1677 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Captain Crash wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

I will say that some of it depends on your (everybody in general) perception.

I dont think "everybody in General" holds the same opinion as you even though you want to percieve this. 

You seem to assume everybody agrees with your stance. Look at the length of this thread and the opinions "in general" being shown.   A lot of them conflict with your stance quite openly. 


As long as its fitting to plot, which I think it can quite easily be.   I would welcome it.   

You didn't understand what I was saying. I was saying that for everyone's views, it depends on their perception.

[Moiaussi]

How would they be bi unless they started hitting/mentioning on other crew members too? Each play through is independant.
To say that any given character is Bi simply because they would flirt with both male and female Shepards is like saying Shepard is a hermaphrodite because you can have one game where Shep is male and another where Shep is female. They are independant, unrelated realities.
Now whether it makes sense for some characters to suddenly want romance when they didn't before that is a completely separate continuity issue.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

rynluna wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
Because you want to discuss this, so you should know what's going on before you shoot your mouth off.

And I'm not discussing Tali anymore. Me being a Tali fan has NOTHING to do with this.

The same exact thing could be said for you.  You should have realized that not everyone is going to agree with your opinion.  Romancing Tali has a lot to do with it, in that it's hypocritical for you to approve of her retconned romance but be against a retconned s/s one.  I just call it as I see it.

Uh, I'm for s/s romances, but not changing characters.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

adneate wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
And I don't think there can be a convincing enough change. It's the end of Shepard's story.

Thus far the big driving change for the romances are some sort of big battle, Ilos The Suicide Mission all the big romantic events take place before these events. I'm sure the end of the game will have a similar moment and a similar period of build up that would allow you to do the same thing. While such a change might not work for every single LI in the game there is ample opprotunity even at this late date in the series for a convincing change to some of them at the very least.

Or new characters could be introduced.

[adneate]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
Or new characters could be introduced.

Even if it meant Tali, Garrus and most of the ME2 team got cameoed? There's not infinite resources avaliable for these games and intorducing new characters will require all new models, textures and backstories in addition to new voice actors be brought on board. Finding a character to be a convincing same sex love interest is much cheaper and ensures they have a place in ME3's line up. Trying to enforce some kind of character purity while at the same time advocating new characters to fill partifular niches is just asking to be burned by the bean counters crunching the numbers.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

adneate wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
Or new characters could be introduced.

Even if it meant Tali, Garrus and most of the ME2 team got cameoed? There's not infinite resources avaliable for these games and intorducing new characters will require all new models, textures and backstories in addition to new voice actors be brought on board. Finding a character to be a convincing same sex love interest is much cheaper and ensures they have a place in ME3's line up. Trying to enforce some kind of character purity while at the same time advocating new characters to fill partifular niches is just asking to be burned by the bean counters crunching the numbers.

But who's to say that new characters aren't in the works?

Also, I highly doubt that the ME2 team will be cameoed. It would be a huge betrayal of almost ALL the fanbases.

[Captain Crash]

 

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

You didn't understand what I was saying. I was saying that for everyone's views, it depends on their perception.

Then whats your issue?

If you say its ok for people to have their views why dont you want them to percieve a bixexual or homosexual romance with their favourite Mass Effect charecters.    Or is it actually ok for them to do that.  Just so long as its not actually in the game and you dont have to see it?

I cant see how sexual orientation can damage a character unless you yourself let it.   Tali will always be Tali, Garrus will always be Garrus.  Kaidan will always be Kaidan.   

[Elite Midget]

It's either they make new characters or waste time trying to fulfill every variable for the killable Squaddies which would unbalance the game for different saves. That and saves that only have Zaeed, Kasumi, Mordin, Samara, Thane, and Grunt would be screwed anyway since they leave regardless without even factoring their killable status.

Much better to start anew than try and fix that trainwreck they made with the ME2 Squaddies. Simply put they never should have been killable in the first place and their deaths didn't really add all that much choice anyhow since the scenes played the same except they get hit for being stupid.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 23 mars 2011 - 05:48 .

[jeweledleah]

rynluna wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

my problem with rewriting Kaidan/Ash this way is due to the way ME1 romances, other then Liaras were structured.  there was a lot of ambient romantic content, battlefield flirting, offhand comments, the choice of who gets saved on Eden prime form the beacon, the little smiles, extra conversations...  you will have to explain away why those happened with only one gender. 

You're making it seem harder than it has to be.  Ashley can tell FemShep she had feelings for her years ago but never acted on them and now decided she wanted to take a chance.

it would not have the same depth.  but I suppose it works for some.  anything better then nothing isn't that what they say?

see, I view rpg's are "groundhog day"  you end up in a different place each time you live the day (or if you do all the same things - you end up in the same spot)  and you can change people/events around you, but you always start out on the same spot with the same people around you.

others view RPG's as alternate realities, complete with characters around you ALSO being different depending on your reality.  and other realities and whatever precedent they establish?  they don't matter becasue you don't know about them.

I personaly don't like the second option.  I cannot separate what I know, I cannot unremember it.  so simply saying "I just never told you before"  doesn't work for me.  i'm in a minority though.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Captain Crash wrote...

 

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

You didn't understand what I was saying. I was saying that for everyone's views, it depends on their perception.

Then whats your issue?

If you say its ok for people to have their views why dont you want them to percieve a bixexual or homosexual romance with their favourite Mass Effect charecters.    Or is it actually ok for them to do that.  Just so long as its not actually in the game and you dont have to see it?

I cant see how sexual orientation can damage a character unless you yourself let it.   Tali will always be Tali, Garrus will always be Garrus.  Kaidan will always be Kaidan.   

Look I have given reasons already. Please read the thread (not just the op)

[adneate]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
Also, I highly doubt that the ME2 team will be cameoed. It would be a huge betrayal of almost ALL the fanbases.

They cameoed the majority of the ME1 team and people were upset about that and if DA2 proves anything BioWare doesn't have a problem going against the fans. If adding new characters is easier and cheaper than bringing people back they'll do it in a heartbeat, the fans don't matter anymore all that matters is the bottomline. EA has to have a constant source of income to keep the doors open and the creditors off it's back, BioWare is division of EA now don't fool yourself into thinking they'll think of the fans before they think of the cash.

[Almostfaceman]

adneate wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
Or new characters could be introduced.

Even if it meant Tali, Garrus and most of the ME2 team got cameoed? There's not infinite resources avaliable for these games and intorducing new characters will require all new models, textures and backstories in addition to new voice actors be brought on board. Finding a character to be a convincing same sex love interest is much cheaper and ensures they have a place in ME3's line up. Trying to enforce some kind of character purity while at the same time advocating new characters to fill partifular niches is just asking to be burned by the bean counters crunching the numbers.

Well if you use this logic, you kinda enforce the existing characters romance factors to remain static, since adding more options adds more complexity  - which adds more cost.

P.S. Why does your avatar look so angry?  See mine?  Mine is thoughtful and Vanderlooish. 

[Captain Crash]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Look I have given reasons already. Please read the thread (not just the op)

Yes because everyone is going to read a 865 post thread back to back.     People read the OP first and the last couple of pages at most when its this big.

If you have given your reasons please repost to clarify your stance or update your OP so people dont carry on then.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

rynluna wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Uh, I'm for s/s romances, but not changing characters.

/facepalm

You continue to dig yourself deeper into a hole.  If you don't like changing/retconning of characters, then sadly your Shep is going to have to break up with Tali.  x D

You just want to argue and attack me for being a Tali fan.  I would use another gtfo pic, but I don't feel like it. So will you kindly


GTFO?

[Capt_Flashheart]

I'm sure this argument has been used a dozen times before my post, but if my real life girlfriend suddenly told me she was bi I wouldn't take it so well. Not because I hate bisexuals, but because saying she's bi means she might be attracted to someone else, or that I'm not enough for her. Part of being in love with someone is you wanting them to love you back, and I cherish what my girlfriend sees in me as a man. To hear from her that she could get the same sense of fufilment with someone else, that a woman could do a better job of providing for her, would be soul destroying.
This is why I think that currently straight LIs, should remain straight. I wouldn't care if there were new LIs in ME3 that were bi. I wouldn't romance them.

[adneate]

Almostfaceman wrote...
Well if you use this logic, you kinda enforce the existing characters romance factors to remain static, since adding more options adds more complexity  - which adds more cost.

But that taken to it's logical conclusion is to cameo everyone and hire new people for ME3 that way you don't have to worry about who lives or who dies or creating tons of content that some people might not see. Reduce all the survivors to 10 minute cameos get all new people for the squad and go from there. No complexity and probably less money as well.

[Mazder]

(From reading the OP)

I personally think it is okay for some characters to be Bi in ME3 so long as there is a valid reasoning behind it, the point is that some people do change and that if portrayed well enough I think it is valid.
As someone actually trying to decide what I am I feel that Bi-sexual experiments/talks actually help so if this is done well in ME3 then I have no problem with it.

But i'm not holding my breath, there has always been that controversy, even when ME1 first came out, the subject will always be bashed by those who don't play the games and Bioware as a company will have to conform to them, so in all reality I don't think anything will change much, if it does and it's done well then great, if not, I also don't mind as long as it doesn't destroy the characters we know and love.

[Elite Midget]

Bioware has a track record of Retconning Old Characters if they fit the Demopgraphic they want them to be. If Bioware wants to make any of the Old Squaddies into Shepard despite Gender than there's nothing that can be done. Since these are Bioware's character they can do with them as they please and they will always be right if they do go about this path.

Though since the chances of any killable Squaddie returning as a Squad Member is slim to none this issue shouldn't be a problem. Simply put in ME3 you wont have the option of pursueing a Romance with the Past Squaddies anyway from previous games if you didn't already have one by ME3.

Which means the only Romanceable Squaddies in ME3 will be the new ones just like in Mass Effect 2 where you can't just start a Romance with Liara or VS.

[oyukichan]

Hellbound555 wrote...

shepard needs a rabid gay stalker fan just so the people on the forums gets a taste of what we do to the other characters in the game.

Isn't this what Conrad Verner is for? He is totally hot for Shepard.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

rynluna wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

You just want to argue and attack me for being a Tali fan.  I would use another gtfo pic, but I don't feel like it. So will you kindly

GTFO?

I actually like Tali and would probably romance her with an alt FemShep if she were bisexual.  You want me to leave because I made you look like the hypocrite you are in a public thread.  Sorry, that's not how these forums work. 

I'm not a hypocrite. You seem to just be insulting me. That's why you should leave.

Modifié par Ramirez Wolfen, 23 mars 2011 - 06:05 .

[Almostfaceman]

adneate wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...
Well if you use this logic, you kinda enforce the existing characters romance factors to remain static, since adding more options adds more complexity  - which adds more cost.

But that taken to it's logical conclusion is to cameo everyone and hire new people for ME3 that way you don't have to worry about who lives or who dies or creating tons of content that some people might not see. Reduce all the survivors to 10 minute cameos get all new people for the squad and go from there. No complexity and probably less money as well.

Bioware has already repeatedly said it will continue the story utilizing all the variables from the previous two stories.  It would be illogical to break this promise.  What I said still remains logical and doesn't defy the logic of what has already been promised by Bioware.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 23 mars 2011 - 06:07 .