1677 réponses à ce sujet

[coolair74]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Quole wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Plotwise, DA2 seems to beat out ME2 by a long way. I'm not sure about gameplay yet, though.

 How far are you in the game? I ask this because to me it felt like DA2 had no story. Sure ME2 had a weak, irrelevent story compared to the first one, but at least it was coherent throughout the game. DA2 felt like I was just doing random stuff for no reason the entire time.

I beat DA2. Then I took it back to Gamestop for refund (which I didn't get, I only got like $20 for it)

DA2 was a trainwreck, empty plot and crappy writing, was vry rushed. Hooray for the mighty dollar

[Ramirez Wolfen]

coolair74 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Quole wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Plotwise, DA2 seems to beat out ME2 by a long way. I'm not sure about gameplay yet, though.

 How far are you in the game? I ask this because to me it felt like DA2 had no story. Sure ME2 had a weak, irrelevent story compared to the first one, but at least it was coherent throughout the game. DA2 felt like I was just doing random stuff for no reason the entire time.

I beat DA2. Then I took it back to Gamestop for refund (which I didn't get, I only got like $20 for it)

DA2 was a trainwreck, empty plot and crappy writing, was vry rushed. Hooray for the mighty dollar

And the romances weren't really good either. So I hope Bioware will NOT go that way with ME3, and just keep everyone as is.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

DA2's bi romances didn't seem to work out well (my opinion), so I hope the ME team takes that as a reason NOT to make everyone bi. And like I said, NEW characters being bi are fine for me.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Also, No one is saying that there should be NO bi LIs, it's just that there shouldn't be any changing to any pre-existing character.

[ADLegend21]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

LI's should be shepard sexual. where they all have a thing for the player. Problem solved.

Only when BioWare writes friendship arcs.

hahahaha I'd love to see that.

[MisterDyslexo]

Well I'd like some LGB romances, but I ain't up for the whole "bisexualization" process of every character. I'd like to point out a difference between Leliana and Zevran in Dragon Age: Origins. Leliana basically does nothing to acknowledge that the relationship is a same-sex one. However, Zevran brings it up about once or twice. Now, if they built on this, and gave the Female-Warden and Male-Warden romance different dynamics, it would've been really good imo. I mean some people are just bisexual, and bisexualizing everybody is sorta cheap, but from my understanding of DA:2 (haven't played it yet) there are no distinctions between all the romances, no rather the gender of your Hawke. I mean, yes, some people are just bisexual, but 6?? I'd say two is stretching it, and that for three, you'd probably have to actually have a fairly different romance between the two, depending on gender. I mean, lets say we took Thane right now, and made him bisexual. He was married to his wife (WOMAN) so you'd actually have a lot of room to make the romance between MaleShep and FemaleShep different and unique. However characters with no real interesting sexual background or history that could affect the romance, lets say Tali, Jacob, and Garrus, would probably be cheapened by a bisexualization. Now some characters, I could see this working for:
Jack- We already know her story. "Girls club" comment can be interpreted many ways. However, her survivor's guilt about fact her ex that she basically killed, and wanted to live together forever as lovers, was indeed male, could be considered as an aspect of her. She appears to be bisexual, but that could have really affected her in some way (or not, I don't claim to be a psychologist)
Miranda- She has a past with men, relieving herself sexually, but I believe it all relates to her want to be a mother. She's sterile, however, so this could have a dynamic change between the MaleShep and FemShep relationship. With FemShep, sterile or not, there obviously isn't going to be a baby made, but with MaleShep, if she were fertile, she could become pregnant. So that could be part of her mindset behind the whole relationship.
Kaidan- H know a lot of people see him as a potential bi character, for many reasons. He seems like the guy you could have MaleShep say "Why didn't you tell me about this before.", and would come back "You never asked." He has his BAaT experience with the girl Rhana that could be developed, along with the fact that he quite frankly, was in boot camp, at a relatively young age, where masculinity is the law, and gay=femininity (or at least so society holds to be), so I could see something there.

Point being, don't make them bisexual just to do it. Make them bisexual because it opens up the character, makes them unique to each separate romance between FemShep and MaleShep.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Elite Midget wrote...

I didn't want Tali to suddenly turn into a Shepard Fangirl.

Look what happened!

Either you deal with it or you stop buying Bioware games because LIs that could go eitherway in DA2 was cheap, effective, and very popular. Since this is Bioware they will take what they learn and apply it to future titles if they haven't already done so already.

Your incessant spewing of your opinion as fact knows no bounds does it? Either provide evidence or your claim rings hollow. DA2 has not been successful in comparison to either its predecessor nor the Mass Effect series. It has yet to reach half the sales of either. Would I cite the bi relationships a failure? Not at all. That does not equate to BioWare abruptly deciding all romance subplots will be handled in a similar capacity.

Furthermore, your theory is inaccurate. Presume everyone in ME2 was bisexual. Their dialogue would be virtually identical whilst Meer and Hale would have to record additional lines respectively. BioWare would then have to render animations and CGI for each Shepard for three more romances. So in actuality, the cost would be more to handle in this manner, not less.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 23 mars 2011 - 05:27 .

[AlexMBrennan]

This thread is still hilarious. However, ManlyManlyMan!troll and TalksToSelf!troll (edit post ftw) are getting a bit old.

[Mithran88]

lol It's been some time since I've checked these forums, still same old same old I see

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I think it is right for Asari to be bi. And LI's can be bi ONLY if it suits with their character.

But I don't think that saying that everyone should be straight is right. There is a fanbase for bisexual romances out there, and Bioware will appeal to them. Especially seeming though it doesn't (or shouldn't) affect those who pursue straight relationships.

As it happens, I think that the only people who didn't suit the bisexual romances in DA2 were Aveline and (less so) Anders. Because they all pretty much suited it, I was fine with it. I would never put it down for a reason why DA2 'didn't do so well.'

I'm actually thoroughly enjoying DA2!

[Mithran88]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I think it is right for Asari to be bi. And LI's can be bi ONLY if it suits with their character.

But I don't think that saying that everyone should be straight is right. There is a fanbase for bisexual romances out there, and Bioware will appeal to them. Especially seeming though it doesn't (or shouldn't) affect those who pursue straight relationships.

As it happens, I think that the only people who didn't suit the bisexual romances in DA2 were Aveline and (less so) Anders. Because they all pretty much suited it, I was fine with it. I would never put it down for a reason why DA2 'didn't do so well.'

I'm actually thoroughly enjoying DA2!

Would agree pertaining to Asari and LI. 

[Coach]

coolair74 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

I agree with the notion that, if a MaleShep were bisexual, he probably should've been bisexual since the beginning.

Aside from that, I really have no opinion on the matter.

I think that is the main point, dudeshep is clearly straight , he bags babes, that is all.

This thread seems to be filled with a good number of posters who don't understand the difference between bisexuality and homosexuality. I think your intentions for maintaining story continuity are fine, but your logic is flawed when it comes to bisexual romance. Still, I'd love to hear a reasonable response to what I posted earlier. I looked through this thread, but could not find one. Perhaps you should have stated you did not want "pre-established characters" to go from "straight to gay" (that way the argument is only slightly flawed and not utterly flawed). Using the term "bi" embodies a separate notion all together.

After all, I agree that changing a character's sexuality is a dumb idea (especially if it ret-cons the story). But if you think "changing" a character is the same as a bisexual character "showing interest" in a person of the opposite sex... you're sadly mistaken. So if it's not too much to ask, please stop throwing around the term "bisexual" as if it were the same thing as "homosexual." This is 2011, people. We haz dictionaries 'n' stuff.

[Lee337]

Coach Jon wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

I agree with the notion that, if a MaleShep were bisexual, he probably should've been bisexual since the beginning.

Aside from that, I really have no opinion on the matter.

I think that is the main point, dudeshep is clearly straight , he bags babes, that is all.

This thread seems to be filled with a good number of posters who don't understand the difference between bisexuality and homosexuality. I think your intentions for maintaining story continuity are fine, but your logic is flawed when it comes to bisexual romance. Still, I'd love to hear a reasonable response to what I posted earlier. I looked through this thread, but could not find one. Perhaps you should have stated you did not want "pre-established characters" to go from "straight to gay" (that way the argument is only slightly flawed and not utterly flawed). Using the term "bi" embodies a separate notion all together.

After all, I agree that changing a character's sexuality is a dumb idea (especially if it ret-cons the story). But if you think "changing" a character is the same as a bisexual character "showing interest" in a person of the opposite sex... you're sadly mistaken. So if it's not too much to ask, please stop throwing around the term "bisexual" as if it were the same thing as "homosexual." This is 2011, people. We haz dictionaries 'n' stuff.

I read the whole thread and did not find one mistaken use of bisexual. The whole thread is about wanting the characters to like both sexes. So what the hell?

[mopotter]

Quole wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Plotwise, DA2 seems to beat out ME2 by a long way. I'm not sure about gameplay yet, though.

 How far are you in the game? I ask this because to me it felt like DA2 had no story. Sure ME2 had a weak, irrelevent story compared to the first one, but at least it was coherent throughout the game. DA2 felt like I was just doing random stuff for no reason the entire time.

I finished it.  The first and second acts were very good but  for me it fell apart in the last chapter for a number of reasons,  ME2 story wise was consistant for me, just would have liked a bit more emphasis on the larger issue not the loyality mission for everyone.  A few loyalty missions and somthing  involving the collectors, actually saving some of the colonist would have been nice but it's ok.  

On topic - Having all LI as options for either of my characters whether I was playing a male or a female, left me feeling shortchanged.  It feels like a short cut, not having to do that much work to fill out separate characters with destinctive backgrounds, just change a word or two so that the same romance can be used for everyone.  

For me it cuts own the game experience I'm going to have becuase I  won't romance one of the guys as a male if he does not indicate to my female character that he's had a m/m relationship somewhere in his past.  Like Zev. 
I did that with Sky in JE and it pretty much ruined my female romance option becuase I'm human and once I played as a male and romanced Sky I couldn't see him the same way.  

But the main reason I dislike the idea of changing existing characters is exactly that - they are allready exhisting characters with specific backgrounds and no history of a same sex romance.  

[mopotter]

[quote]coolair74 wrote...

[quote]Ice Cold J wrote...

I agree with the notion that, if a MaleShep were bisexual, he probably should've been bisexual since the beginning.

Aside from that, I really have no opinion on the matter. [/quote]


I think that is the main point, dudeshep is clearly straight , he bags babes, that is all.[/quote

Sorry, this is silly.  :)  He bags babes becuase they didn't give him any other option.  I've got a male Shepard, and a female Shepard who didn't have any romance in ME1 or 2.  In ME3 if there was a new option, not Kaidan, or any of the group from ME2, Benjamin might be interested.  

[Sandbox47]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Also, No one is saying that there should be NO bi LIs, it's just that there shouldn't be any changing to any pre-existing character.

Say that you play ManShep and romance Ash/Liara in ME1 and then Liara/Jack/Miranda/Tali in ME2 then the only one who would be changing their secuality would be Mordin by actually getting a sexuality. No one else will change because you simply do not discuss it with any of the others. It might come as a surprise to you or the LI, but it won't be changing. So keep Morind salarian and the rest Bi. It will work.

[mopotter]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I think it is right for Asari to be bi. And LI's can be bi ONLY if it suits with their character.

But I don't think that saying that everyone should be straight is right. There is a fanbase for bisexual romances out there, and Bioware will appeal to them. Especially seeming though it doesn't (or shouldn't) affect those who pursue straight relationships.

As it happens, I think that the only people who didn't suit the bisexual romances in DA2 were Aveline and (less so) Anders. Because they all pretty much suited it, I was fine with it. I would never put it down for a reason why DA2 'didn't do so well.'

I'm actually thoroughly enjoying DA2!

The do need bisexual romances, but they need to be new characters who do not have a history in previous games.  They should not be added to exhisting characters just because new people will be buying ME3 who have not played ME1 or 2.  

I like Aveline, but you can't really romance her, just flirt with her.  DA2 is fun.  But I'm still playing ME1 and 2, and I'm not sure I'll still be playing DA2 next year.

[mopotter]

Sandbox47 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Also, No one is saying that there should be NO bi LIs, it's just that there shouldn't be any changing to any pre-existing character.

Say that you play ManShep and romance Ash/Liara in ME1 and then Liara/Jack/Miranda/Tali in ME2 then the only one who would be changing their secuality would be Mordin by actually getting a sexuality. No one else will change because you simply do not discuss it with any of the others. It might come as a surprise to you or the LI, but it won't be changing. So keep Morind salarian and the rest Bi. It will work.

And agin, I would dislike this a lot.   They would be changing the character's consistancy from one game to another.  I want the Jack I play as female Shepard to be the same Jack I play as male Shepard.  I don't want to play in alternate universes where one Jack is attracted to guys and one is atrtracted to women.  

I the player, will know that in ME2 or 1 a character was straight.  Changing them in ME3 just becuase they can or just to try and cut corners to make some people happy or even worse, just to do it because there will be new players who have never played ME1 or ME2, will cause other people to be unhappy. 

If they want to bring same sex romances into ME3, which I think is a good idea, they need to bring new characters in who have this sexual interest in their background.  

Maybe if I only played one sex, or if I only played one game it wouldn't matter.  But I play multiple games with different Shepards and I want the characters all my Shepards interact with to be consistant.    

[J. Finley]

^ Couldn't have said it better myself.

I know it seems weird to some people but making changes like this really does make a big difference to others, however subtle it may be. Don't switch characters around all of a sudden, it would kill their believability.

Modifié par Jayman1337, 23 mars 2011 - 12:18 .

[Sajuro]

Mopotter
Actually Jack has stated in ME2 that she is bisexual.

[Lee337]

It's crazy that you talk about equality and choice. If thats the case, I want my characters to suddenly all turn English. So far they all sound American. Equal rights!!! Also I want them to all have an interest in juggling. I want all my team to talk about nothing else. I can't belive bioware are so jugglist. Also, why is everyone so slim and well built! PREJUDICE!! I want my team to start eating obscene amounts.

Like it or not bisexual people are in the minority, and to find a whole crew of bisexual team mates would be bizarre especially in a miltary operation. I'm fine with a new team mate being bi or gay but not the whole team.

[Centauri2002]

Lee337 wrote...

It's crazy that you talk about equality and choice. If thats the case, I want my characters to suddenly all turn English. So far they all sound American. Equal rights!!! Also I want them to all have an interest in juggling. I want all my team to talk about nothing else. I can't belive bioware are so jugglist. Also, why is everyone so slim and well built! PREJUDICE!! I want my team to start eating obscene amounts.

Like it or not bisexual people are in the minority, and to find a whole crew of bisexual team mates would be bizarre especially in a miltary operation. I'm fine with a new team mate being bi or gay but not the whole team.

I don't think anyone's asked for an entire team of bisexuals. I think most supporters for varied romance options would be happy with just one gay character of each gender, or bisexual if it's really that difficult to envisage such a limitation. Also, the issue was about romance, not about the skills the squadies possessed so juggling's not a very good parallel, is it? Of course, the matter of perceived beauty (i.e, the size and weight of an individual) is another matter entirely, and I'm sure it's been discussed elsewhere. >.>

The original point was about altering (or perceived alteration) already established characters, which it seems most people are against. 

[Heldenbrand]

The bisexual romance option does not bother me. It's easy to ignore it, except if characters were abruptly ret-conned simply to make it available. Liara is obviously a character in which sexual preference doesn't matter and it has never bothered me, but I don't want it to become an issue which impacts how a character acts and behaves.

Given that very likely, the teammates of Dragon Age 2 even brought this subject up, Fenris and Anders all felt particularly effeminate to me, be it by character design or by story. More frustrating was not that the option was available, but in one particular dialogue sequence with Anders it is unavoidable and even prompts a negative consequence if you reject his advances. This coming directly after he'd just lost a lover and my character was consoling him. Even Isabela, perhaps the most notable sexually active character, does not have this sort of mandated choice. The option certainly does not bother me, but being forced into a sequence that either would make other players uncomfortable due to social or religious beliefs is likely something that Bioware should not tread into. As someone above said, sexuality is not black and white for everyone; however it does not mean that every character needs to have a gray view of it.

Modifié par Heldenbrand, 23 mars 2011 - 02:08 .

[Elite Midget]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Your incessant spewing of your opinion as fact knows no bounds does it? Either provide evidence or your claim rings hollow. DA2 has not been successful in comparison to either its predecessor nor the Mass Effect series. It has yet to reach half the sales of either. Would I cite the bi relationships a failure? Not at all. That does not equate to BioWare abruptly deciding all romance subplots will be handled in a similar capacity.

Furthermore, your theory is inaccurate. Presume everyone in ME2 was bisexual. Their dialogue would be virtually identical whilst Meer and Hale would have to record additional lines respectively. BioWare would then have to render animations and CGI for each Shepard for three more romances. So in actuality, the cost would be more to handle in this manner, not less.

What do you have to assume that what I said was merely an opinion? I have Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 2 to back up my claims while all you have is nothing but denial. Please, you aren't even worth proving wrong since you must resort to such dribble and low blows. Learn to debate before you enter the field lest you make only a fool of yourself.