1677 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramirez Wolfen]

catabuca wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

See, that is where you fail. Please tell me where it was confirmed/implied that Ashley wasn't BI in ME1? Please tell me where it was confirmed/implied that Kaiden wasn't BI in ME1? Please tell me where it was confirmed/implied that Miranda/Jack/Thane/Jacob wasn't BI in ME2?

You talk about "changing" a character's sexual preference, when it was never really detailed what their sexual preference was. For all we know, Miranda could be BI, but she wasn't BI in ME2.....but that doesn't mean she can't be BI in ME3 because it was NEVER confirmed that she only was into men and wasn't into women. So your case about changing a character's sexual preference is just as a complete fail. Try again.

Also about it being the end of Shepard's story, thus meaning that he/she cannot find a new romance is just pure weakness. A cloud in the sky has more strength then your statement. Bioware has not confirmed that there will be new romances in Mass Effect 3, but since KOTOR (And I guess Neverwinter Knights/BG/BG2....I never played those games) there has ALWAYS been a romance option. So yeah, ME3 ends the Shepard story arch, but it is also developed as a stand alone game. So if I never played ME1 or ME2, I can still jump into ME3 and experience to same great Bioware story telling....including romances.

Again yet another reply from you and you are STILL avoiding the question as to why you don't support say....Miranda or any other ME2 romance being BI in ME3 but yet you support Tali being a romance option in ME2 when she wasn't in ME1. It isn't too late for Thane to go BI in ME3 just like it wasn't too late for Tali to be romanceable in ME2. And please do not say "Thane is straight in ME1" because while he might not have been a male on male romance option, that doesn't confirm anything about his sexual preference, same with the rest of the characters

I agree with all this, but to put it in another form -

Just because someone likes the opposite sex does not mean they are DEFINITELY straight.
Just because someone likes the same sex does not mean they are DEFINITELY gay.
Just because someone does not rush to romance Shepard does not mean they are DEFINITELY gay, bi, or straight.
Just because someone does rush to romance Shepard does not mean they are DEFINITELY gay, bi, or straight.

I know I'm quoting from way back when in this thread, but these two posts are so exceedingly stellar I needed to say how much I agree with them. 

This is an argument I've had time and time again (over in the Fight for the Love thread, for example). A person expressing an interest in one person at a particular point in their life does not mean they may not express an interest in another person at another point in their life, regardless of gender. To state Shepard, or any of the LIs are absolutely and definitively of one orientation or another when there have never been any lines in the game that state it as such is futile. If any of the LIs say 'Hey Shepard, I think you're great but I just don't swing that way' then we can safely assume a declaration about their orientation has been made. You might argue that about Jack (I read the 'girls club remark in another way, however - in that Jack doesn't want to be gal-pals, I never read anything about sexuality into that remark and was utterly shocked when I realised some did), but beyond that everything is open to interpretation. To make concrete remarks about something that is merely alluded to or not mentioned at all is ridiculous.

So that would rule Tali out, going by what you are saying.

[catabuca]

Naltair wrote...

I find all romances being bisexual or open to both genders as being incredibly lazy writing.

It's not lazy writing. It's called managing resources. There is a finite pool of money when developing a game. While it would always be preferable to have a mix of straight, bi, and gay LIs, that's not going to happen because the funds are not there. So the best compromise is to have bisexual LIs who are available to whatever gender of PC you decide to play. That way the maximum amount of content is available to the maximum amount of players. 

Perhaps one day in the future we will see a good mix of straight, bi, and gay LIs, but today is not that day. The compromise is bisexual. And more choice for more people in this case is a good thing.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

catabuca wrote...

Naltair wrote...

I find all romances being bisexual or open to both genders as being incredibly lazy writing.

It's not lazy writing. It's called managing resources. There is a finite pool of money when developing a game. While it would always be preferable to have a mix of straight, bi, and gay LIs, that's not going to happen because the funds are not there. So the best compromise is to have bisexual LIs who are available to whatever gender of PC you decide to play. That way the maximum amount of content is available to the maximum amount of players. 

Perhaps one day in the future we will see a good mix of straight, bi, and gay LIs, but today is not that day. The compromise is bisexual. And more choice for more people in this case is a good thing.

I hope they will have a another ME game after ME3 that will have that.

[Naltair]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Jack never said she was bisexual in ME 2. She said that she slept with a couple. Later on, she tells FemShep that she's not a girl's girl.

Just like a bisexual person can have a sexual history that includes only one sex, a straight woman can have a sexual history that includes both.

I wish more people reognized this.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Naltair wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Jack never said she was bisexual in ME 2. She said that she slept with a couple. Later on, she tells FemShep that she's not a girl's girl.

Just like a bisexual person can have a sexual history that includes only one sex, a straight woman can have a sexual history that includes both.

I wish more people reognized this.

True.

[Siansonea]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

This thread is still around? Has to be one of the most successful troll threads to date, so kudos to the OP I guess.

Accusing me of being a troll (which I'm not)? You almost got another GTFO pic. But seriously go somewhere else.

Oh, I'm not accusing you of being a troll. An accusation is generally something that is unsubstantiated. You are a troll, you just seem to think prefacing remarks with 'disclaimers' absolves you of the responsibility of saying trollish things. Here's a typical Ramirez Wolfen™ scenario (Patents Pending):

"I'm not a homophobe, but [insert homophobic statement here]"
"I'm not trying to be a troll, but [insert blatant trollspeak here]"
"I'm don't mean to offend anyone, but [insert offensive statement here]."

So don't act all innocent. The very fact that you feel you have to give yourself the loophole of a disclaimer in the first place means you know EXACTLY what you are doing, how offensive you are being, and so on. And it has to be for 'teh lulz', because I can't see any other reason for your behavior.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

This thread is still around? Has to be one of the most successful troll threads to date, so kudos to the OP I guess.

Accusing me of being a troll (which I'm not)? You almost got another GTFO pic. But seriously go somewhere else.

Oh, I'm not accusing you of being a troll. An accusation is generally something that is unsubstantiated. You are a troll, you just seem to think prefacing remarks with 'disclaimers' absolves you of the responsibility of saying trollish things. Here's a typical Ramirez Wolfen™ scenario (Patents Pending):

"I'm not a homophobe, but [insert homophobic statement here]"
"I'm not trying to be a troll, but [insert blatant trollspeak here]"
"I'm don't mean to offend anyone, but [insert offensive statement here]."

So don't act all innocent. The very fact that you feel you have to give yourself the loophole of a disclaimer in the first place means you know EXACTLY what you are doing, how offensive you are being, and so on. And it has to be for 'teh lulz', because I can't see any other reason for your behavior.

If I didn't say any of all that, people would assume that I was, which I'm not. Just like people have to say "my opinion" because some don't understand that just about EVERYTHING here is opinions.

Why are you being mean to me? This isn't nice.

I thought we were friends.

Modifié par Ramirez Wolfen, 23 mars 2011 - 09:29 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

DOUBLE POST, sorry.

Modifié par Ramirez Wolfen, 23 mars 2011 - 09:29 .

[graciegrace]

as long as there's one guy who's a bisexual love interest I don't care tbh. I agree it shouldn't be an old character suddenly made bisexual, I think it should be a new character. Liara worked very well as a bisexual option in ME1, and to be honest, I always feel like she works better with FemShep, but that's just me. I want a male/male romance option in the game. I dislike being forced to be straight.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

graciegrace wrote...

as long as there's one guy who's a bisexual love interest I don't care tbh. I agree it shouldn't be an old character suddenly made bisexual, I think it should be a new character. Liara worked very well as a bisexual option in ME1, and to be honest, I always feel like she works better with FemShep, but that's just me. I want a male/male romance option in the game. I dislike being forced to be straight.

I want new characters who are gay or bi, too. This is what I've been saying this entire thread (this isn't meant at you, but other folks who have misunderstood me)

[Celtic Latino]

I don't mind new characters being gay or bisexual, but I agree that established characters outside of Liara and Samara should remain heterosexual. The ONLY exceptions I would make is Jack, who has had boyfriends and girlfriends before, but even she seems to prefer men over women and made it clear to Fem Shep that she isn't interested, and Kelly Chambers, who pretty much will be with anything that is sentient and walks.

I admit though if male Shepard couldn't romance any male characters in the first two games, it'd be kind of weird to have it in for the third game.

As for those complaining about DA2, this is what I think:
I don't consider Anders, Fenris or Merrill to be bisexual, I consider them to be whoever they are romancing in the game.

Anders can easily be heterosexual if you do not follow the heart options since he doesn't come on to you unless you flirt with him or use those responses. If anything, he is only bisexual (or even gay) if you are a male Hawke romancing him. The relationship he had with Karl can be taken as a friendship (female Hawke or straight male Hawke) in which he hated losing a fellow mage (remember he's delusional), and only a gay male Hawke in THAT canon would see Anders and Karl as being together.

Fenris and Merrill can be considered heterosexual if you are playing an opposite sex romance with them or even homosexual, since neither mentions any past loves with anyone. Just because either gender can romance them doesn't make them bisexual necessarily.

The only true bisexual that has been established was Isabela. Just wanted to point that out that it all depends on your story and canon.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Celtic Latino wrote...

I don't mind new characters being gay or bisexual, but I agree that established characters outside of Liara and Samara should remain heterosexual. The ONLY exceptions I would make is Jack, who has had boyfriends and girlfriends before, but even she seems to prefer men over women and made it clear to Fem Shep that she isn't interested, and Kelly Chambers, who pretty much will be with anything that is sentient and walks.

I admit though if male Shepard couldn't romance any male characters in the first two games, it'd be kind of weird to have it in for the third game.

As for those complaining about DA2, this is what I think:
I don't consider Anders, Fenris or Merrill to be bisexual, I consider them to be whoever they are romancing in the game.

Anders can easily be heterosexual if you do not follow the heart options since he doesn't come on to you unless you flirt with him or use those responses. If anything, he is only bisexual (or even gay) if you are a male Hawke romancing him. The relationship he had with Karl can be taken as a friendship (female Hawke or straight male Hawke) in which he hated losing a fellow mage (remember he's delusional), and only a gay male Hawke in THAT canon would see Anders and Karl as being together.

Fenris and Merrill can be considered heterosexual if you are playing an opposite sex romance with them or even homosexual, since neither mentions any past loves with anyone. Just because either gender can romance them doesn't make them bisexual necessarily.

The only true bisexual that has been established was Isabela. Just wanted to point that out that it all depends on your story and canon.

Not meant at you, Celtic Latino, but this thread isn't anti bi or anti gay. I WANT bi or gay romances, but new characters who do this, not the ones we already have.

[emmanuelsieyes]

When creating a Shepard, you get to choose 'Asexual, Heterosexual, or Homosexual'.

Problem SOLVED.

As long as I can romance Liara I don't care how the system works.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

When creating a Shepard, you get to choose 'Asexual, Heterosexual, or Homosexual'.

Problem SOLVED.

As long as I can romance Liara I don't care how the system works.

That won't work for cost reasons.

[Celtic Latino]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Celtic Latino wrote...

I don't mind new characters being gay or bisexual, but I agree that established characters outside of Liara and Samara should remain heterosexual. The ONLY exceptions I would make is Jack, who has had boyfriends and girlfriends before, but even she seems to prefer men over women and made it clear to Fem Shep that she isn't interested, and Kelly Chambers, who pretty much will be with anything that is sentient and walks.

I admit though if male Shepard couldn't romance any male characters in the first two games, it'd be kind of weird to have it in for the third game.

As for those complaining about DA2, this is what I think:
I don't consider Anders, Fenris or Merrill to be bisexual, I consider them to be whoever they are romancing in the game.

Anders can easily be heterosexual if you do not follow the heart options since he doesn't come on to you unless you flirt with him or use those responses. If anything, he is only bisexual (or even gay) if you are a male Hawke romancing him. The relationship he had with Karl can be taken as a friendship (female Hawke or straight male Hawke) in which he hated losing a fellow mage (remember he's delusional), and only a gay male Hawke in THAT canon would see Anders and Karl as being together.

Fenris and Merrill can be considered heterosexual if you are playing an opposite sex romance with them or even homosexual, since neither mentions any past loves with anyone. Just because either gender can romance them doesn't make them bisexual necessarily.

The only true bisexual that has been established was Isabela. Just wanted to point that out that it all depends on your story and canon.

Not meant at you, Celtic Latino, but this thread isn't anti bi or anti gay. I WANT bi or gay romances, but new characters who do this, not the ones we already have.

Oh I know that, don't worry.  If anything I agree with what you are saying. 

[Wittand25]

mopotter wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
It ruins consistency, if you ask me. Also, does it matter that I'm a Tali fan? Some folks who agree with me aren't Tali fans. And please, PLEASE, stop talking about equality. This isn't about that. This is about not changing things to keep the characters constant.

And, I am currently considering working for Bioware(if they'll let me). And, once again, the DA2 romances were not the best.

That depends on how it is handeld. The ME2 team already went the cheap way and made all not romantic dialog identical for both Shepards. So several lines come across as if there is an attraction to a Shepard of the same sex but it is never acted upon. That could be used in ME3.

However I do not believe that the old squad-mates will be back. All but the VS and Liara can be dead after all. And the VS is in the same situation as the sibling in DA2, who gets removed from the rooster for the biggest part of that game too in order to safe resources. So any romances will be with new squad-mates anyway.

I would like the link where you find this information.  Chris has always said that the VS will be back in ME3 and that is why they were not in ME2.    I don't believe if you romanced Kaidan or Ash in ME1 they will not carry that through to the end of ME3.  

 

What information? One of the two canditates for VS dies in ME1, one sibling dies in DA2. This is an identiacal situation just play the games.
Spoilers for DA2
In order to safe resources the surviving sibling leaves the party at the end of the next act and only shows up for short moments during the rest of the game and the final fight. Since the situation is nearly identical for the VS in ME3 it is reasonable to assume that the same solution will be applied. Yes characters in the ME games have less interaction with each other and therefore the squadmates are cheaper but making two full squadmates of whom you only can meet one is still a waste of resources.
Chris has never said that the VS or anyone else will return as squadmate in ME3 and neither has anyone else from the Dev team. The explanation why the ME2 Lis were not recruit-able was that they are supposed to play an important part in ME3. But that does not require them to be squad mates. And actually considering how Bioware marketing goes that does not even require that there is even one single interaction between them and Shepard or them having more than five minutes of screen time (though I doubt that Bioware will be this cheap)

[emmanuelsieyes]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

When creating a Shepard, you get to choose 'Asexual, Heterosexual, or Homosexual'.

Problem SOLVED.

As long as I can romance Liara I don't care how the system works.

That won't work for cost reasons.

All they have to do is have mark meer/jennifer hale record some extra lines. The romance subplots aren't exactly long, i doubt it would take an immense amount of effort. Hell, people have tweaked the in-game models so that femshep is dressed like miranda with her shirt off. That could be done to replace maleshep with femshep or vice versa.

[moddit]

This thread is gay/bi/straight, just so no one gets offended and upset over anonymous internet posts. 

This is a homophobes thread (nothing wrong with that), and I could care less what a fictional character's sexual preference is.

Modifié par moddit, 23 mars 2011 - 09:51 .

[LelianaNeverLovedMe]

I said this over on the Dragon Age forums, I'll say it here. Choice for the player is awesome and its great Bioware thinks of players other than those wishing to pursue only heterosexual options in RPGs. Given that, especially in the Dragon Age series and to an extent ME, Bioware has allowed for same sex relationships I'm surprised it still causes such a fuss. Its not like it should be a shock at this point. If its such a repugnant idea for some "non homophobes" perhaps you should stop buying the games?

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Celtic Latino wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Celtic Latino wrote...

I don't mind new characters being gay or bisexual, but I agree that established characters outside of Liara and Samara should remain heterosexual. The ONLY exceptions I would make is Jack, who has had boyfriends and girlfriends before, but even she seems to prefer men over women and made it clear to Fem Shep that she isn't interested, and Kelly Chambers, who pretty much will be with anything that is sentient and walks.

I admit though if male Shepard couldn't romance any male characters in the first two games, it'd be kind of weird to have it in for the third game.

As for those complaining about DA2, this is what I think:
I don't consider Anders, Fenris or Merrill to be bisexual, I consider them to be whoever they are romancing in the game.

Anders can easily be heterosexual if you do not follow the heart options since he doesn't come on to you unless you flirt with him or use those responses. If anything, he is only bisexual (or even gay) if you are a male Hawke romancing him. The relationship he had with Karl can be taken as a friendship (female Hawke or straight male Hawke) in which he hated losing a fellow mage (remember he's delusional), and only a gay male Hawke in THAT canon would see Anders and Karl as being together.

Fenris and Merrill can be considered heterosexual if you are playing an opposite sex romance with them or even homosexual, since neither mentions any past loves with anyone. Just because either gender can romance them doesn't make them bisexual necessarily.

The only true bisexual that has been established was Isabela. Just wanted to point that out that it all depends on your story and canon.

Not meant at you, Celtic Latino, but this thread isn't anti bi or anti gay. I WANT bi or gay romances, but new characters who do this, not the ones we already have.

Oh I know that, don't worry.  If anything I agree with what you are saying. 

I will admit, though, when making this thread I should have chose better words. And I do wish Kaidan, Jack, and Ashley were bi from the beginning ( I think it would have made them even MORE interesting.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

When creating a Shepard, you get to choose 'Asexual, Heterosexual, or Homosexual'.

Problem SOLVED.

As long as I can romance Liara I don't care how the system works.

That won't work for cost reasons.

All they have to do is have mark meer/jennifer hale record some extra lines. The romance subplots aren't exactly long, i doubt it would take an immense amount of effort. Hell, people have tweaked the in-game models so that femshep is dressed like miranda with her shirt off. That could be done to replace maleshep with femshep or vice versa.

Resources aren't infintie.

[Centauri2002]

darthtater10 wrote...

I said this over on the Dragon Age forums, I'll say it here. Choice for the player is awesome and its great Bioware thinks of players other than those wishing to pursue only heterosexual options in RPGs. Given that, especially in the Dragon Age series and to an extent ME, Bioware has allowed for same sex relationships I'm surprised it still causes such a fuss. Its not like it should be a shock at this point. If its such a repugnant idea for some "non homophobes" perhaps you should stop buying the games?

The original point of this thread was about changing existing characters' perceived sexuality to appease certain sections of the community. Of course, the topic has jumped about a lot since then but I don't think there are many who are against non-heterosexual romance options.

[Centauri2002]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

When creating a Shepard, you get to choose 'Asexual, Heterosexual, or Homosexual'.

Problem SOLVED.

As long as I can romance Liara I don't care how the system works.

That won't work for cost reasons.

All they have to do is have mark meer/jennifer hale record some extra lines. The romance subplots aren't exactly long, i doubt it would take an immense amount of effort. Hell, people have tweaked the in-game models so that femshep is dressed like miranda with her shirt off. That could be done to replace maleshep with femshep or vice versa.

Resources aren't infintie.

You say that like you know how much it'll cost. Go on, enlighten us. 

[Ramirez Wolfen]

moddit wrote...

This thread is gay/bi/straight, just so no one gets offended and upset over anonymous internet posts. 

This is a homophobes thread (nothing wrong with that), and I could care less what a fictional character's sexual preference is.

What? Some posts that were not made by me were homophobic (and I condemn those silently), but that isn't the aim of this thread.