Come on, that really seems like a cop out. Maybe they wanted to make it so that anyone could romance any party member, and not have to worry about gender or starting a new playthrough to experience it.

But it just seems so... unlikely. All of the varied and interesting people I picked up on my adventure swing both ways? Does the population of Thedas have a much greater percentage of bisexual citizens than our world?

Or did they include a cut-and-paste modular romance experience for both genders because it was easier?

[Elenaxrose]

Many they want to give gamers more choice. If you think about it, they might not swing both ways from the start, they might just fall in love with hawke.
I personally prefer it like this.

[ColaQueen]

no, only four of them are. It's not a copout at all it's the best way to deal with the romance possibilities so that everyone gets to romance all possible romance partners. And, they are not declaritively bi, unlike in DAO where you had to say it was okay if they slept with the same gender etc. Now they simply are available to you if you want them.

Yes, IRL depending on who your friends are it might be a bit unrealistic but this is a game and the writers did the best they could to please fans of ingame romances.

Modifié par SilverSentinel, 22 mars 2011 - 09:06 .

[wulfsturm]

Joe_8998 wrote...
Or did they include a cut-and-paste modular romance experience for both genders because it was easier?

Pretty much, most of the LIs will act as heterosexuals or homosexuals depending on what gender your character is and if you decide to romance them. Kind of an easy way of placating either sexualities.

[Insom]

The guy companions are gay if you're a man and straight if you're female. It's pretty strange.

[EccentricSage]

It's because homosexuals felt like their options were much more limited than the options straight people had in Origins.

If I could have it my way, there would be straight, bisexual, and exclusively gay love interests. But I can promise you if they were to create the characters to have realistic sexual identities, they would be flamed and flamed and flamed by people who are pissed off because they can't romance their favorite character without using a character that is not the same sex as them IRL, etc. It's unfortunate.

[-leadintea-]

Wasn't Anders straight (or at least bi) in Awakening? So how does it work that now he can only be gay in playthroughs with a male PC?

[Mox Ruuga]

EccentricSage wrote...

If I could have it my way, there would be straight, bisexual, and exclusively gay love interests. But I can promise you if they were to create the characters to have realistic sexual identities, they would be flamed and flamed and flamed by people who are pissed off because they can't romance their favorite character without using a character that is not the same sex as them IRL, etc. It's unfortunate.

You are quite correct, I feel. I can only imagine the nerd rage had characters like Liara, Leliana, or Merrill been 100% lesbian. There would have been a smaller but still visible kvetch fest had Zevran, Thane, or Fenris been 100% gay.

I for one would appreciate a fully lesbian or gay character, but what I would appreciate even more would be the radical decision from Bioware to make the next Dragon Age game the first one with NO romances AT ALL, straight or gay. Considering the interests and focus of the fanbase, that would be a ballsy move...

[-leadintea-]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

I for one would appreciate a fully lesbian or gay character, but what I would appreciate even more would be the radical decision from Bioware to make the next Dragon Age game the first one with NO romances AT ALL, straight or gay. Considering the interests and focus of the fanbase, that would be a ballsy move...

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Romances are nice, but I think WAY too much emphasis is placed on them.

[AlexMBrennan]

It's not an ideal solution, but it's better than Alice being interested in Bob if and only if Bob is a guy (no matter how evil, violent, psychopathic, patronising towards Alice, ...).

[EccentricSage]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

If I could have it my way, there would be straight, bisexual, and exclusively gay love interests. But I can promise you if they were to create the characters to have realistic sexual identities, they would be flamed and flamed and flamed by people who are pissed off because they can't romance their favorite character without using a character that is not the same sex as them IRL, etc. It's unfortunate.

You are quite correct, I feel. I can only imagine the nerd rage had characters like Liara, Leliana, or Merrill been 100% lesbian. There would have been a smaller but still visible kvetch fest had Zevran, Thane, or Fenris been 100% gay.

I for one would appreciate a fully lesbian or gay character, but what I would appreciate even more would be the radical decision from Bioware to make the next Dragon Age game the first one with NO romances AT ALL, straight or gay. Considering the interests and focus of the fanbase, that would be a ballsy move...

Ballsy, but less immersive for many role players.  It's only natural when one is spending a lot of time with a small group of people, that sparks will fly, and people will want to act out on those feelings.  This is doubly true in times of trouble, when you feel like it can all be over in days. 

I wish that Bioware would have the guts to give characters widely varried yet fully thought out and distinctive sexual identities, though.  If I have to play a male character to romance the gay character, cool, I get to have a gay story line.  What's wrong with that?  I think, if given enough development time and propper care and tact, RPGs with characters like that would really encourage players step into other people's shoes instead of needing their PC to be a fairy tale version of themselves every playthrough. 

I fear that if characters do not have their own distinct sexual identity, we'll miss out on a lot of good story telling.  I hate the idea of pretending sexuality is a non issue in fiction, because that is not relatable.

[Mox Ruuga]

EccentricSage wrote...

Ballsy, but less immersive for many role players.  It's only natural when one is spending a lot of time with a small group of people, that sparks will fly, and people will want to act out on those feelings.  This is doubly true in times of trouble, when you feel like it can all be over in days. 

Well, depends on how they set the story up. What if there are no long term companions, for example? Or our character starts married? Or is incapable of love for some reason? There are options, and we have seen the typically structured Bioware RPG romance a few too many times now, I'm thinking.

I wish that Bioware would have the guts to give characters widely varried yet fully thought out and distinctive sexual identities, though.  If I have to play a male character to romance the gay character, cool, I get to have a gay story line.  What's wrong with that?  I think, if given enough development time and propper care and tact, RPGs with characters like that would really encourage players step into other people's shoes instead of needing their PC to be a fairy tale version of themselves every playthrough. 

I fear that if characters do not have their own distinct sexual identity, we'll miss out on a lot of good story telling.  I hate the idea of pretending sexuality is a non issue in fiction, because that is not relatable.

Agreed there. Hell, I prefer to treat Leliana as a lesbian more or less, and tend to romance her exclusively with female characters. I'm sure there are people who prefer to pair Zevran with a male character, tho I feel he is more clearly written as a bisexual canonwise than Leli. Anders, though I loathe the character, could be plausibly portrayed as fully gay. If I liked the character (and the actual game) better, I think I would create a Chantry true believer ManHawke Paladin type for him to have a Rivalmance with.

[dantares83]

Thunderbringer wrote...

Wasn't Anders straight (or at least bi) in Awakening? So how does it work that now he can only be gay in playthroughs with a male PC?

yeah, I tot he was a ladies' man in Awakening and was so surprised he started flirting with my male mage. Did a google and realised that all companions are bisexual.

I supposed with Justice in him and his loneiness, n his idealogy of freedom and blah blah blah.. it is not that impossible for him to be bisexual... as with Isabel and Merril... just just see how Fenris can be bisexual 2....

[Lotion Soronarr]

Does the conversation even change depending on gender?

[erilben]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Does the conversation even change depending on gender?

Yes. Some of the dialog changes based on gender.

[SirGladiator]

Obviously Isabella is bisexual, she was in DAO as well. Merrill I dont think is really defined so much, she's pretty much whatever you want her to be. That's the best way. In answer to a previous question, I havent noticed gender playing a role in the Merrill romance with Lady Hawke (Im not all the way through it yet though), except that in one of the conversations Merrill has with Isabella about it, Merrill uses the word 'she' in reference to Lady Hawke, being used to having to play certain romances via mod its a refreshing change now to have the pronouns be right .

[Morocius]

I always suspected most elves would swing both ways, and Isabella was a given. Only Anders was surprising even more so as subtlety seems lost on him/them.

[AkiKishi]

It works well for Merril, not so much for the others.

That's if we are talking long term rather than just sex.

[Jazharah]

Oy! Sebastian swings only one way!

[erilben]

SirGladiator wrote...

Obviously Isabella is bisexual, she was in DAO as well. Merrill I dont think is really defined so much, she's pretty much whatever you want her to be. That's the best way. In answer to a previous question, I havent noticed gender playing a role in the Merrill romance with Lady Hawke (Im not all the way through it yet though), except that in one of the conversations Merrill has with Isabella about it, Merrill uses the word 'she' in reference to Lady Hawke, being used to having to play certain romances via mod its a refreshing change now to have the pronouns be right .

Some dialog changes and you wouldn't even be able to tell it unless you played as a male. With male Hawke, Merrill says something about the issue about how elf/human pairings have human babies. Female Hawke doesn't get this, and gets some different dialog instead.

[Mox Ruuga]

erilben wrote...


Some dialog changes and you wouldn't even be able to tell it unless you played as a male. With male Hawke, Merrill says something about the issue about how elf/human pairings have human babies. Female Hawke doesn't get this, and gets some different dialog instead.

The whole "elven women having human babies" is a bit of a FridgeHorror topic given the radical redesign of elves. Those are not exactly "child bearing hips" they have... I wonder how many die in childbirth?

[Drake Sigar]

Sexuality is not something cosmetic like hair colour, it’s supposed to be a part of who a character is. When just about everybody has completely interchangeable sexualities, it gives those characters less depth.

Modifié par Drake Sigar, 22 mars 2011 - 10:41 .

[EccentricSage]

[quote]Mox Ruuga wrote...

[quote]EccentricSage wrote...

Ballsy, but less immersive for many role players.  It's only natural when one is spending a lot of time with a small group of people, that sparks will fly, and people will want to act out on those feelings.  This is doubly true in times of trouble, when you feel like it can all be over in days.  [/quote]

Well, depends on how they set the story up. What if there are no long term companions, for example?[/quote]
Then the player feels alone in the world, and an element of story telling would be missing if characters aren't around long enough for the player to develop meaningful relationships.  As much as I love Elder Scrolls, for example, I do get lonely in those games.

[quote]
Or our character starts married?[/quote]
What if I don't like my marriage?

[quote]
Or is incapable of love for some reason?[/quote]

Could make the PC imposible for many people to relate to, and is also very limiting on how much the player can role play.

[quote]
There are options, and we have seen the typically structured Bioware RPG romance a few too many times now, I'm thinking.[/quote]

I agree RPG romances need to evolve with every game so that it does not start to feel formulated.  I am for the fact that one does not HAVE to choose a romance.  One of my Origins characters had no interest in romance. A couple others had highly disfunctional romances. 

[quote]I wish that Bioware would have the guts to give characters widely varried yet fully thought out and distinctive sexual identities, though.  If I have to play a male character to romance the gay character, cool, I get to have a gay story line.  What's wrong with that?  I think, if given enough development time and propper care and tact, RPGs with characters like that would really encourage players step into other people's shoes instead of needing their PC to be a fairy tale version of themselves every playthrough. 

I fear that if characters do not have their own distinct sexual identity, we'll miss out on a lot of good story telling.  I hate the idea of pretending sexuality is a non issue in fiction, because that is not relatable.

[/quote]

[quote]
Agreed there. Hell, I prefer to treat Leliana as a lesbian more or less, and tend to romance her exclusively with female characters. I'm sure there are people who prefer to pair Zevran with a male character, tho I feel he is more clearly written as a bisexual canonwise than Leli. Anders, though I loathe the character, could be plausibly portrayed as fully gay. If I liked the character (and the actual game) better, I think I would create a Chantry true believer ManHawke Paladin type for him to have a Rivalmance with.[/quote][/quote]

Yeah, Lelliana came off, for me too, as preffering women.  Even if she does use sex and romance to manipulate men.  When she came onto my male characters, it didn't feel right... something about it felt artificial.  But then, she generally creeped me out, and I think she is much more deaply mentally and emotionally disturbed than we really get to explore.

Oddly, Alistair and Morrigan didn't feel streight to me, though... alistair seemed to me like someone who had set ideas about what a normal life and relationship is supposed to be, but I got a really bicurious vibe.  Like he's the type who's normally too chaste and prude to feel comfortable about sex in general, but if a man made him FEAL love/loved, and seduced him... I could see it.  But then, David Gaider DID say that he originally intended for Alistair to be open to bisexual romance, but it got cut due to budget contraints.

Morrigan, with all her talk about sex just being this thing people do, and her hatred of all civilised social convention, surprised me that she was not open to at least trying F/F.  But then, I think a lot of that attitude was a front, because she was afraid to have human emotions in the first place, so I guess it's beleavable that she surprised us by not being bisexual, and actually wanting monogamy.

I though Zevran's sexuality was the most 'real', though.  I really fealt like his bisexuality was a fully intergrated part of his backstory, identity, the way he reacts to people... and his alusions to various kinks made sense for his character as well.  I really got a sense of him not just happening to go ether way, but having a fully self examined and set of preferences, standards, and personal philosophy.  Funny that his was the sexuality that upset the most people.  lol  Well, good writing should be a little controversial.

My first Origins romance experience was a Dalish male who just couldn't wait to find someone to bond with.  He was very lonely away from his clan.  He started with Morrigan who fascinated him, but turned kind of austere and made him uncomfortable once their relationship started to go somewhere.  Alistair's sensitive side really made him want to jump his bones, but allas, I could not even propose such a thing.  Finally I got Zevran, who fascinated and frightened him all at the same time.  It wasn't long before he dumped Morrigan for Zevran and they had the most perfect romance... really, they fit together so rediculously well.

It actually became hard for me to imagine romancing Zevran with a femWarden after that, but this attitude was not to last.  My female Elven Mage with Templar issues is determined to have a fairy tale life with her white knight Alistair, but really her and Zevran would be a MUCH better match, and I know she's headed for heartbreak.  Besides, her and Al get along less and less at that playthrough progresses.  lol  It's funny how organic it feels in Origins.

I tend to play males a lot, for some reason though.  I have issues with femininity. 

I'm intrigued by Anders.  I don't have Awakening or DA2 yet.  I'd like to see if I can pick up awakening cheep enough yet, and DA2... well... it's going to ether have to be very heavily discounted, or some of the most masive revamping done post-release.  It does not meet my standards for a $60 PC game. 

Rivalmance sounds awesome.  I can just imagine the angry hate sex.  lol

Modifié par EccentricSage, 22 mars 2011 - 10:50 .

[erilben]

EccentricSage wrote...

 But then, David Gaider DID say that he originally intended for Alistair to be open to bisexual romance, but it got cut due to budget contraints.

Do you have a link? I read the opposite. That Alistair was always meant to be a romance for female player only.