1677 réponses à ce sujet

[JamieCOTC]

Elite Midget wrote...

Still don't see why Jack would reject Femshepard when in another conversation she's mentioned that she's been with women and men for pleasure and attachment in the past. Hell, they even should have given Femshep an option to have a short one night stand with Jack if Femshep if they wanna take advantage of her.

Jack being Bi isn't a question but a fact. She does it both ways... Unless you're FemShepard than you're not allowed to pursue it because Bioware said so. Bi for all other women but FemShepard.

Unless someone at BW spills the beans, the reason why Jack is not bi for femShep will always remain a mystery to me.  It may be as simple as, they didn't want her to be and that's fine. Other than that, however ...

[Naltair]

ReiSilver wrote...

It didn't stop them making Tali suddenly interested in aliens out of the blue in ME2, but she's not bi so CRISIS AVERTED! CHARACTER TOTALLY NOT CHEAPENED but if she had been interested in female shepard then whoa there, how unrelaistic, STOP THE FUN BUS.

It irritates me when people complain that a character being bisexual cheapens the all important straight romance. You can't enjoy your pie knowing someone else also enjoys it? It's like saying a character shouldn't be interested in Renegade Shepard because they were totally into my paragon! How can they like a renegade? So unrealistic!<_<

My biggest irritation is that people want more same sex choices for female Shepard, probably because they are male and uncomfortable romancing a a male character with a female avatar, while Male Shepard has no same sex options.

[Naltair]

Nyoka wrote...

Naltair wrote...

I didn't say anything about the other choices I was just saying that a same sex relationship already exists in the game, actually two choices but only for the female gender.

There needs to be parity for a male choice. Create a new character in ME3, would be my suggestion. Someone designed to be gay or at least bisexual.

Which is lame. Why shouldn't a gay man romance Thane the same way a woman does? That would provide the same experience for everyone. "Because Thane is heterosexual!". Well, Thane might be heterosexual in your profile, in your particular mass effect universe, which doesn't mean it must be so in mine. Sexuality is not what defines his persona. He still would be recognizable as Thane even if there was no romance at all.

A gay token guy is a terrible decision. First, it negatively affects replayability because there is only the token guy to romance in every single playthrough, while everyone else has a wider range of possibilities. Second, it ghettoes and trivializes same sex relationships by defining one character explicitly by his orientation.

I am not a big fan of making every character every orientation.  It didn't work very well in DA2 at least for me.

[coolair74]

Elite Midget wrote...

It doesn't change anything.

Garrus was your bro in ME1 and ME2 yet in ME3 he starts feeling a bit differently after cnstantly serving as a Male Shepard's must trusted friend and ally. The Male Shepard sees this and pushes things and suddenly Garrus breaks down because he doesn't understand these feelings since they're both Men. Which in turn leads to them kissing and so forth.

See, there. Garrus has the potiential to be Bi now without running his character.

Just like how Tali had a mild attraction in ME1 that can blown into a romance in ME2.

No, no he doesnt.  Why would he just come out to you after 4 years of running around.  Shepard isnt gay, that is the foremost important fact.  For 2 games there hasnt been anything that he has done that would lead toward him being gay. He is a manly man and likes the girls. Done and done. Dont mess with Alex P Keation Shepard.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

ReiSilver wrote...


It didn't stop them making Tali suddenly interested in aliens out of the blue in ME2, but she's not bi so CRISIS AVERTED! CHARACTER TOTALLY NOT CHEAPENED but if she had been interested in female shepard then whoa there, how unrelaistic, STOP THE FUN BUS.

It irritates me when people complain that a character being bisexual cheapens the all important straight romance. You can't enjoy your pie knowing someone else also enjoys it? It's like saying a character shouldn't be interested in Renegade Shepard because they were totally into my paragon! How can they like a renegade? So unrealistic!<_<

If Tali was interested in Manshep AND Femshep from the beginning, to me it wouldn't be a problem.

And Samara, with a STRICT code of honor and whatnot, rejects you if you are Renegade (paragon too but she states the renegade thing), REGARDLESS if you are playing as male or female.

[coolair74]

dbl post , forum fails.

Modifié par coolair74, 22 mars 2011 - 04:22 .

[UndercoverDoctor]

Like I've said before, making everyone BI is lazy.

[Naltair]

Elite Midget wrote...

People are naturally hypocrites. It's only natural that they would desire what 'they' want and don't want anything that would 'ruin' said desire in their eyes.

In this case if there's an option for these Squaddies to Bisexual than obviously to some it means ME3 is ruined because who these characters can bone is somehow important to the plot of ME3.

That doesn't change the fact that Jack is Bi and the only thing stopping a romance is because Bioware said so. Jack is just like Ashley in that matter in that they were supposed to be Bi but a decision was made to just make them straight. In Jack's case they forgot to remove the part where she says that she's been with women.

So because she once, or even a few times, engaged in sexual contact with a man and a woman at the same time she is now forever bisexual, she can't, I don't know, just have had some experiences and decided later on, nope I don't want to do that anymore?

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Elite Midget wrote...

People are naturally hypocrites. It's only natural that they would desire what 'they' want and don't want anything that would 'ruin' said desire in their eyes.

In this case if there's an option for these Squaddies to Bisexual than obviously to some it means ME3 is ruined because who these characters can bone is somehow important to the plot of ME3.

That doesn't change the fact that Jack is Bi and the only thing stopping a romance is because Bioware said so. Jack is just like Ashley in that matter in that they were supposed to be Bi but a decision was made to just make them straight. In Jack's case they forgot to remove the part where she says that she's been with women.

I actually WANTED Jack to be bi.

[Naltair]

I think many people expected Jack to be a bisexual choice, but she isn't.

[Elite Midget]

Just because she wasen't a choice does'nt change the fact that Jack is Bi.

coolair74 wrote...

No, no he doesnt.  Why would he just come out to you after 4 years of running around.  Shepard isnt gay, that is the foremost important fact.  For 2 games there hasnt been anything that he has done that would lead toward him being gay. He is a manly man and likes the girls. Done and done. Dont mess with Alex P Keation Shepard.

No, no she doesn't. Why would Tali just come out to you after 2 years of Shepard being dead. Shepard isn't a Quarian, that is the foremost important fact. For ME there hasen't been anything that he has done that would lean toweard him being into Tali or her into he. He's a manly man and showed no interest in Quarians in ME1. Done and done. Don't mess up Male Shepard.

Yet we ALL know what happened in ME2, don't we?

Modifié par Elite Midget, 22 mars 2011 - 04:25 .

[MajesticJazz]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

7.  Why Bioware can't do it for folks who want Bi LIs? Simple:

It's too late and it ruins the character (if you ask me)

It effects me only if the character wasn't bi or gay from the start and just suddenly chooses to be that way. Otherwise, I don't care.

It is clear that you're either a homophobe or just a REALLY closed minded person who beliefs that your beliefs are the superior beliefs over others if they don't agree with you. When I make a opinion, at least I detail it bit by bid and not offer "vague" sentences that just beats around the bush. It is clear that you have no real justification to not having old characters turn BI in ME3 other than you are just against it. Very elementary argument if you ask me.

Also, you fail to answer my question regarding Bioware doing the Tali romance in ME2 to appease a "niche audience". Judging by your sig, you have a Tali/Shepard romanced theme sig which would imply that you support/liked the Tali romance in ME2. 

It wasn't implied NOWHERE in ME1 that Tali was interested in Shepard or that humans can have sex with Quarians. However all of that changed for ME2 because suddenly Tali gained this huge fanbase, even larger than Wrex's. This fanbase (mostly younger teenage boys) found Tali very attractive and was kinda set back that she wasn't a romance option alongside Liara and Ashley. Even Bioware admitted that they didn't expect people to find aliens with a hidden face and "chicken feet" to be viewed as sexy/attractive. So they decided to "Appease" to this crowd and make Tali not only Shepard's cheerleader in ME2, but also his romance.

You seem to support Bioware's decision to "appease" to the "Talimancer" crowd by doing a 180 turn and making Tali a romance option out of nowhere. However you are against Bioware to "appease" to the BI romance supporters to do a 180 turn and making Ashley/Kaiden/Miranda/Jack/Jacob etc....BI romance options.

Again, this just proves that your argument is lacking valid foundation as you have faild to really detail your motives outside of "I just think it's weird" stance.

And if you cannot dig up such validation then yes, you are a homophobe.

[ReiSilver]

Naltair wrote...

ReiSilver wrote...

It didn't stop them making Tali suddenly interested in aliens out of the blue in ME2, but she's not bi so CRISIS AVERTED! CHARACTER TOTALLY NOT CHEAPENED but if she had been interested in female shepard then whoa there, how unrelaistic, STOP THE FUN BUS.

It irritates me when people complain that a character being bisexual cheapens the all important straight romance. You can't enjoy your pie knowing someone else also enjoys it? It's like saying a character shouldn't be interested in Renegade Shepard because they were totally into my paragon! How can they like a renegade? So unrealistic!<_<

My biggest irritation is that people want more same sex choices for female Shepard, probably because they are male and uncomfortable romancing a a male character with a female avatar, while Male Shepard has no same sex options.

Female shepard so far has three Asari interested in her and Kelly.
Meanwhile any male shepard who is only interested in other men is forever alone.
I'll say it again, where's my extreamly attractive practically human alien race that all look male and well sleep with anyone? Where are their dancers?

[Naltair]

Nyoka wrote...
Not every character every orientation. Every character only one single orientation. But that orientation depends on your profile. I have two profiles. In one profile, Jacob is gay. In the other profile, Jacob is straight. What's wrong with that?

How is that determined?

Do you select the, I want characters to be gay/bi switch?  I am not following how that is any different from DA2?

[coolair74]

Naltair wrote...

ReiSilver wrote...

It didn't stop them making Tali suddenly interested in aliens out of the blue in ME2, but she's not bi so CRISIS AVERTED! CHARACTER TOTALLY NOT CHEAPENED but if she had been interested in female shepard then whoa there, how unrelaistic, STOP THE FUN BUS.

It irritates me when people complain that a character being bisexual cheapens the all important straight romance. You can't enjoy your pie knowing someone else also enjoys it? It's like saying a character shouldn't be interested in Renegade Shepard because they were totally into my paragon! How can they like a renegade? So unrealistic!<_<

My biggest irritation is that people want more same sex choices for female Shepard, probably because they are male and uncomfortable romancing a a male character with a female avatar, while Male Shepard has no same sex options.

Yeah I can agree with this, I played through DA:O as a female 3 times and I romanced Allistair and Bi elf, so I have no problem with it if you are playing as a femshep , but we all know that the REAL Shepard is male.  Female Shepard is in the Gally makin a steak for Garrus.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Nyoka wrote...

Naltair wrote...

I didn't say anything about the other choices I was just saying that a same sex relationship already exists in the game, actually two choices but only for the female gender.

There needs to be parity for a male choice. Create a new character in ME3, would be my suggestion. Someone designed to be gay or at least bisexual.

Which is lame. Why shouldn't a gay man romance Thane the same way a woman does? That would provide the same gaming experience for everyone. "Because Thane is heterosexual!". Well, Thane might be heterosexual in your profile, in your particular mass effect universe, which doesn't mean it must be so in mine. Sexuality is not what defines his persona. He still would be recognizable as Thane even if there was no romance at all.

A gay token guy is a terrible decision. First, it negatively affects replayability because there is only the token guy to romance in every single playthrough, while everyone else has a wider range of possibilities. Second, it ghettoes and trivializes same sex relationships by defining one character explicitly by his orientation.

Thane would become Zevran. If you ask me, NO. (I like Zevran and I am a STRAIGHT male, but no)

Also, IT IS TOO LATE TO ADD THAT.

[Merci357]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Still don't see why Jack would reject Femshepard when in another conversation she's mentioned that she's been with women and men for pleasure and attachment in the past. Hell, they even should have given Femshep an option to have a short one night stand with Jack if Femshep if they wanna take advantage of her.

Jack being Bi isn't a question but a fact. She does it both ways... Unless you're FemShepard than you're not allowed to pursue it because Bioware said so. Bi for all other women but FemShepard.

Unless someone at BW spills the beans, the reason why Jack is not bi for femShep will always remain a mystery to me.  It may be as simple as, they didn't want her to be and that's fine. Other than that, however ...

I guess the reason behind it is this quote from Casey Hudson:
“We still view it as… if you’re picturing a PG-13 action movie,” Hudson commented, referencing the overall level of maturity intended for the product, “That’s how we’re trying to design it. So that’s why the love interest is relatively light.”

Modifié par Merci357, 22 mars 2011 - 04:29 .

[Schattenkeil]

A love interest isn't necessarily bisexual, just because he or she would have romantic interest in a Shepard of the opposed gender as well, because Shepard can only be of either, but not both genders. Because the only romance is between Shepard and a team mate, but never between two team mates, there is no reference. An love interest in Mass Effect can therefore only be ******- or hetero-sexual. But never bi.

Secondly the mere, technical possibility of a love interest does not mean you have to take it. But f you don't take it - and the potential love interest didn't hit on you either - this technical potential has no measurable impact in game, and thus doesn't exist.

In other words: If your Shepard will act perfectly hetero, the crew will be hetero as well, even if other possibilities towards the game exist.

To say it with the words of a wise man who lived a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away: "Shepard, you're going to find that many truths we clinge to depend greatly on our own point of view."

Modifié par Schattenkeil, 22 mars 2011 - 04:29 .

[Siansonea]

Nyoka wrote...

About "let's not change the characters".

As far as I know, same sex relationships were not even allowed in ME1&2. Shepard never started a conversation that could lead to a romance. Not one character is explicitly heterosexual, nor did they reject a possible relationship. The subject isn't contemplated at all. Is this true?

If they had rejected a certain kind of relationship and then they accept it in ME3, that would be changing the characters in a contradictory way. But if they said absolutely nothing about it in the first place, that's not changing anything, it's adding something. They never talked about it; might as well start talking about it now. No contradiction.

Exactly.

Only problem is, this isn't a logical discussion, this is an emotional argument. Basically, the thought process is "gay stuff freaks me out, keep gay stuff away from me!!!!" There's no reasoning with that. <_<

[Elite Midget]

My Renegade Male Shepard wanted a romance with another man.

There was no such option.

My Renegade FemSheoard wanted a romance with another woman.

She has options.

See how messed up that is? So how it's okay to have woman on woman action yet no man in ME can show an interest in Shepard or likewise?

That's hypocritical to the core and I facepalmed when a Dev one said that Male Shepard wasen't gay in a game about CHOICES.

[Naltair]

I am not even going to comment on the Tali situation because it is what it is, using that as ammunition to support your bisexual cause is sort of sending a mixed message. Let's focus on that and not muddy the waters.

Also the implication that somehow most/all Tali fans are immature teens is also insulting.

[coolair74]

Elite Midget wrote...

Just because she wasen't a choice does'nt change the fact that Jack is Bi.

coolair74 wrote...

No, no he doesnt.  Why would he just come out to you after 4 years of running around.  Shepard isnt gay, that is the foremost important fact.  For 2 games there hasnt been anything that he has done that would lead toward him being gay. He is a manly man and likes the girls. Done and done. Dont mess with Alex P Keation Shepard.

No, no she doesn't. Why would Tali just come out to you after 2 years of Shepard being dead. Shepard isn't a Quarian, that is the foremost important fact. For ME there hasen't been anything that he has done that would lean toweard him being into Tali or her into he. He's a manly man and showed no interest in Quarians in ME1. Done and done. Don't mess up Male Shepard.

Yet we ALL know what happened in ME2, don't we?

Apples and Oranges my friend. Tali is a girl and Shepard likes girls. So it wasnt a stretch to include this in ME2.
Thats like saying he never said he liked black girls. He likes all girls. He doesnt want buttsechs.

Again, Shepard ISNT gay. Done and done. You cant argue that.