1677 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Nyoka wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
1) I'm saying that he would be too much like Zevran.

2) It's too late because it is TWO games in. Making everyone bi now would just be awkward and won't look right. And for the reasons I said in my original post.

Who's Zevran? What does he have to do with Mass Effect?

Again, it's not about being bisexual. It's about being attracted to Shepard, depending of your profile. That is, they wouldn't be bisexual, but heterosexual or gay depending of what Shepard is in each different profile. This does not takes away anything in the characters because they are not defined by their orientation, but by their personality and background.

By the way, why do you think everyone is heterosexual? Just because they didn't openly try to romance your character? "This man doesn't seem to be interested in me. Therefore he can't possibly be gay or bisexual, because if he were, he would totally be drooling all over me!" I hope you see what you are implying here.

Characters didn't explicitly reject same sex relationships, so they are not being contradictory if they are open to the possibility in ME3.

1) Well, they don't come off as gay to me.

2) Jack rejected Femshep.

[Naltair]

Most people consider most other people heterosexual, normally, until they receive evidence to the contrary it is kind of how we as human beings construct ideas about others around us. Just like I consider most people to not want to shank me in the face until I receive evidence to the contrary. It is kind of why when describing someone we often add exceptions if we feel they are pertinent for making a more accurate description.

For example:

Did you see that girl with the red hair? (Red being an uncommon color, makes it easier to remember said person.)

Hey did you talk to that gay guy at the club? (Gay not in a derogatory sense, but to signify that said person was of that orientation, which is also not common.)

[Siansonea]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Just because she wasen't a choice does'nt change the fact that Jack is Bi.

coolair74 wrote...

No, no he doesnt.  Why would he just come out to you after 4 years of running around.  Shepard isnt gay, that is the foremost important fact.  For 2 games there hasnt been anything that he has done that would lead toward him being gay. He is a manly man and likes the girls. Done and done. Dont mess with Alex P Keation Shepard.

No, no she doesn't. Why would Tali just come out to you after 2 years of Shepard being dead. Shepard isn't a Quarian, that is the foremost important fact. For ME there hasen't been anything that he has done that would lean toweard him being into Tali or her into he. He's a manly man and showed no interest in Quarians in ME1. Done and done. Don't mess up Male Shepard.

Yet we ALL know what happened in ME2, don't we?

Apples and Oranges my friend. Tali is a girl and Shepard likes girls. So it wasnt a stretch to include this in ME2.
Thats like saying he never said he liked black girls. He likes all girls. He doesnt want buttsechs.

Again, Shepard ISNT gay. Done and done. You cant argue that.

You're right, your Shepard (did you actually name him **** Shepard, or is that just his personality?) isn't gay. Done and done. I can't argue that. But my Shepards aren't homophobic twits with poor reasoning skills. Well, not all of them anyway. I actually do have some Shepards that are stupid. The thing is though, no one person's idea of who Shepard is trumps every other one. I don't think you young kids understand that though, so I won't belabor the point, which has already been made a million times on these forums by persons much more erudite and eloquent than myself.

So anyone who doesn't want the current LIs to be bi in ME3 is a homophobe?

You know, if that's what I wanted to say, I would have said THAT. Don't try to rephrase what I'm saying. Let me speak for myself.

[Siansonea]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
*snip*

*snip*

1) Well, they don't come off as gay to me.

Well, that's hardly scientific. And way to stereotype there, dude.

[Naltair]

I am still trying to reconcile this notion that Jack was once with a woman or women, she should always be bi and willing to be with another woman? is her rejecting female Shepard no allowed? I mean Samara rejects both genders should that be retconned too?

[coolair74]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Just because she wasen't a choice does'nt change the fact that Jack is Bi.

coolair74 wrote...

No, no he doesnt.  Why would he just come out to you after 4 years of running around.  Shepard isnt gay, that is the foremost important fact.  For 2 games there hasnt been anything that he has done that would lead toward him being gay. He is a manly man and likes the girls. Done and done. Dont mess with Alex P Keation Shepard.

No, no she doesn't. Why would Tali just come out to you after 2 years of Shepard being dead. Shepard isn't a Quarian, that is the foremost important fact. For ME there hasen't been anything that he has done that would lean toweard him being into Tali or her into he. He's a manly man and showed no interest in Quarians in ME1. Done and done. Don't mess up Male Shepard.

Yet we ALL know what happened in ME2, don't we?

Apples and Oranges my friend. Tali is a girl and Shepard likes girls. So it wasnt a stretch to include this in ME2.
Thats like saying he never said he liked black girls. He likes all girls. He doesnt want buttsechs.

Again, Shepard ISNT gay. Done and done. You cant argue that.

You're right, your Shepard (did you actually name him **** Shepard, or is that just his personality?) isn't gay. Done and done. I can't argue that. But my Shepards aren't homophobic twits with poor reasoning skills. Well, not all of them anyway. I actually do have some Shepards that are stupid. The thing is though, no one person's idea of who Shepard is trumps every other one. I don't think you young kids understand that though, so I won't belabor the point, which has already been made a million times on these forums by persons much more erudite and eloquent than myself.

So anyone who doesn't want the current LIs to be bi in ME3 is a homophobe?

Yeah thats common with stupids, you disagree with their agenda and youre a homophobe. Homophobe would imply that Im scared of gays, I can tell you this , the only thing I fear is Family Guy being cancelled again.

But more to the point, its not your Shepard or my Shepard, its just Shepard, You are playing the game and making choices based on a set number of facts. One fact is that HE ISNT GAY.   Its kinda like playing a game and we shall choose , John McClain from Die Hard. You are playing as him.  Guess what ?  No gay romance options, HE ISNT GAY EITHER.  Im tryin gto think of a male protaginist that is gay/bi but I cant think of one, but if there is one and there was a game based on him, then you have the buttsechs you want!

[Naltair]

yorkj86 wrote...

Naltair wrote...

I am still trying to reconcile this notion that Jack was once with a woman or women, she should always be bi and willing to be with another woman? is her rejecting female Shepard no allowed? I mean Samara rejects both genders should that be retconned too?

Jack once being with a woman could be indicative of experimentation, but not bisexuality, or romantic/sexual nuance, such as heteroromantic bisexuality.

That is basically the point I am trying to drive home.

I know a few girls/women who make out with each other at parties and yet they all have boyfriends and they only ever make out at parties.

Modifié par Naltair, 22 mars 2011 - 05:02 .

[Naltair]

Nyoka wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
1) Well, they don't come off as gay to me.

2) Jack rejected Femshep.

Because obviously every gay man in the world should feel attracted to you and say it openly, probably by throwing their underwear at yoy while dancing I Will Survive. Obviously.

Jack rejected Femshep. Therefore, Thane shouldn't be able to be romanced by Sheploo, even though Thane never said anything about it in ME2. Very logical.

Susan Sontag married a man, had a child and later she had a divorce and had a relationship with Anne Leibowitz.

So basically romance and relationships are complex.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
*snip*

*snip*

1) Well, they don't come off as gay to me.

Well, that's hardly scientific. And way to stereotype there, dude.

How am I stereotyping?

I was asked whetther I thought they were heterosexual or not.

[coolair74]

Nyoka wrote...

RenownedRyan wrote...
The problem there is that, at the end of the day, I didn't romance anyone in ME2.  I romanced Liara in ME1.  My other files have had no romance.  I enjoy the game just as well with no romances.  I dispute the argument that without video game romances people are somehow slighted or they cannot appreciate or enjoy the experience.

So you would rather completely remove romance from the game rather than allowing same sex relationships.

Or did you mean "not romancing is just fine, so gay people can play the game without romancing anyone"? Is that what you're saying? If that's the case, well, you might as well going one step beyond and call Mass effect a straight only game. No gays allowed. I you don't like it, you can git out.

Its prolly because Shepard isnt gay. Maybe they'll make a game where you play as Ricky Martin, happy then?

[Siansonea]

I don't know why we keep talking about Jack specifically. Yes, she blew off Shepard, but we don't know WHY she blew her off. Maybe the girl she ran with got to her on a very deep level, and since then Jack's been too afraid to let herself care about a woman. Maybe she thinks boys are easier to love 'em and leave 'em. There are all sorts of things we don't know about these characters, and among those undiscovered gems of information could be that some of them actually could go that way under the right circumstances. It's certainly no more preposterous than having Garrus, pretty much a giant cricket, want to do the nasty with Shepard. Who knows if turians even have a peepee? The thing is, good writing can make a lot of things work that maybe don't sound very logical at first glance, and for my part I thought the Garrus and Tali romances were done pretty well, even though I didn't necessarily want them. Having one or two former acquaintances come up to Shepard and say "you know, I don't know if you'd be interested, but I've been thinking of you differently lately, and I don't know, I think I want to see where it goes" or somesuch (I'm not a writer) would not 'break immersion' for me any more than 'reach and flexibility' did.

[Almostfaceman]

coolair74 wrote...

But more to the point, its not your Shepard or my Shepard, its just Shepard, You are playing the game and making choices based on a set number of facts. One fact is that HE ISNT GAY.   Its kinda like playing a game and we shall choose , John McClain from Die Hard. You are playing as him.  Guess what ?  No gay romance options, HE ISNT GAY EITHER.  Im tryin gto think of a male protaginist that is gay/bi but I cant think of one, but if there is one and there was a game based on him, then you have the buttsechs you want!

Jack Harkness from Torchwood would be a gay (maybe bi) male protagonist, so yes if you were playing him instead of Bioware Shepard - buttsechs or whatever.  Point made.

[Naltair]

coolair74 wrote...

Its prolly because Shepard isnt gay. Maybe they'll make a game where you play as Ricky Martin, happy then?

I think sir you really need to rleax on the Shepard is not gay, obviously Shepard can be gay there is just no option for Male Shepard, yet, or at all.

But Shepard can be gay or at least engage in a same sex encounter.

[Alienmorph]

I've got nothing against bi or homosex LIs, but they should be new ones... it would be silly if some of the ME2's LIs suddently become bisex in ME3.

[Siansonea]

coolair74 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Just because she wasen't a choice does'nt change the fact that Jack is Bi.

coolair74 wrote...

No, no he doesnt.  Why would he just come out to you after 4 years of running around.  Shepard isnt gay, that is the foremost important fact.  For 2 games there hasnt been anything that he has done that would lead toward him being gay. He is a manly man and likes the girls. Done and done. Dont mess with Alex P Keation Shepard.

No, no she doesn't. Why would Tali just come out to you after 2 years of Shepard being dead. Shepard isn't a Quarian, that is the foremost important fact. For ME there hasen't been anything that he has done that would lean toweard him being into Tali or her into he. He's a manly man and showed no interest in Quarians in ME1. Done and done. Don't mess up Male Shepard.

Yet we ALL know what happened in ME2, don't we?

Apples and Oranges my friend. Tali is a girl and Shepard likes girls. So it wasnt a stretch to include this in ME2.
Thats like saying he never said he liked black girls. He likes all girls. He doesnt want buttsechs.

Again, Shepard ISNT gay. Done and done. You cant argue that.

You're right, your Shepard (did you actually name him **** Shepard, or is that just his personality?) isn't gay. Done and done. I can't argue that. But my Shepards aren't homophobic twits with poor reasoning skills. Well, not all of them anyway. I actually do have some Shepards that are stupid. The thing is though, no one person's idea of who Shepard is trumps every other one. I don't think you young kids understand that though, so I won't belabor the point, which has already been made a million times on these forums by persons much more erudite and eloquent than myself.

So anyone who doesn't want the current LIs to be bi in ME3 is a homophobe?

Yeah thats common with stupids, you disagree with their agenda and youre a homophobe. Homophobe would imply that Im scared of gays, I can tell you this , the only thing I fear is Family Guy being cancelled again.

But more to the point, its not your Shepard or my Shepard, its just Shepard, You are playing the game and making choices based on a set number of facts. One fact is that HE ISNT GAY.   Its kinda like playing a game and we shall choose , John McClain from Die Hard. You are playing as him.  Guess what ?  No gay romance options, HE ISNT GAY EITHER.  Im tryin gto think of a male protaginist that is gay/bi but I cant think of one, but if there is one and there was a game based on him, then you have the buttsechs you want!

Hating gays is also covered by the term homophobia. But let's not debate semantics, because let's face it, in the battle of wits, you're the unarmed man.

[NanQuan]

coolair74 wrote...

NanQuan wrote...

I don't understand the use of DA2 as an example of bisexual relationships. The characters aren't bisexual in DA2. Some characters change sexuality based on the player's profile. For example, If you play as male, Anders will be homosexual and if you play as female he will be heterosexual. Then the player has the OPTION to romance him. You however, are not forced to and he will not push the issue unless you pick to flirt with him. Hell, I flirted with him in DA2 just to keep my options open, but when I decided to say no thanks to Anders, he never pressed the issue again. There was just no longer any romantic tension. And I thought that worked just fine. The closest I ever got to unwanted advances in DA2 was from Isabella, even though I never chose to flirt with her, but come on - it's isabella. That's to be expected.

I also disagree that DA2 had cheaper romances than ME2. In my opinion, the only relationship between BOTH games that offers any real closure is Liara's and she is bisexual. I'm not saying the romances are bad, and there is variety so that people will be pleased, but I see no real difference between DA2 and ME1&2 romances with the exception of Liara (and only Liara if we count LotSB; without that it is the same as the others). And that's really only because her's is the most fleshed out and it doesn't hurt that it has the most content thus far.

My point is, that you shouldn't really be afraid of bisexual love interests in ME3 because if they are like DA2 (like you said) then they won't be bisexual. They'll change sexuality depending on your shep's gender. And if it's done like DA2, then they won't make advances at you unless you also make advances at them. So there won't be a problem because if you don't want Garrus or whoever to be homosexual, then he won't be because you won't flirt with him.

Liara is not bi, she is anything sexual.  She really isnt a she, more of a she/he that looks like a she but can be a he ,at least biologically, if the situation calls for it.

But you can use whatever logic you want.  Anders wasnt gay before and now he is all the sudden?  His Bio in Awakining said , he only wants a warm fire, a pretty girl and something to shoot lightning at. That is what we dont want for ME3.

HEAR ME BIOWARE!

Since we have not seen a species with more than two sexualities, i.e. male and female, then bisexual would still apply to Liara, regardless of whether she herself is monogendered. If you want to have all your bases covered, we can refer to her as omnisexual, but that seems pointless when bisexual will suffice.

As for Anders, I did not play Awakening, so if he was clearly heterosexual and it is something that defined him, as you suggest, then hey you found an inconsistency between the games. My point, however, was that Anders being heterosexual or homosexual depending on gender in no way detracted from my playthrough. Now, to be fair, I can see how in some cases, such as garrus, it has been suggested that he is straight and for him to suddenly not be would be weird.  And if you want to keep it that way, then you simply wouldn't flirt with him or make advances as a male shep, correct?  He also never indicates in the game that he is 1) into humans or 2) into femshep, but if you flirt with him then you can initiate a romance anyway. I didn't flirt with him with my femshep, so in my playthrough, Garrus isn't interested in shepard, even if she is a woman.  simple as that.

[coolair74]

Siansonea II wrote...

Having one or two former acquaintances come up to Shepard and say "you know, I don't know if you'd be interested, but I've been thinking of you differently lately, and I don't know, I think I want to see where it goes."

Then Shepard says " Sorry but Im NOT GAY, get the hell back down to the forward batteries!"

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Nyoka wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
1) Well, they don't come off as gay to me.

2) Jack rejected Femshep.

Because obviously every gay man in the world should feel attracted to you and say it openly, probably by throwing their underwear at you while dancing I Will Survive. Obviously.

Jack rejected Femshep. Therefore, Thane shouldn't be able to be romanced by Sheploo, even though Thane never said anything about it in ME2. Very logical.

Susan Sontag married a man, had a child and later she had a divorce and had a relationship with Annie Leibowitz.

1) I'm not going to argue this anymore

2) What? Thane isn't gay. He never was. So because he didn't say anything he's possibly bi? I'm straight, I don't say anything about me being straight, and I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN STRAIGHT.

3) Who?

[Siansonea]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
*snip*

*snip*

1) Well, they don't come off as gay to me.

Well, that's hardly scientific. And way to stereotype there, dude.

How am I stereotyping?

I was asked whetther I thought they were heterosexual or not.

You can't really be that dense. You can't really think that homosexuals and bisexuals all have behavioral traits that allow you to determine their sexuality from a few conversations. You can't really think that, can you? When you say "they don't come off gay to me", you are saying that gay and bisexual people ALWAYS behave in a way that allows you to know that without them telling you. And I am telling you, that is simply not the case in the real world, no matter how finely-tuned you think your "gaydar" is. You will find this out for yourself soon enough, I'm sure.

[Naltair]

Anders is pretty heterosexual in Awakening, the turn around in DA2 was odd. But Anders is almost a different person in DA2 anyways, for a number of reasons.

His character is fairly inconsistent, intentional or not.  To be honest he might as well have been a totally new character he is almost nothing like he was Awakenings.

Modifié par Naltair, 22 mars 2011 - 05:12 .