124 réponses à ce sujet

[viverravid]

There has to be some story/gameplay disconnect, but it is kind of grating when it's an issue that is integral to the story. There are some extra conversation options if you are a mage, it's just inconsistent.

Worse, I just had Anders and Ser Cullen get into an argument about something, and Ser Cullen openly called him a mage. At the Gallows. With a gazillion templars standing about. Right, then. I guess no one messes with Hawke.

(see, even if they added something like that, it would sort of make a little sense - it's near the end of Act II, Hawke is the Viscount's favourite, no-one messes with the Viscount. Oh, except Merideth runs the town and the Viscount takes her orders. Oh well)

Modifié par viverravid, 22 mars 2011 - 01:05 .

[kamidutten]

Ok shure, you get different dialouges when you play a mage, it IS a different gaming experience. The problem is that my character is in Kirkwall, a city that is hell bent on finding apostates and bringing them in to the circle to be controleld or be made tranquil.

It should be like beeing a Jew in 1930's Germany, but instead its like beeing Goth in New York, no one really cares but notices that you have a dress on you.

"Oh s*it its the templars, hide her!"
"Oh hello there Serah Templar, no no we dident see a fireball fly past here and hit that generic enemy over there, why he is in bits in pieces you ask? Well i belive he just tripped and fell"

Thats almost how it should be when flinging spells in Kirkwall, instead we get:

"We are under attack! Quickly fill the entire area with AoE spells!"
*A templar stepps forward, he was standing there watching the entire fight*
"Hello Serah Hawke"
"Sup?"
"Have you seen any apostates latley?"
"Nope, i havent..." *Interrupts talking since an enemy is still alive, casts a chain lightning, killing him outright and then continues to speak to the templar*
"No, no apostates at all Serah Templar"
"Ok then, have a nice night Serah Hawke"
*templar starts skipping away uttering HURR DURR HURR DURR all the way to the hanged man*

[kyles3]

Lycidas wrote...

Does anyone remember Baldur's Gate II? If you used magic within the main city (Athkatla) of that game the Cowled Wizards would instantly attack you. Good times...

Yeah, if only everything could be like it was ten years ago. 

[Lycidas]

kyles3 wrote...

Lycidas wrote...

Does anyone remember Baldur's Gate II? If you used magic within the main city (Athkatla) of that game the Cowled Wizards would instantly attack you. Good times...

Yeah, if only everything could be like it was ten years ago. 

Noooo! Having the game actually respond to what you do would make people quit after one hour. Nobody liked things like that even back then...honest!

Modifié par Lycidas, 22 mars 2011 - 01:28 .

[Maverick827]

viverravid wrote...

Worse, I just had Anders and Ser Cullen get into an argument about something, and Ser Cullen openly called him a mage. At the Gallows. With a gazillion templars standing about. Right, then. I guess no one messes with Hawke. 

Anders is a Gray Warden.

If any Templars tried anything with my mage, Anders would just invoke the Rite of Conscription.  It's hard to move against an opponent when they have such a checkmate prepared.

[Chaos_1001]

Aethena wrote...

So I noticed this in DA:O, and its even more apparent in DA:2.... Perhaps I'm missing something.

So if your mage your either A: An Apostate or B: Bound to the Circle never to leave...

During the beginning you run into Aveline and her husband and her husband knew right away that your sister (and you if you chose mage) are a mage... Yet not a single other NPC or Templar who are TRAINED FOR YEARS to sniff out apostates and recognize them, notice that your a mage...

Why is this? It kinda breaks the whole illusion of me hiding from templars when I can walk around with a staff on my back and mage clothing as though its an everyday thing.

There are even quests where you show yourself as a mage (despite the obvious staff on ur back and mage clothing), by making your hand light up... /facepalm

Then again I suppose I could just say its my Halloween costume :innocent: Thats what all the cool kids are doing these days right? dressing up as mages *thumbs up*

In my adventures as it were I learned the answer(s) to your questions that go something like this.

In Origins, no matter how you did your quest in the circle tower, you , the player helped a blood mage and defied the templars. After said event , just as the templars were going to bring the hammer down on you, Duncan intervened and acted out the right of conscription making the mage ( player ) a grey warden recruit.

In the case of DA 2 the player ( and apostate mage ) ran into and helped save Aveline and her husband (which was a templar ) and agree to a temporary truce . As time went on the templar / apostate fued that did exist for Aveline dissapated as Aveline discovered for herself there was more to the player ( aspostate ) than met the eye. As for the city of kirkwall's reactions to the player (apostate) , they were focused not on the apostates but the circle themselves. Yes they were against mages and honestly treated the main character accordingly a lot. Until a certain event in act 2. Where the main character proved themself before the whole city .As a bonus to this , the main character was not part of the templars or the circle making their situation "unique"

[Aethena]

aftohsix wrote...

 If they didn't have time to make multiple unique caves do you really think they had time to record extra dialogue for NPCs realizing you're a mage.
.

Because the game was rushed, which in and of itself tehre is no good excuse. But is an excuse of why everything in the game is lacking lol

[Aethena]

kamidutten wrote...

Ok shure, you get different dialouges when you play a mage, it IS a different gaming experience. The problem is that my character is in Kirkwall, a city that is hell bent on finding apostates and bringing them in to the circle to be controleld or be made tranquil.

It should be like beeing a Jew in 1930's Germany, but instead its like beeing Goth in New York, no one really cares but notices that you have a dress on you.

"Oh s*it its the templars, hide her!"
"Oh hello there Serah Templar, no no we dident see a fireball fly past here and hit that generic enemy over there, why he is in bits in pieces you ask? Well i belive he just tripped and fell"

Thats almost how it should be when flinging spells in Kirkwall, instead we get:

"We are under attack! Quickly fill the entire area with AoE spells!"
*A templar stepps forward, he was standing there watching the entire fight*
"Hello Serah Hawke"
"Sup?"
"Have you seen any apostates latley?"
"Nope, i havent..." *Interrupts talking since an enemy is still alive, casts a chain lightning, killing him outright and then continues to speak to the templar*
"No, no apostates at all Serah Templar"
"Ok then, have a nice night Serah Hawke"
*templar starts skipping away uttering HURR DURR HURR DURR all the way to the hanged man*

lol couldnt of said it better myself

[Rafe34]

kyles3 wrote...

As long as the game gives you a choice about who your character is, there are going to be compromises in how extensively the world can react to who your character is. You wanted choice, you got choice. Enjoy.

And besides, being a mage in DA2 is still the most interesting class choice from a storyline perspective because of all the unique dialogue you get. It's a huge improvement over DA:O.

Bull****.

This type of attitude is why we started settling for these kinds of things in the first place.

See: Baldur's Gate, where there were negative consequences to doing certain things, (wasn't that made by the same company, lol?) DA:O at least had a rational explanation why they couldn't touch your mage, DA2 doesn't even try. How on earth anyone can say DA2 is better is just completely beyond me. I can see people liking ME1 better than ME2, and vice versa, I can't see anyone besides a pure hack n slash gamer who would prefer DA2 over DAO.

[Aithieel]

Chiramu wrote...

And blood mages attack you on sight, it's just like "HEY GUYS I'M ON YOUR SIDE!"

+

Exacly!

[Cyr8]

I thought it was hilarious when my mage was questing with Meryll on the 'release Ashur Bellenar' quest and she was surprised that Meryll was a mage. I was like 'WTF, do you not see the mage staff on her back?'

[Obadiah]

Aethena wrote...
...
During the beginning you run into Aveline and her husband and her husband knew right away that your sister (and you if you chose mage) are a mage... Yet not a single other NPC or Templar who are TRAINED FOR YEARS to sniff out apostates and recognize them, notice that your a mage...

Why is this? It kinda breaks the whole illusion of me hiding from templars when I can walk around with a staff on my back and mage clothing as though its an everyday thing.
...

Indeed. The first time I played Origins after getting Morrigan in the group in the Korcari Wilds, I swapped her outfit and staff for some leather armor and a bow, thinking her outfit was too obvious. Only later did I realise that the narrative was built to not recognize her, even while obviously buffing and blasting her way through the Circle Tower, Redcliffe, and Denerim.

I figure the devs had a story to tell and just didn't want to deal with it.

Modifié par Obadiah, 22 mars 2011 - 02:33 .

[Cyr8]

Rafe34 wrote...
See: Baldur's Gate, where there were negative consequences to doing certain things, (wasn't that made by the same company, lol?) DA:O at least had a rational explanation why they couldn't touch your mage, DA2 doesn't even try.

That is a totally legitimate point. In DA:O even if a Templar wanted to he couldn't touch you as a mage because you are a Grey Warden. In this one, you start out as a low member of society, so it's a wonder that the Templars let you run around, especially with Knight Commander Meredith. There should have been at least a quest or scenario or simething at the beginning where you are granted a pardon or something, followed by resentment by the other mages that you are allowed to run about the city while they are stuck in the Gallows.

[wicked_being]

I was casting fireballs and summoning tempests and even Knight Captain Cullen didn't know I was a mage.

[ongnei]

hey in my story bethany was taken away by the templar, is there anyway I can get her back? I almost feel sorry for my character to live alone in a big mansion..

[rwilli80]

Could it be that there is a difference in the Templars that guard the city/Gallows and those that actually got out into the world and hunt Apostates? I doubt it, but it would answer some of these questions, although yes throwing around spells in front of them would be a dead give away, but as someone here already stated, the Kirkwall Templars do seem more interested with capturing run away mages and keeping the Circle mages under thumb then hunting for Apostates.

[JohnstonMR]

Lycidas wrote...

Does anyone remember Baldur's Gate II? If you used magic within the main city (Athkatla) of that game the Cowled Wizards would instantly attack you. Good times...

Yet even there, they only attacked me the once, then they never bothered me again. 

[Rafe34]

Obadiah wrote...

Aethena wrote...
...
During the beginning you run into Aveline and her husband and her husband knew right away that your sister (and you if you chose mage) are a mage... Yet not a single other NPC or Templar who are TRAINED FOR YEARS to sniff out apostates and recognize them, notice that your a mage...

Why is this? It kinda breaks the whole illusion of me hiding from templars when I can walk around with a staff on my back and mage clothing as though its an everyday thing.
...

Indeed. The first time I played Origins after getting Morrigan in the group in the Korcari Wilds, I swapped her outfit and staff for some leather armor and a bow, thinking her outfit was too obvious. Only later did I realise that the narrative was built to not recognize her, even while obviously buffing and blasting her way through the Circle Tower, Redcliffe, and Denerim.

I figure the devs had a story to tell and just didn't want to deal with it.

I believe there actually was some sort of plan to have it so that the Templars would recognize Morrigan- or something.

There's a mod over on DA Nexus that restores the content, albeit a bit poorer than Bioware could have done.

[JohnstonMR]

Y'know, it occurs to me that the templars keep saying they know things work differently in other countries. And there ARE some templars who know what you are and pretty much admit they don't care. So maybe they assume you are a member of another circle, and thus not their problem?

Or perhaps Aveline is protecting you somehow?

I dunno. I have to admit, it doesn't bother me nearly as much as the recycled caverns, which are just silly. Still, I'm enjoying the story.

[madisoncb15]

You'd think that since Mage Hawke is canon, there'd be a quest in the Mage storyline only where, say in Act 1 when you're unimportant, your mage is caught my templars (similar to the if you die you are captured scene after rescuing the queen in DAO/Denerim) and you have to escape and get back to Kirkwall. Hell, it would make sense that if you unlock the Blood Mage specialization, it triggers this....but no, nobody cares that you're a blood mage running around without a leash. Not like the other 99% of blood mages aren't being hunted or anything...

[Oliver Sudden]

kamidutten wrote...

"Oh s*it its the templars, hide her!"
"Oh hello there Serah Templar, no no we dident see a fireball fly past here and hit that generic enemy over there, why he is in bits in pieces you ask? Well i belive he just tripped and fell"

To be fair, as easy as it is for enemies to explode in this game, that's a perfectly reasonable explanation.

[Maverick827]

Rafe34 wrote...

See: Baldur's Gate, where there were negative consequences to doing certain things, (wasn't that made by the same company, lol?) DA:O at least had a rational explanation why they couldn't touch your mage, DA2 doesn't even try. How on earth anyone can say DA2 is better is just completely beyond me. I can see people liking ME1 better than ME2, and vice versa, I can't see anyone besides a pure hack n slash gamer who would prefer DA2 over DAO.

Games have a fixed ratio between content and complexity.  The less complex a project is to develop (say, a text-based adventure) the more relative content can be added.  The more complex a project is to develop (a AAA title in 2011), the less relative content can be added (consequently, the more content that is added, the more complex a project becomes to develop).

If complexity scaled linearly, perhaps this wouldn't be a problem, but games cost exponentially more today than they did ten years ago.

[Zhijn]

The AI is well aware that they will explode into a gooey mess if they try anything naughty with you!. xD

[Talisk]

Aethena wrote...

kamidutten wrote...

Ok shure, you get different dialouges when you play a mage, it IS a different gaming experience. The problem is that my character is in Kirkwall, a city that is hell bent on finding apostates and bringing them in to the circle to be controleld or be made tranquil.

It should be like beeing a Jew in 1930's Germany, but instead its like beeing Goth in New York, no one really cares but notices that you have a dress on you.

"Oh s*it its the templars, hide her!"
"Oh hello there Serah Templar, no no we dident see a fireball fly past here and hit that generic enemy over there, why he is in bits in pieces you ask? Well i belive he just tripped and fell"

Thats almost how it should be when flinging spells in Kirkwall, instead we get:

"We are under attack! Quickly fill the entire area with AoE spells!"
*A templar stepps forward, he was standing there watching the entire fight*
"Hello Serah Hawke"
"Sup?"
"Have you seen any apostates latley?"
"Nope, i havent..." *Interrupts talking since an enemy is still alive, casts a chain lightning, killing him outright and then continues to speak to the templar*
"No, no apostates at all Serah Templar"
"Ok then, have a nice night Serah Hawke"
*templar starts skipping away uttering HURR DURR HURR DURR all the way to the hanged man*

lol couldnt of said it better myself

This entire post has literally made my day.
And Yes, I am aware of how sad that is.

[salbine]

Aethena wrote...
THe problem is that the game was rushed... Your ok with being a mage in Dragon Age Origins because your a Grey Warden, and Grey Wardens can be mages without having to go to the Circle or being an Apostate. 

In DA:O, you were okay, but you weren't the only mage strolling around outside the Circle. Every enemy group had a mage or two in it, including those in town. And what about Morrigan? I like the DA world, but the mage flaw is unfortunate and immersion-breaking.