124 réponses à ce sujet

[ljbx349]

To be honest, I feel like just a few more simple scenes and dialogues could have made the mage profession make sense, at least for the latter half of the game (Assume mage hawke for following text)

When you face off against a certain bad guy in a certain building and become champion (that isn't a spoiler, because they call him the champion during the opening cutscene, right?) you could be arrested by the Templars and thrown into the gallows, at which point your status and Kirkwall's need of a champion could be reason for them to let you "free", but on a leash. A scene of heated discussion and arguements in a prison could pave the way for a semi-free mage character, in a situation that sort of makes sense.

Still, I can't think of a way to make the beginning mage parts make sense. Maybe they could have added that Hawke's father taught him / her various obscuring spells or illusion magic to confuse templars into ignoring his / her magic, or something. Still, feels like a few simple changes and additions could have made a semi believable mage themed story.

edit: of course there's the fact that Anders is a Grey Warden, too, and as we know from Origins that affords him a fair amount of "diplomatic immunity" with the Templars. They could have expanded on that, too.

Modifié par ljbx349, 23 mars 2011 - 03:26 .

[Zanallen]

I am of the opinion that the game assumes that your Hawke isn't stupid enough to go around hurling fireballs and creating thunder storms in the center of a city filled with Templars. Even in Baldur's Gate, you only had to deal with the Cowled Wizards once and then you could blast people as you pleased. Now, if Hawke could only be a mage, I could see the game being designed to recognize and react to your use of magic.

[viverravid]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I don't see why it would affect spell damage.  I'm not a fan of the mage auto-attack (I wasn't in DAO, either - most of my time spent on the tactics page was me trying to disable it), so having a staff doesn't really benefit me.

The DA2 spell damage system factors in your staff DPS when calculating spell damage. Devs said this was to encourage mages to upgrade. If this forum had a search feature,I could find you the thread (it's post release, I think on the Strategy or Builds board).

[Ricvenart]

There are several NPC's including templars in the story that are well aware of you being a mage, but choose to ignore it for the "good" you do, I think you being a noble has something to do with it, its made mention once or twice of money and position being enough to hide it for now.
Although your point still stands.

[hazmatzak]

ongnei wrote...

hey in my story bethany was ***SPOILER***

Not only is this off-topic, this is a NO-SPOILER FORUM. You posted this not once, but twice. Be ashamed.

Modifié par hazmatzak, 23 mars 2011 - 06:16 .

[Paeyne]

Hawke walks up to Knight Captain Cullen

Hawke: 'Greetings Captain, I wish to register a complaint."

(Cullen does not respond.)

H: 'Ello, Captin'?

(Hawke knocks on Cullen's helmet.)

Captain Cullen: "Please don't do that while I am studiously ignoring you.

H: I'm sorry, but. I wish to make a complaint!

C: We're closin' for lunch.

H: Never mind that, Captain. I wish to complain about your Templars.  I am a mage, a bloodmage to be precise.  Here I am casting spells everywhere and dripping blood from the wrists and your Templars refuse to arrest me.

C: Your not a mage.  If you were a mage my Templars would tell me and they haven't so your not.

H: Yes I am.

C: No your not.

H: Yes I AM.

C: Matthew, is this man casting spells and dripping from the wrists a mage?

Matthew:  No sir.  No mages around here.

(Hawke casts a spell at Matthew who explodes into hundreds of meaty bits.)

H: See, I am a mage.. a maleficarum!

C: No, your not.  If you were Matthew would have said so.

H: Matthew is dead.  I just killed him.

C: No, no, 'e's uh,...he's resting.

H: Look, matey, I know a dead Templar when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

C: No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable men, the Kirkwall Templar!  See what nice helmets they wear.

H: The helmet don't enter into it. The head is no longer attached to the body.  He's stone dead.

O: Nononono, no, no! 'E's resting!

H: All right then, if he's restin', I'll wake him up!

(shouting at decapitated head)

'Ello, Mister Templar, I've got some lovely fresh Lyrium for you if you show....

(Cullen nudges the helmet with his foot.)

C: There, he moved!

H: No, he didn't, that was you kicking the helmet!

C: I never!!

H: Yes, you did!

C: I never, never did anything...

H: (Hawke picks up the head and starts banging on the helmet) 'ELLO MATTHEW!!!!!

Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o'clock alarm call!

(Takes head out of the helmet and thumps it on the Cullen's breastplate. Throws it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.)

H: Now that's what I call a dead Templar.

C: No, no.....No, 'e's stunned!

H: STUNNED?!?

C: Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was wakin' up! Templars stun easily, major.

H: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That Templar is definitely deceased, and I killed him.  I am a spell casting, blood spilling, demon worshiping mage!

C: Well, he's...he's, ah...probably pining for the fjords.

H: PININ' for the FJORDS?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, Look.  I just blasted your next in command into tiny meaty bits in front of your face!

C: Oh now sir.  Templars explode into meaty bits all the time.  He is just homesick.  He will be fine!  You'll see.

(Hawke grabs a sword from a stall and nails the head of the Templar to a nearby post.)

H: So.. your saying that Templar Matthew will be fine, missing his body and with his head spiked to a post.

(pause)

C: Well, o'course he will sir.. and good thing he is nailed there too or he might be off to the Hanged Man or the Blooming Rose... VOOMMM.   Matthew does have a way with the ladies.

H: "VOOM"?!? Mate, the man wouldn't "voom" if I hit him with a Lighning Boltt! 'E's bleedin' demised!

C: No no! 'E's pining!

H: 'E's not pinin'! 'And he isnt interested in the ladies as is body is plastering half of the gallows!  E's passed on! This man is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet the Maker!

'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If I hadn't nailed 'im to the post 'e'd be pushing up daisies!

'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig!

'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' fade!!

THIS IS AN EX-TEMPLAR!!

(pause)

(pause)

C:  If you would like to leave a message for Matthew, I can give it to him when he gets back from the Rose.

(Hawke marches off in a mixture of anger, frustraition and disgust.)

[JohnstonMR]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I'm a big fan of the second game, but I had to restart it after playing through Act 1 because of this problem.

I am enjoying my second replay immensely because when there are witnesses about, I follow certain rules for my mage PC:

1. No flashy spells. Horror/Mind Blast/Hexes/Healing are fine, but no fireballs please.

2. Pretend the staff on your back is a quarterstaff. Melee attacks with it only. (The starting staff looks good as a blunt weapon to me. Anything more arcane looking stays under wraps until we're out of the city.)

3. No dressing like a witch. Apostate Robes/Mercenary Banded Leathers (or whatever they're called) only inside the city walls.

4. No mage companions inside the city unless you can be sure they won't get in a combat somewhere public.

This has made the city part of the game a lot more fun for me, and the times when I can pull out the Staff of Parlathan and rain fireballs and ice storms on the enemies now feel a lot more epic (and go a long way to explaining why everybody is so terrified of mages). That said I play this game on Casual only so it's not a fix for many of the posters here.

I may have to do that when I replay as a mage (after doing the other two classes; down the road a bit).  Thanks!

[Stefan Lieth]

Just imagine the whining around here if Bioware would actually make our apostate mages lives hell !
oh wait....
never mind.

[KLUME777]

In DAO its justified because your a Warden, so your company is excused.

[Aethena]

wow so many replies since I was last on lol.

I agree to a few posts that it wouldnt of been that hard to make it more realistic for the Mage story, especially since DA:2 revolves around mages and templars, so heavily and you already get unique choices as a Mage, They should of expanded on that much more.

[Arijharn]

You know, I wonder how many people would complain though that if they were playing a mage, that they'd be attacked (arrested?) on sight by Templar's and kick down the door to your home base, and if you did manage to escape Gamlen's home, then as a mage you wouldn't be able to take back your ancestral home on the account that you are a mage.

Honestly? I'm glad they took the route they did, because I think the complaining otherwise would be higher, and that it would be a hell of extra effort that while it may be awesome to see, would not necessarily justify the extra development time, especially if only 1/3rd of the playthrough's would be able to see it.

[Wulfram]

There are two fights which bug me because they really don't make sense. Otherwise, its not too bad.

[Cutlasskiwi]

For the first time I felt like I wanted to play as a mage in a game, so well done there BioWare. My first Hawke was a DW rogue but I did play as a mage on my second playthrough. With Origins I got bored after a few hours since mages were so overpowered it stopped being fun for me. At first when playing a mage, in DA2, I was a little disappointed that no one really reacted to the fact that I was a mage, other than my followers and a selected few others. I could fight right in front of templars and they wouldn’t give a damn. But now that I’ve had some time to think about it, I think it is kind of a good thing. Mages were overpowered in Origins and would there have been a more significant reaction to the player being a mage they would have been overpowered on a story level this time around over warriors and rogues. And yes, I realize that mages are always going to be a more controversial class than both warriors and rogues.

But a few extra lines of dialogue would not have gone amiss.

[The_11thDoctor]

Axe_Gaijin wrote...

*waves hand*

These aren't the Apostates you're looking for...

LOL! Oh my goodness! *facepalm*

What other excuse could they have for the game breaking situation of Kirkwall?

[nicethugbert]

In your first year, you are protected by your employer's bribes and you guys are wondering how you get away with being a mage? Your friend is the captain of the guard, with your big help, and you are wondering how you get away with being a mage? You clear the streets at night of all gangs and you are wondering how you get away with being a mage? You save the children of important persons and you wonder how you get away with being a mage? You kill dragons and you are wondering how you get away with being a mage? You ..........

You are the Patriarch/Matriarch of the Hawke family and you have a pimp/madam cane/fan. Satisfied?

[LordPaul256]

tmp7704 wrote...

You use magic literally 10 minutes after landing in Kirkwall, right in the middle of the Gallows and in front of squad ot templars, no less. That is being far more obvious than most of the hunted apostates.

Yeah, I really quickly noticed this on my mage playthrough.  

I'm... right in front of every templar, and a lot of guards, trying to get into the city, a city notorious of its il-treatment of mages... and I'm throwing around magic to kill teleporting enemies.

Huh..

[nicethugbert]

LordPaul256 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

You use magic literally 10 minutes after landing in Kirkwall, right in the middle of the Gallows and in front of squad ot templars, no less. That is being far more obvious than most of the hunted apostates.

Yeah, I really quickly noticed this on my mage playthrough.  

I'm... right in front of every templar, and a lot of guards, trying to get into the city, a city notorious of its il-treatment of mages... and I'm throwing around magic to kill teleporting enemies.

Huh..

Yeah, you save the templars from getting stomped by Ferelden Deserters.  Not all the templars were fanatics, or above being bribed.

[Wynne]

Yeah, it is a little ridiculous that people overlook this so determinedly. I loved playing a mage in DA2, loved the flavor, loved Carver... but nobody really calls you on it except for big NPCs like Meredith. Cullen says something about "disturbing rumors." That just doesn't quite cut the mustard. I would've liked for it to really matter more that you're a mage.

They managed to sorta make it work, but I would've liked for it to be a bit more drastic.

[Vicious]

A lot of people noticed I was a mage.

They just ignored it.

My bluff options always had Hawke [or Varric] claiming they were a circle mage from Ferelden.

Meredith knew I was an Apostate, but she let it slide despite my repeated mentioning of it.

So yeah, they really just ignored it.

whatever.

[bluewolv1970]

Yeah its funny when the mage you rescue with Anders in dissent is "horrified" by Andres going Justice on the templars but had no problem with Hawke jamming a staff through his chest and gushing blood...

[Princess Katrina]

Rafe34 wrote...

kyles3 wrote...

As long as the game gives you a choice about who your character is, there are going to be compromises in how extensively the world can react to who your character is. You wanted choice, you got choice. Enjoy.

And besides, being a mage in DA2 is still the most interesting class choice from a storyline perspective because of all the unique dialogue you get. It's a huge improvement over DA:O.

Bull****.

This type of attitude is why we started settling for these kinds of things in the first place.

See: Baldur's Gate, where there were negative consequences to doing certain things, (wasn't that made by the same company, lol?) DA:O at least had a rational explanation why they couldn't touch your mage, DA2 doesn't even try. How on earth anyone can say DA2 is better is just completely beyond me. I can see people liking ME1 better than ME2, and vice versa, I can't see anyone besides a pure hack n slash gamer who would prefer DA2 over DAO.

Actually, they do give a semi-rational explanation. When you first arrive in Kirkwall and you join either the Smugglers or the Mercenaries, they promise to essentially keep you "hidden" from the Templars for at least a year. Tied into this, a Mage Hawke who joins the Smugglers has a Circle Staff and Circle Robes by the end of that year. 

Also, Knight-Commander Meredith doesn't really start -cracking down- on mages until Act II. It's still a lot easier to get away with being an apostate in Act I than it would be later, by which point you've got wealth and influence to assist you.

And no, that's not all a perfect explanation, but it is a semi-rational explanation that works well enough, assuming you actually pay attention to what's going on in the game and don't just jump to conclusions because of the -necessary- sidesteps to make Mage at all usable for a player class.

And, having played a Mage throughout the entirety of Baldur's Gate II, I can say that the "trouble" you could get into in Athkatla was nothing compared to the trouble you'd get into if they -actually- made it "realistic" how people react to your being a mage in Dragon Age 2.

[Foryou]

funny i was starting to wonder the same thing today. I was thinking wait... Bethany and Anders and Merill carry their staffs with them in the open (didn't play as mage), so why is no one making a comment?

[nicethugbert]

Pimp cane ppl, it's the pimp cane. It's so sad you guys can't see that. But what's really sad about this game is that The Devs don't make you see that. So lazy.

[BlackIce541]

Aethena wrote...

So I noticed this in DA:O, and its even more apparent in DA:2.... Perhaps I'm missing something.

So if your mage your either A: An Apostate or B: Bound to the Circle never to leave...

During the beginning you run into Aveline and her husband and her husband knew right away that your sister (and you if you chose mage) are a mage... Yet not a single other NPC or Templar who are TRAINED FOR YEARS to sniff out apostates and recognize them, notice that your a mage...

Why is this? It kinda breaks the whole illusion of me hiding from templars when I can walk around with a staff on my back and mage clothing as though its an everyday thing.

There are even quests where you show yourself as a mage (despite the obvious staff on ur back and mage clothing), by making your hand light up... /facepalm

Then again I suppose I could just say its my Halloween costume :innocent: Thats what all the cool kids are doing these days right? dressing up as mages *thumbs up*

I doubt Avelines husband guessed that, you did save them, So he more than likely saw you casting spells...

[dantares83]

i think we all have to look past these minor problems. I mean Morrigan is obviously an Apostate (with her staff) but the NPCs do not care too... even if she is travelling with the Warden...

besides, I think the Templars usually will close one eye if they do not suspect u as Blood Mage.. They knew Anders was in the dark town but they questioned him. Both Cullen and Meredith recognize me as a mage (when they first saw me) and yet, they both make no attempts to capture me. I do feel it is a bit weird but maybe Hawke is too handsome/beautiful and they decided to give some slack...