1677 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Pacifien wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
Halo 3 ODST was something that shouldn't even have been tried (my opinion).

Having not played the game, your example fails to demonstrate anything to me.

But I do see plenty of people not happy with changes made in Dragon Age 2 or even Mass Effect 2, how BioWare changed elements from the first games that should have been better left untouched. I like innovation, however, so I appreciate a developer who tries to do something different and then either succeeds or learns from their mistakes. Telling a BioWare writer that you don't think they can pull off a successful same sex relationship for pre-existing romance interest in the Mass Effect series should be taken as a challenge to me.

You also haven't explained your examples in an earlier post, so they fail to demostrate anything to me as well.

I like innovation, too, but some things are better left for a new venture (like another ME game, not ME3).

[Nashiktal]

Ryzaki wrote...

Nashiktal wrote..
Yes we get you think she acted like a child. You have said that in practically all your posts.

Anyways I agree in the regard that you never know what you will face, and as such need to be prepared. However you are failing to take into account the many times she has gotten sick, or face suit breaches. (come now she has been shot and blown to hell by everything from rockets, bullets, mechs, gunships) and has performed tasks asked of her just fine.

So far all she has shown that the immediate effects are mild symptons that she operates just fine with. Headaches, sinus problems, and fever. All of which plenty of people cope just fine with for work, and one that Tali can apparently do during missions with shep.

None of those times were she on a suicide mission. None of those times was she being fired at by all sides without people protecting her. Even in her recruitment mission you see her being protected by her squad (and being a horrible leader). 

Operating at a safe enviornment. We don't actually see her sick when she's in combat. We see her sick when she's on board the normandy and when she's in a closed area with Geth clamoring at the door. 

People protecting her? Everytime you take her out on a mission she is practically the first to be shot to *Death,* Also while she was the *Project* leader, she in no way dictated how the squad would operate. She told Kal or whoever was in charge what she needed to do (Get to observitory to obtain target data) and Kal or whoever was the military lead would work to get it done. That has no bearing on her ability to lead.

When you first meet her on the other hand...


Operating on a safe environement? The moment she tells you she is sick, you can take her straight into combat. It has NO effect on her ability to operate at all. Even while sick she works on the engines for the normandy, and if you hadnt until that point, can even upgrade the shields on your ship! The way you are talking, since Tali getting sick is such a big risk, the smart thing to do would be not to even bring her along considering her apparently frail self. (Which is something I would agree with, if not for the evidence to her hardiness given otherwise.)

[Pacifien]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
You also haven't explained your examples in an earlier post, so they fail to demostrate anything to me as well.

You need to point those out so I know what you don't understand.

[Nashiktal]

bobobo878 wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
I had thought the icon representation used by Dragon Age 2 worked well enough, but I read how guys say Anders still hits on a male Hawke. My gut reaction is to think they've clicked on a flirtatious option in spite of my better self saying I should simply give them the benefit of the doubt that the system failed them somehow in avoiding unwanted advances. I don't read about Fenris hitting on the guys, so it half works.

Anders never hit on me either, unless someone submits a video of Anders flirting with MaleHawke without Hawke using a flirt option, I'm not going to believe it happened.

Oh it happens. Its when you talk to Ander in his clinic, right after he tells either Isabella or another random person not to use his magic to cure sex diseases.

I can't remember which conversatin options you have to pick... but depending on what you choose. (No flirting icons used) Anders will hit on you, and you have three options. Accept his feelings, a three arrow choice, stop the romance there.

I chose stop the romance, and BAM he flips out on me. Claims im trying to control how he thinks.

[Ryzaki]

Nashiktal wrote..
People protecting her? Everytime you take her out on a mission she is practically the first to be shot to *Death,* Also while she was the *Project* leader, she in no way dictated how the squad would operate. She told Kal or whoever was in charge what she needed to do (Get to observitory to obtain target data) and Kal or whoever was the military lead would work to get it done. That has no bearing on her ability to lead.

Shepard is always leader in that case. Anytime she wasn't with Shepard she seems to get her squad killed or needs to be rescued. 

Saren - needed to be saved. 

Freedom's Progress - A bunch of her people killed

(I forgot the other planet's name) - Everyone (except perhaps that one guy if Shep saves him) killed. 

She's a terrible leader. She inspires little confidence and doesn't seem to be able to control those under her command. 

Yes it does. If those underneath you don't respect you enough to listen to you or you can't control them...well you're a bad leader. There's a reason she fails as a squad leader. 

When you first meet her on the other hand...


Operating on a safe environement? The moment she tells you she is sick, you can take her straight into combat. It has NO effect on her ability to operate at all. Even while sick she works on the engines for the normandy, and if you hadnt until that point, can even upgrade the shields on your ship! The way you are talking, since Tali getting sick is such a big risk, the smart thing to do would be not to even bring her along considering her apparently frail self. (Which is something I would agree with, if not for the evidence to her hardiness given otherwise.)

Gameplay > Story segregation. For the same reason that you can have Jack use shockwave on a bunch of husks surronding Miranda. Same reason Miranda's skintight outfit offers similar protection to Shepard's hardsuit. 

Once again have you every been in a fight? Have you ever been dizzy during it? Compare being dizzy in a fight (where you know it can be fatal) to being dizzy in a safe enviornment where you can just shake your head and continue. It's a large difference. 

I don't bring Tali into combat most times. But for the most part Shep is part of an inflitrator unit. You have no idea what's that the CB. For all you know you could just get swarmed (which you do for the most part). She's already at risk during normal battle. Why add to it for sex?

Edit: Sorry on FP she has a couple of survivors .

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mars 2011 - 08:20 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Pacifien wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
You also haven't explained your examples in an earlier post, so they fail to demostrate anything to me as well.

You need to point those out so I know what you don't understand.

When you said this:

"Now there's Anders from the Dragon Age series who was clearly not
written as a homosexual character in Awakening, but can be romanced by a
male Hawke in Dragon Age 2. That romance worked for me about as well as
the romance with a female Hawke.

There was also Willow from the
Buffy series who came out as a lesbian after we'd already seen her in a
heterosexual relationship in that series. That worked."

[Pacifien]

Nashiktal wrote...
Oh it happens. Its when you talk to Ander in his clinic, right after he tells either Isabella or another random person not to use his magic to cure sex diseases.

I can't remember which conversatin options you have to pick... but depending on what you choose. (No flirting icons used) Anders will hit on you, and you have three options. Accept his feelings, a three arrow choice, stop the romance there.

I chose stop the romance, and BAM he flips out on me. Claims im trying to control how he thinks.

I've seen enough comments on it to go from disbelief to benefit of the doubt that it occurs, but I myself never had it happen even though I have a playthrough with a male Hawke, a full friendship with Anders, and no flirtations from him.... Then again, maybe I interpreted something as benign that others took as flirtatious. Need youtube video!

Still, it doesn't happen with Fenris, so it's an oversight in the system, maybe? Then again, Fenris enters romance somewhat kicking and screaming that it'll mess with his broody mojo.

I'm so off topic now...

[Nashiktal]

Ryzaki wrote...

Nashiktal wrote..
People protecting her? Everytime you take her out on a mission she is practically the first to be shot to *Death,* Also while she was the *Project* leader, she in no way dictated how the squad would operate. She told Kal or whoever was in charge what she needed to do (Get to observitory to obtain target data) and Kal or whoever was the military lead would work to get it done. That has no bearing on her ability to lead.

Shepard is always leader in that case. Anytime she wasn't with Shepard she seems to get her squad killed or needs to be rescued. 

Saren - needed to be saved. 

Freedom's Progress - everyone killed

(I forgot the other planet's name) - Everyone (except perhaps that one guy if Shep saves him) killed. 

She's a terrible leader. She inspires little confidence and doesn't seem to be able to control those under her command. 

Yes it does. If those underneath you don't respect you enough to listen to you or you can't control them...well you're a bad leader. There's a reason she fails as a squad leader. 

When you first meet her on the other hand...


Operating on a safe environement? The moment she tells you she is sick, you can take her straight into combat. It has NO effect on her ability to operate at all. Even while sick she works on the engines for the normandy, and if you hadnt until that point, can even upgrade the shields on your ship! The way you are talking, since Tali getting sick is such a big risk, the smart thing to do would be not to even bring her along considering her apparently frail self. (Which is something I would agree with, if not for the evidence to her hardiness given otherwise.)

Gameplay > Story segregation. For the same reason that you can have Jack use shockwave on a bunch of husks surronding Miranda. Same reason Miranda's skintight outfit offers similar protection to Shepard's hardsuit. 

Once again have you every been in a fight? Have you ever been dizzy during it? Compare being dizzy in a fight (where you know it can be fatal) to being dizzy in a safe enviornment where you can just shake your head and continue. It's a large difference. 

Alright now I can agree with the other poster that you do not read posts. Re-read my point about the Tali leader situation, I wasn't saying she was a good leader, I was saying you chose the wrong example. When Tali was on the planet with the Geth, she was the Civilian lead researcher. She was there with the scientists to get the data, while the Marines protected her.

Her job? Point out targets of Value. (In this case she needed Data at observitory. That was the mission, get data on the star.) Then the Military squad guarding her and the team, work out how to get there. In this mission it wasn't Tali's leadership at fault, hell it wasnt even the military's leadership at fault. A platoon of geth fell from the sky! The military did their mission, and so did Tali.

And why even bring up the Saren thing? That is not a leadership issue, and as shown by the Cutscene before shep gets there she can handle herself in a fight. She might die if you don't get there in time, but she takes some of them down before she does. (What does that even have to do with her getting sick, or leadership?)

And even taking all this into account I actually AGREED with you about her leadership. She isn't a leader, she is a technician. when Tali is a leader she isn't actually a military leader, she was leading a group of hotheads to find and save a fellow Quarian. If they were expecting full on combat they would have sent a squad leader. Which they did later on in the game!

And if we are going Gameplay over story, than its over. The gameplay chose to make Tali operate perfectly no matter what, during the game. Suicide mission or not. 

[Ryzaki]

Pacifien wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...
Oh it happens. Its when you talk to Ander in his clinic, right after he tells either Isabella or another random person not to use his magic to cure sex diseases.

I can't remember which conversatin options you have to pick... but depending on what you choose. (No flirting icons used) Anders will hit on you, and you have three options. Accept his feelings, a three arrow choice, stop the romance there.

I chose stop the romance, and BAM he flips out on me. Claims im trying to control how he thinks.

I've seen enough comments on it to go from disbelief to benefit of the doubt that it occurs, but I myself never had it happen even though I have a playthrough with a male Hawke, a full friendship with Anders, and no flirtations from him.... Then again, maybe I interpreted something as benign that others took as flirtatious. Need youtube video!

Still, it doesn't happen with Fenris, so it's an oversight in the system, maybe? Then again, Fenris enters romance somewhat kicking and screaming that it'll mess with his broody mojo.

I'm so off topic now...

LOL at the bolded. 

Though yes Anders does try to jump in your pants. But he does this to both female and male Hawke. I'm not sure why male Hawke is the only one mentioned. 

[Pacifien]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
You also haven't explained your examples in an earlier post, so they fail to demostrate anything to me as well.

You need to point those out so I know what you don't understand.

When you said this:

"Now there's Anders from the Dragon Age series who was clearly not
written as a homosexual character in Awakening, but can be romanced by a
male Hawke in Dragon Age 2. That romance worked for me about as well as
the romance with a female Hawke.

There was also Willow from the
Buffy series who came out as a lesbian after we'd already seen her in a
heterosexual relationship in that series. That worked."

You wanted proof that changing a character's sexuality worked. One example is Anders, from a game I assumed you played since you brought it up in the OP. I wouldn't have thought explanation was necessary. Note that I didn't say the romance was a great success on par with the ME series, as you made it clear you felt otherwise. I simply pointed out that it works equally well despite gender for me.

The other example is a character from a series who was shown in a heterosexual relationship only to be outed as a lesbian later on. You obviously haven't seen Buffy, which you could have mentioned if the example didn't work for you. Then all I can say is that you either need to a) watch the show or take my word for it that the lesbian relationship was a success with the fans.

I suppose I could mention Dumbledore in that the revelation of his sexuality adds layers to some of his comments about a character made during the Harry Potter series, but doesn't actually mean anything as far as romance is concerned. It is, at least, a revelation about a character many interpreted as straight.

[Nashiktal]

Pacifien wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...
Oh it happens. Its when you talk to Ander in his clinic, right after he tells either Isabella or another random person not to use his magic to cure sex diseases.

I can't remember which conversatin options you have to pick... but depending on what you choose. (No flirting icons used) Anders will hit on you, and you have three options. Accept his feelings, a three arrow choice, stop the romance there.

I chose stop the romance, and BAM he flips out on me. Claims im trying to control how he thinks.

I've seen enough comments on it to go from disbelief to benefit of the doubt that it occurs, but I myself never had it happen even though I have a playthrough with a male Hawke, a full friendship with Anders, and no flirtations from him.... Then again, maybe I interpreted something as benign that others took as flirtatious. Need youtube video!

Still, it doesn't happen with Fenris, so it's an oversight in the system, maybe? Then again, Fenris enters romance somewhat kicking and screaming that it'll mess with his broody mojo.

I'm so off topic now...

Oh no its a completely flirtatious moment, especially because you HAVE to either accept or deny the relationship. The neutral middle choice leaves it too open, and my male hawke was chasing after Merril in that game.

I can't upload a video without restarting a new game, and rushing toward that moment. But if you play, get to the STD cutscene with anders, (saving before you do) you should be able to activate that scene. I just wish I could remember which conversation tree you have to follow to get there.

[Ryzaki]

Nashiktal wrote...
Alright now I can agree with the other poster that you do not read posts. Re-read my point about the Tali leader situation, I wasn't saying she was a good leader, I was saying you chose the wrong example. When Tali was on the planet with the Geth, she was the Civilian lead researcher. She was there with the scientists to get the data, while the Marines protected her.

Her job? Point out targets of Value. (In this case she needed Data at observitory. That was the mission, get data on the star.) Then the Military squad guarding her and the team, work out how to get there. In this mission it wasn't Tali's leadership at fault, hell it wasnt even the military's leadership at fault. A platoon of geth fell from the sky! The military did their mission, and so did Tali.

Actually they didn't. Per usual Shep janitor did the militaries job. Not that it's anything new. Tali got the data but she'd have kicked the bucket if Shep hadn't come along. 

As for civilian lead researcher why would Miranda then bring up her "getting her entire squad killed on Haerstrom?" if she wasn't the leader? 

And why even bring up the Saren thing? That is not a leadership issue, and as shown by the Cutscene before shep gets there she can handle herself in a fight. She might die if you don't get there in time, but she takes some of them down before she does. (What does that even have to do with her getting sick, or leadership?)

Nothing. I'm trying to show how she isn't exactly the most wise person to begin with. 

As for handling herself in a fight that's my point. She can. She's good for a gun between Shep and the collectors.

And even taking all this into account I actually AGREED with you about her leadership. She isn't a leader, she is a technician. when Tali is a leader she isn't actually a military leader, she was leading a group of hotheads to find and save a fellow Quarian. If they were expecting full on combat they would have sent a squad leader. Which they did later on in the game!

And if we are going Gameplay over story, than its over. The gameplay chose to make Tali operate perfectly no matter what, during the game. Suicide mission or not. 

If the game wasn't just that...you know a game. There would always be a chance of Tali getting ill or the likes in combat. It woud be rare true but it would still be there. And she would get lowered stats from it. As it is BW doesn't want to punish players so they wouldn't do such a thing. Gameplay chose to make her operate perfectly because it's a game. 

The character deciding to make herself at risk of being sick to me isn't excused "because it's a game" it cheapens the character and cheapens the relationship. 

That said the more I argue this the more disgusted I grow with the character. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mars 2011 - 08:33 .

[Pacifien]

Ryzaki wrote...
Though yes Anders does try to jump in your pants. But he does this to both female and male Hawke. I'm not sure why male Hawke is the only one mentioned. 

It was brought up as a reason why people are reticent at a love interest being available for both genders. Try as you might to shield one's eyes from Teh Gay, something like the Anders flirtation could still occur and someone trying to avoid Teh Gay would be smacked in the face by it.

Not a problem for me, but I do know that there are people out there who seriously cannot handle it, and so they argue the homosexual option shouldn't exist just to spare their minds. Options then are a) it's gonna happen, deal with it, we will shield you with the mighty "do not click unless you want dick" heart icon, or c) remove the option altogether. Unfortunately, reaction is strong enough to make developers lean toward option c even though I'm of mind to go with a.

[Pacifien]

Nashiktal wrote...
Oh no its a completely flirtatious moment, especially because you HAVE to either accept or deny the relationship. The neutral middle choice leaves it too open, and my male hawke was chasing after Merril in that game.

You know, you just reminded me that I had a scene with Merrill that is exactly what you described with Anders, where my options were to go with the flirt icon and sleep with her or break it off and have her get angry with me. I never even flirted with her until that moment, so I took it as a serious glitch. And it made me feel like a ******, but I had to remain strong and tell her "you're not my romance on this playthrough!"

So yeah, the system isn't perfect.

[Ryzaki]

Pacifien wrote...
It was brought up as a reason why people are reticent at a love interest being available for both genders. Try as you might to shield one's eyes from Teh Gay, something like the Anders flirtation could still occur and someone trying to avoid Teh Gay would be smacked in the face by it.

Not a problem for me, but I do know that there are people out there who seriously cannot handle it, and so they argue the homosexual option shouldn't exist just to spare their minds. Options then are a) it's gonna happen, deal with it, we will shield you with the mighty "do not click unless you want dick" heart icon, or c) remove the option altogether. Unfortunately, reaction is strong enough to make developers lean toward option c even though I'm of mind to go with a.

I lol'd way harder at "Teh Gay" than I should've. 

Honestly though there was a nice broken heart icon that meant the character would never hit on you again. 

It was there to be clicked! 

And really I don't see what Hawke says to be all that mean. Anders is just melodramatic and a bit of an obsessive, clingy, jealous type. You want to nip that sort of thing in the bud. 

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Pacifien wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
You also haven't explained your examples in an earlier post, so they fail to demostrate anything to me as well.

You need to point those out so I know what you don't understand.

When you said this:

"Now there's Anders from the Dragon Age series who was clearly not
written as a homosexual character in Awakening, but can be romanced by a
male Hawke in Dragon Age 2. That romance worked for me about as well as
the romance with a female Hawke.

There was also Willow from the
Buffy series who came out as a lesbian after we'd already seen her in a
heterosexual relationship in that series. That worked."

You wanted proof that changing a character's sexuality worked. One example is Anders, from a game I assumed you played since you brought it up in the OP. I wouldn't have thought explanation was necessary. Note that I didn't say the romance was a great success on par with the ME series, as you made it clear you felt otherwise. I simply pointed out that it works equally well despite gender for me.

The other example is a character from a series who was shown in a heterosexual relationship only to be outed as a lesbian later on. You obviously haven't seen Buffy, which you could have mentioned if the example didn't work for you. Then all I can say is that you either need to a) watch the show or take my word for it that the lesbian relationship was a success with the fans.

I suppose I could mention Dumbledore in that the revelation of his sexuality adds layers to some of his comments about a character made during the Harry Potter series, but doesn't actually mean anything as far as romance is concerned. It is, at least, a revelation about a character many interpreted as straight.

Okay. Is there anymore evidence? I cannot only go by two.

[Nashiktal]

Ryzaki wrote...


Actually they didn't. Per usual Shep janitor did the militaries job. Not that it's anything new. Tali got the data but she'd have kicked the bucket if Shep hadn't come along. 

As for civilian lead researcher why would Miranda then bring up her "getting her entire squad killed on Haerstrom?" if she wasn't the leader?  

You really need to recognize the seperation of points. I addressed both of these. She was the team lead on Haerstrom, and as I have said she was the lead researcher, and thus decided what needed to be done. She told the military squad she needed the data in that building, everyone was slaughtered. She did the Macro, military did the micro. Its the same as Tim telling you to investigate the dead colonies. Tim told you your goal, Shep's job was to get it done.

As for handling herself in a fight that's my point. She can. She's good for a gun between Shep and the collectors.

Honestly if that is what you are using Tali for, i'm sure there are many more hired guns you could use that would be much more effective than Tali.

If the game wasn't just that...you know a game. There would always be a chance of Tali getting ill or the likes in combat. It woud be rare true but it would still be there. And she would get lowered stats from it. As it is BW doesn't want to punish players so they wouldn't do such a thing. Gameplay chose to make her operate perfectly because it's a game. 

The character deciding to make herself at risk of being sick to me isn't excused "because it's a game" it cheapens the character and cheapens the relationship. 

That said the more I argue this the more disgusted I grow with the character. 

Heh, if you are to get disgusted with Tali over something like this, I say there is a LOT more about the game that would absolutely make you vomit till you were nothing but a dried up husk.

[Lee337]

Pacifien wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Though yes Anders does try to jump in your pants. But he does this to both female and male Hawke. I'm not sure why male Hawke is the only one mentioned. 

It was brought up as a reason why people are reticent at a love interest being available for both genders. Try as you might to shield one's eyes from Teh Gay, something like the Anders flirtation could still occur and someone trying to avoid Teh Gay would be smacked in the face by it.

Not a problem for me, but I do know that there are people out there who seriously cannot handle it, and so they argue the homosexual option shouldn't exist just to spare their minds. Options then are a) it's gonna happen, deal with it, we will shield you with the mighty "do not click unless you want dick" heart icon, or c) remove the option altogether. Unfortunately, reaction is strong enough to make developers lean toward option c even though I'm of mind to go with a.

To me you choosing A is just as prejudice as a C is.
B would work for me so long as the characters aren't all acting like the fancy you ala Anders/Zevran.
Or C if removing it was an on/off switch.

[Pacifien]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
Okay. Is there anymore evidence? I cannot only go by two.

Chasing Amy.

Oh. No wait. No, that... that totally didn't work out in the end.

[Ryzaki]

Nashiktal wrote...
You really need to recognize the seperation of points. I addressed both of these. She was the team lead on Haerstrom, and as I have said she was the lead researcher, and thus decided what needed to be done. She told the military squad she needed the data in that building, everyone was slaughtered. She did the Macro, military did the micro. Its the same as Tim telling you to investigate the dead colonies. Tim told you your goal, Shep's job was to get it done.

And Shep did everything per usual. He just did it well when **** hit the fan. 

Regardless I concede your point. 

Honestly if that is what you are using Tali for, i'm sure there are many more hired guns you could use that would be much more effective than Tali.

Not ones that would be top notch mechanics and wouldn't carry a zero risk of being bribed by Cerberus. 

Heh, if you are to get disgusted with Tali over something like this, I say there is a LOT more about the game that would absolutely make you vomit till you were nothing but a dried up husk.

No it's more of the sad pathetic way she throws herself at Shepard that does it. I'm getting a little sick of the pandering now.Her whole species bothers me and her whole character irritates me the more and more I discuss her. 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Ryzaki wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...
Oh it happens. Its when you talk to Ander in his clinic, right after he tells either Isabella or another random person not to use his magic to cure sex diseases.

I can't remember which conversatin options you have to pick... but depending on what you choose. (No flirting icons used) Anders will hit on you, and you have three options. Accept his feelings, a three arrow choice, stop the romance there.

I chose stop the romance, and BAM he flips out on me. Claims im trying to control how he thinks.

I've seen enough comments on it to go from disbelief to benefit of the doubt that it occurs, but I myself never had it happen even though I have a playthrough with a male Hawke, a full friendship with Anders, and no flirtations from him.... Then again, maybe I interpreted something as benign that others took as flirtatious. Need youtube video!

Still, it doesn't happen with Fenris, so it's an oversight in the system, maybe? Then again, Fenris enters romance somewhat kicking and screaming that it'll mess with his broody mojo.

I'm so off topic now...

LOL at the bolded. 

Though yes Anders does try to jump in your pants. But he does this to both female and male Hawke. I'm not sure why male Hawke is the only one mentioned. 

That is why.

Now I have been somewhat on the fence here since I somewhat see the other side of the debate but I am going to cross over to the other side of the road. (The first one of you who takes that out of context will be hit on. )

To offer a personal example. When I was a teenager, within the thirteen to fifteen bracket if memory serves. Homosexuality was not my thing, in actuality I found it strange, if not gross to be blunt. Now fast forward a few years, where I have grown up and become a little open minded; I "developed" to use a gaming terminology and intriguing enough am close to being bisexual. Not quite there, since I have specific interests but enough an old friend of mine called me " a gay straight guy" for lulz. This was a while ago and as far as I am aware has not impacted my life or "ruined my character." If someone asks or it may be relevant to topic (like here) I will speak up, otherwise I hadn't a reason.

What is to prevent a similar occurrence in say Miranda? If prompted by Femshep, who initiates a subtle flirtatious remark Miri finds herself intrigued, curious even and asks. She takes the risk, so to speak and romance and cuddling ensues! This option is only available once at the beginning of the romance subplot and if not chosen she is your BBF (****y best friend. Tis more accurate)

Keep in mind for all relevant purposes the romance is identical to the male counterpart. We just replace Sheploo with Femshep and call it a day, although I doubt a few unique lines would not hurt anything. BioWare would have to record them anyway. Why not make them a tad different? Either way, the content is there only for those who want it and only when clicked by the player. Is this Shepard straight? Avoid the that option on the wheel.

Hooray for compromise!
---

On another note
@ Ryn

Your sig is a lie. Stereotypes indicate chicks dig bad boys, which would be renegades. If they dig paragons that would obviously be taking a risk, which that thread and Mass Effect is not about.

Now click this.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 24 mars 2011 - 08:50 .

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Rammy, you're an awesome Tali fan and everything, but Paci has you there.

Also, bi relationships are fine. As long as they don't change the existing sexuality of squaddies in Mass Effect, or make a character that doesn't suit bisexuality, bisexual, then I'm fine. Dragon Age 2 did the bi thing fine, apart from what I said earlier about it not really suiting Aveline or Anders much.

[Pacifien]

Lee337 wrote...
To me you choosing A is just as prejudice as a C is.

I'm probably thinking of all those playthroughs of Mass Effect 1 where I had to deal with the unwanted romances, but it comes across pretty much the same to me. Having to fend off Kaidan with my female Shepard would be the same as fending off Ash with my female Shepard. Awkward.

[Nashiktal]

Pacifien wrote...

It was brought up as a reason why people are reticent at a love interest being available for both genders. Try as you might to shield one's eyes from Teh Gay, something like the Anders flirtation could still occur and someone trying to avoid Teh Gay would be smacked in the face by it.

Not a problem for me, but I do know that there are people out there who seriously cannot handle it, and so they argue the homosexual option shouldn't exist just to spare their minds. Options then are a) it's gonna happen, deal with it, we will shield you with the mighty "do not click unless you want dick" heart icon, or c) remove the option altogether. Unfortunately, reaction is strong enough to make developers lean toward option c even though I'm of mind to go with a.

Oh I didn't have a problem with Anders flirting with me, or that he was bi. I had a problem with it negatively changing our relationship. He snaps, says that everyone is trying to control his thoughts, (Wha? I just don't want to date you man. I like you otherwise.) and then the conversation ends with a lump of rival points at my direction. I wasn't even sure where the moment came from. One minute he is moaning about his situation with his *friend* Mr. J, and the next I was forced into that situation.

You know, you just reminded me that I had a scene with Merrill that is exactly what you described with Anders, where my options were to go with the flirt icon and sleep with her or break it off and have her get angry with me. I never even flirted with her until that moment, so I took it as a serious glitch. And it made me feel like a ******, but I had to remain strong and tell her "you're not my romance on this playthrough!"

So yeah, the system isn't perfect.

It definately needs improvement. Don't get me wrong, it is an overall positive improvement over ME's system. I havn't experienced Jack;s full story yet for example. (Can't be friends with her, If you try just being friends all you get is a ***** you.*)