1677 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

When you consider that all of the information we have on these characters comes from Bioware you begin to realize that they can change anything they want and just call "handwavium" and we will still buy it.

I have to take a stance in opposition to the OP. I DO feel they should offer same-sex romances. You can choose not to romance those characters if you don't want to experience that. Hell, if it offends you, don't pick up the game. However, claiming that not adding same-sex romances because of a hyper-demographic can be turned on it's head, and you can call the "anti-same-sex LI" folk a hyper-demographic also.

Way I see, simply in the interest of fairness it should be included, and if that's bothers you, there are a ton of other games sitting on that shelf at the game store...pick one of them up.

Not having the LIs in ME3 be bi isn't unfair. Another game in the ME universe can be made, and that may feature same sex romances.

[Elite Midget]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

And yet I still want straight mansex with Garrus.

Play DA2, or DAO.

Garrus isn't in those games... Awefully selfish of you to deny others the chance to romance them regardless of gender. Besides, it might even save Bioware money and we all know how much Bioware loves money!

Modifié par Elite Midget, 22 mars 2011 - 03:17 .

[Almostfaceman]

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

When you consider that all of the information we have on these characters comes from Bioware you begin to realize that they can change anything they want and just call "handwavium" and we will still buy it.

I have to take a stance in opposition to the OP. I DO feel they should offer same-sex romances. You can choose not to romance those characters if you don't want to experience that. Hell, if it offends you, don't pick up the game. However, claiming that not adding same-sex romances because of a hyper-demographic can be turned on it's head, and you can call the "anti-same-sex LI" folk a hyper-demographic also.

Way I see, simply in the interest of fairness it should be included, and if that's bothers you, there are a ton of other games sitting on that shelf at the game store...pick one of them up.

I think you're missing the point that if it's done to characters who already exist as "straight" it'll break the character for most of us.  The OP is not opposed to "new" characters with same sex LI's.

And if that offends you, you don't have to pick up the game. 

[Elite Midget]

I didn't see Tali as straight or a LI in ME1.

Just because she became those in ME2 ddn't break her character for me at all. I just decided not to pursue her.

[Dr. Megaverse]

Double post, sorry!

Modifié par Dr. Megaverse, 22 mars 2011 - 03:19 .

[Almostfaceman]

Elite Midget wrote...

I didn't see Tali as straight or a LI in ME1.

Just because she became those in ME2 ddn't break her character for me at all. I just decided not to pursue her.

I know you're a troll but I'll goof around with you since you obviously need internet lovin'.

Point out specific dialogue or actions that led you to believe that Tali was "bisexual".  Good luck, btw, since there isn't any dialogue that tells us anything about her sexuality.

[Dr. Megaverse]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

When you consider that all of the information we have on these characters comes from Bioware you begin to realize that they can change anything they want and just call "handwavium" and we will still buy it.

I have to take a stance in opposition to the OP. I DO feel they should offer same-sex romances. You can choose not to romance those characters if you don't want to experience that. Hell, if it offends you, don't pick up the game. However, claiming that not adding same-sex romances because of a hyper-demographic can be turned on it's head, and you can call the "anti-same-sex LI" folk a hyper-demographic also.

Way I see, simply in the interest of fairness it should be included, and if that's bothers you, there are a ton of other games sitting on that shelf at the game store...pick one of them up.

I think you're missing the point that if it's done to characters who already exist as "straight" it'll break the character for most of us.  The OP is not opposed to "new" characters with same sex LI's.

And if that offends you, you don't have to pick up the game. 

At the danger of squandering my morning ME2 time, I'll bite.

If I saw more straight people standing in line at Game Stop ****ing about how the same sex romances in Bioware games sickens them I might think that including them would be more offensive to a larger audience.  

As it is, I find that the hardcore anti-gay lobby is just as vociferous as the hardcore pro-gay lobby.  A happy balance is giving everyone what they want, and then asking people who don't care for it to make the personal choice to abstain from partaking. 

[Chewin]

I agree with the OP. If, for example, Ash would turn out to be gay/bi it would be so awkward and stupid.

Shep: I haven't seen you in 2 years, I meet you on Horizon but it all got f*cked up. But now I can finally be with you.

Ash: But Shepard, I'm gay

Shep: *facepalm*

or

Ash: But Shepard, I'm bi

Shep: Dammit. Oh wait, now I can have both you and Liara. Huzzaa!

Modifié par Chewin3, 22 mars 2011 - 03:29 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Edit to clarify: The following is regarding new characters, not retcons.

3. It's unrealistic. Not everyone in life is bisexual.

It is more realistic then the current "Alice is interested in Bob if and only if is male". It just makes the characters seem incredibly petty - aliens who've never seen a human before will be attracted to ugly+racist+sadist!Shepard as long as Shepard male but not otherwise?

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 22 mars 2011 - 03:33 .

[jeweledleah]

losing battle, that. considering how they handled the "switch" in DA2, at this point I'm more afraid of the general sweeping character changes, sexuality really fades in comparison to what they can do to rewrite established characters to make them more appealing to people outside of the fanbases. just think of how many people dislike Ashley and Kaidan for being racist/whiny bore and how many people disliked Liara...until her very glaring personality changes in ME2 in general, shadow broker in particular. Now consider the personality changes to DA2 characters from their prior incarnations, the fact that they retconed/cop-ed out on some of the decisions in DAO if they didn't fit into their canonic ideas for DA2 (essentially rendering those decisions meaningless) and "expanded/subjective" sexuality becomes such a relatively insignificant change, regardless of how you feel about it...

I don't want the characters to be changed, rewritten, in any way. I'm afraid that they will be anyways.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 22 mars 2011 - 03:31 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

jeweledleah wrote...

losing battle, that. considering how they handled the "switch" in DA2, at this point I'm more afraid of the general sweeping character changes, sexuality really fades in comparison to what they can do to rewrite established characters to make them more appealing to people outside of the fanbases. just think of how many people dislike Ashley and Kaidan for being racist/whiny bore and how many people disliked Liara...until her very glaring personality changes in ME2 in general, shadow broker in particular. Now consider the personality changes to DA2 characters from their prior incarnations, the fact that they retconed/cop-ed out on some of the decisions in DAO if they didn't fit into their canonic ideas for DA2 (essentially rendering those decisions meaningless) and "expanded/subjective" sexuality becomes such a relatively insignificant change, regardless of how you feel about it...

I don't want the characters to be changed, rewritten, in any way. I'm afraid that they will be anyways.

Me too. 

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Nyoka wrote...

I thought how they handled it in Jade Empire was neat. If you start a new profile as a man, your LI happen to be attracted by men. If you start a new game as a woman, LIs happen to be attracted to women. That is, each profile is different, and the characters are different as well. This doesn't affect them negatively because they are not defined by their sexuality, but by their personality and background. Sky is not "a homosexual", he is a man who had a daughter who was killed by Gao's men, etcetera. And he is very down to earth and jolly. That's what he is as a character. His lines regarding romance are practically the same regardless of your character.

This doesn't mean LIs are bisexual. They are heterosexual or homosexual depending of the profile you are playing with. If you are playing with a man, you don't have to imagine what women or gay men in other parts of the world are doing with their games, and feeling bad about their having the same experiences as your hetero man. Focus in your own game, in which your LI is heterosexual. That's all you should care about. This way, every player gets the same experience in the game, which I think is a good thing. This "I like Ashley, but actually I think it sucks because she is attracted to a woman in another computer, in someone else's game" I find a little strange. Why should you care about it?

As for characters from ME1&2, IIRC none of them rejected Shepard. They didn't say "sorry, not interested". The game doesn't even allow Shepard to start the conversation that would end up in romance if the companion she's talking with happens to be of the same sex, so I think there's plenty of room for implementing something like the Jade Empire system in ME3.

It's too late to add something like that. There is no point in adding ANYTHING like that.

[coolair74]

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

When you consider that all of the information we have on these characters comes from Bioware you begin to realize that they can change anything they want and just call "handwavium" and we will still buy it.

I have to take a stance in opposition to the OP. I DO feel they should offer same-sex romances. You can choose not to romance those characters if you don't want to experience that. Hell, if it offends you, don't pick up the game. However, claiming that not adding same-sex romances because of a hyper-demographic can be turned on it's head, and you can call the "anti-same-sex LI" folk a hyper-demographic also.

Way I see, simply in the interest of fairness it should be included, and if that's bothers you, there are a ton of other games sitting on that shelf at the game store...pick one of them up.

I think you're missing the point that if it's done to characters who already exist as "straight" it'll break the character for most of us.  The OP is not opposed to "new" characters with same sex LI's.

And if that offends you, you don't have to pick up the game. 

At the danger of squandering my morning ME2 time, I'll bite.

If I saw more straight people standing in line at Game Stop ****ing about how the same sex romances in Bioware games sickens them I might think that including them would be more offensive to a larger audience.  

As it is, I find that the hardcore anti-gay lobby is just as vociferous as the hardcore pro-gay lobby.  A happy balance is giving everyone what they want, and then asking people who don't care for it to make the personal choice to abstain from partaking. 

You have missed the point entirely and you keep missing the point.  Its not about any Gay/Bi LI, its about NOT changing our beloved shipmates to pander to a small demographic.  Most people are not opposed to Gay/bi LI's, but Garrus all the sudden wanting mansex is just gonna ****** ppl off.

The problem is you cant give everyone what they want, but you can please most ppl.  But as stated before, if Garrus or Grunt  suddenly start looking at my buttocks , im out , cya Bioware.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Nyoka wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
It's too late to add something like that. There is no point in adding ANYTHING like that.

Actually, there is a point. The point of allowing everyone to experience the same game.

Should I assume that, if it weren't "too late", you would be totally for it?

Actually, it isn't possible to appease everyone.

If this was ME1, not ME3, sure why not?

[MajesticJazz]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

1. It cheapens the romances.
2. The romances lose their uniqueness (kind of like 1, but whatever)
3. It's unrealistic. Not everyone in life is bisexual. (it's a game, sure, but ME should be one of the realistic kind)
4. If it happened, there would be arguments over whether Manshep or Femshep is better with x character.
5. DA2 tried this, but if you ask me, it didn't feel as good as the ME romances.
6. It's a bit late to make them bi in ME3. ME1 was released in 2007 or something. If they were going to be bi, it should have been then.
7. Wouldn't it be awkward if the LIs were just suddenly bi? It would seem like it was done just to appease people (which is LAME)

1. Can you claify how it cheapens the romance?
2. Again, can you expand upon why they loose uniqueness?
3. Its a videogame, so why are you complaining about realism? Shepard fell into a space vacum, splatted on a planet, recovered and brought back to life. That isn't realistic either. Nor is the manipulation of Dark Energy for Biotics.
4. What?
5. That is your opinion, and in my opinion, the DA2 romances (straight or bi) were more fleshed out than ME2's. They felt more like a relationship and less like a upcoming fling sex scene.
6. You have a point.....
7. True, but Garrus and Tali were made romances to appease people as well and that was only met with much praise. Not to mention, I see that you have Tali as your Avatar and a Shepard/Tali romance themed sig. So that proves that you support Bioware's reason to do a "Fan Service" gesture to appease people. You obviously seem fine with that so how come Bioware can't do it for people who want Bi LIs?


And finally, how does a Bi or Gay romance effect you in any way? I wasn't too big on Bioware making Garrus and Tali romance options, but in the game, I did not romance them as I wasn't forced to. So if Ashley, Kaiden, Miranda, Jacob etc....become Bi options in ME3, just don't persue a Bi option with them. I plan on doing a Male Hawke playthrough in Dragon Age 2 in which he'll romance Isabella, so I'll just ignore the Fenris/Anders "romance" options/conversations and keep it straight on a "bro" relationship like my male Shepard had with Jacob and Kaiden.

Modifié par MajesticJazz, 22 mars 2011 - 03:47 .

[Naltair]

Just add new characters with those options.

[Dr. Megaverse]

coolair74 wrote...

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

When you consider that all of the information we have on these characters comes from Bioware you begin to realize that they can change anything they want and just call "handwavium" and we will still buy it.

I have to take a stance in opposition to the OP. I DO feel they should offer same-sex romances. You can choose not to romance those characters if you don't want to experience that. Hell, if it offends you, don't pick up the game. However, claiming that not adding same-sex romances because of a hyper-demographic can be turned on it's head, and you can call the "anti-same-sex LI" folk a hyper-demographic also.

Way I see, simply in the interest of fairness it should be included, and if that's bothers you, there are a ton of other games sitting on that shelf at the game store...pick one of them up.

I think you're missing the point that if it's done to characters who already exist as "straight" it'll break the character for most of us.  The OP is not opposed to "new" characters with same sex LI's.

And if that offends you, you don't have to pick up the game. 

At the danger of squandering my morning ME2 time, I'll bite.

If I saw more straight people standing in line at Game Stop ****ing about how the same sex romances in Bioware games sickens them I might think that including them would be more offensive to a larger audience.  

As it is, I find that the hardcore anti-gay lobby is just as vociferous as the hardcore pro-gay lobby.  A happy balance is giving everyone what they want, and then asking people who don't care for it to make the personal choice to abstain from partaking. 

You have missed the point entirely and you keep missing the point.  Its not about any Gay/Bi LI, its about NOT changing our beloved shipmates to pander to a small demographic.  Most people are not opposed to Gay/bi LI's, but Garrus all the sudden wanting mansex is just gonna ****** ppl off.

The problem is you cant give everyone what they want, but you can please most ppl.  But as stated before, if Garrus or Grunt  suddenly start looking at my buttocks , im out , cya Bioware.

This assumes an "all or none" approach.  If bisexuality would be contrary to a characters backstory or personality it wouldn't have to be applied, however, as I said in my first post, considering that all of this information is from Bioware and has big holes in it on purpose (so they can fill them as they see fit) you could write anything into a characters backstory and if done well enough wouldn't be terrible.  Hell, for all we know Jack is a terrorist who bombs school buildings full of children, and writing that into her story could be done....same thing for bisexuality, just with a few more prerequisites.  

I guess I should mention that having bisexual LIs in ME3 isn't a make or break deal for me, I'll play it either way, but for some it might, and I argue those people could be addressed without all the fusss people seem to think it would cause.  Then again, thats just my unique perspective.  

Modifié par Dr. Megaverse, 22 mars 2011 - 03:45 .

[AlexMBrennan]

but Garrus all the sudden wanting mansex is just gonna ****** ppl off.

Why? Last I checked Garrus looked very alien and he outright tells you that he isn't attracted to humans. Why, exactly, is it more weird for him to be interested in male Shepard than a female?

[Naltair]

I found the whole every LI is bisexual in DA2, silly and contrived, it makes the characters seem less like "characters" and more like some prize. It just came off as silly. Just present a well rounded cast of straight, bisexual, and gay characters and call it a day.

[JPanzerj]

With monogendered races such as the Asari I don't see it as a problem, as they don't have the gay/bi thang goin' on, so to speak. A new bi/gay crewmate I wouldn't mind; but I'd probably have a problem if one of your existing crewmembers turned out to be bi/gay as the characters are already well established and would've been mentioned previously. If Kelly turned out to be bisexual, I wouldn't be suprised. One of the characters that needs more expansion I think but thats another topic.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Naltair wrote...

Just add new characters with those options.

Exactly. I'm not saying that there can never be same sex romance in ME3, I';m saying that caracters who are what they are now should remain so.

[Whyp_2]

Chewin3 wrote...

Ash: But Shepard, I'm bi

Shep: Dammit. Oh wait, now I can have both you and Liara. Huzzaa!

But that's a good thing