1677 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

Why would anything happening/not happening in Dragon Age 2 cause any concern for Mass Effect 3? If there's one thing I've learned from playing Dragon Age 2, it's that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Sure, DA2 used a few technical innovations from Mass Effect, but the games couldn't be more different. They're apples and oranges. Obviously somebody higher up the food chain told the Dragon Age people to put some Mass Effect conversation stuff in DA2, but beyond that, I don't think the two teams even talk to each other at the company picnic.

For my part, I wouldn't care if an existing LI character was 'suddenly' bisexual (not how that works, by the way), but it wouldn't be any more jarring than ME2 suddenly being The Tali Show. Seriously, there was NOTHING in the first game that gave me any hint of cross-species interest on the part of quarians and turians, so the fact that she's now wanting to hit that with Shepard (in spite of her immune deficiency and all entails) was clearly incorporated to satisfy a 'niche' audience. So there's a precedent for including content to satisfy a portion of the consumer base, even if they have to expand the narrative to do it. And even if the rest of us are 'forced' to have it in our games.

That said though, I'm really disappointed in the young kids in this thread and their macho posturing. If you're that weirded out by Gay Homosexuals, then you are, in fact, homophobic. Deal with it. Or don't, I don't care. I think homophobia is despicable, but I'm sure no one cares what I think. [Note to haters: Let it be known that rebuttals along the lines of "you're right, no one cares what you think" are shockingly unoriginal and unimaginative. Stretch yourself, use your creativity.]

I hope BioWare includes some type of same-sex romance content in the next game for those who want it, I think it's really a shame that people who want to roleplay as a gay or bisexual Shepard don't have the options that players who only roleplay heterosexual characters have. Do they have to implement this with existing LI characters? No, new characters would be fine. Anything would be an improvement, the current state of affairs is a blemish on an otherwise stellar game.

[Naltair]

If there is any type of same sex romance that needs love it is male Shepard since female Shepard already has Liara and Kelly.

Modifié par Naltair, 22 mars 2011 - 03:54 .

[coolair74]

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

When you consider that all of the information we have on these characters comes from Bioware you begin to realize that they can change anything they want and just call "handwavium" and we will still buy it.

I have to take a stance in opposition to the OP. I DO feel they should offer same-sex romances. You can choose not to romance those characters if you don't want to experience that. Hell, if it offends you, don't pick up the game. However, claiming that not adding same-sex romances because of a hyper-demographic can be turned on it's head, and you can call the "anti-same-sex LI" folk a hyper-demographic also.

Way I see, simply in the interest of fairness it should be included, and if that's bothers you, there are a ton of other games sitting on that shelf at the game store...pick one of them up.

I think you're missing the point that if it's done to characters who already exist as "straight" it'll break the character for most of us.  The OP is not opposed to "new" characters with same sex LI's.

And if that offends you, you don't have to pick up the game. 

At the danger of squandering my morning ME2 time, I'll bite.

If I saw more straight people standing in line at Game Stop ****ing about how the same sex romances in Bioware games sickens them I might think that including them would be more offensive to a larger audience.  

As it is, I find that the hardcore anti-gay lobby is just as vociferous as the hardcore pro-gay lobby.  A happy balance is giving everyone what they want, and then asking people who don't care for it to make the personal choice to abstain from partaking. 

You have missed the point entirely and you keep missing the point.  Its not about any Gay/Bi LI, its about NOT changing our beloved shipmates to pander to a small demographic.  Most people are not opposed to Gay/bi LI's, but Garrus all the sudden wanting mansex is just gonna ****** ppl off.

The problem is you cant give everyone what they want, but you can please most ppl.  But as stated before, if Garrus or Grunt  suddenly start looking at my buttocks , im out , cya Bioware.

This assumes an "all or none" approach.  If bisexuality would be contrary to a characters backstory or personality it wouldn't have to be applied, however, as I said in my first post, considering that all of this information is from Bioware and has big holes in it on purpose (so they can fill them as they see fit) you could write anything into a characters backstory and if done well enough wouldn't be terrible.  Hell, for all we know Jack is a terrorist who bombs school buildings full of children, and writing that into her story could be done....same thing for bisexuality, just with a few more prerequisites.  

I guess I should mention that having bisexual LIs in ME3 isn't a make or break deal for me, I'll play it either way, but for some it might, and I argue those people could be addressed without all the fusss people seem to think it would cause.  Then again, thats just my unique perspective.  

Its not even about that, i think after a few years with Shepard, they would have told him if they were into manlove.

Its time to stop thinking about being PC and more about keeping a cohesive storyline. 

[coolair74]

Naltair wrote...

If there is any type of same sex romance that needs love it is male Shepard since female Shepard already has Liara and Kelly.

Sure but make a DLC and allow me not to install it.

I swear to jeebus the first dude that makes a pass at Alex P Keaton Shepard is gonna get a mouth full of mah fist!

[Ramirez Wolfen]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

1. It cheapens the romances.
2. The romances lose their uniqueness (kind of like 1, but whatever)
3. It's unrealistic. Not everyone in life is bisexual. (it's a game, sure, but ME should be one of the realistic kind)
4. If it happened, there would be arguments over whether Manshep or Femshep is better with x character.
5. DA2 tried this, but if you ask me, it didn't feel as good as the ME romances.
6. It's a bit late to make them bi in ME3. ME1 was released in 2007 or something. If they were going to be bi, it should have been then.
7. Wouldn't it be awkward if the LIs were just suddenly bi? It would seem like it was done just to appease people (which is LAME)

1. Can you claify how it cheapens the romance?
2. Again, can you expand upon why they loose uniqueness?
3. Its a videogame, so why are you complaining about realism? Shepard fell into a space vacum, splatted on a planet, recovered and brought back to life. That isn't realistic either. Nor is the manipulation of Dark Energy for Biotics.
4. What?
5. That is your opinion, and in my opinion, the DA2 romances (straight or bi) were more fleshed out than ME2's. They felt more like a relationship and less like a upcoming fling sex scene.
6. You have a point.....
7. True, but Garrus and Tali were made romances to appease people as well and that was only met with much praise. Not to mention, I see that you have Tali as your Avatar and a Shepard/Tali romance themed sig. So that proves that you support Bioware's reason to do a "Fan Service" gesture to appease people. You obviously seem fine with that so how come Bioware can't do it for people who want Bi LIs?


And finally, how does a Bi or Gay romance effect you in any way? I wasn't too big on Bioware making Garrus and Tali romance options, but in the game, I did not romance them as I wasn't forced to. So if Ashley, Kaiden, Miranda, Jacob etc....become Bi options in ME3, just don't persue a Bi option with them. I plan on doing a Male Hawke playthrough in Dragon Age 2 in which he'll romance Isabella, so I'll just ignore the Fenris/Anders "romance" options/conversations and keep it straight on a "bro" relationship like my male Shepard had with Jacob and Kaiden.

1. It's actually more or less 2, now that I think about it.
2. How do they stop being unique? By being just open to everything (I'm not the best at explaining that)
3. I like my games with at least a SLIVER of realism.
4. There has been arguments over things like this before.
5. Yes it is my opinion, I didn't say it was otherwise.
7.  Why Bioware can't do it for folks who want Bi LIs? Simple:

It's too late and it ruins the character (if you ask me)

It effects me only if the character wasn't bi or gay from the start and just suddenly chooses to be that way. Otherwise, I don't care.

[Sandbox47]

What? You of all people Wolfy should understand the awesomeness of bi! I mean, I see the problem with that in ME's case, seeing how the characters are already made what they are, but still - don't move away from the option.

EDIT: Naw, yeah. Nyoka's right. If you play with FemShep through 1 and 2 and get to three then you have played all three games with FemShep. The same one. It's not like all your characters are taken into consideration for the LIs, just for the one you are at the time. So it wouldn't really be changing, just you character growing on them.

Modifié par Sandbox47, 22 mars 2011 - 04:05 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Siansonea II wrote...

Why would anything happening/not happening in Dragon Age 2 cause any concern for Mass Effect 3? If there's one thing I've learned from playing Dragon Age 2, it's that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Sure, DA2 used a few technical innovations from Mass Effect, but the games couldn't be more different. They're apples and oranges. Obviously somebody higher up the food chain told the Dragon Age people to put some Mass Effect conversation stuff in DA2, but beyond that, I don't think the two teams even talk to each other at the company picnic.

For my part, I wouldn't care if an existing LI character was 'suddenly' bisexual (not how that works, by the way), but it wouldn't be any more jarring than ME2 suddenly being The Tali Show. Seriously, there was NOTHING in the first game that gave me any hint of cross-species interest on the part of quarians and turians, so the fact that she's now wanting to hit that with Shepard (in spite of her immune deficiency and all entails) was clearly incorporated to satisfy a 'niche' audience. So there's a precedent for including content to satisfy a portion of the consumer base, even if they have to expand the narrative to do it. And even if the rest of us are 'forced' to have it in our games.

That said though, I'm really disappointed in the young kids in this thread and their macho posturing. If you're that weirded out by Gay Homosexuals, then you are, in fact, homophobic. Deal with it. Or don't, I don't care. I think homophobia is despicable, but I'm sure no one cares what I think. [Note to haters: Let it be known that rebuttals along the lines of "you're right, no one cares what you think" are shockingly unoriginal and unimaginative. Stretch yourself, use your creativity.]

I hope BioWare includes some type of same-sex romance content in the next game for those who want it, I think it's really a shame that people who want to roleplay as a gay or bisexual Shepard don't have the options that players who only roleplay heterosexual characters have. Do they have to implement this with existing LI characters? No, new characters would be fine. Anything would be an improvement, the current state of affairs is a blemish on an otherwise stellar game.

I love how Tali is brought into this....

And I'm not homophobic. It isn't really a blemish, either.

[Naltair]

Nyoka wrote...

About "let's not change the characters".

As far as I know, same sex relationships were not even allowed in ME1&2. Shepard never started a conversation that could lead to a romance. Not one character is explicitly heterosexual, nor did they reject a possible relationship. The subject isn't contemplated at all. Is this true?

If they had rejected a certain kind of relationship and then they accept it in ME3, that would be changing the characters in a contradictory way. But if they said absolutely nothing about it in the first place, that's not changing anything, it's adding something. No contradiction.

Negative, Liara, for all the board posturing, is obviously a female + female romance.

I don't care if she is an alien she looks exactly like a female human.

Modifié par Naltair, 22 mars 2011 - 04:02 .

[Elite Midget]

Almostfaceman wrote...

I know you're a troll but I'll goof around with you since you obviously need internet lovin'.

Point out specific dialogue or actions that led you to believe that Tali was "bisexual".  Good luck, btw, since there isn't any dialogue that tells us anything about her sexuality.

I'm a troll because I don't believe what you say and I'm don't hate the idea of them being bisexual? If you want to find a real troll than you should look into the mirror. I'm sure you'll find exactly what you're looking for.

Also, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that Tali was bisexual in ME1 however in ME2 she heavily hints that she has an attraction o Female Shepard but Bioware didn't pursue it in the end.

Now you need to stop labelling others as trolls just because we don't hate Bisexuals like you apparantly do because in your eyes making LIs bisexual must mean that the game is ruined.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 22 mars 2011 - 04:05 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Sandbox47 wrote...

What? You of all people Wolfy should understand the awesomeness of bi! I mean, I see the problem with that in ME's case, seeing how the characters are already made what they are, but still - don't move away from the option.

If this was ME1 we were talking about, I would be okay with it, because it was the first game. Actually, I made a thread about characters being gay  FROM THE START a while ago (it's in my profile). I'm all for gay rights, but I don't want things (like this) instantly changed in a way that just seems awkward.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Nyoka wrote...

About "let's not change the characters".

As far as I know, same sex relationships were not even allowed in ME1&2. Shepard never started a conversation that could lead to a romance. Not one character is explicitly heterosexual, nor did they reject a possible relationship. The subject isn't contemplated at all. Is this true?

If they had rejected a certain kind of relationship and then they accept it in ME3, that would be changing the characters in a contradictory way. But if they said absolutely nothing about it in the first place, that's not changing anything, it's adding something. They never talked about it; might as well start talking about it now. No contradiction.

Jack rejected Femshep.

[jeweledleah]

@ Nyoka - its called subjective sexuality and they did that in DA2 (as far as I know - Sky is bi, not gay for male players, because his backstory doesn't change ...unlike in DA2 implementation). I'm not a fan of subjective sexuality, personally, I like my characters to be consistent regardless of the player character gender. I won't break if I find out that the guy my heroine is pining for likes guys as well as gals, on a grand scheme of things and in context of current relationship - it doesn't matter. it feels more honest if the characters are consistent regardless of the player. however, the way it was implemented in DA2 changes a bit more then just character's preferences. and that's just a tip of the iceberg.

you can reason that any character, absolutely any one, including someone like Jack who outright tells you she doesn't swing that way - can be reasoned into being anything you want them to be. for some characters it will be more awkward then others, and it will definitely require a fair bit of suspension of disbelief as well as some remoulding of the characters, but it can be done. (hell, I've done it myself in a conversation with fanfic writer)

I just don't think it should be done, not on a level of canon changes. especially subjective canon changes.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 22 mars 2011 - 04:08 .

[Sandbox47]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Sandbox47 wrote...

What? You of all people Wolfy should understand the awesomeness of bi! I mean, I see the problem with that in ME's case, seeing how the characters are already made what they are, but still - don't move away from the option.

If this was ME1 we were talking about, I would be okay with it, because it was the first game. Actually, I made a thread about characters being gay  FROM THE START a while ago (it's in my profile). I'm all for gay rights, but I don't want things (like this) instantly changed in a way that just seems awkward.

I know, I got. But check out Nyoka's reasoning. It makes sense because we're just blowing the ME universe out of proportion with many chars while for one LI there's just the one character to "maybe" romance. In every playthrough.

[Elite Midget]

It doesn't change anything.

Garrus was your bro in ME1 and ME2 yet in ME3 he starts feeling a bit differently after cnstantly serving as a Male Shepard's must trusted friend and ally. The Male Shepard sees this and pushes things and suddenly Garrus breaks down because he doesn't understand these feelings since they're both Men. Which in turn leads to them kissing and so forth.

See, there. Garrus has the potiential to be Bi now without running his character.

Just like how Tali had a mild attraction in ME1 that can blown into a romance in ME2.

[Destroy Raiden_]

The only person who say they tried being bi was Jack and she said she didn't enjoy it that much beyond her it is destroying the characters if we've gone through ME and ME2 with them and they haven't even suggested they went that way. Sure people will quote all the hidden files but what officially made it into the game is no one was bi or had any interest sexually in same sexed shep.

It's really strange and character ruining for Joker to suddenly want fshep just as it would be really weird and out of character for Garrus to want Mshep

I don't care if BW wants to make a brand new ME3 character who is bi or only likes their same sex shep I could bat off one strange hit on like I did with Jack having multiple offers on my same sexed shep would pretty much make me think twice on a replay of the game like FO4 is.

Most people point to Zevran as being a neat bi character I thought he was strange on the basis that he tries to kill you and then wants to date you him being bi wasn't any concern compared to his odd mental state when it comes to dating. Seriously how do you go from trying to kill someone to wanting to do them and not be a stalker? Just in ME3 don't have the new guy try one of these killing shep then wanting to be his/her boy/girlfriend is just too weird.

[Naltair]

I didn't say anything about the other choices I was just saying that a same sex relationship already exists in the game, actually two choices but only for the female gender.

There needs to be parity for a male choice. Create a new character in ME3, would be my suggestion. Someone designed to be gay or at least bisexual.

[JamieCOTC]

1. It's not going to happen.
2. It was cheaper for DA2 to do all bi romances according to David Gaider. Probably a factor on why they did it considering the game itself. (Not a major factor, mind you, but still a factor).
3. Tali might come across as bi for femShep as in ME2, but only because of BW laziness, not because she is bi.
4. femShep will still be gay for Liara ... or not, depending on your comfort zone.
5. It's not going to happen.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 22 mars 2011 - 04:12 .

[Elite Midget]

Still don't see why Jack would reject Femshepard when in another conversation she's mentioned that she's been with women and men for pleasure and attachment in the past. Hell, they even should have given Femshep an option to have a short one night stand with Jack if Femshep if they wanna take advantage of her.

Jack being Bi isn't a question but a fact. She does it both ways... Unless you're FemShepard than you're not allowed to pursue it because Bioware said so. Bi for all other women but FemShepard.

[ReiSilver]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

1. It cheapens the romances.
2. The romances lose their uniqueness (kind of like 1, but whatever)
3. It's unrealistic. Not everyone in life is bisexual. (it's a game, sure, but ME should be one of the realistic kind)
4. If it happened, there would be arguments over whether Manshep or Femshep is better with x character.
5. DA2 tried this, but if you ask me, it didn't feel as good as the ME romances.
6. It's a bit late to make them bi in ME3. ME1 was released in 2007 or something. If they were going to be bi, it should have been then.
7. Wouldn't it be awkward if the LIs were just suddenly bi? It would seem like it was done just to appease people (which is LAME)

1. Can you claify how it cheapens the romance?
2. Again, can you expand upon why they loose uniqueness?
3. Its a videogame, so why are you complaining about realism? Shepard fell into a space vacum, splatted on a planet, recovered and brought back to life. That isn't realistic either. Nor is the manipulation of Dark Energy for Biotics.
4. What?
5. That is your opinion, and in my opinion, the DA2 romances (straight or bi) were more fleshed out than ME2's. They felt more like a relationship and less like a upcoming fling sex scene.
6. You have a point.....
7. True, but Garrus and Tali were made romances to appease people as well and that was only met with much praise. Not to mention, I see that you have Tali as your Avatar and a Shepard/Tali romance themed sig. So that proves that you support Bioware's reason to do a "Fan Service" gesture to appease people. You obviously seem fine with that so how come Bioware can't do it for people who want Bi LIs?


And finally, how does a Bi or Gay romance effect you in any way? I wasn't too big on Bioware making Garrus and Tali romance options, but in the game, I did not romance them as I wasn't forced to. So if Ashley, Kaiden, Miranda, Jacob etc....become Bi options in ME3, just don't persue a Bi option with them. I plan on doing a Male Hawke playthrough in Dragon Age 2 in which he'll romance Isabella, so I'll just ignore the Fenris/Anders "romance" options/conversations and keep it straight on a "bro" relationship like my male Shepard had with Jacob and Kaiden.

1. It's actually more or less 2, now that I think about it.
2. How do they stop being unique? By being just open to everything (I'm not the best at explaining that)
3. I like my games with at least a SLIVER of realism.
4. There has been arguments over things like this before.
5. Yes it is my opinion, I didn't say it was otherwise.
7.  Why Bioware can't do it for folks who want Bi LIs? Simple:

It's too late and it ruins the character (if you ask me)

It effects me only if the character wasn't bi or gay from the start and just suddenly chooses to be that way. Otherwise, I don't care.

It didn't stop them making Tali suddenly interested in aliens out of the blue in ME2, but she's not bi so CRISIS AVERTED! CHARACTER TOTALLY NOT CHEAPENED but if she had been interested in female shepard then whoa there, how unrelaistic, STOP THE FUN BUS.

It irritates me when people complain that a character being bisexual cheapens the all important straight romance. You can't enjoy your pie knowing someone else also enjoys it? It's like saying a character shouldn't be interested in Renegade Shepard because they were totally into my paragon! How can they like a renegade? So unrealistic!<_<

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Elite Midget wrote...

It doesn't change anything.

Garrus was your bro in ME1 and ME2 yet in ME3 he starts feeling a bit differently after cnstantly serving as a Male Shepard's must trusted friend and ally. The Male Shepard sees this and pushes things and suddenly Garrus breaks down because he doesn't understand these feelings since they're both Men. Which in turn leads to them kissing and so forth.

See, there. Garrus has the potiential to be Bi now without running his character.

Just like how Tali had a mild attraction in ME1 that can blown into a romance in ME2.

Most people see Garrus as straight. I think it would change (or ruin) some people's view of Garrus, mine included, because I just don't see him as gay and him being gay would be awkward.

[Fiery Phoenix]

All I know is that I don't want every single one of them to be bisexual. One or two would be fine by me, but not all.

[Naltair]

Elite Midget wrote...

Still don't see why Jack would reject Femshepard when in another conversation she's mentioned that she's been with women and men for pleasure and attachment in the past. Hell, they even should have given Femshep an option to have a short one night stand with Jack if Femshep if they wanna take advantage of her.

Jack being Bi isn't a question but a fact. She does it both ways... Unless you're FemShepard than you're not allowed to pursue it because Bioware said so. Bi for all other women but FemShepard.

Maybe she just didn't want to?  Maybe it was a wild night?  Maybe she was a party lesbian, where she makes out with chicks at parties or friends but ultimately feels heterosexual at the end of the day?  If every girl that kisses another girl at a party is a lesbian or bisexual, then heterosexual women would be a minority.   Obviously that isn't the case.

Jack rejecting female Shepard is perfectly fine, she may just not be into girls unless it's party time.

[Elite Midget]

People are naturally hypocrites. It's only natural that they would desire what 'they' want and don't want anything that would 'ruin' said desire in their eyes.

In this case if there's an option for these Squaddies to Bisexual than obviously to some it means ME3 is ruined because who these characters can bone is somehow important to the plot of ME3.

That doesn't change the fact that Jack is Bi and the only thing stopping a romance is because Bioware said so. Jack is just like Ashley in that matter in that they were supposed to be Bi but a decision was made to just make them straight. In Jack's case they forgot to remove the part where she says that she's been with women.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 22 mars 2011 - 04:19 .