1677 réponses à ce sujet

[coolair74]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

If they were new characters, that would be fine with me. But I'm against changing pre-existing ones.

I think you might have had better luck with this thread if you'd titled it/made the main question, "Does making pre-existing LIs bisexual change them?" because in the end THAT is the main question and the topic that can be debated. I know you are against changing pre-existing characters, but the problem is that argument so far doesn't hold weight with those of us on the other side, because our response is, "But we're not changing anything, just learning more about them!" If we all took a step back and debated THAT issue - does a revelation about sexuality (or just attraction to Shepard and being otherwise straight) change a character - that is a much meatier and more valid argument, whereas now we're all arguing at cross purposes with entirely different assumptions and perspectives. We're not even arguing the same thing, really.

Looking back, I should have chosen a softer toned title.

That certainly would have helped. For one, clarifying that you specifically meant changing existing LIs may have softened some of the impact (though there are still those, myself included, that would disagree). Also, it would have helped IMMENSELY if you'd phrased it as a question ("Should existing LI's be bisexual?") and just mentioned your own feelings in the first post ("I personally don't think so, because X and Y." with a lot less of the RUINED FOREVER language). Then it could just be a discussion between different viewpoints rather than telling a large section of the ME fanbase that "No, this thing that you want should NOT happen ever!"

Well as much as you want it, I dont wont it, so we counter each other , thus nothing changes.  I win

[coolair74]

mopotter wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

Well this isnt Dragon Age.  Your playing a narrative. Male Shep is straiGHt. He was written this way and the Devs have said they arnt going to change that. At least so far.

Its a great game with a great plot and some deverse characters, changing it now would just muttle things up.

I did also say that I'd like to see a more diverse experience in a future game series. I like Mass Effect as it is, and I absolutely love its narrative style. Although, I really don't see how his sexuality would change him as a character but that's not the point of this. I'd like to see BioWare build on the previous two games, story and character-wise, instead of introducing a plethora of new features. :3

Edited: To take out the quote spam.

I agree, Shepards sexuality wouldn't change him as a character if they gave us a m/m option.  And I would also like to see them build on the previous two games for those of us who have been playing since ME1, and not just throw in a bunch of sparkly new things to attract anyone who hasn't played the game.  

Having it be stand alone game is ok, but it should be a stand alone game that is better if you played the other two.  And back on topic, by including the past two games, the LI from those games should not be changed in ME3, which you mentioned.    

I expect them to bring in new characters, it's a thing they do, and I'd be quite happy if those characters are SS romancable.    

Actually I just read somewhere that Shepard isnt gay, that true?

[UsagiVindaloo]

Actually, that joke post upthread made me think... there are plenty of fans who are also interested in getting existing non-LIs as romances in ME3 despite them also not having indicated interest. If, say, ME3 introduced Joker as a love interest for both genders of Shepard, what would you think of that? I mean, having him suddenly into male Shepard would be no more or less abrupt than him suddenly digging Female Shepard.

[UsagiVindaloo]

coolair74 wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

If they were new characters, that would be fine with me. But I'm against changing pre-existing ones.

I think you might have had better luck with this thread if you'd titled it/made the main question, "Does making pre-existing LIs bisexual change them?" because in the end THAT is the main question and the topic that can be debated. I know you are against changing pre-existing characters, but the problem is that argument so far doesn't hold weight with those of us on the other side, because our response is, "But we're not changing anything, just learning more about them!" If we all took a step back and debated THAT issue - does a revelation about sexuality (or just attraction to Shepard and being otherwise straight) change a character - that is a much meatier and more valid argument, whereas now we're all arguing at cross purposes with entirely different assumptions and perspectives. We're not even arguing the same thing, really.

Looking back, I should have chosen a softer toned title.

That certainly would have helped. For one, clarifying that you specifically meant changing existing LIs may have softened some of the impact (though there are still those, myself included, that would disagree). Also, it would have helped IMMENSELY if you'd phrased it as a question ("Should existing LI's be bisexual?") and just mentioned your own feelings in the first post ("I personally don't think so, because X and Y." with a lot less of the RUINED FOREVER language). Then it could just be a discussion between different viewpoints rather than telling a large section of the ME fanbase that "No, this thing that you want should NOT happen ever!"

Well as much as you want it, I dont wont it, so we counter each other , thus nothing changes.  I win

Not necessarily, you'd have to prove why having bisexual characters or a bisexual Male Shepard (all optional) would decrease your enjoyment of the game; the other side does have a slightly easier time of that in that they've already indicated quite extensively why not having these options decreases their enjoyment. Whichever option produces the most net increase in enjoyment for the least net decrease in enjoyment wins.

[Naltair]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Actually, that joke post upthread made me think... there are plenty of fans who are also interested in getting existing non-LIs as romances in ME3 despite them also not having indicated interest. If, say, ME3 introduced Joker as a love interest for both genders of Shepard, what would you think of that? I mean, having him suddenly into male Shepard would be no more or less abrupt than him suddenly digging Female Shepard.

You can't please everyone.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

If they were new characters, that would be fine with me. But I'm against changing pre-existing ones.

I think you might have had better luck with this thread if you'd titled it/made the main question, "Does making pre-existing LIs bisexual change them?" because in the end THAT is the main question and the topic that can be debated. I know you are against changing pre-existing characters, but the problem is that argument so far doesn't hold weight with those of us on the other side, because our response is, "But we're not changing anything, just learning more about them!" If we all took a step back and debated THAT issue - does a revelation about sexuality (or just attraction to Shepard and being otherwise straight) change a character - that is a much meatier and more valid argument, whereas now we're all arguing at cross purposes with entirely different assumptions and perspectives. We're not even arguing the same thing, really.

Looking back, I should have chosen a softer toned title.

That certainly would have helped. For one, clarifying that you specifically meant changing existing LIs may have softened some of the impact (though there are still those, myself included, that would disagree). Also, it would have helped IMMENSELY if you'd phrased it as a question ("Should existing LI's be bisexual?") and just mentioned your own feelings in the first post ("I personally don't think so, because X and Y." with a lot less of the RUINED FOREVER language). Then it could just be a discussion between different viewpoints rather than telling a large section of the ME fanbase that "No, this thing that you want should NOT happen ever!"

Well, at least I asked if people disagreed with me.

[Heather Cline]

I was disappointed that they took out that Tali was supposed to be bi and that Jack was supposed to be bi in ME2. I know that one or two of the males from ME2 were also supposed to be bi as well but was removed.

I'm not saying that the characters from ME2 should be automatically bi in ME3, but if they do introduce another set of characters for LI's in the third installment. I want a choice between always having to have Liara for my shepard or a human female or some other female based character on my team.

I'm tired with the whole anti-gay thing in the ME series. Should pre-existing characters become bi, no. Should those who had been planned to be bi but was removed become bi again? Possibly if done right.

However this entire thread was about no bi-sexual LI in ME3 which though the OP said that they weren't anti-LGBT makes me wonder if the OP is in fact anti-LGBT in the first place. I'm not accusing the OP of that but I still have to wonder.

My two cents.

[coolair74]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Actually, that joke post upthread made me think... there are plenty of fans who are also interested in getting existing non-LIs as romances in ME3 despite them also not having indicated interest. If, say, ME3 introduced Joker as a love interest for both genders of Shepard, what would you think of that? I mean, having him suddenly into male Shepard would be no more or less abrupt than him suddenly digging Female Shepard.

Please no.

Joker is in love with EDI anyway.  Also Dumb dumb Kelly is a better fit for him.

The only person I can see having an interest that didnt before would be Samara, but i dont think she is gonna be in ME3, she said she was leaving after the mission.

I think we can all agree that no one wants Grunt.

That just leaves Mortin and he is creepy.......


I dont know why but my favorite buddy is Legion.  That guy is cool. or guys or whatever. I hope they fix the big gaping hole in his chest.

[Centauri2002]

coolair74 wrote...

mopotter wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

Well this isnt Dragon Age.  Your playing a narrative. Male Shep is straiGHt. He was written this way and the Devs have said they arnt going to change that. At least so far.

Its a great game with a great plot and some deverse characters, changing it now would just muttle things up.

I did also say that I'd like to see a more diverse experience in a future game series. I like Mass Effect as it is, and I absolutely love its narrative style. Although, I really don't see how his sexuality would change him as a character but that's not the point of this. I'd like to see BioWare build on the previous two games, story and character-wise, instead of introducing a plethora of new features. :3

Edited: To take out the quote spam.

I agree, Shepards sexuality wouldn't change him as a character if they gave us a m/m option.  And I would also like to see them build on the previous two games for those of us who have been playing since ME1, and not just throw in a bunch of sparkly new things to attract anyone who hasn't played the game.  

Having it be stand alone game is ok, but it should be a stand alone game that is better if you played the other two.  And back on topic, by including the past two games, the LI from those games should not be changed in ME3, which you mentioned.    

I expect them to bring in new characters, it's a thing they do, and I'd be quite happy if those characters are SS romancable.    

Actually I just read somewhere that Shepard isnt gay, that true?

Lies, my Shepard's gay.

[mopotter]

RenownedRyan wrote...

 But I sincerely do not believe that the quality of Mass Effect would be negatively effected without romances of any kind.

Your right, the game would still be good, but since the romances are one of the main reason I'll pick a BioWare game over some other companies, it wouldn't be at the top of my game list.    It's one of the major things that separates BioWare from any other game company out there.  The choice in being male or female, the romances and the great story.  All of them are important qualities for me. 

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Heather Cline wrote...

I was disappointed that they took out that Tali was supposed to be bi and that Jack was supposed to be bi in ME2. I know that one or two of the males from ME2 were also supposed to be bi as well but was removed.

I'm not saying that the characters from ME2 should be automatically bi in ME3, but if they do introduce another set of characters for LI's in the third installment. I want a choice between always having to have Liara for my shepard or a human female or some other female based character on my team.

I'm tired with the whole anti-gay thing in the ME series. Should pre-existing characters become bi, no. Should those who had been planned to be bi but was removed become bi again? Possibly if done right.

However this entire thread was about no bi-sexual LI in ME3 which though the OP said that they weren't anti-LGBT makes me wonder if the OP is in fact anti-LGBT in the first place. I'm not accusing the OP of that but I still have to wonder.

My two cents.

Actually, the thread was about not changing pre existing LIs into bi ones. Please read the thread.

[coolair74]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

If they were new characters, that would be fine with me. But I'm against changing pre-existing ones.

I think you might have had better luck with this thread if you'd titled it/made the main question, "Does making pre-existing LIs bisexual change them?" because in the end THAT is the main question and the topic that can be debated. I know you are against changing pre-existing characters, but the problem is that argument so far doesn't hold weight with those of us on the other side, because our response is, "But we're not changing anything, just learning more about them!" If we all took a step back and debated THAT issue - does a revelation about sexuality (or just attraction to Shepard and being otherwise straight) change a character - that is a much meatier and more valid argument, whereas now we're all arguing at cross purposes with entirely different assumptions and perspectives. We're not even arguing the same thing, really.

Looking back, I should have chosen a softer toned title.

That certainly would have helped. For one, clarifying that you specifically meant changing existing LIs may have softened some of the impact (though there are still those, myself included, that would disagree). Also, it would have helped IMMENSELY if you'd phrased it as a question ("Should existing LI's be bisexual?") and just mentioned your own feelings in the first post ("I personally don't think so, because X and Y." with a lot less of the RUINED FOREVER language). Then it could just be a discussion between different viewpoints rather than telling a large section of the ME fanbase that "No, this thing that you want should NOT happen ever!"

Well as much as you want it, I dont wont it, so we counter each other , thus nothing changes.  I win

Not necessarily, you'd have to prove why having bisexual characters or a bisexual Male Shepard (all optional) would decrease your enjoyment of the game; the other side does have a slightly easier time of that in that they've already indicated quite extensively why not having these options decreases their enjoyment. Whichever option produces the most net increase in enjoyment for the least net decrease in enjoyment wins.

I am clearly more important than everyone else, thus I win.

Seriously though, I could go into it, but I dont want to offend anyone on my outdated views about traditional couplings. Call me a backward hick I am not as forward thinking as some would like

[Heather Cline]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

I made this thread because I was a little worried after DA2 (my opinion only)

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a homophobe. This is just how I feel. This is not homophobic. Anybody who calls me one is just as bad as the ones who ARE anti gay.

Why? For the following reasons:

1. It cheapens the romances.
2. The romances lose their uniqueness (kind of like 1, but whatever)
3. It's unrealistic. Not everyone in life is bisexual. (it's a game, sure, but ME should be one of the realistic kind)
4. If it happened, there would be arguments over whether Manshep or Femshep is better with x character.
5. DA2 tried this, but if you ask me, it didn't feel as good as the ME romances.
6. It's a bit late to make them bi in ME3. ME1 was released in 2007 or something. If they were going to be bi, it should have been then.
7. Wouldn't it be awkward if the LIs were just suddenly bi? It would seem like it was done just to appease people (which is LAME)

EDIT:
8. If at least ONE person that could have been bi, it should have been Jack (my opinion)

So do you agree with me? Do you disagree?


Discuss.

No the entire name of the thread is LIs should NOT be bisexual in ME3. Exactly your name of the topic. Also you did not put anything in about Jack until later when someone called you on it and you edited your post. Furthermore your original post states that no one should be Bisexual except Jack in ME3 and that's it. There was nothing in your original post stating otherwise. I have quoted your original post here.

[coolair74]

centauri2002 wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

mopotter wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

Well this isnt Dragon Age.  Your playing a narrative. Male Shep is straiGHt. He was written this way and the Devs have said they arnt going to change that. At least so far.

Its a great game with a great plot and some deverse characters, changing it now would just muttle things up.

I did also say that I'd like to see a more diverse experience in a future game series. I like Mass Effect as it is, and I absolutely love its narrative style. Although, I really don't see how his sexuality would change him as a character but that's not the point of this. I'd like to see BioWare build on the previous two games, story and character-wise, instead of introducing a plethora of new features. :3

Edited: To take out the quote spam.

I agree, Shepards sexuality wouldn't change him as a character if they gave us a m/m option.  And I would also like to see them build on the previous two games for those of us who have been playing since ME1, and not just throw in a bunch of sparkly new things to attract anyone who hasn't played the game.  

Having it be stand alone game is ok, but it should be a stand alone game that is better if you played the other two.  And back on topic, by including the past two games, the LI from those games should not be changed in ME3, which you mentioned.    

I expect them to bring in new characters, it's a thing they do, and I'd be quite happy if those characters are SS romancable.    

Actually I just read somewhere that Shepard isnt gay, that true?

Lies, my Shepard's gay.

 the Devs disagree.

[Pwener2313]

If Miranda gets a threesome with Shepard and Liara I approve.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Heather Cline wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

I made this thread because I was a little worried after DA2 (my opinion only)

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a homophobe. This is just how I feel. This is not homophobic. Anybody who calls me one is just as bad as the ones who ARE anti gay.

Why? For the following reasons:

1. It cheapens the romances.
2. The romances lose their uniqueness (kind of like 1, but whatever)
3. It's unrealistic. Not everyone in life is bisexual. (it's a game, sure, but ME should be one of the realistic kind)
4. If it happened, there would be arguments over whether Manshep or Femshep is better with x character.
5. DA2 tried this, but if you ask me, it didn't feel as good as the ME romances.
6. It's a bit late to make them bi in ME3. ME1 was released in 2007 or something. If they were going to be bi, it should have been then.
7. Wouldn't it be awkward if the LIs were just suddenly bi? It would seem like it was done just to appease people (which is LAME)

EDIT:
8. If at least ONE person that could have been bi, it should have been Jack (my opinion)

So do you agree with me? Do you disagree?


Discuss.

No the entire name of the thread is LIs should NOT be bisexual in ME3. Exactly your name of the topic. Also you did not put anything in about Jack until later when someone called you on it and you edited your post. Furthermore your original post states that no one should be Bisexual except Jack in ME3 and that's it. There was nothing in your original post stating otherwise. I have quoted your original post here.

Like I said, read the thread.

[Pwener2313]

[quote]coolair74 wrote...

Actually I just read somewhere that Shepard isnt gay, that true?[/quote]

Lies, my Shepard's gay.

[/quote]
 the Devs disagree.[/quote]

Ouch.

[coolair74]

Heather Cline wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

I made this thread because I was a little worried after DA2 (my opinion only)

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a homophobe. This is just how I feel. This is not homophobic. Anybody who calls me one is just as bad as the ones who ARE anti gay.

Why? For the following reasons:

1. It cheapens the romances.
2. The romances lose their uniqueness (kind of like 1, but whatever)
3. It's unrealistic. Not everyone in life is bisexual. (it's a game, sure, but ME should be one of the realistic kind)
4. If it happened, there would be arguments over whether Manshep or Femshep is better with x character.
5. DA2 tried this, but if you ask me, it didn't feel as good as the ME romances.
6. It's a bit late to make them bi in ME3. ME1 was released in 2007 or something. If they were going to be bi, it should have been then.
7. Wouldn't it be awkward if the LIs were just suddenly bi? It would seem like it was done just to appease people (which is LAME)

EDIT:
8. If at least ONE person that could have been bi, it should have been Jack (my opinion)

So do you agree with me? Do you disagree?


Discuss.

No the entire name of the thread is LIs should NOT be bisexual in ME3. Exactly your name of the topic. Also you did not put anything in about Jack until later when someone called you on it and you edited your post. Furthermore your original post states that no one should be Bisexual except Jack in ME3 and that's it. There was nothing in your original post stating otherwise. I have quoted your original post here.

Yes he changed it and he cited that he did, he also said that he should  have phrased the title a bit more nicely. We have all forgiven him. That was about 10 pages back or something, please read all posts before accusing someone of lying.

[Centauri2002]

coolair74 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...


Lies, my Shepard's gay.

 the Devs disagree.

Pfft, what would they know?

They only input all the variables. I played her story. If they wanted Shepard to be seen in only one way, they would have made it a linear story, or a movie. The game is what you make of it.

[coolair74]

Pwener2313 wrote...

If Miranda gets a threesome with Shepard and Liara I approve.

QFT, is that a three way or a 1- 1- 1 way?

(Liara isnt a girl )

[coolair74]

centauri2002 wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...


Lies, my Shepard's gay.

 the Devs disagree.

Pfft, what would they know?

They only input all the variables. I played her story. If they wanted Shepard to be seen in only one way, they would have made it a linear story, or a movie. The game is what you make of it.

Im referring to the male shepard, the fmeshep is indeed Bi.

But Male Shepards sexuality is not a variable or you would be able to change it.  Its simply fact.

[Pwener2313]

Canon says that a Shepard who does not romance is just a lonely bastard, not "gay". BW has never said that they'll make a gay/lesbian character (bad for PR).Marketing a possibly gay character is vaery bad idea these days (look at Gay Tony). Maybe it'll be accepted in a decade or two, but not these days, not yet.

Modifié par Pwener2313, 22 mars 2011 - 11:35 .

[Naltair]

Devs can't control how players feel about their characters once it is in the wild. Specifically Shepard is designed to be imprinted with the desires of the player.

[coolair74]

Naltair wrote...

Devs can't control how players feel about their characters once it is in the wild. Specifically Shepard is designed to be imprinted with the desires of the player.

They gave you limitations, this is one of em. Respect the intergrity of the narrative.

Modifié par coolair74, 22 mars 2011 - 11:37 .

[Centauri2002]

coolair74 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...


Lies, my Shepard's gay.

 the Devs disagree.

Pfft, what would they know?

They only input all the variables. I played her story. If they wanted Shepard to be seen in only one way, they would have made it a linear story, or a movie. The game is what you make of it.

Im referring to the male shepard, the fmeshep is indeed Bi.

But Male Shepards sexuality is not a variable or you would be able to change it.  Its simply fact.

What makes FemShep bisexual then? If she never romances a male and is only attracted to female-looking or female characters (Liara and Kelly, for example), why is she not gay? Or is it beyond the realm of possibility that a woman can not possibly be attracted to men? I suppose that would save a lot of egos. >.> I don't mind if your FemShep, or anyone else's is straight or bi, but no one's going to tell me what sexuality mine is. I shall not be swayed.