1677 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacifien]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
What would be the point? It's the same thing.

Are you saying there isn't a point to having a character open for romance to either gender simply because it's the same thing regardless?

[matteatspuppies]

Pacifien wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Why wait when we can have BIG BEN SNIPER GUY FOR MALE LOVE INTEREST IN ME3!

I mean, other than you're not keen on those type of relationships.

It would be awesome, though.

Love to see him in there but I resent the idea that the only English guy is gay! What are you sayingh about us?

That you're hot like Big Ben Sniper Guy?

@lee watch yugioh the abridged series

am i the only one who finds "big ben to be gay" funny or is my lack of sleep quickly draining my maturity level?

anyway how bout mordin as a bi LI? he already made a pass at my male shepard, the only thing in the way is that im human and hes not really into that but garrus isnt either and we see how that went.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Pacifien wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
What would be the point? It's the same thing.

Are you saying there isn't a point to having a character open for romance to either gender simply because it's the same thing regardless?

Pretty much. I like UNIQUE romances, not monotone ones.

[Pacifien]

I'm not sure taking a pre-emptive strike against Shepard making a pass at him counts as making a pass at Shepard. In any case, Mordin's old. Lovin' with Shepard would kill him.

[Pacifien]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Are you saying there isn't a point to having a character open for romance to either gender simply because it's the same thing regardless?

Pretty much. I like UNIQUE romances, not monotone ones.

So you don't approve of bisexual romances?

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Pacifien wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Are you saying there isn't a point to having a character open for romance to either gender simply because it's the same thing regardless?

Pretty much. I like UNIQUE romances, not monotone ones.

So you don't approve of bisexual romances?

I do approve, but I didn't say that I would go through with them.

[Lee337]

rynluna wrote...

There are lots of things in the game that people have to deal with and might not be comfy with but there is no button to switch them off.  I hated how TIM was glorified in ME2 and Shepard became his pet.  It would have been nice to have a choice there but there wasn't.  So what did I do?  I dealt with it.  Same could be said for a hetero male gamer.  There are plenty of instances in the game that I don't like my lesbian FemShep encountering but I deal with it.  Why don't you guys wear our shoes for once since we have to deal with these things all the time?

Like I said, you're in the minority and to me it seems more unfair to force the majority into the minoritys shoes than the minoirty into the majorities (if that makes sense). For every gay/bi gamer theres going to be someone who really dislikes it. I'm all for working out a solution for both parties however. The switch off button idea was just a simple idea for those who take offense to it. I'm sure there are better solutions, but people seem more focused on the injustice of it all than trying to think of ways to deal with it. 

It's all well and good pointing out that you have to deal with not liking TIM etc, these are things we all have different opinions on, and deal with, but they aren't the point.

[Pacifien]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
I do approve, but I didn't say that I would go through with them.

So if you don't intend on going through with them, what's the problem in having a pre-existing love interest as a same sex romance option in ME3?

[matteatspuppies]

Pacifien wrote...

I'm not sure taking a pre-emptive strike against Shepard making a pass at him counts as making a pass at Shepard. In any case, Mordin's old. Lovin' with Shepard would kill him.

i dont know, the "if i were into humans id be into you" felt like he was interested at least a little.

oh i know, isnt that hot?

[GuardianAngel470]

Pacifien wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Are you saying there isn't a point to having a character open for romance to either gender simply because it's the same thing regardless?

Pretty much. I like UNIQUE romances, not monotone ones.

So you don't approve of bisexual romances?

Pacifien, what I get from the OP isn't that he is against BI romances. What I get is that he is against CONVERTING a plotonic and hetero relationship, like MShepard and Garrus, into a Bi relationship.

I'm actually loathe to base my understanding of a point on how the thread has progressed. I can think of one striking example where a discussion went WAY the wrong way and no one stepped in to get it back on track.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Also, a reason why I think it will cheapen and make the romances less unique. It makes Manshep and Femshep EXACTLY THE SAME. What's great about ME is that you have incentives to play as either gender (as somebody has stated), and that's the romances (my opinion)

What do I mean by this? Well, look who is available for Manshep exclusively:

Tali, Miranda, Jack, and Ashley.

Who is available for Femshep?

Jacob, Thane, Kaidan, Garrus.

And Liara is for both.

I play as Manshep for Tali and Liara.

I play as Femshep for Garrus and Thane.

Those are the only reasons why I ever pick between genders.

If they were all bi, it basically destroys the purpose of having two genders to play as. I might as well just play as Manshep (since he's the poster Shepard) and not even bother playing as Femshep, because I can get the same thing with Manshep. There is no longer an incentive, and it loses it's uniqueness.

That's more or less what I mean.

I don't agree with you on this, I'd still prefer to play as FemShep for the male romances (as long it's not Jacob - the only thing I liked there was the break up!). It only loses it's uniqueness from your perspective if you play out a s/s relationship as well as the fem/male one. If you want it to be unique play one or the other.

What would be the point? It's the same thing.

- Preference of the voice actor
- Different content in other aspects
- The ability to have a bisexual or homosexual Shepard
- They like those characters

And I reiterate once more. They are not required to be identical. In actuality, it is impossible they would be when you consider Miranda has not yet displayed an interest in Femshep. All it would require is Hale to record different lines. Admittedly, this does bode a conundrum from a financial aspect I had not previously considered. Since there has been no bisexual romance. This would have to designed from scratch and evidently have less overall depth and/or content in comparison to the heterosexual variety.

I believe those interest would be willing to accept that since this is added content to begin with. The question going forward is would BioWare being willing to shed a few extra dollars for the cut scenes?

[Lee337]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Are you saying there isn't a point to having a character open for romance to either gender simply because it's the same thing regardless?

Pretty much. I like UNIQUE romances, not monotone ones.

So you don't approve of bisexual romances?

I do approve, but I didn't say that I would go through with them.

Then when you asked me what the point was, it is that I don't want to go through with it either, I'd much rather see the Femshep/random guy relationship than Male/male, and why should I care if male/male is the same if I don't play it? That's like not drinking apple juice because it tastes the same as an apple.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Pacifien wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
I do approve, but I didn't say that I would go through with them.

So if you don't intend on going through with them, what's the problem in having a pre-existing love interest as a same sex romance option in ME3?

Read OP. Also, that's just some seriously lame retconning. And NO, (not meant at you Pacifien), I AM NOT GOING TO ARGUE ABOUT TALI.


EDIT: Being "retconned", that is.

Modifié par Ramirez Wolfen, 24 mars 2011 - 09:37 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

- Preference of the voice actor
- Different content in other aspects
- The ability to have a bisexual or homosexual Shepard
- They like those characters

And I reiterate once more. They are not required to be identical. In actuality, it is impossible they would be when you consider Miranda has not yet displayed an interest in Femshep. All it would require is Hale to record different lines. Admittedly, this does bode a conundrum from a financial aspect I had not previously considered. Since there has been no bisexual romance. This would have to designed from scratch and evidently have less overall depth and/or content in comparison to the heterosexual variety.

I believe those interest would be willing to accept that since this is added content to begin with. The question going forward is would BioWare being willing to shed a few extra dollars for the cut scenes?

What different content? I don't see things being different. Practically ALL the lines are the same already.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

rynluna wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Like I said, you're in the minority and to me it seems more unfair to force the majority into the minoritys shoes than the minoirty into the majorities (if that makes sense).

So because the straight crowd is the majority they don't deserve to feel uncomfortable because it would be so unfair to break the mold? 

Sorry to say, that's just how it goes.

[Pacifien]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
Pacifien, what I get from the OP isn't that he is against BI romances. What I get is that he is against CONVERTING a plotonic and hetero relationship, like MShepard and Garrus, into a Bi relationship.

If that's his point, he needs to step back and rewrite the whole thing. How the original post reads is someone believes that because a relationship started as heterosexual in ME1 or ME2, that romance option should be unavailable for a homosexual romance in ME3.

As for platonic relationships, that's another issue entirely. If someone has a bromance going between their male Shepard and Garrus and wants to keep it that way, it would be a shame if their only option was suddenly romance going into ME3. As it is, developing friendships are a foreign in the game if a character has been deemed a love interest. Sure, I can get to know Grunt all I want no matter my gender because love isn't going to get in the way, but you try that with a male Shepard and Jack, you're told to **** off. Which has absolutely nothing to do with bisexuality.

As it is, I haven't seen a good reason why adding the option is a detriment aside from 1) being uncomfortable with homosexual relationships to start with and 2) the time and resources needed to develop the characters. In which case, I don't see why it matters if the love interest was pre-existing or not because both of those reasons are going to remain regardless.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

rynluna wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Read OP. Also, that's just some seriously lame retconning. And NO, (not meant at you Pacifien), I AM NOT GOING TO ARGUE ABOUT TALI.


EDIT: Being "retconned", that is.

But it has A LOT to do with Tali.  You still can't get it through your head that she was retconned to be romanceable in ME2.  You get to enjoy your romance and yet you hate the idea of a pre-existing character being retconned as bisexual.  All night you have argued that it is lame when in fact you are basically calling your beloved Tali romance as lame.

Look when it comes to Tali and Garrus, I don't consider that retconning. But Like i said, I'm not arguing this. (it's almost six in the morning)

[GuardianAngel470]

rynluna wrote...

There are lots of things in the game that people have to deal with and might not be comfy with but there is no button to switch them off.  I hated how TIM was glorified in ME2 and Shepard became his pet.  It would have been nice to have a choice there but there wasn't.  So what did I do?  I dealt with it.  Same could be said for a hetero male gamer.  There are plenty of instances in the game that I don't like my lesbian FemShep encountering but I deal with it.  Why don't you guys wear our shoes for once since we have to deal with these things all the time?

Yeah, you know what I do in those circumstances? Mash the X (or A) button till it goes away. The first line from Liara is one of those times.

However, just as happened with Liara based on that line and some of her others Pre-LotSB, it schews the player's perception of the character. Be honest, after hearing that the first time, didn't you start thinking about Liara differently? I mean, what the heck happened to her? She is totally not the girl I fell in love with in the first game.

That's why Liara fans were initially the most bitter after the game's release: Their favorite character had been changed into something they didn't even recognize anymore. If they were accepting, as many were, they stuck by her anyway but had to deal with that baggage, especially after the Tali fans got their fan service.

A change like that creates a LOT of drama is what I'm getting at.  If all of a sudden Garrus, my wingman, the guy I routinely walk into hell with, suddenly told me he was in love with me, it would drastically change how I perceive the character. It would call into question everything I'd done with him up to that point, everything he'd said. My favorite bro-style character would no longer exist, not as he did before. His image would forever be changed.

I'd still take him everyhwere cuz he's damn good in a fight but the relationship would never be the same.

To take the Homophobe vibe out of the equation, lets use a hetero example. Say you are a woman in her late twenties who has always been a tom boy and you grew up with guy friends. One of those friends has been with you forever and your relationship is strictly platonic. You do everything together, video games, sports, all sorts of stuff.

Now lets say that one day that guy friend, lets call him Jim-Bob Billy-Joe, suddenly and out of the blue tells you he loves you. Now everything you have ever done with him has a new perspective and you can never look at your friend the same way. You may still do stuff with him, but now you have to be cautious that you aren't giving him the wrong signals and you distance yourself somewhat from him.

That is how it would be for most players. Too much has happened up to this point; too much has been done. There is too much history between all the possible BI characters for it to go over well. Liara worked because that was the first game and shortly after you recruited her so there hadn't been a lot of time to build a platonic relationship that a femshep would have prefered. It was easier to turn her down and not have to worry about the above situation occuring.

[Lee337]

rynluna wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Like I said, you're in the minority and to me it seems more unfair to force the majority into the minoritys shoes than the minoirty into the majorities (if that makes sense).

So because the straight crowd is the majority they don't deserve to feel uncomfortable because it would be so unfair to break the mold? 

If a large group of of your friends wanted to go to the fair, but one out of all of them just wanted to stay home, which is fairer?

But I'm not arguing against S/S relationships. Like I said before, I'm very uncomforatble with it but I don't see why my feelings on it should stop anyone else getting something they like. Like in DA:O, I thought that having one bi character from each sex was fine, and I'm quite happy to have to deal with Zevran.
What I am against is having every male character being bi, and then especially if they all  hit on me or I accidently hit on them when I was just trying to be nice to them.
Pacifen suggested the DA2 heart style diagloue to make it obvious the option is a love option, (even though Anders still made a pass at me in DA2 despite avoiding the hearts) I suggested a toggle switch for those who didn't like s/s (which I thought was better than making the gay croud have to turn it on).
None of it matters if it's just one character.

[Pacifien]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
Read OP. Also, that's just some seriously lame retconning. And NO, (not meant at you Pacifien), I AM NOT GOING TO ARGUE ABOUT TALI.


EDIT: Being "retconned", that is.

I did read the OP. I responded to it and you ignored it. And as much as you want to ignore the argument about Tali, it's seen by many people as being very much in the same vein of retcon as you claim the same sex romance option would be. Oddly enough, "retcon" isn't even one of your reasons in the OP.

And how is it a retcon if you don't intend to experience them? It doesn't exist in your game. When you pick a path to follow in your game, it alters how your game develops in comparison to others. If you never flirt with Kaidan, then he never wants to jump into your pants and you can go the whole series without ever discussing anything about his sexuality. It can be that simple.

Modifié par Pacifien, 24 mars 2011 - 09:49 .

[matteatspuppies]

rynluna wrote...

matteatspuppies wrote...
anyway how bout mordin as a bi LI? he already made a pass at my male shepard, the only thing in the way is that im human and hes not really into that but garrus isnt either and we see how that went.

It would be weird since Salarians don't have much of a sex drive but it could be made into a non sexual romance.  You are right about Garrus and Tali.  They are aliens that could possibly kill you from sexual contact but were retconned anyway to be open to loving with Shepard. 

If all this silliness can happen what's wrong with retconning any of the established human chars into a s/s relationship?  Nothing.  It makes way more sense than the dextro amino acids and I'll take some amino boosters and it will be alright, mumbo jumbo.

really, i dont see why more relationships cant be more intellectual instead of you have to get into their pants for it to count. the "it has to be sexual for it to be a romance" thing was off putting in some cases. EDIT: thats a different topic though 

then again i dont have much of a leg to stand on cause i satisfy my blue jungle fever whenever i can. asari, what can you do?

Modifié par matteatspuppies, 24 mars 2011 - 09:51 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Pacifien wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
Read OP. Also, that's just some seriously lame retconning. And NO, (not meant at you Pacifien), I AM NOT GOING TO ARGUE ABOUT TALI.


EDIT: Being "retconned", that is.

I did read the OP. I responded to it and you ignored it. And as much as you want to ignore the argument about Tali, it's seen by many people as being very much in the same vein of retcon as you claim the same sex romance option would be. Oddly enough, "retcon" isn't even one of your reasons in the OP.

And how is it a retcon if you don't intend to experience them? It doesn't exist in your game. When you pick a path to follow in your game, it alters how your game develops in comparison to others. If you never flirt with Kaidan, then he never wants to jump into your pants and you can go the whole series without ever discussing anything about his sexuality. It can be that simple.

Hey, maybe that could be the  why reason I said ALSO.<_<

And more than likely I AM going to experience it, regardless of whether I like it or not. If he's going to be bi, Bioware will more than likely make it where Kaidan  (or whoever, depending on your Shepard's gender) is the one to bring it up.

Modifié par Ramirez Wolfen, 24 mars 2011 - 09:57 .