1677 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramirez Wolfen]

centauri2002 wrote...

darthtater10 wrote...

I said this over on the Dragon Age forums, I'll say it here. Choice for the player is awesome and its great Bioware thinks of players other than those wishing to pursue only heterosexual options in RPGs. Given that, especially in the Dragon Age series and to an extent ME, Bioware has allowed for same sex relationships I'm surprised it still causes such a fuss. Its not like it should be a shock at this point. If its such a repugnant idea for some "non homophobes" perhaps you should stop buying the games?

The original point of this thread was about changing existing characters' perceived sexuality to appease certain sections of the community. Of course, the topic has jumped about a lot since then but I don't think there are many who are against non-heterosexual romance options.

This late in the game.

[Commander_Adept]

This thread needs to die. It's the same 4 posts over and over and over and over again.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Commander_Adept wrote...

This thread needs to die. It's the same 4 posts over and over and over and over again.

If you feel that way, why not just leave the thread alone?

[Ramirez Wolfen]

centauri2002 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

When creating a Shepard, you get to choose 'Asexual, Heterosexual, or Homosexual'.

Problem SOLVED.

As long as I can romance Liara I don't care how the system works.

That won't work for cost reasons.

All they have to do is have mark meer/jennifer hale record some extra lines. The romance subplots aren't exactly long, i doubt it would take an immense amount of effort. Hell, people have tweaked the in-game models so that femshep is dressed like miranda with her shirt off. That could be done to replace maleshep with femshep or vice versa.

Resources aren't infintie.

You say that like you know how much it'll cost. Go on, enlighten us. 

I'm not saying I know how much it costs, I'm just being realistic here. Adding extra stuff isn't cheap and developers DO have deadlines.

[emmanuelsieyes]

centauri2002 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

When creating a Shepard, you get to choose 'Asexual, Heterosexual, or Homosexual'.

Problem SOLVED.

As long as I can romance Liara I don't care how the system works.

That won't work for cost reasons.

All they have to do is have mark meer/jennifer hale record some extra lines. The romance subplots aren't exactly long, i doubt it would take an immense amount of effort. Hell, people have tweaked the in-game models so that femshep is dressed like miranda with her shirt off. That could be done to replace maleshep with femshep or vice versa.

Resources aren't infintie.

You say that like you know how much it'll cost. Go on, enlighten us. 

Except they _already did it_. ME1 had bi romance dialogue for all 3 LI's. As of ME2, there are 9 total romance options. They don't have to make every single LI bisexual. I get the feeling that having Kaiden/Ash be bisexual for ME3 would be enough.

The reasons why they dummied out same-sex human LI's was never because of money--after all, they were there in me1! The reason is because having Kaiden or Garrus making a pass at Sheploo is potentially going to ****** some people off.

[Centauri2002]

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Except they _already did it_. ME1 had bi romance dialogue for all 3 LI's. As of ME2, there are 9 total romance options. They don't have to make every single LI bisexual. I get the feeling that having Kaiden/Ash be bisexual for ME3 would be enough.

The reasons why they dummied out same-sex human LI's was never because of money--after all, they were there in me1! The reason is because having Kaiden or Garrus making a pass at Sheploo is potentially going to ****** some people off.

Absolutely. Just look at the media attention for the, in my opinion, tastefully done sex scene in ME1. Imagine how bad that would have been if the game had included the extra Ash/Kaiden romance options. D: Of course, I don't see that as much of an excuse but I can't blame them for fearing the backlash either. We're still making steps in the right direction so I can't complain too much.

[Siansonea]

Commander_Adept wrote...

This thread needs to die. It's the same 4 posts over and over and over and over again.

I know, right? It has all the classic identifiers of a troll topic. An incendiary thread title, a contentious topic, and an unwillingness on the part of the OP to actually discuss the subject rationally. From what I gather, the underlying principle of this topic is "I just don't like it" or something or other, so it's basically a statement of opinion. Okay, that's your opinion, we get it. But the incendiary thread title (which could have been revised by the OP at any point) just keeps reeling in the people who are incensed at the temerity of the topic's title. Unfortunately, those people are trying to have a conversation about a subject they feel strongly about, and it is a complete waste of time. Why? Because the point of this thread is really just for the OP to state his opinion, not engage in meaningful discourse and possibly revisit some attitudes and preconceptions.

[MisterDyslexo]

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

When creating a Shepard, you get to choose 'Asexual, Heterosexual, or Homosexual'.

Problem SOLVED.

As long as I can romance Liara I don't care how the system works.

That won't work for cost reasons.

All they have to do is have mark meer/jennifer hale record some extra lines. The romance subplots aren't exactly long, i doubt it would take an immense amount of effort. Hell, people have tweaked the in-game models so that femshep is dressed like miranda with her shirt off. That could be done to replace maleshep with femshep or vice versa.

Resources aren't infintie.

You say that like you know how much it'll cost. Go on, enlighten us. 

Except they _already did it_. ME1 had bi romance dialogue for all 3 LI's. As of ME2, there are 9 total romance options. They don't have to make every single LI bisexual. I get the feeling that having Kaiden/Ash be bisexual for ME3 would be enough.

The reasons why they dummied out same-sex human LI's was never because of money--after all, they were there in me1! The reason is because having Kaiden or Garrus making a pass at Sheploo is potentially going to ****** some people off.

You need to recognize the trollspeak.

He gave your short, recycled reasons which are illogical when compared against anything else suggested. So just stop feeding him, please.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

I'm not a troll. Seriously, get that through your heads.

[MisterDyslexo]

centauri2002 wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Except they _already did it_. ME1 had bi romance dialogue for all 3 LI's. As of ME2, there are 9 total romance options. They don't have to make every single LI bisexual. I get the feeling that having Kaiden/Ash be bisexual for ME3 would be enough.

The reasons why they dummied out same-sex human LI's was never because of money--after all, they were there in me1! The reason is because having Kaiden or Garrus making a pass at Sheploo is potentially going to ****** some people off.

Absolutely. Just look at the media attention for the, in my opinion, tastefully done sex scene in ME1. Imagine how bad that would have been if the game had included the extra Ash/Kaiden romance options. D: Of course, I don't see that as much of an excuse but I can't blame them for fearing the backlash either. We're still making steps in the right direction so I can't complain too much.

I highly doubt any parents would reacted any differently as to whether they would buy the game depending on Fox News' pitch on the game.

What happened: Virtual rape at the push of a button.

What would've happened if there were s/s scenes: Virtaul rape by gays to convert your children at the push of a button.

Personally, I don't think any one of those irrational parents who listen to and believe all of the hyper-sensitized Fox News articles would go "Hmm... Well rape, sure I'll let my child do that. Oh wait, its gay rape?! OH HELL NO!!"

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Siansonea II wrote...

Commander_Adept wrote...

This thread needs to die. It's the same 4 posts over and over and over and over again.

I know, right? It has all the classic identifiers of a troll topic. An incendiary thread title, a contentious topic, and an unwillingness on the part of the OP to actually discuss the subject rationally. From what I gather, the underlying principle of this topic is "I just don't like it" or something or other, so it's basically a statement of opinion. Okay, that's your opinion, we get it. But the incendiary thread title (which could have been revised by the OP at any point) just keeps reeling in the people who are incensed at the temerity of the topic's title. Unfortunately, those people are trying to have a conversation about a subject they feel strongly about, and it is a complete waste of time. Why? Because the point of this thread is really just for the OP to state his opinion, not engage in meaningful discourse and possibly revisit some attitudes and preconceptions.

Unwillingness to discuss rationally? You never read the thread, did you? I made this thread to share my opinion and discuss this with the rest of you.

And YOU, you need to leave. I thought we were friends, but I see how it is. My opinion is different from yours, so apparently I'm a troll.

[MisterDyslexo]

With you now, another Public Service Announcement, from your friendly neighborhood forumite:



That is all my fellow forumites. Good night, and good luck.

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 23 mars 2011 - 10:16 .

[Siansonea]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

I'm not a troll. Seriously, get that through your heads.

And yet, the subject keeps coming up. Haven't you been banned for trolling several times? Maybe you don't think you're a troll, but a lot of people perceive your behavior to be classic Troll™ [patents pending]. Where there's smoke, there's fire, I think. Maybe you simply need to understand that your writing style  isn't coming across in the way you intend, and if that's the case, I hope you can make the necessary adjustments. But if I had to bet the farm, I'd probably say that you know exactly what you're doing, you're doing it deliberately, and you enjoy playing the victim when you're called on it. Not that I would prefer to bet the farm, mind you. Especially since I don't have a farm.

[Centauri2002]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Except they _already did it_. ME1 had bi romance dialogue for all 3 LI's. As of ME2, there are 9 total romance options. They don't have to make every single LI bisexual. I get the feeling that having Kaiden/Ash be bisexual for ME3 would be enough.

The reasons why they dummied out same-sex human LI's was never because of money--after all, they were there in me1! The reason is because having Kaiden or Garrus making a pass at Sheploo is potentially going to ****** some people off.

Absolutely. Just look at the media attention for the, in my opinion, tastefully done sex scene in ME1. Imagine how bad that would have been if the game had included the extra Ash/Kaiden romance options. D: Of course, I don't see that as much of an excuse but I can't blame them for fearing the backlash either. We're still making steps in the right direction so I can't complain too much.

I highly doubt any parents would reacted any differently as to whether they would buy the game depending on Fox News' pitch on the game.

What happened: Virtual rape at the push of a button.

What would've happened if there were s/s scenes: Virtaul rape by gays to convert your children at the push of a button.

Personally, I don't think any one of those irrational parents who listen to and believe all of the hyper-sensitized Fox News articles would go "Hmm... Well rape, sure I'll let my child do that. Oh wait, its gay rape?! OH HELL NO!!"

Wait, how did rape get brought into this?

My point wasn't about people who weren't bothered about the existing scenes suddenly not buying the game because of same sex scenes. I'm just saying the reaction would have been worse. Or more extreme, if you prefer.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

I'm not a troll. Seriously, get that through your heads.

And yet, the subject keeps coming up. Haven't you been banned for trolling several times? Maybe you don't think you're a troll, but a lot of people perceive your behavior to be classic Troll™ [patents pending]. Where there's smoke, there's fire, I think. Maybe you simply need to understand that your writing style  isn't coming across in the way you intend, and if that's the case, I hope you can make the necessary adjustments. But if I had to bet the farm, I'd probably say that you know exactly what you're doing, you're doing it deliberately, and you enjoy playing the victim when you're called on it. Not that I would prefer to bet the farm, mind you. Especially since I don't have a farm.

I'm not a troll, your assumptions are wrong. I am not trying to get a rise out of people. The only reason I told you to gtfo earlier was because YOU were insulting ME. if anything, YOU are a troll.

But enough about that. back to being on topic.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

centauri2002 wrote...

MisterDyslexo wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Except they _already did it_. ME1 had bi romance dialogue for all 3 LI's. As of ME2, there are 9 total romance options. They don't have to make every single LI bisexual. I get the feeling that having Kaiden/Ash be bisexual for ME3 would be enough.

The reasons why they dummied out same-sex human LI's was never because of money--after all, they were there in me1! The reason is because having Kaiden or Garrus making a pass at Sheploo is potentially going to ****** some people off.

Absolutely. Just look at the media attention for the, in my opinion, tastefully done sex scene in ME1. Imagine how bad that would have been if the game had included the extra Ash/Kaiden romance options. D: Of course, I don't see that as much of an excuse but I can't blame them for fearing the backlash either. We're still making steps in the right direction so I can't complain too much.

I highly doubt any parents would reacted any differently as to whether they would buy the game depending on Fox News' pitch on the game.

What happened: Virtual rape at the push of a button.

What would've happened if there were s/s scenes: Virtaul rape by gays to convert your children at the push of a button.

Personally, I don't think any one of those irrational parents who listen to and believe all of the hyper-sensitized Fox News articles would go "Hmm... Well rape, sure I'll let my child do that. Oh wait, its gay rape?! OH HELL NO!!"

Wait, how did rape get brought into this?

My point wasn't about people who weren't bothered about the existing scenes suddenly not buying the game because of same sex scenes. I'm just saying the reaction would have been worse. Or more extreme, if you prefer.

So we blame Fox News?

[Siansonea]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Commander_Adept wrote...

This thread needs to die. It's the same 4 posts over and over and over and over again.

I know, right? It has all the classic identifiers of a troll topic. An incendiary thread title, a contentious topic, and an unwillingness on the part of the OP to actually discuss the subject rationally. From what I gather, the underlying principle of this topic is "I just don't like it" or something or other, so it's basically a statement of opinion. Okay, that's your opinion, we get it. But the incendiary thread title (which could have been revised by the OP at any point) just keeps reeling in the people who are incensed at the temerity of the topic's title. Unfortunately, those people are trying to have a conversation about a subject they feel strongly about, and it is a complete waste of time. Why? Because the point of this thread is really just for the OP to state his opinion, not engage in meaningful discourse and possibly revisit some attitudes and preconceptions.

Unwillingness to discuss rationally? You never read the thread, did you? I made this thread to share my opinion and discuss this with the rest of you.

And YOU, you need to leave. I thought we were friends, but I see how it is. My opinion is different from yours, so apparently I'm a troll.

I actually don't require that my friends agree with me, only that they be able to discuss things rationally. And rational discussion is not only dispassionate, but it's a DISCUSSION. That means letting other people's ideas percolate, then subjecting them to analysis based on criteria that is as objective as possible. You clearly can't do that, don't want to do that, and don't see the value of doing that. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt in the past, I truly did, but based on your behavior I have to say that the community's perception of you is in all likelihood well-deserved.

[MisterDyslexo]

centauri2002 wrote...

MisterDyslexo wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Except they _already did it_. ME1 had bi romance dialogue for all 3 LI's. As of ME2, there are 9 total romance options. They don't have to make every single LI bisexual. I get the feeling that having Kaiden/Ash be bisexual for ME3 would be enough.

The reasons why they dummied out same-sex human LI's was never because of money--after all, they were there in me1! The reason is because having Kaiden or Garrus making a pass at Sheploo is potentially going to ****** some people off.

Absolutely. Just look at the media attention for the, in my opinion, tastefully done sex scene in ME1. Imagine how bad that would have been if the game had included the extra Ash/Kaiden romance options. D: Of course, I don't see that as much of an excuse but I can't blame them for fearing the backlash either. We're still making steps in the right direction so I can't complain too much.

I highly doubt any parents would reacted any differently as to whether they would buy the game depending on Fox News' pitch on the game.

What happened: Virtual rape at the push of a button.

What would've happened if there were s/s scenes: Virtaul rape by gays to convert your children at the push of a button.

Personally, I don't think any one of those irrational parents who listen to and believe all of the hyper-sensitized Fox News articles would go "Hmm... Well rape, sure I'll let my child do that. Oh wait, its gay rape?! OH HELL NO!!"

Wait, how did rape get brought into this?

My point wasn't about people who weren't bothered about the existing scenes suddenly not buying the game because of same sex scenes. I'm just saying the reaction would have been worse. Or more extreme, if you prefer.

You were saying "look at all of the media backlash from the Mass Effect 1 love scenes. Now imagine if they had gay scenes", or at least I perceived it that way. And that backlash, came most famously from Fox News, and the "virtual rape at the push of a button" line (or something along those lines, I'm paraphrasing slightly).

Oh, and isn't there a word for not standing by your product, in fear that some people won't buy your original vision. Sell-out, I believe? Lack of integrity and self-respect?

And seriously, do you want to be targeting an audience who would normally love your game to pieces, but will outright and vehemently deny any involvement with it because they disagree with your opinion that "x" group of people are considered equals?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Really? The OP lists a bunch of good reasons, wrote a damned disclaimer, and the people demanding this sort of nonsense keep shouting "troll" anyway. Who are the real trolls here?

How about this, they do the same thing they did with ME1 and ME2 and leave it at that! No cheapening the game and writing by making everybody bisexual. No pandering to this crowd who thinks they are entitled to a gay romance.

Oh and BTW, ME1 probably didn't have "romance dialogue" for everybody. In reality they probably just had both Shepard VAs record all of lines even those which wouldn't be used.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Commander_Adept wrote...

This thread needs to die. It's the same 4 posts over and over and over and over again.

I know, right? It has all the classic identifiers of a troll topic. An incendiary thread title, a contentious topic, and an unwillingness on the part of the OP to actually discuss the subject rationally. From what I gather, the underlying principle of this topic is "I just don't like it" or something or other, so it's basically a statement of opinion. Okay, that's your opinion, we get it. But the incendiary thread title (which could have been revised by the OP at any point) just keeps reeling in the people who are incensed at the temerity of the topic's title. Unfortunately, those people are trying to have a conversation about a subject they feel strongly about, and it is a complete waste of time. Why? Because the point of this thread is really just for the OP to state his opinion, not engage in meaningful discourse and possibly revisit some attitudes and preconceptions.

Unwillingness to discuss rationally? You never read the thread, did you? I made this thread to share my opinion and discuss this with the rest of you.

And YOU, you need to leave. I thought we were friends, but I see how it is. My opinion is different from yours, so apparently I'm a troll.

I actually don't require that my friends agree with me, only that they be able to discuss things rationally. And rational discussion is not only dispassionate, but it's a DISCUSSION. That means letting other people's ideas percolate, then subjecting them to analysis based on criteria that is as objective as possible. You clearly can't do that, don't want to do that, and don't see the value of doing that. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt in the past, I truly did, but based on your behavior I have to say that the community's perception of you is in all likelihood well-deserved.

And exactly what IS the community's perception of me?

[MisterDyslexo]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
So we blame Fox News?

Finally, something everybody can agree with! Blame Fox News for everything. Its not like they're not responsible for a lot of problems already.

[Centauri2002]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

You were saying "look at all of the media backlash from the Mass Effect 1 love scenes. Now imagine if they had gay scenes", or at least I perceived it that way. And that backlash, came most famously from Fox News, and the "virtual rape at the push of a button" line (or something along those lines, I'm paraphrasing slightly).

Oh, and isn't there a word for not standing by your product, in fear that some people won't buy your original vision. Sell-out, I believe? Lack of integrity and self-respect?

And seriously, do you want to be targeting an audience who would normally love your game to pieces, but will outright and vehemently deny any involvement with it because they disagree with your opinion that "x" group of people are considered equals?

Oh I think I may have given you the wrong impression. I absolutely don't agree with anyone giving into homophobia or any equality issues. That would effect me directly, after all. I was just saying what I thought happened. I haven't gone over all the media for the release of ME1, as I tend to stay away from it these days, but that was the impression I got from what I did see.

Modifié par centauri2002, 23 mars 2011 - 10:28 .

[MisterDyslexo]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
And exactly what IS the community's perception of me?

Let me narrow down everything I've read from you since page 25 or so (I started at page 15).

-I'm not a troll!

-GTFO jerk! (because that doesn't sound hypocritical at all)

-Read my other posts, ugh. Do I really need to say it again, in words clear enough for you to understand. I thought it was pretty easy to understand between my "GTFO"s and  my "I'm not a homophobe/troll, but..." comments.

Yeah, you're now officially a troll.

[Siansonea]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...


I'm not a troll, your assumptions are wrong. I am not trying to get a rise out of people. The only reason I told you to gtfo earlier was because YOU were insulting ME. if anything, YOU are a troll.

But enough about that. back to being on topic.

Then why is this thread's title still "LIs should NOT be bisexual in ME3!" instead of something more neutral-sounding? This topic title makes it sound like you don't think there should be bisexual love interest characters in ME3 at all, not that you object solely to the addition of same-sex options to existing characters. Deliberately misleading title, not that the actual intended sentiment is all that much better. I can think of several alternate titles that would cause much less controversy.

"Should ME1 or ME2 LIs be bisexual in ME3?"
"Bisexual LIs in ME3: A Discussion"
"LI sexuality in ME3"

Part of the problem is you don't really seem to have a real grasp of what bisexual and homosexual persons are actually like, and you've based all your opinions on stereotypes that you pepper into your responses as if you don't realize how offensive they are. But of course, we all know that you are fully aware of it when you do it. I know you're only 19, but give me a break, no one is THAT clueless in this day and age.

[MisterDyslexo]

centauri2002 wrote...
Oh I think I may have given you the wrong impression. I absolutely don't agree with anyone giving into homophobia or any equality issues. That would effect me directly, after all. I was just saying what I thought happened. I haven't gone over all the media for the release of ME1, as I tend to stay away from it these days, but that was the impression I got from what I did see.

For teh Fox News piece:


And for some more extra "teh lulz":