1677 réponses à ce sujet

[Nashiktal]

Actually... Tali being Bi would be incredibly cute to me.

[UsagiVindaloo]

I wish we could at least reach a common ground where we agreed that:

1) New bisexual or gay love interests would be awesome (that seems to be generally accepted at least) and
2) There are at least one or two existing LIs who could arguably be attracted to a same sex Shepard (and not reveal it) without it changing much of their character. My money would be on Tali (who canonically blushes and gets flustered over Fem!Shepard, could easily be hiding a crush) and Garrus (who has already had the, "Well, if it's SHEPARD, that's different," rationale built into his character).

Keep the rest straight as arrows if you will, but I like to think that the above would be a compromise that would keep almost everyone happy (well, except Shepards pining over the "wrong" VS or the ME2 LIs, I guess )

[Naltair]

trickfred wrote...

Sure, I'd be emotional, but 'losing you was like losing a limb' for example, at least to me, implied an intimacy level that I would consider reserved for family or romantic interests. Maybe I should have phrased that a little better, but hopefully you understand what I meant now.

Regardless, I still think there would really be no issue with making that particular character open for same sex romancing. He won't even be in a large portion of people's ME3 games anyways, and those with DudeSheps that do have him, had to choose for him to be there.

I could see myself saying something similar about my best friend of the last 20 years or so.

[Ship.wreck_]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

I made this thread because I was a little worried after DA2 (my opinion only)

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a homophobe. This is just how I feel. This is not homophobic. Anybody who calls me one is just as bad as the ones who ARE anti gay.

That doesn't make any sense.

Why? For the following reasons:

1. It cheapens the romances.

How so?

4. If it happened, there would be arguments over whether Manshep or Femshep is better with x character.

And if it didn't happen there would be arguments over wether Manshep or Femshep would have been better with x character. It doesn't make any difference and the future arguments don't matter anyway. People have argued every ridiculous thing they could possibly argue about with all the ME's (as perfectly demonstrated by this post - not that it's ridiculous) and the same will be true for ME3. It's no reason to do or not to do anything.

6. It's a bit late to make them bi in ME3. ME1 was released in 2007 or something. If they were going to be bi, it should have been then.

That's IF they're the same LI's from 1 and/or 2. If they're not the same LI's they can be straight bi gay or whatever the writers want them to be. OF COURSE pre-existing LI's (if they're even around for ME3 - lets hope) that have already been established as being straight shouldn't be magically changed to bi or gay. And that's for no reason other than the fact that they've already been established as being straight. If that's your point thats all you had to say. Only way a pre-existing straight character can be made bi is if there's a reasonable explanation for it.

7. Wouldn't it be awkward if the LIs were just suddenly bi? It would seem like it was done just to appease people (which is LAME)

Yeah, but since when is there any gaurante we're ever even going to see the old LI's again? Let alone that they'll be LI's in the next game.

EDIT:
8. If at least ONE person that could have been bi, it should have been Jack (my opinion)

Just because Jack was a weirdo with a shaved head doesn't mean she should be bi. And just because Miranda is "normal" doesn't mean she shouldn't be.

So do you agree with me? Do you disagree?

Agree that straight characters shouldn't be magiced bi all of a sudden. But not that it's impossible for any of them to become bi. And not the jack thing. And certainly don't agree that any new LI's should be not bi. Post was a little vague.

Most importantly though: I'm assuming that by bi you mean a character will be an LI wether shep is male or female. But that doesn't make them bi! I can see where you'd be confused: You're looking at ME from a greater perspective than any of the ME characters can ever see it. You can see the ME universe as it would be if Shep was male AND as it would be if Shep was female. But the characters can only see either OR based on your decision of Shep's gender.

To restate it simply, in order for an LI to be bi the LI would have to be attracted to both genders AT THE SAME TIME. But liking shep in the universe where shep is male... and liking shep in the universe where shep is female isn't liking both genders at the same time, it's only likeing one gender per universe. Totally separate stories you can't combine them unless you make a shep a hermaphrodite.

In equation form:
Male Shep + female LI = straight LI
Female Shep + the exact same female LI = gay LI

The only way to get an actually bi LI:
Male Shep + female LI + female LI also likes other females = bi LI
Female Shep + exact same female LI + female LI also likes males = bi LI

*The LI has to like both genders within the SAME plotline to be bi. The only reason we know Kelly really is bi is that she states explicitly that gender and species are not factors in who she is atracted to.

[Nashiktal]

Naltair wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

OK, I'll concede that if the attraction is to you that that can change the relationship somewhat (even though it shouldn't mess with your friendship ). I went for that because I was thinking more in terms of the LIs being attracted to "you"/Shepard.

But what if your buddy happened to mention that they were attracted to a specific guy that wasn't you? (Sorry, am guessing you are male, please correct if wrong) Would that change your opinion of him? Would you think it "changed" him? And if it doesn't... why would it 'change" any of Bioware's characters if the situation is pretty much the same (straight, but develop a massive crush on same-sex-Shepard)?

I hate to say it but yeah it would change my opinion of him, not really a negative one but just different.  I think for many people it would change how you see someone.

Just like if your mother or father or sister came out and say they were gay, bisexual, transexual... it changes something about that person.  It changes your conception of them. it may not be a bad thing but it will in most cases change your idea of them.

When the attraction isn't toward you, it fall to the individual to determine how much it changes the "relationship" between the two. Its not bad or good, it's just a sum of all the social factors that have shaped your views and opinions up to this point.

[Lee337]

I agree with the OP, it's unrealistic. Not homophobic either but it does make me very uncomfortable getting hit on by guys.
I do have a bisexual male friend, I just don't like being the attention of it. I don't treat him any differently as long as he understands I'm not interested.
I don't think they should change any characters for ME3 because it'll just seem cheap like it's been said before. In future games maybe, but not just for the sake of it. I think it'd be more realistic as well if there were characters that are homosexual rather than them always being bisexual in the games.

---Maybe an option to turn on or off homosexual conversations?

Modifié par Lee337, 22 mars 2011 - 07:26 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

If my friend was bisexual, and he was attracted to me, yes, I would treat him differently, because now the relationship is different. (if that's what you are asking).

I'm not a homophobe, because I would feel the same way if it was a girl I didn't like that way and I was friends with.

OK, I'll concede that if the attraction is to you that that can change the relationship somewhat (even though it shouldn't mess with your friendship ). I went for that because I was thinking more in terms of the LIs being attracted to "you"/Shepard.

But what if your buddy happened to mention that they were attracted to a specific guy that wasn't you? (Sorry, am guessing you are male, please correct if wrong) Would that change your opinion of him? Would you think it "changed" him? And if it doesn't... why would it 'change" any of Bioware's characters if the situation is pretty much the same (straight, but develop a massive crush on same-sex-Shepard)?

1) This isn't to say that we couldn't be friends. I twould be different bevause I would be worried about hurting him because I don't feel that way.

2) I am a male, you guessed right. I think it would affect things, yes, because I would see him in a different light. 

3) It would change the realtionship (for me at least). Here's how I see it:

Shepard and Garrus are bros (for my Shepard)

Then one day...

Garrus: Shepard, I've been assumedly straight all this time, but i love you.

Shepard:

It would just feel awkward and ruin my relationship.

[Naltair]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

I wish we could at least reach a common ground where we agreed that:

1) New bisexual or gay love interests would be awesome (that seems to be generally accepted at least) and
2) There are at least one or two existing LIs who could arguably be attracted to a same sex Shepard (and not reveal it) without it changing much of their character. My money would be on Tali (who canonically blushes and gets flustered over Fem!Shepard, could easily be hiding a crush) and Garrus (who has already had the, "Well, if it's SHEPARD, that's different," rationale built into his character).

Keep the rest straight as arrows if you will, but I like to think that the above would be a compromise that would keep almost everyone happy (well, except Shepards pining over the "wrong" VS or the ME2 LIs, I guess )

The problem is that you change one you might as well change them all, you will never please everyone.  Just my two cents on that stance.

Be all high and mighty if you want, but changing someone's percieved sexual orientation, alien or not, is a huge deal for most people.

Edit: Huge in the meaning that it does change how many people will look at the character.  Think of how many people probably only know of Liara as the blue lesbian alien.

Modifié par Naltair, 22 mars 2011 - 07:27 .

[Naltair]

Nashiktal wrote...

When the attraction isn't toward you, it fall to the individual to determine how much it changes the "relationship" between the two. Its not bad or good, it's just a sum of all the social factors that have shaped your views and opinions up to this point.

True it would just be somewhat different from what you expected.

Like a friend suddenly shaving their head and getting deep into metal, after being pretty hardcore into indie music and emo hair cuts.

It's a change.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

It still doesn't make it homophobic.

We as players can avoid the romances we don't like. Sexual orientation can be part of that decision. Great. That does not mean that you have to ban non-hetero relations from the game, just because you have another sexual orientation. Remember that I am responding to the title and intention of this thread. If there is is no rational behind it then homophobia remains. I'll drop the subject, because I am not on a mission to change your view. I have stated mine and that was my only goal.

[jeweledleah]

trickfred wrote...

Naltair wrote...

trickfred wrote...
And for those that say it would be against his character, well, have you seen how emotionally Kaidan reacts to a DudeShep on Horizon in ME2? I totally believe he could be bisexual, based on that alone.

Terrible reasoning, men can't be emotional for other men?

If I thought one of my best friends died and I saw them again I would be super emotional too, that does not mean I have a torch for him or want to secretly sleep with him.

Sure, I'd be emotional, but 'losing you was like losing a limb' for example, at least to me, implied an intimacy level that I would consider reserved for family or romantic interests. Maybe I should have phrased that a little better, but hopefully you understand what I meant now.

Regardless, I still think there would really be no issue with making that particular character open for same sex romancing. He won't even be in a large portion of people's ME3 games anyways, and those with DudeSheps that do have him, had to choose for him to be there.

I wish people would stopbringing that phrase up.  he says the same thing to femshep if you chose the right dialogue path.  he has 99% identical dialogue with romanced femshep vs non romanced femshep with the exception of ONE phrase and a hug.  he says says more or less the same things as Ashley with some very minor changes. he acts the same way as Ashley, hell he even wears the same armor as Ashely at the start, uses the same gun on Horizon, same animations, and not using tech or biotic skills. it was shoddy writing.  it was not a hint at anything, it was shoddy I was going to say, lazy, but honestly - it was economical writing, so that writers could focus on other content.  that said - concidering the precedent - writers might just continue in the vein of Kashley Wilenko isntead of having 2 distinct characters and use that limb phrase as an excuse.  woulnd't make it good writing though.

[UsagiVindaloo]

Naltair wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

OK, I'll concede that if the attraction is to you that that can change the relationship somewhat (even though it shouldn't mess with your friendship ). I went for that because I was thinking more in terms of the LIs being attracted to "you"/Shepard.

But what if your buddy happened to mention that they were attracted to a specific guy that wasn't you? (Sorry, am guessing you are male, please correct if wrong) Would that change your opinion of him? Would you think it "changed" him? And if it doesn't... why would it 'change" any of Bioware's characters if the situation is pretty much the same (straight, but develop a massive crush on same-sex-Shepard)?

I hate to say it but yeah it would change my opinion of him, not really a negative one but just different.  I think for many people it would change how you see someone.

Just like if your mother or father or sister came out and say they were gay, bisexual, transexual... it changes something about that person.  It changes your conception of them. it may not be a bad thing but it will in most cases change your idea of them.

See, and this is where I think the fundamental problem between the "IT CHANGES THE CHARACTERS" camp and the "WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM" camp. If my best female friend mentioned that she happened to like this one girl, my response? "That's cool. So what are we gonna do about lunch?" If I was feeling particularly playful, I'd respond, "Oh no, not GIRL X! That's sick that you're attracted to her! Now GIRL Y, that's where it's at. B)"

I think the only way my perception would change is if the confession was coming from someone who was already in a relationship, and only in the sense that, "Dude, what about your boy/girlfriend/wife/husband?" And even then, if it's just, "I like women and my girlfriend is amazing, but I would totally go gay for Johnny Depp," I'd be like, "That's nice. So would I, and I'm a girl." :innocent:

So we have two fundamentally opposing viewpoints, the one that says sexuality revelations change a person (or, rather, change your perception of them) and the one that says it's no great revelation at all, it doesn't change a thing. Any chance we can meet somewhere in the middle?

[Ramirez Wolfen]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

I wish we could at least reach a common ground where we agreed that:

1) New bisexual or gay love interests would be awesome (that seems to be generally accepted at least) and
2) There are at least one or two existing LIs who could arguably be attracted to a same sex Shepard (and not reveal it) without it changing much of their character. My money would be on Tali (who canonically blushes and gets flustered over Fem!Shepard, could easily be hiding a crush) and Garrus (who has already had the, "Well, if it's SHEPARD, that's different," rationale built into his character).

Keep the rest straight as arrows if you will, but I like to think that the above would be a compromise that would keep almost everyone happy (well, except Shepards pining over the "wrong" VS or the ME2 LIs, I guess )

1) I stated multiple times in this thread that I am fine with new characters that are bi or gay.
2) I can't agree with you on Tali or Garrus.

[Naltair]

It's kind of like having an Ashley that in one playthru is totally accepting of aliens and then the other being very cautious and suspicious of aliens. Meaning she is like that from the get-go.

I mean I know I have seen several times where Ashley is called racist by many posters. if they did that it would confuse her character, I am not sure why people can't see this.

[Naltair]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

So we have two fundamentally opposing viewpoints, the one that says sexuality revelations change a person (or, rather, change your perception of them) and the one that says it's no great revelation at all, it doesn't change a thing. Any chance we can meet somewhere in the middle?

Change is a variable thing though, but yes it would change my opinion about them.  it would change how we interact in some ways.  Any change that changes the status quo will do this though.

Even your acceptance admits that you would then start talking to her about people she is now interested in as opposed to what she would have been interested in before.  It's a change some changes are smoother than others.  Not everyy change is OMG WTF earth shattering.

[UsagiVindaloo]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

If my friend was bisexual, and he was attracted to me, yes, I would treat him differently, because now the relationship is different. (if that's what you are asking).

I'm not a homophobe, because I would feel the same way if it was a girl I didn't like that way and I was friends with.

OK, I'll concede that if the attraction is to you that that can change the relationship somewhat (even though it shouldn't mess with your friendship ). I went for that because I was thinking more in terms of the LIs being attracted to "you"/Shepard.

But what if your buddy happened to mention that they were attracted to a specific guy that wasn't you? (Sorry, am guessing you are male, please correct if wrong) Would that change your opinion of him? Would you think it "changed" him? And if it doesn't... why would it 'change" any of Bioware's characters if the situation is pretty much the same (straight, but develop a massive crush on same-sex-Shepard)?

1) This isn't to say that we couldn't be friends. I twould be different bevause I would be worried about hurting him because I don't feel that way.

2) I am a male, you guessed right. I think it would affect things, yes, because I would see him in a different light. 

3) It would change the realtionship (for me at least). Here's how I see it:

Shepard and Garrus are bros (for my Shepard)

Then one day...

Garrus: Shepard, I've been assumedly straight all this time, but i love you.

Shepard:

It would just feel awkward and ruin my relationship.

But to Bioware's credit, few of the relationships have panned out like this. Rather, it's gone:

Garrus: I had reach, she had flexibility, blah blah blah.
Shepard: *has choice to I HAVE TO GO or follow up on this and test HIS flexibility, ifyaknowhwatImean*

I could see a scenario where Garrus, say, said something that was very BROMANCE to Male Shepard. Like, "There's no one in the galaxy I respect more than you, Shepard." or something very caring (but not sexual). Male Shepard could then have the option to say, "Is it just respect?" at which Garrus admits that no, he does have stronger feelings than that. But if you never ask him about it, you're never the wiser, and as far as you/Shepard is concerned, it's nothing more than bromance.

Utterly unrelated to the thread, I think I want to hug the person who came up with the term bromance. It's so cute and funny and useful for describing those sorts of relationships.

[James2912]

Kaidan definitely could be bisexual...

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

I made this thread because I was a little worried after DA2 (my opinion only)

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a homophobe. This is just how I feel. This is not homophobic. Anybody who calls me one is just as bad as the ones who ARE anti gay.

That doesn't make any sense.

Why? For the following reasons:

1. It cheapens the romances.

How so?

4. If it happened, there would be arguments over whether Manshep or Femshep is better with x character.

And if it didn't happen there would be arguments over wether Manshep or Femshep would have been better with x character. It doesn't make any difference and the future arguments don't matter anyway. People have argued every ridiculous thing they could possibly argue about with all the ME's (as perfectly demonstrated by this post - not that it's ridiculous) and the same will be true for ME3. It's no reason to do or not to do anything.

6. It's a bit late to make them bi in ME3. ME1 was released in 2007 or something. If they were going to be bi, it should have been then.

That's IF they're the same LI's from 1 and/or 2. If they're not the same LI's they can be straight bi gay or whatever the writers want them to be. OF COURSE pre-existing LI's (if they're even around for ME3 - lets hope) that have already been established as being straight shouldn't be magically changed to bi or gay. And that's for no reason other than the fact that they've already been established as being straight. If that's your point thats all you had to say. Only way a pre-existing straight character can be made bi is if there's a reasonable explanation for it.

7. Wouldn't it be awkward if the LIs were just suddenly bi? It would seem like it was done just to appease people (which is LAME)

Yeah, but since when is there any gaurante we're ever even going to see the old LI's again? Let alone that they'll be LI's in the next game.

EDIT:
8. If at least ONE person that could have been bi, it should have been Jack (my opinion)

Just because Jack was a weirdo with a shaved head doesn't mean she should be bi. And just because Miranda is "normal" doesn't mean she shouldn't be.

So do you agree with me? Do you disagree?

Agree that straight characters shouldn't be magiced bi all of a sudden. But not that it's impossible for any of them to become bi. And not the jack thing. And certainly don't agree that any new LI's should be not bi. Post was a little vague. Most importantly though: I'm assuming that by bi you mean a character will be an LI wether shep is male or female. But that doesn't make them bi! I can see where you'd be confused: You're looking at ME from a greater perspective than any of the ME characters can ever see it. You can see the ME universe as it would be if Shep was male AND as it would be if Shep was female. But the characters can only see either OR based on your decision of Shep's gender. To restate it simply, in order for an LI to be bi the LI would have to be attracted to both genders AT THE SAME TIME. But liking shep in the universe where shep is male... and liking shep in the universe where shep is female isn't liking both genders at the same time, it's only likeing one gender per universe. Totally separate stories you can't combine them unless you make a shep a hermaphrodite.
*The LI has to like both genders within the SAME plotline to be bi. The only reason we know Kelly really is bi is that she states explicitly that gender and species are not factors in who she is atracted to.

1) It makes sense that the gay community wants support, but it's stupid to call anyone who doesn't agree with them on any particualr matter a homophobe (this goes with any group)
2) Read the thread.
3) I don't see this for Tali.
4) It's confirmed that they will be in ME3.
5) Same as 4.
6) That's why I said my opinion.

[coolair74]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Naltair wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

OK, I'll concede that if the attraction is to you that that can change the relationship somewhat (even though it shouldn't mess with your friendship ). I went for that because I was thinking more in terms of the LIs being attracted to "you"/Shepard.

But what if your buddy happened to mention that they were attracted to a specific guy that wasn't you? (Sorry, am guessing you are male, please correct if wrong) Would that change your opinion of him? Would you think it "changed" him? And if it doesn't... why would it 'change" any of Bioware's characters if the situation is pretty much the same (straight, but develop a massive crush on same-sex-Shepard)?

I hate to say it but yeah it would change my opinion of him, not really a negative one but just different.  I think for many people it would change how you see someone.

Just like if your mother or father or sister came out and say they were gay, bisexual, transexual... it changes something about that person.  It changes your conception of them. it may not be a bad thing but it will in most cases change your idea of them.

See, and this is where I think the fundamental problem between the "IT CHANGES THE CHARACTERS" camp and the "WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM" camp. If my best female friend mentioned that she happened to like this one girl, my response? "That's cool. So what are we gonna do about lunch?" If I was feeling particularly playful, I'd respond, "Oh no, not GIRL X! That's sick that you're attracted to her! Now GIRL Y, that's where it's at. B)"

I think the only way my perception would change is if the confession was coming from someone who was already in a relationship, and only in the sense that, "Dude, what about your boy/girlfriend/wife/husband?" And even then, if it's just, "I like women and my girlfriend is amazing, but I would totally go gay for Johnny Depp," I'd be like, "That's nice. So would I, and I'm a girl." :innocent:

So we have two fundamentally opposing viewpoints, the one that says sexuality revelations change a person (or, rather, change your perception of them) and the one that says it's no great revelation at all, it doesn't change a thing. Any chance we can meet somewhere in the middle?

For most of us straits , it is gonna change our perception. As in Real life, if some dude professes his love for me , its just gonna make my uncomfortable and ill want not to hang out with that guy anymore. That maybe cold but at least for me, its how I would deal with it. When my cousin came out, it rocked the family up, now he is loved here but everyone looks at him differently and arnt confortable when he brings his BF over for family functions.

It may be accepted a bit more where you live but here in the bible belt, its awkward.

[UsagiVindaloo]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

I wish we could at least reach a common ground where we agreed that:

1) New bisexual or gay love interests would be awesome (that seems to be generally accepted at least) and
2) There are at least one or two existing LIs who could arguably be attracted to a same sex Shepard (and not reveal it) without it changing much of their character. My money would be on Tali (who canonically blushes and gets flustered over Fem!Shepard, could easily be hiding a crush) and Garrus (who has already had the, "Well, if it's SHEPARD, that's different," rationale built into his character).

Keep the rest straight as arrows if you will, but I like to think that the above would be a compromise that would keep almost everyone happy (well, except Shepards pining over the "wrong" VS or the ME2 LIs, I guess )

1) I stated multiple times in this thread that I am fine with new characters that are bi or gay.
2) I can't agree with you on Tali or Garrus.

Then I think we just have to agree to disagree. I have stated numerous times that I feel that there has already been ample evidence (or at least lack of counter-evidence) to suggest that Tali has a crush on FemShep and that Garrus is Shepard-sexual. If these characters were "suddenly" bisexual, it would not feel like a change. It would feel like something that was always there, always part of the characters, and would not be at all surprising. In fact, I think my actual response would be, "Duh, obviously."

[Ramirez Wolfen]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

I wish we could at least reach a common ground where we agreed that:

1) New bisexual or gay love interests would be awesome (that seems to be generally accepted at least) and
2) There are at least one or two existing LIs who could arguably be attracted to a same sex Shepard (and not reveal it) without it changing much of their character. My money would be on Tali (who canonically blushes and gets flustered over Fem!Shepard, could easily be hiding a crush) and Garrus (who has already had the, "Well, if it's SHEPARD, that's different," rationale built into his character).

Keep the rest straight as arrows if you will, but I like to think that the above would be a compromise that would keep almost everyone happy (well, except Shepards pining over the "wrong" VS or the ME2 LIs, I guess )

1) I stated multiple times in this thread that I am fine with new characters that are bi or gay.
2) I can't agree with you on Tali or Garrus.

Then I think we just have to agree to disagree. I have stated numerous times that I feel that there has already been ample evidence (or at least lack of counter-evidence) to suggest that Tali has a crush on FemShep and that Garrus is Shepard-sexual. If these characters were "suddenly" bisexual, it would not feel like a change. It would feel like something that was always there, always part of the characters, and would not be at all surprising. In fact, I think my actual response would be, "Duh, obviously."

Very Well.

[Lee337]

I don't think characters should be changed just to suit the person playing.They shouldn't make Garrus bisexual to suit the homsosexual croud, just as they shouldn't make Ashley love aliens to suit the people who call her rasist, I think its better to have set characters rather than characters who just change thier opinons to whatever you want them to be, life isn't like that. Homosexuality is still a minority, so while I'm no opposed to characters being homosexual or bisexual, not every character should be.

[UsagiVindaloo]

Naltair wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

So we have two fundamentally opposing viewpoints, the one that says sexuality revelations change a person (or, rather, change your perception of them) and the one that says it's no great revelation at all, it doesn't change a thing. Any chance we can meet somewhere in the middle?

Change is a variable thing though, but yes it would change my opinion about them.  it would change how we interact in some ways.  Any change that changes the status quo will do this though.

Even your acceptance admits that you would then start talking to her about people she is now interested in as opposed to what she would have been interested in before.  It's a change some changes are smoother than others.  Not everyy change is OMG WTF earth shattering.

Actually, I would only make that comment if SHE thought it was a big deal about her liking a girl and that she thought it would make a difference to me; more likely than not I'd be like, "Does this at any way alter your ability to play your max level rogue in WoW or your interest in karaoke? No? Then no worries." or not even comment on it. And I *certainly* would never start doing things like pointing out hot girls or anything, unless I was doing that before her confession.

Perhaps it is a change, but for some the change is so infintisemal that it's on par with "I had eggs for breakfast instead of waffles." Might get at most a slight eyebrow raise and a, "Huh, odd, thought you liked waffles.*" before shrugging and forgetting about it.

* My response to all MAJOR OMG REVELATIONS will now henceforth be, "Huh, I thought you liked waffles."

[coolair74]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

I wish we could at least reach a common ground where we agreed that:

1) New bisexual or gay love interests would be awesome (that seems to be generally accepted at least) and
2) There are at least one or two existing LIs who could arguably be attracted to a same sex Shepard (and not reveal it) without it changing much of their character. My money would be on Tali (who canonically blushes and gets flustered over Fem!Shepard, could easily be hiding a crush) and Garrus (who has already had the, "Well, if it's SHEPARD, that's different," rationale built into his character).

Keep the rest straight as arrows if you will, but I like to think that the above would be a compromise that would keep almost everyone happy (well, except Shepards pining over the "wrong" VS or the ME2 LIs, I guess )

1) I stated multiple times in this thread that I am fine with new characters that are bi or gay.
2) I can't agree with you on Tali or Garrus.

Then I think we just have to agree to disagree. I have stated numerous times that I feel that there has already been ample evidence (or at least lack of counter-evidence) to suggest that Tali has a crush on FemShep and that Garrus is Shepard-sexual. If these characters were "suddenly" bisexual, it would not feel like a change. It would feel like something that was always there, always part of the characters, and would not be at all surprising. In fact, I think my actual response would be, "Duh, obviously."

You can feel however you want but there is no evidence point to Garrus being anything but strait, same with Tali, there is a difference in respect and wanting to bump uglies.\\

Since Garrus has had girlfriends you must conclude that he at least Strait as a small % of the population are Bi.
Tali could be Bi, but since she only comes onto Male Shepard, we must conclude she is strait as stated above since we have a lack of any evidence pointing to her being bi.

Occam's razor.

Modifié par coolair74, 22 mars 2011 - 07:47 .

[UsagiVindaloo]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

I wish we could at least reach a common ground where we agreed that:

1) New bisexual or gay love interests would be awesome (that seems to be generally accepted at least) and
2) There are at least one or two existing LIs who could arguably be attracted to a same sex Shepard (and not reveal it) without it changing much of their character. My money would be on Tali (who canonically blushes and gets flustered over Fem!Shepard, could easily be hiding a crush) and Garrus (who has already had the, "Well, if it's SHEPARD, that's different," rationale built into his character).

Keep the rest straight as arrows if you will, but I like to think that the above would be a compromise that would keep almost everyone happy (well, except Shepards pining over the "wrong" VS or the ME2 LIs, I guess )

1) I stated multiple times in this thread that I am fine with new characters that are bi or gay.
2) I can't agree with you on Tali or Garrus.

Then I think we just have to agree to disagree. I have stated numerous times that I feel that there has already been ample evidence (or at least lack of counter-evidence) to suggest that Tali has a crush on FemShep and that Garrus is Shepard-sexual. If these characters were "suddenly" bisexual, it would not feel like a change. It would feel like something that was always there, always part of the characters, and would not be at all surprising. In fact, I think my actual response would be, "Duh, obviously."

Very Well.

Fair enough. Though I am genuinely curious, what do you think about Tali's canonical crush on Female Shepard? Or do you take a different reading from her flustered reaction about the suit environments? I always took that to be outright crush territory and figured Tali's feelings were canon, but maybe someone else got something else from it?