79 réponses à ce sujet

[Radwar]

Lithuasil wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I really don't like the MMO battle design which makes you feel you fight raid bosses. It's bad enough in MMOs where you can't really avoid it, but in a single player game there should not be enemies with ridiculously high health pools. Especially when they use rather poor tactics. Better raise the enemy AI, and have them a more 'realistic' healthpool.

Problem is, you can't do that, without overhauling the combat as a whole to something based on playerskill and reflexes. In other words, you can't do that, as long as there's a crowd of self proclaimed old school roleplayers outside your building, demanding Baldurs Gate 3.

I'm sorry but making a Diablo clone is not what I want DA to become. It's already gone too far with it's simplicity and over the top combat compared to DAO.

[Morning808]

I had a great single fight with him everytime! My Warrior had a hell of a hard time while my mage destoryed him

[Arppis]

I love "fair" fights, that's why I play warrior, the most honest of all classes. So yeah, this sucks. I appriciate strategy and all, but it's just annoying to run around the room with horned devil behind you. Hah.

[Radwar]

Wulfram said it best when he said DA aren't the type of games for single combat. DA have lot's of team based combat, and they should've just stuck with that.

[Morning808]

Radwar wrote...

Wulfram said it best when he said DA aren't the type of games for single combat. DA have lot's of team based combat, and they should've just stuck with that.

He is ment to be strong because he is strong and to them its an honor to fight one against one, plus you can fight him with your entire team

[ongnei]

AlexXIV, in the trailer the soldier attacking the arishok are not templar, they are city guards..If you all dont wish to duel just give the relic to Isabella, then the entire Qunari+Arishok will attack your entire party, which to me is alot easier and 'fair'.

[Lithuasil]

Radwar wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I really don't like the MMO battle design which makes you feel you fight raid bosses. It's bad enough in MMOs where you can't really avoid it, but in a single player game there should not be enemies with ridiculously high health pools. Especially when they use rather poor tactics. Better raise the enemy AI, and have them a more 'realistic' healthpool.

Problem is, you can't do that, without overhauling the combat as a whole to something based on playerskill and reflexes. In other words, you can't do that, as long as there's a crowd of self proclaimed old school roleplayers outside your building, demanding Baldurs Gate 3.

I'm sorry but making a Diablo clone is not what I want DA to become. It's already gone too far with it's simplicity and over the top combat compared to DAO.

Don't think Diablo, think Dark Messiah of Might and Magic - a combat system that enhances immersion, rather then increasing the gap between cutscenes and gameplay.

[Radwar]

Morning808 wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Wulfram said it best when he said DA aren't the type of games for single combat. DA have lot's of team based combat, and they should've just stuck with that.

He is ment to be strong because he is strong and to them its an honor to fight one against one, plus you can fight him with your entire team

Well, Isabella was my love interest and I wanted to defend her, didn't know the fight would turn out to be total crap.

[Tsarapihelas]

The thing that ruined combat in this game was having nearly every Lieutenant/Elite/Boss NPC have 3-5 Health Poultices to use. It was just ridiculously stupid, especially on higher levels.

[TheAwesomologist]

I had no problems with my Mage soloing the Arishok besides that it started to drag a little. That and I was already experiencing the speed bug from Isabella/Sebastian.
The boss fight that sucked for me was the rock wraith. I had my mage, Varric, Isabella, and Aveline. Isabella went down in like 2 mins, Varric followed shortly there after. Aveline stuck around for much of the fight but I almost ran out of potions by then and decided to save them for Hawke. After those three fell I basically soloed the Rock Wraith through 1 more wave of little wraiths and ran around the damn room sacrificing my dog when I could. Took like 15mins soloing that thing. I considered going back and trying it again but I was so bothered by how bad that fight was I just let it be.

[Morning808]

Radwar wrote...

Morning808 wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Wulfram said it best when he said DA aren't the type of games for single combat. DA have lot's of team based combat, and they should've just stuck with that.

He is ment to be strong because he is strong and to them its an honor to fight one against one, plus you can fight him with your entire team

Well, Isabella was my love interest and I wanted to defend her, didn't know the fight would turn out to be total crap.

I think you can give her the book back and your entire team fights

[Radwar]

Lithuasil wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I really don't like the MMO battle design which makes you feel you fight raid bosses. It's bad enough in MMOs where you can't really avoid it, but in a single player game there should not be enemies with ridiculously high health pools. Especially when they use rather poor tactics. Better raise the enemy AI, and have them a more 'realistic' healthpool.

Problem is, you can't do that, without overhauling the combat as a whole to something based on playerskill and reflexes. In other words, you can't do that, as long as there's a crowd of self proclaimed old school roleplayers outside your building, demanding Baldurs Gate 3.

I'm sorry but making a Diablo clone is not what I want DA to become. It's already gone too far with it's simplicity and over the top combat compared to DAO.

Don't think Diablo, think Dark Messiah of Might and Magic - a combat system that enhances immersion, rather then increasing the gap between cutscenes and gameplay.

Although I liked DMoM&M for what it was, that's not what DA is and I'd rather it stayed that way rather than turn it into an action game with very minor rpg elements. There's Skyrim coming out if that's what interests you.

[Lithuasil]

Radwar wrote...

Although I liked DMoM&M for what it was, that's not what DA is and I'd rather it stayed that way rather than turn it into an action game with very minor rpg elements. There's Skyrim coming out if that's what interests you.

What DA is, is a Game focusing on narrative and immersion. What DA therefore needs, is a combat system that isn't diablo/baldurs gate, but one that actually serves to connect gameplay and dialogue/cutscenes. And that's what Dark Messiah did, at least among the games I've played, best.

[Skyplant]

Radwar wrote...

I'm talking about the battle against the Arishok. I believe an incredibly bad boss fight is when you make the boss too strong compared to the player (thus removing anything exciting about the fight in this type of game). It's really bad when the player has to resort to running in circles accross the room, attack a little, run, drink potion, attack a little, run, etc. It's just tedious and not exciting at all.

It would've been better if it was like the warden's fight against Loghain but just made it a tougher fight (because that one was a little too easy).

Anyway, that's how I felt after that fight.

Really??? I thought the boss battles in this game were far too easy, I think my whole party died twice during the entire playthrough.

[samoht_okpoh]

Why kite when you can circle?

[ExiledMimic]

Tank warriors could stand in the Arishok's face and headbutt him to death while screaming obscenities about his mother. My 2 hander warrior blew him down by unloading (but I'd but points into willpower to have tons of stamina and a stamina returner) but even then I had to circle the pillar twice since I had an ability on cooldown. Honestly I dunno how a rogue or mage could even take a shot from this guy.

I find it so sad that the duel fight isn't edge of the seat and not some boss fight where your healer died.

[1varangian]

The Loghain fight was a horrible anti-climax because you could drink any amount of potions to win the fight. He was the more skilled combatant but he didn't have a ridiculous stack of potions like the player (or Alistair) did. So the potions won the fight, not the player. Not very epic or satisfying at all.

The Arishok fight was a horrible anti-climax (as a Mage) because he was immune to most spells and you had to kite him for ages while slowly gnawing at his inflated HP pool and waiting on potion cooldowns. Not very epic or satisfying at all.

Those fights are a very good reason for an RPG to have a good combat system that doesn't revolve around giving bosses 100x more HP than the player and giving them immunities. If same rules apply to the boss and the player the combat rests on a good foundation. Skill will matter instead of potions and the fight will look epic and believable without having to resort to kiting or other arcade game tactics.

[Kylenne]

1varangian wrote...

The Loghain fight was a horrible anti-climax because you could drink any amount of potions to win the fight. He was the more skilled combatant but he didn't have a ridiculous stack of potions like the player (or Alistair) did. So the potions won the fight, not the player. Not very epic or satisfying at all.

The Arishok fight was a horrible anti-climax (as a Mage) because he was immune to most spells and you had to kite him for ages while slowly gnawing at his inflated HP pool and waiting on potion cooldowns. Not very epic or satisfying at all.

Those fights are a very good reason for an RPG to have a good combat system that doesn't revolve around giving bosses 100x more HP than the player and giving them immunities. If same rules apply to the boss and the player the combat rests on a good foundation. Skill will matter instead of potions and the fight will look epic and believable without having to resort to kiting or other arcade game tactics.

The Loghain fight was an utter joke as a Mage, not one potion needed even on Nightmare, and I wasn't even Arcane Warrior spec that time. I slapped down a Glyph of Repulsion or w/e and watched him headbutt it over and over again like a bird trying to fly into a glass patio door. Arishok was a boring kitefest, it wasn't at all difficult, just drawn out and tedious. Though it did get vastly more entertaining when I played Yakety Sax in the background. I agree with whomever said too many bosses in this game felt like MMO bosses: ginormous health bars that just serve to draw things out, "don't stand in fire" as the sole tactic to pay attention to, adds coming out of nowhere for no reason, etc. The Arishok duel was just Icehowl from Trial of the Crusader on WoW copypasta'd for soloing. It just felt so "video gamey" where the fights in Origins didn't, if that makes any sense.

The only fight that really threw me in this one (at least on Hard) was Fenris in the Fade during Night Terrors, playing a mage Hawke against him sucked, especially considering I was totally unprepared to fight him (I stupidly thought the fact he was my boyfriend would keep him from turning). I'd twinked him out to serve as my tank and apparently I did it a bit too well because he one shot me so many times I almost went to Aveline to file domestic violence charges. It didn't help that his was the second temptation scene I got to so all I had by then was Anders and the dog. I finally gave up and slipped him a Maker's Sigh potion on my final reload, ha.

Modifié par Kylenne, 23 mars 2011 - 12:59 .

[R-F]

The fight was more interesting with all the Qunari fighting as well. I duelled him as a warrior and i trapped him against the door to the throne room. We slugged it out for like 10 mins and he impaled me twice. Boring compared to not earning his respect.

[Beaynid]

Radwar wrote...

I'm talking about the battle against the Arishok. I believe an incredibly bad boss fight is when you make the boss too strong compared to the player (thus removing anything exciting about the fight in this type of game). It's really bad when the player has to resort to running in circles accross the room, attack a little, run, drink potion, attack a little, run, etc. It's just tedious and not exciting at all.

It would've been better if it was like the warden's fight against Loghain but just made it a tougher fight (because that one was a little too easy).

Anyway, that's how I felt after that fight.

i actually got a laugh out of my character performing 'the better part of valor' in the duel with the arishok, otherwise known as running scaredy legs around, smacking a few times, using a pot and running around some more.

It was one of the only fights i had to ever do it for and i enjoyed it for the pure comedic value(especially considering afterwards when people talk about how amazed they are that you fought and killed the arishok in the 1 on 1 duel to save the city, when most of the fight i was running away)

I didnt even mind the reload the first time i did it because i tried the stand and fight method and got hammered.

when i finally downed him, all i could think of was the 'conan the destroyer' victory music replaying as the thief sticks the dagger into the already dead enemy.

[Maria Caliban]

The only bad boss battle is the one at the end. It's an obvious shoe-horn because you need not one but two boss battles for a truly epic game.

[Evelane]

ive tried the arishok at nightmare.. after almost 30 minutes running around the room and him almost down.. ive died because i tough i could kill him but he killed me frist.. XD .. always dueling him in my playtrough.. may try something else for my 2th rogue

[Radwar]

Lithuasil wrote...

Radwar wrote...

Although I liked DMoM&M for what it was, that's not what DA is and I'd rather it stayed that way rather than turn it into an action game with very minor rpg elements. There's Skyrim coming out if that's what interests you.

What DA is, is a Game focusing on narrative and immersion. What DA therefore needs, is a combat system that isn't diablo/baldurs gate, but one that actually serves to connect gameplay and dialogue/cutscenes. And that's what Dark Messiah did, at least among the games I've played, best.

Im sorry but I'd prefer that DA remains a tactical RPG like Origins was. I prefer those kinds of battles. I have no interest in DA becoming a first person type of game.

[sestrensaz]

Kylenne wrote...

Arishok was a boring kitefest, it wasn't at all difficult, just drawn out and tedious. Though it did get vastly more entertaining when I played Yakety Sax in the background.

LOL! That's exactly the same thought I had during that duel playing as a mage... it's hilariously undignified to run around like a scared goat as he chases after you waving his swords!  For those 10-15 minutes all I could hear was Yakety Sax drifting around in my head. xD