124 réponses à ce sujet

[Kendaric Varkellen]

kyles3 wrote...

Kendaric Varkellen wrote...

It breaks immersion for those of us who actually care about the game's lore.

If your immersion is so easily broken, maybe you don't care enough about the lore. 

Yeah, right... having Cullen not react to Hawke or a companion after a certain fight in act 1 is obviously not breaking immersion. Oh, wait... wasn't the Cullen the guy from Ferelden who took a rather harsh stance due to Uldred's deeds in the Ferelden Circle a year ago? I guess that's a good reason to completely ignore an apostate right in front of you.

[CaptainZaysh]

I'm a big fan of the second game, but I had to restart it after playing through Act 1 because of this problem.

I am enjoying my second replay immensely because when there are witnesses about, I follow certain rules for my mage PC:

1. No flashy spells. Horror/Mind Blast/Hexes/Healing are fine, but no fireballs please.

2. Pretend the staff on your back is a quarterstaff. Melee attacks with it only. (The starting staff looks good as a blunt weapon to me. Anything more arcane looking stays under wraps until we're out of the city.)

3. No dressing like a witch. Apostate Robes/Mercenary Banded Leathers (or whatever they're called) only inside the city walls.

4. No mage companions inside the city unless you can be sure they won't get in a combat somewhere public.

This has made the city part of the game a lot more fun for me, and the times when I can pull out the Staff of Parlathan and rain fireballs and ice storms on the enemies now feel a lot more epic (and go a long way to explaining why everybody is so terrified of mages). That said I play this game on Casual only so it's not a fix for many of the posters here.

[Stephenc13]

I understood why you were able to leave The Circle in DA:O
but Dragon Age II doesn't really even acknowledge that you're an apostate mage besides in the rare few conversations.

[IronVanguard]

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

It's the needs of the story, alas.

It's kinda like Superman comics wouldn't work if everyone wasn't fooled by Clark Kent taking off his classes and dressing in a cape. It's silly, but it's one of those things where the audience/player is supposed to suspend their disbelief.

If you start to look for them, there are such things all over not only DA2, but any cRPG - for example, you can typically carry around an armory's worth of weapons and big bulky armor, yet nobody's even wearing so much as a backpack. In reality, you'd need a mule drawing a cart behind you.

Bags of holding and invisible mules, obviously.

[JamieCOTC]

There is suspension of disbelief and then there is hanging it by the neck until dead. DA2 hangs Mage Hake's immersion and lets it rot until the flesh falls from its bones. Seriously, this bugged me more than any other aspect of the story. It actually breaks the lore of the story it is trying to tell.

[Phwrobel]

Lycidas wrote...

Does anyone remember Baldur's Gate II? If you used magic within the main city (Athkatla) of that game the Cowled Wizards would instantly attack you. Good times...

Yet in the original source material, the cowled wizards were a secret society of wizards that hid their magical powers from everyone to avoid being persecuted for their magic as amnian society feared and loathed wizards. It was only following BG2 that they became the mage police of Amn.

[Verfallen]

I've mitigated the problem in two ways:

1. My MageHawke doesn't wear robes. Ever. Since robes are like wearing a large blinking billboard reading "Look! I'm a Mage!" and dad was an apostate too, it's just a rule he's kept to since day one, even if the blasted robes might be beneficial.

2. I play on PC, so installed the Hide Weapons mod.

It's not a perfect solution, but the suspension of disbelief isn't quite so much of a stretch.

Modifié par Staub33, 23 mars 2011 - 12:43 .

[Shamajotsi]

Maker, I miss Origins. When arriving in Lothering, nobody has any clue that you are a Gray Warden. So if you are a mage and accidentally expose yourself as such...

i.imgur.com/WVbsj.jpg

...especially when you are accompanied by a Qunnari, who is known to have slaughtered a whole family with almost all of the children there...

i.imgur.com/0aBCc.jpg

...you know that you are in for a big trouble with the templars...

i.imgur.com/xkphN.jpg

Also, remember all the times when you would order Leliana to pickpocket the poor dwellers of Orzammar Dust Town only to have her refuse, drop the approval to -100 and leave? Seriously, DA2 just cannot achieve the same level of immersion as Origins!

Modifié par Shamajotsi, 22 mars 2011 - 11:43 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Origins it made sense, because you didn't have to dress like a mage, and you didn't have to use a staff.

I really hate that the staff is mandatory in DA2.

[mesmerizedish]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

In Origins it made sense, because you didn't have to dress like a mage, and you didn't have to use a staff.

I really hate that the staff is mandatory in DA2.

Do you mean that mages have to use staves at the exclusion of other weapons? Or that you can't really unequip the staff?

There's a mod that hides staves and greatswords (because apparently they get in the way of looking cool?).

There's likely a mod somewhere that lets mages use other weapons, though I'm not sure how that would affect spell damage.

[Morroian]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

In Origins it made sense, because you didn't have to dress like a mage, and you didn't have to use a staff.

Yeah but if you didn't bother to do that it still didn't make a difference just like in DA2. Don't get me wrong I think there should be more consequences but DAO sufferred the same problem.

[Sylvius the Mad]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Do you mean that mages have to use staves at the exclusion of other weapons? Or that you can't really unequip the staff?

Both.

There's a mod that hides staves and greatswords (because apparently they get in the way of looking cool?).

There's likely a mod somewhere that lets mages use other weapons, though I'm not sure how that would affect spell damage.

I don't see why it would affect spell damage.  I'm not a fan of the mage auto-attack (I wasn't in DAO, either - most of my time spent on the tactics page was me trying to disable it), so having a staff doesn't really benefit me.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Morroian wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

In Origins it made sense, because you didn't have to dress like a mage, and you didn't have to use a staff.

Yeah but if you didn't bother to do that it still didn't make a difference just like in DA2. Don't get me wrong I think there should be more consequences but DAO sufferred the same problem.

If you want the game to be more responsive, then the game needs to be more restrictive with reagard to what you can do.  If you want people to notice that you're a mage, then you need to be recognisable as a mage.

I don't want the game to force the latter, so I'm willing to accept the absence of the former.

[Shamajotsi]

Morroian wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

In Origins it made sense, because you didn't have to dress like a mage, and you didn't have to use a staff.

Yeah but if you didn't bother to do that it still didn't make a difference just like in DA2. Don't get me wrong I think there should be more consequences but DAO sufferred the same problem.

No sarcasm this time, this is my point exactly. I would love to see the environment reacting to all your "small actions" in the future iterations of the franchise (no matter whether we are talking about DLC's, expansions, DA3, 4, 5, ...). However, when someone is bashing that DA2 lacked something that was neither present in DA:O, nor promised by the developers, one goes too far in the criticism.

[DieHigh2012]

Axe_Gaijin wrote...

*waves hand*

These aren't the Apostates you're looking for...

Templar: ............these are not the Apostates we are looking for.

[tmp7704]

Maverick827 wrote...

Anders is a Gray Warden.

If any Templars tried anything with my mage, Anders would just invoke the Rite of Conscription.  It's hard to move against an opponent when they have such a checkmate prepared.

Anders is former Grey Warden (in the sense he'd parted ways with them and not before murdering and literally eating some) who is hiding and claiming to be terrified of either Grey Wardens or Templars discovering his whereabouts.

Not to mention it'd be rather hard for him to prove he's a Grey Warden if he ever wanted to try that. It's not like there's a secret handshake to establish the credentials.

Modifié par tmp7704, 23 mars 2011 - 12:09 .

[tmp7704]

Sen4lifE wrote...

You're not exactly summoning demons to pray on villages, you're not as obvious as most hunted apostates.  A lot of apostates are not noticed throughout the game.

You use magic literally 10 minutes after landing in Kirkwall, right in the middle of the Gallows and in front of squad ot templars, no less. That is being far more obvious than most of the hunted apostates.

[imooumoo]

The mage effect is better on PC when you can just hide your weapons. However, when you rage out with magic, I just acted like the guards and Templar were not looking. Maybe, Aveline and Sebastien were paying off/ forcing the guards and Templar to not pay attention to your actions.

Remember, Aveline always says something like "Your always getting in trouble, so I'm looking out for you" or something along those lines.

[JamieCOTC]

imooumoo wrote...

The mage effect is better on PC when you can just hide your weapons. However, when you rage out with magic, I just acted like the guards and Templar were not looking. Maybe, Aveline and Sebastien were paying off/ forcing the guards and Templar to not pay attention to your actions.

Remember, Aveline always says something like "Your always getting in trouble, so I'm looking out for you" or something along those lines.

where is this thing of wonder you speak of? 

[DocDoomII]

JamieCOTC wrote...

imooumoo wrote...

The mage effect is better on PC when you can just hide your weapons. However, when you rage out with magic, I just acted like the guards and Templar were not looking. Maybe, Aveline and Sebastien were paying off/ forcing the guards and Templar to not pay attention to your actions.

Remember, Aveline always says something like "Your always getting in trouble, so I'm looking out for you" or something along those lines.

where is this thing of wonder you speak of? 

it's called modding, i believe

[JamieCOTC]

DocDoomII wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

imooumoo wrote...

The mage effect is better on PC when you can just hide your weapons. However, when you rage out with magic, I just acted like the guards and Templar were not looking. Maybe, Aveline and Sebastien were paying off/ forcing the guards and Templar to not pay attention to your actions.

Remember, Aveline always says something like "Your always getting in trouble, so I'm looking out for you" or something along those lines.

where is this thing of wonder you speak of? 

it's called modding, i believe

where is the file for this mod located? 

never mind. found it.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 23 mars 2011 - 01:12 .

[tmp7704]

JamieCOTC wrote...


where is the file for this mod located? 

never mind. found it.

http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=2150 for these still curious.

[0btuse]

Lycidas wrote...

Does anyone remember Baldur's Gate II? If you used magic within the main city (Athkatla) of that game the Cowled Wizards would instantly attack you. Good times...

Oh GOD YES! those were the f**kin days. I remember blasting them to pieces when i couldnt fork over cash for the license. ahhhhhhhh... yea

Rafe34 wrote...

kyles3 wrote...

As long as
the game gives you a choice about who your character is, there are going
to be compromises in how extensively the world can react to who your
character is. You wanted choice, you got choice. Enjoy.

And
besides, being a mage in DA2 is still the most interesting class choice
from a storyline perspective because of all the unique dialogue you get.
It's a huge improvement over DA:O.

Bull****.

This type of attitude is why we started settling for these kinds of things in the first place.

See:
Baldur's Gate, where there were negative consequences to doing certain
things, (wasn't that made by the same company, lol?) DA:O at least had a
rational explanation why they couldn't touch your mage, DA2 doesn't
even try. How on earth anyone can say DA2 is better is just completely
beyond me. I can see people liking ME1 better than ME2, and vice versa, I
can't see anyone besides a pure hack n slash gamer who would prefer DA2
over DAO.

I. Miss. Baldur's Gate. That was a time when Bioware was at its best. When it wasn't trying to appeal to the casual gamer [I don't think there were casual gamers back then. You were or you weren't]. DA:O was definately better than DA2. Even without the unforgivable bugs, the lack of a tactcal view in the game is a sad thing.

[Nyuneko]

Quite a lot of spoilers in a no spoilers forum... thanks anyway, now I know what will happen to Bethany. Yay.

[tmp7704]

Nyuneko wrote...

Quite a lot of spoilers in a no spoilers forum... thanks anyway, now I know what will happen to Bethany. Yay.

For what's worth there's more than one thing that can happen to your sibling