30 réponses à ce sujet

[Gabey5]

Do you think she knew about Petrice's actions but stood back for deniability purposes? She had little screen time but i got the feeling she knew all the goings on in kirkwall but kept the neutral face. The fact that she didn't even flinch at Petrice's deathwas also pretty ominous, or do you think she was an obvlivious peacekeeper?

Modifié par Gabey5, 22 mars 2011 - 11:18 .

[Haasth]

I think she knew most of what was going on in Kirkwall, really.

[Maria13]

I think she was aware and is very much a person who believes in justice... She may have suggested to the qunari that they should deal with Petrice as they saw fit, given her crimes.

[AlexXIV]

The grand cleric's role was to be lofty and useless. She just spouts useless phrases which are supposed to be 'wisdom' but she doesn't really help the people of Kirkwall. Best thing is that she refused to leave Kirkwall alone because they are her 'flock'. Hawke and the city guards are the only ones who ever cared for the well being of Kirkwall.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 22 mars 2011 - 11:49 .

[DreGregoire]

On the Grand Cleric: I don't think she knew the specifics of it all but she definately suspected something was up. I took the opportunity to talk to her everytime I went in the chantry and found that she had some interesting things to say at different points in time. She sees her role differently than others see her role, I happen to like her very much, even if she wouldn't get out of dodge like she should have. hehe. She does not hesitate to set her underlings straight when need be, and her manner is such that she does not need force to solicite outright obediance.

[MICHELLE7]

AlexXIV wrote...

The grand cleric's role was to be lofty and useless. She just spouts useless phrases which are supposed to be 'wisdom' but she doesn't really help the people of Kirkwall. Best thing is that she refused to leave Kirkwall alone because they are her 'flock'. Hawke and the city guards are the only ones who ever cared for the well being of Kirkwall.

Have to agree that she was pretty useless...she sees all the injustices but refuses to do anything to put things right when it's obvious that both the Templars and the Circle are looking to her. She even mentions that Orsino is frustrated. So she definitely sees the problem. If she had made the templars ease up on the restrictions of the mages perhaps none of what happened would have happened.

[Icinix]

I think she's not really dead...

[Augustei]

Gabey5 wrote...

Do you think she knew about Petrice's actions but stood back for deniability purposes? She had little screen time but i got the feeling she knew all the goings on in kirkwall but kept the neutral face. The fact that she didn't even flinch at Petrice's deathwas also pretty ominous, or do you think she was an obvlivious peacekeeper?

Well she knew an Exalted March was being considered and was warned to leave the city and refused, I respec that.
She seemed to leave Patrice to her fate of being killed by that Qunari.. Or let Aveline take her

[Augustei]

AlexXIV wrote...

The grand cleric's role was to be lofty and useless. She just spouts useless phrases which are supposed to be 'wisdom' but she doesn't really help the people of Kirkwall. Best thing is that she refused to leave Kirkwall alone because they are her 'flock'. Hawke and the city guards are the only ones who ever cared for the well being of Kirkwall.

Well picking a side wasn't easy, Its either Zealots or Maleficarum... And they all were bloody Maleficarum save for 3 it seems

[pingupower]

I just wanted to punch her face very hard to waken her up every time she talked. So ignoring the situation. First with the Qunari and then with the mages/templar stuff. "I can make them stop but let's see how this ends"...
Hated Anders for blowing her up though.

[Shaleene]

IMO she was created to ****** off the champion and make your head explode with the WTH WOMAN moments. I don't feel bad for her.. At all..  She knew everything going on, hell you could TELL her everything going on and shes all.. The maker will work it out.. She is soooooooooo... Orginized religion in an old wrinkled package..  "The maker will step in its not my position"  UGH UGH UGH!

Modifié par Shaleene, 22 mars 2011 - 01:04 .

[Wulfram]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Have to agree that she was pretty useless...she sees all the injustices but refuses to do anything to put things right when it's obvious that both the Templars and the Circle are looking to her. She even mentions that Orsino is frustrated. So she definitely sees the problem. If she had made the templars ease up on the restrictions of the mages perhaps none of what happened would have happened.

IIRC she mentions that Meredith no longer listens to her advice.  Meredith is out of her control, and forcing a confrontation could easily spark the war she's trying to avoid.

[AlexXIV]

Wulfram wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Have to agree that she was pretty useless...she sees all the injustices but refuses to do anything to put things right when it's obvious that both the Templars and the Circle are looking to her. She even mentions that Orsino is frustrated. So she definitely sees the problem. If she had made the templars ease up on the restrictions of the mages perhaps none of what happened would have happened.

IIRC she mentions that Meredith no longer listens to her advice.  Meredith is out of her control, and forcing a confrontation could easily spark the war she's trying to avoid.

Meredith is 'merely' the knight commander of the templars in Kirkwall. There must be someone in the chantry hierarchy to stop her. I mean even Leliana was there in Kirkwall as supposed left hand of the Divine herself. I find the whole behaviour of the grand cleric rather suspicious. She keeps talking about eternity, but obviously the people of Kirkwall don't have an eternity to wait for the Maker to fix things. I feel the grand cleric is just not of this world anymore, she lost focus on what is important.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 22 mars 2011 - 01:19 .

[Wulfram]

AlexXIV wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

IIRC she mentions that Meredith no longer listens to her advice.  Meredith is out of her control, and forcing a confrontation could easily spark the war she's trying to avoid.

Meredith is 'merely' the knight commander of the templars in Kirkwall. There must be someone in the chantry hierarchy to stop her. I mean even Leliana was there in Kirkwall as supposed left hand of the Divine herself. I find the whole behaviour of the grand cleric rather suspicious. She keeps talking about eternity, but obviously the people of Kirkwall don't have an eternity to wait for the Maker to fix things. I feel the grand cleric is just not of this world anymore, she lost focus on what is important.

By the time Cassandra and Varric are talking the Templars have, as an order, broken off from Chantry control and are pursuing their campaign against the mages independently. 
What that shows is that the Templars can only be pushed so far.  If the Grand Cleric decided, without clear evidence of misconduct, to impede the Knight Commander in what she considered necessary steps to carry out her duty to protect Kirkwall from Apostates and Maleficarum, then I would expect the Knight Commander to defy her and recieve the full backing of the Templars in doing so.
And once the Chantry's control of the Templars is exposed as the fiction it is, the world burns.  The mages will see no option but to rebel, because their hope that the Knight Commander can be restrained will be gone

Modifié par Wulfram, 22 mars 2011 - 02:19 .

[AlexXIV]

Wulfram wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

IIRC she mentions that Meredith no longer listens to her advice.  Meredith is out of her control, and forcing a confrontation could easily spark the war she's trying to avoid.

Meredith is 'merely' the knight commander of the templars in Kirkwall. There must be someone in the chantry hierarchy to stop her. I mean even Leliana was there in Kirkwall as supposed left hand of the Divine herself. I find the whole behaviour of the grand cleric rather suspicious. She keeps talking about eternity, but obviously the people of Kirkwall don't have an eternity to wait for the Maker to fix things. I feel the grand cleric is just not of this world anymore, she lost focus on what is important.

By the time Cassandra and Varric are talking the Templars have, as an order, broken off from Chantry control and are pursuing their campaign against the mages independently. 
What that shows is that the Templars can only be pushed so far.  If the Grand Cleric decided, without clear evidence of misconduct, to impede the Knight Commander in what she considered necessary steps to carry out her duty to protect Kirkwall from Apostates and Maleficarum, then I would expect the Knight Commander to defy her and recieve the full backing of the Templars in doing so.
And once the Chantry's control of the Templars is exposed as the fiction it is, the world burns.  The mages will see no option but to rebel, because their hope that the Knight Commander can be restrained will be gone

Well if it is a lie, then it is just another chantry lie. One of many. And I'd say good riddance.

[Taleroth]

The problem with it being a lie is that the chantry controls the lyrium to make it true. Without Elthina's blessing, Meredith would have to resort to eating her sword.

Modifié par Taleroth, 22 mars 2011 - 02:24 .

[Wulfram]

Taleroth wrote...

The problem with it being a lie is that the chantry controls the lyrium to make it true. Without Elthina's blessing, Meredith would have to resort to eating her sword.

Well, apparently they've found a way around it by the time of the framing story.

[Shaleene]

Templars just have to talk to carta dwarves, or go to orzammar. Lyrium is not as hard to get as people think.

[azarhal]

AlexXIV wrote...

Meredith is 'merely' the knight commander of the templars in Kirkwall. There must be someone in the chantry hierarchy to stop her. I mean even Leliana was there in Kirkwall as supposed left hand of the Divine herself. I find the whole behaviour of the grand cleric rather suspicious. She keeps talking about eternity, but obviously the people of Kirkwall don't have an eternity to wait for the Maker to fix things. I feel the grand cleric is just not of this world anymore, she lost focus on what is important.

Say hello to the Seekers of Truth, it's their job to keep the Templars in check, hence the ending of DA2.

Also, the Templar didn't start as a Chantry faction, they were "absorbed" into the Chantry when the the Circles were created. Now they left the Chantry again, which mean that only the Seekers are left as the Chantry's (shadow) army.

As for the Grand Cleric, I have the feeling that she might have wanted the whole thing to blow up, but she didn't want to be seen as the one who took side.

[Naitaka]

Lyrium smugglers been around for ages, not to mention once the Templar openly revolt, I wouldn't be surprised that they can secure their own means of Lyrium supply when they ARE the chantry's army/eforcers. Power only reside in where you believe it to be, the Templar simply been brainwashed into thinking they need the Chantry when they're the one holding the swords.

[Camenae]

I liked Elthina. She was a nice lady, and she didn't deserve to die, but I was very frustrated with her for not doing more, which I think was intentional by the writers, but the reasons they gave for her not doing more weren't very good.

Elthina: "Meredith is out of my control now." How so? Unless you're afraid that she'll kill you for telling her off, why shouldn't you at least say something to her? And you say you're not afraid of what might happen to you. You are her boss, because the Templars are a branch of the Chantry. For us, a boss who knows exactly what her underlings are doing but does nothing, has ratified the actions and is responsible by the respondeat superior doctrine. Plus, Leliana "the Left Hand of the Divine" is right there!!!! If this isn't an opportunity to go up the chain of command about a subordinate who is clearly unfit for service, I don't know what is.

Elthina: "I must remain neutral.". No you must not. It's your JOB to step in. This isn't two foreign countries we're talking about. The Templar and the Circle are both subsidiaries of the Chantry! And who's the head of the Kirkwall Chantry? You. If the Navy and the Air Force hated each other and wanted to kill each other, would the President say, no I must just sit and see how this plays out?

Even for the pure sake of charity, she should step in. Offer the mages sanctuary in the Chantry. Send the mages away to somewhere not as crazy. Send the brothers and sisters to the Gallows to watch the Templars. Petition the Divine for some Seekers...Maybe if she actually went and did something other than sitting on her butt in the Chantry, she wouldn't have gotten blown up and I would have believed more that she actually cared about "her flock."

[Maria Caliban]

DreGregoire wrote...

I took the opportunity to talk to her everytime I went in the chantry and found that she had some interesting things to say at different points in time.

When does she have different things to say?

[Beerfish]

Maria13 wrote...

I think she was aware and is very much a person who believes in justice... She may have suggested to the qunari that they should deal with Petrice as they saw fit, given her crimes.

Another hate point for the Qunari, they are suddenly given total freedom to carry out a death sentence on a member of the chantry at their whim.  The fact I was not allowed to kill their assassin really ticked me off.

[NinjaRogue]

Hehe my Hawke last two Hawkes tried to follow her example. I don't take sides until the very end. "Andraste didn't go willing to the flame" She knew the fire was about to start and knew anything she did would start it. She is even sympathetic towards the Mages. "I hope you have found solice here" to Anders. And then he goes and kills her. Which starts the fires of war. Elthina was not a woman of conflict but a woman of peace. *to Petrice* "And you demean his name!" (Best line in the game ever!!!!! *Christian who can't stand radical Christians saying this*

[LadyJaneGrey]

Elthina was a nice, fair-minded lady...who should have retired ten years ago for the good of Kirkwall.  A firm, decisive person was needed to keep Meredith in check while still addressing the blood mage threat.  Rather than acknowledging that she wasn't the right person for the job and stepping aside...she let the situation escalate for years.  In the end, she helped destroy those she most wished to protect.