1677 réponses à ce sujet

[Pwener2313]

Naltair wrote...

Devs can't control how players feel about their characters once it is in the wild. Specifically Shepard is designed to be imprinted with the desires of the player.

Wrong, we define Shepard. Everything else is up to BW to choose. Everything before ME1's intro is set by BW. Canonically, Eartborn Shepard was in a gang, you like it or not. We make choices and choose how Shepard responds to conversations. This isn't The Sims, we can't choose Shepard's ideals or personality (yes, he has a set personality because our choices define us, thety don't make up who we are).

Choices define us, they do not compose who we truly are in the inside. Shepard (canonically) is straight (both genders). Liara is just a monosexual spoof that confuses newbies. You may think that your special Shepard is gay/lesbian (specially lesbian if she is with Liara) but the truth is there for you to see. Accept it at your own discretion, so please don't get mad at me. Get mad at the Developers.

EDIT: Forgot about Kelly. I really don't have an answear for her "romance" if it can be called that.

I guess since Femshep isn't widely known outside of the ME community of players and not the general media, they let her slide with a few under the table...... wait, that came out wrong.

Modifié par Pwener2313, 22 mars 2011 - 11:43 .

[coolair74]

centauri2002 wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...


Lies, my Shepard's gay.

 the Devs disagree.

Pfft, what would they know?

They only input all the variables. I played her story. If they wanted Shepard to be seen in only one way, they would have made it a linear story, or a movie. The game is what you make of it.

Im referring to the male shepard, the fmeshep is indeed Bi.

But Male Shepards sexuality is not a variable or you would be able to change it.  Its simply fact.

What makes FemShep bisexual then? If she never romances a male and is only attracted to female-looking or female characters (Liara and Kelly, for example), why is she not gay? Or is it beyond the realm of possibility that a woman can not possibly be attracted to men? I suppose that would save a lot of egos. >.> I don't mind if your FemShep, or anyone else's is straight or bi, but no one's going to tell me what sexuality mine is. I shall not be swayed.

Well I guess she can be gay. Really doesnt matter to me since I havent and prolly wont play femshep. As for Manshep,  he has way too much manliness, he gets a woman pregnant just by lookin at em.

He is my mancrush.....doh i think i just made your point!

[Centauri2002]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Devs can't control how players feel about their characters once it is in the wild. Specifically Shepard is designed to be imprinted with the desires of the player.

Wrong, we define Shepard. Everything else is up to BW to choose. Everything before ME1's intro is set by BW. Canonically, Eartborn Shepard was in a gang, you like it or not. We make choices and choose how Shepard responds to conversations. This isn't The Sims, we can't choose Shepard's ideals or personality (yes, he has a set personality because our choices define us, thety don't make up who we are).

Choices define us, they do not compose who we truly are in the inside. Shepard (canonically) is straight (both genders). Liara is just a monosexual spoof that confuses newbies. You may think that your special Shepard is gay/lesbian (specially lesbian if she is with Liara) but the truth is there for you to see. Accept it at your own discretion, so please don't get mad at me. Get mad at the Developers.

I'll sit back and enjoy as you try to explain Kelly then. :3

[Naltair]

coolair74 wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Devs can't control how players feel about their characters once it is in the wild. Specifically Shepard is designed to be imprinted with the desires of the player.

They gave you limitations, this is one of em. Respect the intergrity of the narrative.

You are missing my point, BioWare can't control how people see their character.  Shepard can be both genders for a greater connection between the individual player and the character.  Sure they dictate much about him/her but we the player guide that journey and project our desires onto the chaarcters.

Hence why people can see Tali/Garrus/Jacob/etc. as bisexual and others as not, we see what we want to see.

[Centauri2002]

coolair74 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...


Lies, my Shepard's gay.

 the Devs disagree.

Pfft, what would they know?

They only input all the variables. I played her story. If they wanted Shepard to be seen in only one way, they would have made it a linear story, or a movie. The game is what you make of it.

Im referring to the male shepard, the fmeshep is indeed Bi.

But Male Shepards sexuality is not a variable or you would be able to change it.  Its simply fact.

What makes FemShep bisexual then? If she never romances a male and is only attracted to female-looking or female characters (Liara and Kelly, for example), why is she not gay? Or is it beyond the realm of possibility that a woman can not possibly be attracted to men? I suppose that would save a lot of egos. >.> I don't mind if your FemShep, or anyone else's is straight or bi, but no one's going to tell me what sexuality mine is. I shall not be swayed.

Well I guess she can be gay. Really doesnt matter to me since I havent and prolly wont play femshep. As for Manshep,  he has way too much manliness, he gets a woman pregnant just by lookin at em.

He is my mancrush.....doh i think i just made your point!

Haha, I'd claim victory but I think I'd be wrong there. Lets just agree to view our own Mass Effect stories as we want. As long as we enjoy the game, right? :3

[coolair74]

centauri2002 wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Devs can't control how players feel about their characters once it is in the wild. Specifically Shepard is designed to be imprinted with the desires of the player.

Wrong, we define Shepard. Everything else is up to BW to choose. Everything before ME1's intro is set by BW. Canonically, Eartborn Shepard was in a gang, you like it or not. We make choices and choose how Shepard responds to conversations. This isn't The Sims, we can't choose Shepard's ideals or personality (yes, he has a set personality because our choices define us, thety don't make up who we are).

Choices define us, they do not compose who we truly are in the inside. Shepard (canonically) is straight (both genders). Liara is just a monosexual spoof that confuses newbies. You may think that your special Shepard is gay/lesbian (specially lesbian if she is with Liara) but the truth is there for you to see. Accept it at your own discretion, so please don't get mad at me. Get mad at the Developers.

I'll sit back and enjoy as you try to explain Kelly then. :3

He is referriing to ME1 i think. No dumb dumb Kelly

[Pwener2313]

centauri2002 wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Devs can't control how players feel about their characters once it is in the wild. Specifically Shepard is designed to be imprinted with the desires of the player.

Wrong, we define Shepard. Everything else is up to BW to choose. Everything before ME1's intro is set by BW. Canonically, Eartborn Shepard was in a gang, you like it or not. We make choices and choose how Shepard responds to conversations. This isn't The Sims, we can't choose Shepard's ideals or personality (yes, he has a set personality because our choices define us, thety don't make up who we are).

Choices define us, they do not compose who we truly are in the inside. Shepard (canonically) is straight (both genders). Liara is just a monosexual spoof that confuses newbies. You may think that your special Shepard is gay/lesbian (specially lesbian if she is with Liara) but the truth is there for you to see. Accept it at your own discretion, so please don't get mad at me. Get mad at the Developers.

I'll sit back and enjoy as you try to explain Kelly then. :3

Forgot about Kelly. I really don't have an answear for her "romance" if it can be called that.

I guess since Femshep isn't widely known outside of the ME community of players and not the general media, they let her slide with a few under the table...... wait, that came out wrong.

[Naltair]

Liara is designed to appeal to people that like women, if you are attracted to Liara chances are you also probably attracted to women. Stop hiding behind Dev mumbo jumbo she/asari were designed intentionally to be physically appealing to people that are attracted to women.

[coolair74]

Pwener2313 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Devs can't control how players feel about their characters once it is in the wild. Specifically Shepard is designed to be imprinted with the desires of the player.

Wrong, we define Shepard. Everything else is up to BW to choose. Everything before ME1's intro is set by BW. Canonically, Eartborn Shepard was in a gang, you like it or not. We make choices and choose how Shepard responds to conversations. This isn't The Sims, we can't choose Shepard's ideals or personality (yes, he has a set personality because our choices define us, thety don't make up who we are).

Choices define us, they do not compose who we truly are in the inside. Shepard (canonically) is straight (both genders). Liara is just a monosexual spoof that confuses newbies. You may think that your special Shepard is gay/lesbian (specially lesbian if she is with Liara) but the truth is there for you to see. Accept it at your own discretion, so please don't get mad at me. Get mad at the Developers.

I'll sit back and enjoy as you try to explain Kelly then. :3

Forgot about Kelly. I really don't have an answear for her "romance" if it can be called that.

I guess since Femshep isn't widely known outside of the ME community of players and not the general media, they let her slide with a few under the table...... wait, that came out wrong.

She is very easy to explain and was about 14 pages back, teenage boyz, ****** ****** ******....nuff?

[Naltair]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Forgot about Kelly. I really don't have an answear for her "romance" if it can be called that.

I guess since Femshep isn't widely known outside of the ME community of players and not the general media, they let her slide with a few under the table...... wait, that came out wrong.

In this case the exception invalidates your point.

Also my own Shepard is straight, but I don't see a reason why BioWare would claim to control Shepard's oreintation until said otherwise it is whatever the player wants it to be.  It's up to BioWare to offer the options or not.

If they never do, that does not mean Shepard is straight it just means they never had the option.

[coolair74]

Naltair wrote...

Liara is designed to appeal to people that like women, if you are attracted to Liara chances are you also probably attracted to women. Stop hiding behind Dev mumbo jumbo she/asari were designed intentionally to be physically appealing to people that are attracted to women.

Its a sad truth but Lesbians are more accepted than gay men. I am guilty of this dbl standard.

[Naltair]

coolair74 wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Liara is designed to appeal to people that like women, if you are attracted to Liara chances are you also probably attracted to women. Stop hiding behind Dev mumbo jumbo she/asari were designed intentionally to be physically appealing to people that are attracted to women.

Its a sad truth but Lesbians are more accepted than gay men. I am guilty of this dbl standard.

I know that is the point I am trying to make.

[Centauri2002]

Pwener2313 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Devs can't control how players feel about their characters once it is in the wild. Specifically Shepard is designed to be imprinted with the desires of the player.

Wrong, we define Shepard. Everything else is up to BW to choose. Everything before ME1's intro is set by BW. Canonically, Eartborn Shepard was in a gang, you like it or not. We make choices and choose how Shepard responds to conversations. This isn't The Sims, we can't choose Shepard's ideals or personality (yes, he has a set personality because our choices define us, thety don't make up who we are).

Choices define us, they do not compose who we truly are in the inside. Shepard (canonically) is straight (both genders). Liara is just a monosexual spoof that confuses newbies. You may think that your special Shepard is gay/lesbian (specially lesbian if she is with Liara) but the truth is there for you to see. Accept it at your own discretion, so please don't get mad at me. Get mad at the Developers.

I'll sit back and enjoy as you try to explain Kelly then. :3

Forgot about Kelly. I really don't have an answear for her "romance" if it can be called that.

I guess since Femshep isn't widely known outside of the ME community of players and not the general media, they let her slide with a few under the table...... wait, that came out wrong.

Hehe, I'm not sure why anyone would want to romance her anyway. I found her a bit creepy. And that dance... *shudders* >.>

On topic though, I don't think it matters how we see the story. It is personal to the player and shouldn't affect other people. (Unless of course we argue about it constantly. >.>)

[Centauri2002]

Naltair wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Liara is designed to appeal to people that like women, if you are attracted to Liara chances are you also probably attracted to women. Stop hiding behind Dev mumbo jumbo she/asari were designed intentionally to be physically appealing to people that are attracted to women.

Its a sad truth but Lesbians are more accepted than gay men. I am guilty of this dbl standard.

I know that is the point I am trying to make.

I think more accepted is often confused with taken less seriously. They're sexualised and objectified in games. Gay men aren't. I'm not sure which is worse. D:

[Pwener2313]

They could have as easily made a monosexual race of male looking aliens, but women are more accepted to be bi or gay in the media, games, ect.

It's the same with man liking women x women (girl on girl action). It turns us on. But women don't like man x men stuff (I did a survey on this in high school, no female asked liked the idea of two males getting it one).

[Naltair]

centauri2002 wrote...

Hehe, I'm not sure why anyone would want to romance her anyway. I found her a bit creepy. And that dance... *shudders* >.>

On topic though, I don't think it matters how we see the story. It is personal to the player and shouldn't affect other people. (Unless of course we argue about it constantly. >.>)

Exactly.

As for gay/lesbian LIs I am all for it, I am not sure just changing current characters is the answer but if they do it so be it.  I think it's a brute force answer personally and it will never satisfy unless they make everyone equally accessible for every gender which from a narrative perspective is jarring.

[Naltair]

Pwener2313 wrote...

They could have as easily made a monosexual race of male looking aliens, but women are more accepted to be bi or gay in the media, games, ect.

It's the same with man liking women x women (girl on girl action). It turns us on. But women don't like man x men stuff (I did a survey on this in high school, no female asked liked the idea of two males getting it one).

Lesbians don't really do anything for me, personally.

[Naltair]

centauri2002 wrote...
I think more accepted is often confused with taken less seriously. They're sexualised and objectified in games. Gay men aren't. I'm not sure which is worse. D:

This is a related point  that I have brought up many times in this discussion which is also something I find disgusting.

[Centauri2002]

Pwener2313 wrote...

They could have as easily made a monosexual race of male looking aliens, but women are more accepted to be bi or gay in the media, games, ect.

It's the same with man liking women x women (girl on girl action). It turns us on. But women don't like man x men stuff (I did a survey on this in high school, no female asked liked the idea of two males getting it one).

I'd have to disagree with your last statement. You just need to look at the target audience for yaoi. I don't see the appeal but there is a very large fanbase for it out there.

[Pwener2313]

They could make an option in the settings menu that says....


Are you gay?   [YES]   [NO]   [BOTH WAYS]

Modifié par Pwener2313, 22 mars 2011 - 11:52 .

[Centauri2002]

Naltair wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Hehe, I'm not sure why anyone would want to romance her anyway. I found her a bit creepy. And that dance... *shudders* >.>

On topic though, I don't think it matters how we see the story. It is personal to the player and shouldn't affect other people. (Unless of course we argue about it constantly. >.>)

Exactly.

As for gay/lesbian LIs I am all for it, I am not sure just changing current characters is the answer but if they do it so be it.  I think it's a brute force answer personally and it will never satisfy unless they make everyone equally accessible for every gender which from a narrative perspective is jarring.

Aye, we can argue for equality across the board until we're blue in the face (no offence, Liara) but forcing all romance options, etc into a game isn't the answer either. But, if it fits, don't let anything stop you, I say!

[Naltair]

Pwener2313 wrote...

They could make an option in the settings menu that says....


Are you gay?   [YES]   [NO]   [BOTH WAYS]

The elegant solution is to let it play out in game and allow the player to pursue it if they choose without making every character a sex doll for every gender.

[Centauri2002]

Pwener2313 wrote...

They could make an option in the settings menu that says....


Are you gay?   [YES]   [NO]   [BOTH WAYS]

I'd be for that. >.>

[Pwener2313]

centauri2002 wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

They could have as easily made a monosexual race of male looking aliens, but women are more accepted to be bi or gay in the media, games, ect.

It's the same with man liking women x women (girl on girl action). It turns us on. But women don't like man x men stuff (I did a survey on this in high school, no female asked liked the idea of two males getting it one).

I'd have to disagree with your last statement. You just need to look at the target audience for yaoi. I don't see the appeal but there is a very large fanbase for it out there.

It's like the Femshep fanbase. It's there, it's pretty big, but it's not all that well known. Hell, if you had said yaoi to me 3 years ago, I'd say "what's that?".

[Centauri2002]

Pwener2313 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

They could have as easily made a monosexual race of male looking aliens, but women are more accepted to be bi or gay in the media, games, ect.

It's the same with man liking women x women (girl on girl action). It turns us on. But women don't like man x men stuff (I did a survey on this in high school, no female asked liked the idea of two males getting it one).

I'd have to disagree with your last statement. You just need to look at the target audience for yaoi. I don't see the appeal but there is a very large fanbase for it out there.

It's like the Femshep fanbase. It's there, it's pretty big, but it's not all that well known. Hell, if you had said yaoi to me 3 years ago, I'd say "what's that?".

I wish I was still oblivious. >.> But, I don't think the desire for equality in various areas is an unknown anymore. There are very vocal portions of the community. So ignorance is no excuse here. 

Modifié par centauri2002, 22 mars 2011 - 11:57 .