1677 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterDyslexo]

Jayman1337 wrote...

I know guys who wouldn't date bisexual women in real life. I wouldn't care myself, but that's just what their preferences are. It doesn't have anything to do with morals or being homophobic, it's just a trait they're attracted to.

I know it doesn't even compare to a game, just pointing out that they might be effected if they found out that their girlfriend they've been dating for awhile is also attracted to other women.

( I don't really care either way if they add it or not. Variety FTW I guess? )

Well this brings up the argument (and I'm using the name because it happened a while back):

"Should Kaidan be turned bisexual for Ryzaki even though it could ruin him for jeweledleah?" argument,

in which it comes down to "Well if you can't enjoy your game because of that its your fault. Let me play my game the way I want to." vs. "Well I don't see how it makes sense for 'x' to change, and it could just mess up the character. It won't let me play the way I want to."

[MisterDyslexo]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Here's something I feel the need to say. Tali and Garrus were not retconned. That's called character development.

Making them bi would be character develpment too.

We just had a discussion about that. Please read the posts after that.

You're right, and we proved it can be, and you agreed (or it could've been somebody else, if I'm mistaken). So why are we even still having this arguement.

[Pacifien]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
Yes, you did. To YOU. I do not find that believale or acceptable (not to be rude). If the LIs were bi from the beginning, I would not care (but they had to be romanceable for BOTH Shepards at the beginning, not just one through all three games, and then one just suddenly happens at the end).

If the romances were written differently depending on gender or when the romance started, then how is that unacceptable?

And if you object to the romance, how is its inclusion detrimental to your experience in the third game? Does its inclusion force you to then try it? If I play a female Shepard who has a romance with Tali in ME3, what does that do to your game?

[jeweledleah]

James2912 wrote...

Does anybody remember the long cutscene that would happen everytime you tried to talk to kaidan as male shep? I mean kaidan was caressing your body with his eyes, in fact shep was just a big slab of meat to him. Yo!

you mean the same cutscene he gets with femshep?  even femshep that is not romancing him?

please do not take copy/paste animation and tunr it into something more then what it is.

[TelexFerra]

L-l-l-look at you, Pacifen

bringing logic into this debate.

[Elite Midget]

Pacifen has spoken.

I see no reason for this to continue. If you can't understand what Pacifen said than there's no convinceing you.

Remember, Bioware is out to please as many Fans as it can at any given time and still make a profit.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Here's something I feel the need to say. Tali and Garrus were not retconned. That's called character development.

Making them bi would be character develpment too.

We just had a discussion about that. Please read the posts after that.

You're right, and we proved it can be, and you agreed (or it could've been somebody else, if I'm mistaken). So why are we even still having this arguement.

Actually, it wasn't proven. All I said is that we may have to agree to disagree.

[J. Finley]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Jayman1337 wrote...

I know guys who wouldn't date bisexual women in real life. I wouldn't care myself, but that's just what their preferences are. It doesn't have anything to do with morals or being homophobic, it's just a trait they're attracted to.

I know it doesn't even compare to a game, just pointing out that they might be effected if they found out that their girlfriend they've been dating for awhile is also attracted to other women.

( I don't really care either way if they add it or not. Variety FTW I guess? )

Well this brings up the argument (and I'm using the name because it happened a while back):

"Should Kaidan be turned bisexual for Ryzaki even though it could ruin him for jeweledleah?" argument,

in which it comes down to "Well if you can't enjoy your game because of that its your fault. Let me play my game the way I want to." vs. "Well I don't see how it makes sense for 'x' to change, and it could just mess up the character. It won't let me play the way I want to."

Good point. Gotta love the world we live in.

[jeweledleah]

oh and btw - Kaidan being turned bisexual wouldn't ruin the game for me IF it was done well and consistently, if I can see the underlining changes to his personality as something that progressed naturally and didn't just exist for specific malesheps only.

you know what ruined, really ruined that guy from awakenings for me? it wasn't his retconned sexuality. it was the inconstancy of his personality/preferences from game to game and the fact that he was completely rewritten.

ME team copy pastes dialog and animations all the time, they cannot develop believable friendship path. I cannot possibly see them write expanded sexuality with any degree of sensitivity or believability without resorting to "a wizard did it" and "that's how it always was and we don't care if you remember differently or can start u your old game and see it work out differently"

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Pacifien wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
Yes, you did. To YOU. I do not find that believale or acceptable (not to be rude). If the LIs were bi from the beginning, I would not care (but they had to be romanceable for BOTH Shepards at the beginning, not just one through all three games, and then one just suddenly happens at the end).

If the romances were written differently depending on gender or when the romance started, then how is that unacceptable?

And if you object to the romance, how is its inclusion detrimental to your experience in the third game? Does its inclusion force you to then try it? If I play a female Shepard who has a romance with Tali in ME3, what does that do to your game?

The problem is that you cannot please everyone. Stick with what is working, trying to please everyone never works and it will fall apart. You seem to be implying that I'm against others playing the game their way, which I'm not. I'm against last minute changes which in my opinion messes with consistency.

[J. Finley]

rynluna wrote...

Jayman1337 wrote...

I know it doesn't even compare to a game, just pointing out that they might be effected if they found out that their girlfriend they've been dating for awhile is also attracted to other women.

What really matters is what happens in their own playthrough.  Their ManShep can still have a str8 relationship with Miri and she is totally into him.  I'm well aware that my FemShep can go for Thane but I choose not to pursue that romance.  It doesn't hinder my enjoyment of the game even though I have that knowledge. 

You're right. I sometimes forget that Shepard's mind doesn't equal our own.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Elite Midget wrote...

Pacifen has spoken.

I see no reason for this to continue. If you can't understand what Pacifen said than there's no convinceing you.

Remember, Bioware is out to please as many Fans as it can at any given time and still make a profit.

Since when has trying to please everyone worked?

[MisterDyslexo]

Jayman1337 wrote...

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Jayman1337 wrote...

I know guys who wouldn't date bisexual women in real life. I wouldn't care myself, but that's just what their preferences are. It doesn't have anything to do with morals or being homophobic, it's just a trait they're attracted to.

I know it doesn't even compare to a game, just pointing out that they might be effected if they found out that their girlfriend they've been dating for awhile is also attracted to other women.

( I don't really care either way if they add it or not. Variety FTW I guess? )

Well this brings up the argument (and I'm using the name because it happened a while back):

"Should Kaidan be turned bisexual for Ryzaki even though it could ruin him for jeweledleah?" argument,

in which it comes down to "Well if you can't enjoy your game because of that its your fault. Let me play my game the way I want to." vs. "Well I don't see how it makes sense for 'x' to change, and it could just mess up the character. It won't let me play the way I want to."

Good point. Gotta love the world we live in.

Personally, I'm going to take the first side. I was able to shut-out all the Talimance stuff for a while, and then I saw all the "face" videos on youtube so now I don't have to.  I think somebody else can do the same. Here's one for jeweledleah and her Kaidan:

[James2912]

How would Kaiden have to change as a character in order for you to accept him as gay? How would being gay make him different?

[Elite Midget]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Pacifen has spoken.

I see no reason for this to continue. If you can't understand what Pacifen said than there's no convinceing you.

Remember, Bioware is out to please as many Fans as it can at any given time and still make a profit.

Since when has trying to please everyone worked?

It worked for Bioware since ME2 easily outsold ME1.

[Julie the bogan]

James2912 wrote...

How would Kaiden have to change as a character in order for you to accept him as gay? How would being gay make him different?

It wouldn't, but maybe not gay, bi.. wouldn't want to invoke the wraith of hundreds of Kaidan fans

[J. Finley]

Personally, I'm going to take the first side. I was able to shut-out all
the Talimance stuff for a while, and then I saw all the "face" videos
on youtube so now I don't have to.

Do you mean to accept the other side in a humorous way or something? Funny vid btw.

[Gibb_Shepard]

They won't, ME doesn't do gay.

[lovgreno]

Ryzaki wrote...
Retcon. 

Yes retcons happens all the time, especialy in stories that are developed over a long time. Many things in ME2, like heatsinks, Failberus and Tali being a LI, was not planned when they made ME1. For each new sequell the developers must look at what worked with the older products, listen to fan feedback and make a new concept. Then these new ideas must be applied to old content like characters for example.

So retcons are part of the process. Characters will change, sometimes in a way we don't like. The question is more like this: Will characters who previously showed no visual interest in the same gender becomming more openly interested in Shepard be a practical way of making the product better for more old and new costumers? I belive it have the potential to work.

[Quole]

Julie Shepard wrote...

James2912 wrote...

How would Kaiden have to change as a character in order for you to accept him as gay? How would being gay make him different?

It wouldn't, but maybe not gay, bi.. wouldn't want to invoke the wraith of hundreds of Kaidan fans

Kaidan has fans?






jk

Modifié par Quole, 24 mars 2011 - 05:27 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

James2912 wrote...

How would Kaiden have to change as a character in order for you to accept him as gay? How would being gay make him different?

I really like all the characters. They've been my favorite characters for the past four years. How would being gay make them different? Here's how I see it (this is an example, not real):

I'm a straight male, and I have a friend of the same sex who I am very close to. As far as I and he have known, we are both straight. But one day, he announces that he has romantic feelings for me and he's been gay all along. Would this change things? For me, yes it would, because now (not because he's gay) it's a different relationship.

[Elite Midget]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

They won't, ME doesn't do gay.

You're kidding right?

So you mean to tell me my FemShep didn't sleep with Liara or Kelly and that all those woman hitting on her were implying something else?

[MisterDyslexo]

Jayman1337 wrote...

Personally, I'm going to take the first side. I was able to shut-out all
the Talimance stuff for a while, and then I saw all the "face" videos
on youtube so now I don't have to.

Do you mean to accept the other side in a humorous way or something? Funny vid btw.

You know, it does help a bit. I mean, its just a game. We're all just arguing more passionately over a technicality than the character itself at this point.